Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Killtank]

Do any of the new DVD/Blu-Ray collections feature music scored by Bruce Faulconer? Truth be told, I'm not a big fan of the original Japanese score. I know it has its fans, but I always found it to be dated and severely lacking. I know Faulconer had the tendency to be unnecessarily loud and busy, but his score, oddly enough, did help shape my taste in music. I still love that score despite how over the top it was at the right moment. I like it, and I will defend his score at every opportunity. Anyway, I was hoping I could get my hands on a box set of DBZ DVDs/Blu-Ray disks which featured Faulconer's score, but I wasn't sure if was available for a variety of reasons. Do these new collections feature his score in some capacity as a setting option. If so, then I will gladly spend money on a box set. 

 

After all these years I still can't get over how cool Trunks' Destruction Theme sounds. 

 

It gets me so pumped. I just wish it was longer. 

[Zaysho]

Do any of the new DVD/Blu-Ray collections feature music scored by Bruce Faulconer? Truth be told, I'm not a big fan of the original Japanese score. I know it has its fans, but I always found it to be dated and severely lacking. I know Faulconer had the tendency to be unnecessarily loud and busy, but his score, oddly enough, did help shape my taste in music. I still love that score despite how over the top it was at the right moment. I like it, and I will defend his score at every opportunity. Anyway, I was hoping I could get my hands on a box set of DBZ DVDs/Blu-Ray disks which featured Faulconer's score, but I wasn't sure if was available for a variety of reasons. Do these new collections feature his score in some capacity as a setting option. If so, then I will gladly spend money on a box set. 

 

After all these years I still can't get over how cool Trunks' Destruction Theme sounds. 

 

It gets me so pumped. I just wish it was longer. 

 

Actually, most sets do feature the American replacement score. Nowadays, FUNimation's practice with DBZ is: English with original score, English with TV broadcast score, and Japanese. Based on this, I'd say if you want the latest release and the English broadcast score, that'd be the route to take (though as a side-note, Nathan Johnson scored the first two seasons of DBZ when FUNimation finally got around to redoing them; Faulconer Productions starts at season 3).

On a side note, if we're talking Trunks songs, I prefer "Battle Power Unlimited" from the Japanese version (I think this was a Kenji Yamamoto joint, but he made it under the name "Monolith"). That said, there was a great track that was composed by Faulconer Productions (I'm not sure who the actual composer is, I'm guessing Mike Smith or Scott Morgan as goku262002 points out below) but I don't recall it being used as it was in the TV series itself.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Zaysho

[goku262002]

The newest Blu-Rays are the Orange Bricks in HD, basically.

The previous versions, the "Level" sets, would've been comparable to the Dragon Boxes in terms of picture quality, but failed to catch on and the restoration process was too costly for them in the end.

And then there's Kai... but that's kind of its own side thing, really.

I see, cool. glad to see the orange bricks getting more love. any improvements to these OB 2.0s from the original OBs?

 

Do any of the new DVD/Blu-Ray collections feature music scored by Bruce Faulconer? Truth be told, I'm not a big fan of the original Japanese score. I know it has its fans, but I always found it to be dated and severely lacking. I know Faulconer had the tendency to be unnecessarily loud and busy, but his score, oddly enough, did help shape my taste in music. I still love that score despite how over the top it was at the right moment. I like it, and I will defend his score at every opportunity. Anyway, I was hoping I could get my hands on a box set of DBZ DVDs/Blu-Ray disks which featured Faulconer's score, but I wasn't sure if was available for a variety of reasons. Do these new collections feature his score in some capacity as a setting option. If so, then I will gladly spend money on a box set. 

 

After all these years I still can't get over how cool Trunks' Destruction Theme sounds. 

*youutubz*

 

It gets me so pumped. I just wish it was longer. 

First off, Scott Morgan is the real composer of 80% of the tracks, sorry just bugs me that Bruce still gets credit for work he didn't do.

Oh boy do I got a person for you to watch. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/coycoy88/videos

Coycoy has been spending the better part of 2 years on and off ripping the unreleased tracks of the original dbz dub. you should give him a watch.

What I'm more curious about is if Nicktoons will air dbzkai? they haven't aired anything DBZKAI or GT in a good while, in fact its gone from the airwaves for almost a year now and only airs on Vortexx. love for DBZKAI to go home were it finally belongs, Toonami.

