Sonic Lost World Announced

[Narukami07]

Reported from your's truly. <3

[Diogenes]

Based on the samples. We now have a Sonic game in which a character has attempted to commit Genocide and another who wants to kill himself.

Yes, we have Eggman, doing the same thing he's been doing from the start, and (unless I'm wrong on this, but I'd be surprised) an overdramatic emo kid, being an overdramatic emo kid.

Which, yeah, it's written a lot edgier than the series' usual ultrasafe writing, but it's also a far cry from having someone executing scores of people and dumping them in a mass grave, and someone actually slitting their wrists/eating a bullet/sticking their head in an oven.

[Kuzu]

Eggman's definitely done some stuff that's borderline genocide. It's really nothing that out there.

Well that's implied genocide, this is just outright saying it. That said, I understand how aggressive the dialogue is, but I don't really think its that big of a deal.

[DarkRula]

Well, I'm obviously going to steer clear of the dialogue until we have it fully n context, but I can understand a lot of what has been said over it. As for being more about platforming, and having that confirmed, as well as seeing all those videos coming out of E3 and SDCC, I'm really wanting a WiiU right about now.

I guess there are those going to be sceptical about it from other experiences with... other... games... But from what I've seen so far [and remember we don't have much on the story yet] this one seems to be a balance of light heartedness and dark.

 

Still awaiting more on it to make full judgement though.

[Octarine]

There was that one time Shadow blew up the Black Comet and probably murdered an entire species, but that's probably not the best example.

 

(does it count as genocide if you're a member of the species you're genociding, and you don't kill yourself? And I guess it'd technically be xenocide, anyway)

[Nepenthe]

So, I suppose you don't like this game's narrative?

 

There's not enough narrative given to make any real judgement call on it. However, I'm not so optimistic that the narrative will be a surefire winner or a return to form of sorts.

 

I think it's more to do with the fact that the dialogue places some implications on the game.

 

Based on the samples. We now have a Sonic game in which a character has attempted to commit Genocide and another who wants to kill himself.

 

This isn't like previous titles where it's "I'm gonna take over this city/the world, now to destroy some buildings and cause panic and chaos. Genocide means to actively go out and kill a specific type of person. We have a Sonic character who is doing that, or seriously considering it to the point in which another has had to point it out.

 

And nobody sees a problem with it?

 

It's not so much a case of 'whoa I never expected this from a Sonic game' so much as it's a case of 'why is this even in a Sonic game?'

 

We have had characters actually commit genocide (Chaos), ones who were really intent on doing so (Shadow/Gerald/Black Doom/Mephiles/Dark Gaia/whomever else), and characters who wanted to commit suicide before as well (Shadow/Gawain). Actions speak a lot louder than words, or at least they're supposed to. We've seen these kinds of things in various levels of visceral detail because Sonic games aren't- or at least have the ability to go above- politically correct storytelling. But now the characters aren't actually supposed to say "death" or "genocide" now? Forgive me if I assert people are completely missing the point.

 

It's not really that paltry when you think about it, even before the narrative was watered down, when have Sonic games had such overt references to death? Only Sa2 and Shadow spring to mind.

 

When persons, armies, and entire civilizations were actually dying or in real danger of dying?

[Badnik Mechanic]

We have had characters actually commit genocide (Chaos), ones who were really intent on doing so (Shadow/Gerald/Black Doom/Mephiles/Dark Gaia/whomever else), and characters who wanted to commit suicide before as well (Shadow/Gawain). Actions speak a lot louder than words, or at least they're supposed to. We've seen these kinds of things in various levels of visceral detail because Sonic games aren't- or at least have the ability to go above- politically correct storytelling. But now the characters aren't actually supposed to say "death" or "genocide" now? Forgive me if I assert people are completely missing the point

 

The problem I've got with that argument is that the actions commited by the majority of those were not to outrightly exterminate. The monsters of the week, other than being 'I'm the big scary final boss monster' do they actually have any sense of identity or character too them, or even something of a three dimensional motivation other than "Oh he's gonna destroy us all unless you stop him?"

 

The consensus so far seems to be that this line is directed at Eggman, who for all the silliness, 'thinks' and normally has a plan and a goal, which isn't 'kill something.' 

 

This is my problem with this particular useage of the word 'genocide.'

 

It's not like in Sonic Unleashed where it's "I'm after this power, oh it caused the earth to fracture and people probably died." It's not even the same as Sonic 06 which as a cluster fuck of a plot that is "I'm looking for the flames of disaster... oh crap it's destroyed the world..."

 

The implication from "One second you’re contemplating genocide" is that the original plan was just to outrightly kill everybody/specific group. It wasn't a case of 'I want to conquer the world by launching a missile barrage at cities or invading station sqaure or even threattening to blow up something.'

 

It's that the plan from that seems to be that it's genocide with no obvious goal.

 

Though why do I get the feeling that the plan is going to be something like 'I'm gonna unleash the deadly six to kill people in order to take over the world?'

[Octarine]

Assuming the line's coming from a hero and is directed at a villain, it's almost certainly hyperbole. One second you're [evil thing], the next you're [good/silly thing]. Somebody just reached for a really extreme example.

 

...and even if it is said by a villain, it's probably a quick character-establishing dialogue gag, not a reference to any actual event in the plot.

[Nepenthe]

The problem I've got with that argument is that the actions commited by the majority of those were not to outrightly exterminate. The monsters of the week, other than being 'I'm the big scary final boss monster' do they actually have any sense of identity or character too them, or even something of a three dimensional motivation other than "Oh he's gonna destroy us all unless you stop him?"

