The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[JezMM]

Zero Punctuation reviews Skyward Sword:

http://www.escapistm...a-Skyward-Sword

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Adult timeline: Link is sent back in time. Ganon is sealed by the sages, but manages to free himself less than a lifetime later and takes over the Triforce of Power before trying to take over Hyrule again. Because Link isn't there anymore (explanation in the child timeline), nobody is able to stop Ganondorf, so the Goddesses flood Hyrule. Wind Waker later happens.

Child timeline: Link is back from the future, at a point right before he meets Zelda. He tells her what Ganondorf will do, and she believes him. He's then decided to be executed by the Ancient Sages, but he has the Triforce of Power (Link, who did do all the OoT adventure, has the Triforce of Courage, but he went back in time at a point when he's not supposed to have it. But he has it. So the Triforce chooses its other hosts automatically) and uses it to kill one of the sages. He's then sealed in the Twilight Realm. Meanwhile, Link wants to find Navi, and he searches in the Lost Woods for that, eventually ending up in Termina and saving the alternate world. Onve he got out of Termina, one can assume he lost his way in the forest and became a Stalfos, aka the Hero's Soul (or something) who teaches Link moves in Twilight Princess. Twilight Princess then happens.

[Patticus]

Because an image is easier to read than text, here's Kotaku's version of the timeline recently revealed in the official Zelda encyclopaedia:

Looks fair enough really.

[Saint Nathan]

nintendo

seriously

you didn't even have a timeline did you, you just threw shit together based off fan timelines and did some other weird bullshit

this is like someone from ancient egypt or some shit coming to the future and going "yeah you know all this shit that points to 1+1=2 that we left everywhere? that's all fake 1+1 actually = 8."

it makes no goddamned sense, and we've been doing it better without you so why would you bother

[Patticus]

Nintendo has had that timeline for ages now. Why would you assume they've just made it up?

[Saint Nathan]

other than the bits where there was a third timeline they never mentioned, and it makes no sense at all due to gannondorf having WON so then how would ALttP even have happened, and everything following by extension?

Well for one, there's Minish Cap coming before OoT, even though OoT has always been said to have been the first game until Skyward. There's also the point where, Four Swords Adventures was where Ganon got his trident, yet it's in a completely separate timeline than every other game he uses it in.

The really main bit though is that there's a separate timeline where apparently Link not only failed, but apparently after his failure the seven sages sealed Ganon anyways. You know, despite not being awakened as sages, and very heavily hinted at being dead until they were awoken, and even then they're spirits. Also, the part where the very second Zelda revealed herself, Gannondorf was able to capture her. Kinda makes it hard to have all seven sages do the sealing bit, if they're all dead or captured.

If they'd taken out the third timeline, and placed it after Four Swords Adventures, that would have made a lot more sense than it does currently. Even the sages part would fit decently (even though they're called maidens, there's still seven and they do the same job.)

I honestly flat out refuse to believe that this was their timeline all along, because it's such a logical mess. Nintendo dosen't give legitimate effort into things and have them come out this shitty. They either didn't have a timeline ever, or they had one that was horribly barebones that they quickly slapped the games onto.

[Noir]

So maybe things happened between the games.

People are taking this way to seriously. This is a timeline of the games, not the entire fiction. Of course there would be huge chunks of time missing.

[-Robin-]

The backstory in Link to the Past mentions that when Ganondorf secured the power in the "Golden Land," he and that land became twisted and dark, transforming into Ganon and the Dark World respectively, right? Maybe the moment where Ganondorf secures this power is what's being alluded to when the timeline says that Ganondorf wins. It doesn't involve the sages, it just split the realm into two pieces and stayed that way for eons. That's one way to justify the beginning of the third timeline, at least.

As to how that third timeline could even get started, that's more complicated :/

[HeroMystic]

Zero Punctuation reviews Skyward Sword:

http://www.escapistm...a-Skyward-Sword

Edited December 22, 2011 by Marco

[Saint Nathan]

The backstory in Link to the Past mentions that when Ganondorf secured the power in the "Golden Land," he and that land became twisted and dark, transforming into Ganon and the Dark World respectively, right? Maybe the moment where Ganondorf secures this power is what's being alluded to when the timeline says that Ganondorf wins. It doesn't involve the sages, it just split the realm into two pieces and stayed that way for eons. That's one way to justify the beginning of the third timeline, at least.

Except it DOES involve the sages. They were the ones who sealed Ganon and The Dark World.