[Killtank]

 

Actually, most sets do feature the American replacement score. Nowadays, FUNimation's practice with DBZ is: English with original score, English with TV broadcast score, and Japanese. Based on this, I'd say if you want the latest release and the English broadcast score, that'd be the route to take (though as a side-note, Nathan Johnson scored the first two seasons of DBZ when FUNimation finally got around to redoing them; Faulconer Productions starts at season 3).

 

Thank you for that link! The reason I asked was because I've seen so many different DVD box sets in the past, and I didn't look enough into them to tell them apart. I'm not totally against the Japanese score, but it's never really captivated me the same way. Also thank you for that addition information. I didn't know which people scored certain portions of the English broadcast.

 

 

First off, Scott Morgan is the real composer of 80% of the tracks, sorry just bugs me that Bruce still gets credit for work he didn't do.

Oh boy do I got a person for you to watch. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/coycoy88/videos

Coycoy has been spending the better part of 2 years on and off ripping the unreleased tracks of the original dbz dub. you should give him a watch.

 

 

No, it's okay. I had no idea that most of it was not scored by Bruce. Feel free to correct me. That's fascinating! Why he did he get most of the credit if he's only responsible for a small fraction?

 

Thank you for the link, too! I'm going to take a look at what he has to offer! I appreciate the recommendation! 

[Zaysho]

I see, cool. glad to see the orange bricks getting more love. any improvements to these OB 2.0s from the original OBs?

 

I think it's the same, crappy automated process they used last time, but with less DVNR (so the picture isn't as blurry and washed out like the originals), and the forced cropping is still in effect. (not quite, see edit) I actually don't get the latter, as FUNi didn't do this with Dragon Ball or GT (they used the same process, but it wasn't cropped or nearly as awful looking at the Orange Bricks). EDIT: As I think about, I read the cropping was reframed in a less half-assed way than the past version, so they do respect the picture a bit more... but it's still not presented as it was intended.

 

Yup, here.

 

 

First off, going with widescreen over standard definition was a must. We understand the concerns with what is lost during the 4:3 to 16:9 conversion. To offset this loss, as much as possible, our remaster team conducted a precise, shot-by-shot reframing of every scene, in every episode. Where a normal, 4:3 to 16:9 conversion would automatically crop everything to a predetermined template, these individuals manually place the camera to ensure the optimal picture when converting from its native, full screen format. It solves the problem of losing vital content while still being able to deliver an experience that utilizes your modern television. We knew that this would be one of most controversial decisions with the release, which is why we went the extra mile to make the end result something diehard fans can appreciate. We’re really pushing for fans to not pass judgment on the widescreen conversion until they’ve had a chance to actually sit down and watch an episode.

 

This is still a load of nonsense in my book, because there was literally no reason for the cropping, but whatever.

 

As you can tell, I'm no fan of the Orange Bricks nor the process in which they were created, myself. I have my Dragon Boxes, but this half-assed practice still bugs me.

 

And while I'm not a fan of the American score as a whole, I gotta give it up to Scott Morgan and Mike Smith. They did cut some good tracks.  And, indeed, Faulconer himself gets way too much credit in that regard. Did he even name them in soundtrack releases? I remember reading somewhere he didn't, and I know Morgan has little to no love for the man (can't blame him, honestly).

 

 

Thank you for that link! The reason I asked was because I've seen so many different DVD box sets in the past, and I didn't look enough into them to tell them apart. I'm not totally against the Japanese score, but it's never really captivated me the same way. Also thank you for that addition information. I didn't know which people scored certain portions of the English broadcast.

No prob! It can be really confusing, so I don't blame you for not knowing the difference between all the releases. Only warning I can give you regarding these sets is watch out for the cropping, but if you're not fussy about aspect ratios and that sorta thing, you likely won't care or notice. All the same, the show was never meant to be seen like that, and it screws up the overall compositions of the frames, so it's a deal breaker for me personally. But I suppose that doesn't really matter though, since cropped is the only way the show will be released this side for a very long time.

 

I don't hate the English score myself, and the ironic thing is that was the version I grew up on and I enjoyed it, but the moment I heard the Japanese soundtrack... that was it for me. I loved it, especially the Buu-era music. My main problem with the English score is that it never turns off, so I can't even truly appreciate it except for a handful of tracks. It's just a lot of background noise, to me, and it became more forgettable because of that. That's me though, I definitely see the appeal otherwise. But I suppose that's veering off a bit...

Edited February 18, 2014 by Zaysho

[goku262002]

Scott actually said he wanted to add quiet parts but wasn't allowed to because they wanted DBZ to be more cartoon like (Wall to wall music). so he had to make tracks like this to compensate.