 

The consensus so far seems to be that this line is directed at Eggman, who for all the silliness, 'thinks' and normally has a plan and a goal, which isn't 'kill something.' 

 

This is my problem with this particular useage of the word 'genocide.'

 

It's not like in Sonic Unleashed where it's "I'm after this power, oh it caused the earth to fracture and people probably died." It's not even the same as Sonic 06 which as a cluster fuck of a plot that is "I'm looking for the flames of disaster... oh crap it's destroyed the world..."

 

The implication from "One second you’re contemplating genocide" is that the original plan was just to outrightly kill everybody/specific group. It wasn't a case of 'I want to conquer the world by launching a missile barrage at cities or invading station sqaure or even threattening to blow up something.'

 

It's that the plan from that seems to be that it's genocide with no obvious goal.

 

Though why do I get the feeling that the plan is going to be something like 'I'm gonna unleash the deadly six to kill people in order to take over the world?'

 

Chaos' intention was to exterminate the echidnas due to the fact that they'd killed his friends and in general had become a power-hungry menace, which inevitably destroyed innocent lives. Gerald's intention was to destroy humanity due to the fact that he felt he'd been betrayed despite the noble intentions in his scientific progress, a threat he passed on to Shadow through memory tampering who in turn was acting in intention in order to fulfill a supposed promise. Mephiles wanted to kill people because he's an evil, sadistic fuck. Black Doom wanted to kill people to eat them.

 

The only one who's truly without character or motivation is Dark Gaia, who I presume to be acting on animal instincts as a bringer of the Apocalypse.

 

But then, why do these details matter so much? All of these scenarios have awful implications for the characters involved if we are now suddenly applying real world standards to them- which raises the question of why are we applying serious real-world standards to a potentially throwaway statement an unknown character made in one game no one's played, and subsequently acting like this is a problem, and not looking across the board at the actual deaths of people in various circumstances and simply concluding the series is already pretty fucked up if we're going to be that critical about the concept of death? 

[Diogenes]

I'd stake my reputation (such that it is) that this contemplated genocide is not fundamentally different from things Eggman's done in the past.

I can't guarantee it, of course, but I think it's infinitely more likely than genocide for genocide's sake.

[Scar]

I don't get the problem here still...

We don't even know the context yet. And Genocide, whilst not explicitly mentioned, has happened, or has at least been attempted.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Holy shit people are looking way too far into this

[Badnik Mechanic]

Holy shit people are looking way too far into this

 

I don't think we are.

 

In fact the people who aren't too crazy on it so far have actually put up reasonable complaints about it if you ask me. Not sure how this is looking too deep into it or any of the other put downs that myself and everybody else who dislikes it have had thrown their way in the last 24 hours.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The fact that we're discussing the simply the word "Genocide" as if it's a sudden shock or something goes to show how much of a knee jerk reaction people have to just about anything with dark connotations.

 

Meanwhile, other cartoons in the past and the present get away with even heavier stuff than that....

[StrgAltEntf]

Hey!

I don't want to interrupt your discussion here, but I have a small question. 

 

On this IGN gameplay @ 01:35 on the top right corner there is some kind of golden object.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7nweiUGh-g

 

What is this?

[Spееdy]

This is called a Golden Cannon. I guess, it may have a level shortcut or lead to hidden places. So it's like a second pathway to the goal capsule I think.

[Indigo Rush]

The fact that we're discussing the simply the word "Genocide" as if it's a sudden shock or something goes to show how much of a knee jerk reaction people have to just about anything with dark connotations.

 

Meanwhile, other cartoons in the past and the present get away with even heavier stuff than that....

 

Now imagine if Genocide City Zone never had its name changed and was never scrapped from Sonic 2's development.

[StrgAltEntf]

This is called a Golden Cannon. I guess, it may have a level shortcut or lead to hidden places. So it's like a second pathway to the goal capsule I think.

Ah.. Thank You! Now I recognize it.

Yea, I know that there are Golden Cannons in this game... I was just blind.   

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Now imagine if Genocide City Zone never had its name changed and was never scrapped from Sonic 2's development.

Would feel out of place as there isn't any genocide going on there...

 

Funny thing about that name change is that they didn't know what it meant before scrapping the name as they simply thought it sounded cool at the time from what I've heard.

[Willsy]

It all make sense now!

 

The reason why Sonic's family hasn't appeared is because Eggman killed them all.........but Sonic. So that's why the genocide line is there, Sonic is obviously referring to the murder of his family.......

 

 

Now that is looking too far into it.

[Victoes]

haha what

What the hell is this game even going to be.

It has identity issues lol

[Autosaver]

The fact that we're discussing the simply the word "Genocide" as if it's a sudden shock or something goes to show how much of a knee jerk reaction people have to just about anything with dark connotations.

 

Meanwhile, other cartoons in the past and the present get away with even heavier stuff than that....

 

And this is why we can't have nice things. The present is a lot more family friendly than what was available 10 years ago. Can't upset those soccer moms.

[Straw Hat]

And this is why we can't have nice things. The present is a lot more family friendly than what was available 10 years ago. Can't upset those soccer moms.

Well... Fuck em'!!! They aren't watching this shit, we are!

[WarioBone]

Well... Fuck em'!!! They aren't watching this shit, we are!

 

BEHOLD, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

 

IGNORANCE

 

Do you realize what Sonic's demographic is?

 

Here's a hint:  not us.

[Yugi Muto]

BEHOLD, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

 

IGNORANCE

 

Do you realize what Sonic's demographic is?

 

Here's a hint:  not us.

What do you mean? When I do my sets and reps at the gym everyone's talking about Sanic.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Yugi Muto