Not to mention, ALttP's backstory says that everyone was fighting over the power because a portal suddenly appeared. This is impossible from OoT's story, where Link was the only one who could open the portal, and the second he did Gannondorf followed him in and took the Triforce of Power. There was no fight to be had, because not only was The Triforce split into Link, Zelda, and Gannondorf, but Gannondorf immediately conquered Hyrule with it.

It dosen't fit. At all. ALttP cannot come directly after OoT.

[lounge]

I don't like the idea of Link losing against Ganon. That doesn't makes sense. That's more of a what if scenario which is just stupid. You can do what if's for all the games. And I really wish Soul Calibur 2 was included because I also don't like the idea of Link dying in the forest after leaving Termina. In Hyrule Historia it says his whereabouts are unknown after leaving Termina. Link actually had a backstory in SC2 that fits perfectly after Majora's Mask. Link returning to Hyrule and defeating a wizard, then using the ocarina of time to travel to the world of Soul Calibur to defeat the evil soul edge that was controlling the wizard in Hyrule. I hope there's official word from Aunoma that talks about this recent timeline.

[Koopalmier]

People are complaining about the "Link fails" timeline.

Nintendo didn't just make this up.

In ALttP's backstory, Link didn't beat Ganondorf, who then got all pieces of the Triforce before being sealed as Ganon.

This doesn't happen in OoT. Either Link comes back from the future and stops the events from happening, or he stops Ganondorf after he's taken over Hyrule - but he's not sealed with the Triforce.

This is then cemented in WW, where the world was flooded after Ganondorf broke free, meaning ALttP isn't in the Adult timeline (and it's definitely not in the Child one).

In the Link Fails timeline, Link died during the final battle. We haven't seen this in the game, but it did happen in ALttP's backstory. It happened, we just weren't shown it because OoT only shows you two outcomes, not the third one (likely because killing Link before the ending couldn't allow to show the two other timeline splits). The third one wasn't shown, but it was seen from another viewpoint in ALttP's backstory.

As for how did Ganon get the two last Triforce pieces in the Link Fails timeline ? He gets the Triforce of Courage from killing Link, and likely does the same for Zelda. They're all in the same location during the final battle, remember. It all works together. There are three outcomes: Link dies during the final battle ; Link (with knowledge from the future) tells the King what Ganondorf will do before he can do it ; Ganondorf breaks free in the future Hyrule and nobody's there to stop it. But we've only witnessed two of them.

I think Nintendo thought about this third timeline during WW, if not at the start of it.

If Link and Zelda are the ones who forged the Master Sword, does that mean they're two of the "original" sages (the Ancient Sages) ? Considering Kaepora Gaebora is the reincarnation of an Ancient Sage, does that mean Gaepora is an Ancient Sage too ? But Rauru is an Ancient Sage too, right ? So does that mean he's Gapora under another name, and his spirit takes the form of Kaepora Gaebora outside the Temple of Light ?

So, that'd mean three of the Ancient Sages are confirmed to be: Link, Zelda and Gaepora. Who are the others ?

Yeah, could anyone tell me if this is right, too, please ?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Koopalmier

[Solly]

People are complaining about the "Link fails" timeline.

Nintendo didn't just make this up.

[Koopalmier]

The Hero Fails timeline can't coexist with these though, which means this ISN'T a third split in the timeline but instead an alternate scenario. That is a very big difference.

And that's a load of shit.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Koopalmier

[Saint Nathan]

In the Link Fails timeline, Link died during the final battle.

[Solly]

The book itself says it's not a third split. It's generated after an alternate version of OoT where Link dies during the final battle.

Also, Miyamoto got that wrong (ALttP was specifically made and said to be before Zelda 1), and doesn't care much about the story anyway, so I'll disregard that quote. I think they made that "third timeline" thing during WW though, and this is from 98.

Edited December 23, 2011 by The Soldier

[Koopalmier]

But even if you try and disregard what Miyamoto said, you still can't deny that they're making this up as they go. When they wrote Ocarina of Time as the first game in the timeline, there's NO WAY they intended the previous games to take place in an alternate world where Link loses the final battle.

[Solly]

Never said that. I said I THINK they thought of the third timeline while making WW.

Also, was Ganon really in the Sacred Realm while being sealed ? Is that from the Japanese version ?