Quote from him:

 

 

My name for this one in the studio was "Trunks Stews". Took about 3 minutes to record but I always liked My first thought was there should be NO music there....so I went super minimal (we had to do wall to wall music)

 

 

No, it's okay. I had no idea that most of it was not scored by Bruce. Feel free to correct me. That's fascinating! Why he did he get most of the credit if he's only responsible for a small fraction?
 
Thank you for the link, too! I'm going to take a look at what he has to offer! I appreciate the recommendation! 

No problem.

Bruce was a dick, and only gave himself credit by a certain point. Scott Morgan there was one of the other major composers from the studio. Vid related.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_sXOquzxps

[Zaysho]

Scott actually said he wanted to add quiet parts but wasn't allowed to because they wanted DBZ to be more cartoon like (Wall to wall music). so he had to make tracks like this to compensate.

 

Ah, right on. I do remember reading about that as well (I lurk the Kanzenshuu boards occasionally, and I enjoy reading Morgan's insights). Though, just because they were forced to have wall-to-wall music, doesn't mean I agree with the decision (though I can't blame the guy for doing his job). Admittedly, I like how Morgan tried to solve that problem as best as he could.

 

And I'll second the comment about Faulconer. I've seen the video you linked to before, and that's why I never credit Faulconer when I have to talk about that score. I may not care about the score itself, but I hate that Faulconer hogged the glory as he did. Come to think of it, didn't he sue FUNimation over the music at some point but lost that case?

[VO.SUPER]

I don't enjoy The dub score at many times because of it never stopping. There was never a quiet moment, with music having to play whenever characters even talked. I remember how the music would also move with the characters ala Tom and Jerry and that bugged the hell out of me. I never liked that kind of score.

I never liked the Japanese soundtrack either. The score just got too cheesy at times with blaring trumpets and a tiny orchestra. However, the times when Toei used the movie soundtracks were great times.

[MugiMikey]

What can you do Mikey? Their original BD attempt failed, and cost them an arm and a leg to make, Kai failed to generate good sales from a wider audience either. What DBZ has is what no other Funimation show does, it has access to not just anime fans (aside from AoT) but a whole slew of mainstream audiences. That stuff pays them good, and they can only go where the money calls in that case. Hardcore DBZ fans got their DragonBoxes, and that could only come out in limited copies because of how much it cost, so all those hardcore fans can do is grit there teeth and hope Toei makes their own upscaled BD release. (HAH!) 

 

Edit: And as for the problem with that dub circulating; again, too much attachment and not worth the price if Kai was any indication.

Yeah, the problem was that FUNi over saturated the market with Dragon Ball DVDs and Blu-rays. When the original BDs were starting, the orange bricks recently just finished their run, Kai was being released on both DVD and BD, and the Dragon Boxes were also in the middle of being released. From a business standpoint, it was a terrible idea to have four different releases of the same show out at the same time. So they laid low for a few years, released that Ocean cast DVD set, and now returned to doing BDs again because apparently the masses really want the show to be cropped and the colors to be over saturated (they claimed that's how the poll turned out). If FUNi did this same practice to any other show, fans would probably riot in the streets.

[VO.SUPER]

I'm sure most casual DBZ fans don't care whether the show is cropped or not; as long as they're fooled into thinking the thing's automatically better for being widescreen.

 

Also, the Orange Bricks finished their run in 2009, does that really count as recently finished?

[MugiMikey]

Yeah, the BD Level sets started in 2011 and the orange bricks were still being sold in their entirety at the time. They were on the market together.

And yes, most casual fans don't know better. They believe FUNi 's propaganda that it's the "definitive" release, that it's been "remastered frame by frame," and that it's been "transferred to widescreen."

[VO.SUPER]

Yeah, the BD Level sets started in 2011 and the orange bricks were still being sold in their entirety at the time. They were on the market together.

And yes, most casual fans don't know better. They believe FUNi 's propaganda that it's the "definitive" release, that it's been "remastered frame by frame," and that it's been "transferred to widescreen."

 

They don't believe the propoganda because Funimation says it is the definitive version. If that was the case, they'd have bought the level sets. They just care if it's in widescreen and has zero film grain.

[Zaysho]

Yeah, the BD Level sets started in 2011 and the orange bricks were still being sold in their entirety at the time. They were on the market together.

And yes, most casual fans don't know better. They believe FUNi 's propaganda that it's the "definitive" release, that it's been "remastered frame by frame," and that it's been "transferred to widescreen."