[Marcello]

So, it's real, I guess:

Hyrule Historia - further Legend of Zelda timeline details

Dec 22, 2011 by RawmeatCowboy

Ancient Tales: Skyward Sword → The Minish Cap → Four Swords → Ocarina of Time

Classic Tales: A Link to the Past → Oracles → Link’s Awakening → The Legend of Zelda → The Adventure of Link

Child Tales: Majora’s Mask → Twilight Princess → Four Swords Adventures

Adult Tales: The Wind Waker → Phantom Hourglass → Spirit Tracks

Classic timeline further explained...

Branch 1: Link is defeated by Ganon in OoT.

Branch 2: Link comes back from the future in OoT and tells Zelda what’s going to happen, she sends him away.

Branch 3: There is no longer a hero in the future of OoT since Link was sent back.

After Link dies in Ocarina of Time, Ganon obtains the entire Triforce. The Seven Sages seal away Ganon and the whole Triforce as a last resort, but villains with their eyes on the Triforce make for the Sacred Realm, which eventually turns into the Dark World and is filled with evil power. The Seven Sages then try to seal away the Sacred Realm itself, but end up fighting with monsters. This is the Imprisoning War of A Link to the Past.

http://gonintendo.co...story&id=168949

3rd timeline comes from Link getting killed by Ganon. :-/

Edited December 23, 2011 by Christmas MaRCELLOF

[Koopalmier]

So, this is the ALttP backstory...

Ganondorf enters the Sacred Realm after Link opened it and touches the Triforce. Here's the part that is in OoT but isn't in ALttP (the legend likely changed over the time): Ganondorf doesn't just get the Triforce and becomes Ganon, he takes over Hyrule and kills Link and Zelda to obtain the whole Triforce, and is eventually Ganon. The Sealing War then happens: all the knights, people and Sages of Hyrule fight to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm with the Triforce. Yes, this means they can do this without Link, but don't forget it annihilated a few species (like Kokiris and Gorons) and the war was very violent.

Yeah, I don't see the issues here.

But I got a question. How was Ganon revived between Zelda 3 and Zelda 1 ?

Also, I think the "sleeping Zelda" thing from right before Zelda 1 means that, from now on, all princesses will be called Zelda. We don't know if it was the case before though. Zelda 2's Zelda is likely the mother or grandmother of Zelda 1's Zelda.

[Saint Nathan]

Ganon obtains the entire Triforce. The Seven Sages seal away Ganon and the whole Triforce as a last resort, but villains with their eyes on the Triforce make for the Sacred Realm, which eventually turns into the Dark World and is filled with evil power.

oh my god

seriously

ALttP says flat out that Ganon got The Triforce inside The Sacred Realm. That's why it becomes The Dark World, because his wish for power corrupts it. If he got it outside The Sacred Realm then that fucks up not just the story of OoT and ALttP, but also flat-out contradicts everything ALttP says happened.

[Salamander]

The timeline looks pretty good to me considering that it by necessity relies on retconned interpretations of half the games, as any timeline would have to. Very few of the games were made with specific time placements in mind, just connections to a couple of other games at most; it's not something anybody should be worrying about in detail, just as Nintendo clearly isn't.

[-Mark-]

One thing I still find a little dubious is the 'Link dies' timeline, to be honest. If you take link dying as an acceptable, possible canon ending for Ocarina of Time, why isn't the same true for every other Zelda game?

If Link dies in Minish Cap, Vaati should rule the world. If he dies in Skyward Sword, Demise would revive fully. If we're to accept that Link dying in OoT is a possible timeline branch, then shouldn't every single game branch in two based on the possibility of Link's death?

Edited December 23, 2011 by -Mark-

[Koopalmier]

ALttP says flat out that Ganon got The Triforce inside The Sacred Realm. That's why it becomes The Dark World, because his wish for power corrupts it. If he got it outside The Sacred Realm then that fucks up not just the story of OoT and ALttP, but also flat-out contradicts everything ALttP says happened.

But... Ganondorf enters the Sacred Realm as Link takes the Master Sword, and takes the Triforce, but unlike what the legend in ALttP says, he doesn't directly get it, he must gets the two other shards too. So he manages to do so, returns in the Sacred Realm and THAT's when he becomes the Ganon we know (not the beast you fight as the final boss) ?

Sorry for making mistakes, I'm new at this. Only played SS and OoT (stuck in the Forest Temple, god dammit).

Edited December 23, 2011 by Koopalmier

[lounge]

This is exactly why I don't like that 3rd split. That's a what if scenario. I can't believe they approved of that idea. I don't want Link to die