 

The really frustrating part was that the survey they conducted seemed like it pushed the cropped widescreen presentation. Using shots that look fine either way, explaining how widescreen fills the TV, and I'm pretty sure they talked about grain and how much "better" the show looks without it. Indeed, the casual fan just doesn't know any better, and with so many products on the shelf, all claiming they're the definitive version, I suppose you can't blame them for going for the newest, shiniest release with the right ratio of episodes for the price. The "Level" Sets didn't offer that, unfortunately, despite their superior presentation.

 

Granted, FUNimation did their best to market the "Level" sets, but it just wasn't the right time for yet another Dragon Ball product that couldn't really be hyped by nostalgia or purists who wanted the best presentation (we just bought the Dragon Boxes for crying out loud).

[MugiMikey]

They don't believe the propoganda because Funimation says it is the definitive version. If that was the case, they'd have bought the level sets. They just care if it's in widescreen and has zero film grain.

But like I said, for the most part I'm pretty sure the Level sets had lower sales than anticipated because they were released at the wrong time. Sure, a lot of people care about the show being faux widescreen with no film grain, but that didn't stop the blue and green bricks from selling. Heck, even the Yu Yu Hakusho BDs sold well despite the 4:3 ratio and film grain. Dragon Ball Z shouldn't need 20% of the picture removed in order to sell.

[VO.SUPER]

But like I said, for the most part I'm pretty sure the Level sets had lower sales than anticipated because they were released at the wrong time. Sure, a lot of people care about the show being faux widescreen with no film grain, but that didn't stop the blue and green bricks from selling. Heck, even the Yu Yu Hakusho BDs sold well despite the 4:3 ratio and film grain. Dragon Ball Z shouldn't need 20% of the picture removed in order to sell.

 

Hey, you may have a point. Though I guess we'll never know at this point until Toei gets their heads out of their bums and make a real BD release.

[Zaysho]

Hey, you may have a point. Though I guess we'll never know at this point until Toei gets their heads out of their bums and make a real BD release.

Well, Dragon Ball has gotten some momentum again thanks to Battle of Gods, but I kinda doubt a new restoration is in the cards at the moment. I think Kai is the closest to HD treatment the series is going to get for a good long while. I don't think these restoration/remastering deals are quite as commonplace in Japan as they are over here. The Dragon Boxes were a huge surprise in that regard, since Dragon Ball and some of the other shows Toei was considering for restoration NEVER had home releases in their original territories (except for movies).

 

I think Toei's good until there's a larger demand on their end for a new, properly remastered, re-release of the series; the Japanese in particular are probably more interested in new material and not rehashes and re-releases at this point. They already got the series re-released in various formats in just a few years: Kanzenban, new printings of the original Tankoban, "Ani-manga," the Dragon Boxes, and Kai. The US on the other hand seems fine with one re-release double/triple/quadruple dip after another at the moment.

[wolf4537]

I'm sure most casual DBZ fans don't care whether the show is cropped or not; as long as they're fooled into thinking the thing's automatically better for being widescreen.

 

Also, the Orange Bricks finished their run in 2009, does that really count as recently finished?

I have every single Orange brick box set, and every blue brick box set of the original Dragonball series. I liked both of them the way they were. HOWEVER, the only thing I didn't like was that the opening song was changed for the dub, and yet in the dub they still kept the Japanese ending. 

[Zaysho]

I have every single Orange brick box set, and every blue brick box set of the original Dragonball series. I liked both of them the way they were. HOWEVER, the only thing I didn't like was that the opening song was changed for the dub, and yet in the dub they still kept the Japanese ending. 

 

I only have the third season set of the Orange Bricks, but I have most of the Blue Bricks (need Season 1 still...), and I don't remember the opening on there being changed. It's not the same one from TV broadcast/original DVD releases? Or is it different between the English w/ Japanese score and English w/ dub score tracks?

[VO.SUPER]

The orange brick theme is an instrumental played over Cha-la Head Chala because Funimation couldn't get the rights for that release. (Japanese musicians are not only ficky, but they charge you an arm and a leg for their music.)

 

 

I think Funi did their best with what they had; you can tell they were trying to capture the more free spirited feel of Cha-la Head Chala with this song, and it does sound pretty good. It's more respectful than their other "hardcore" english dub efforts for Z.

 

 

[MugiMikey]

No, FUNi could have used Cha La Head Cha La if they wanted to. It's present on the Dragon Boxes, their original dubs of the movies had it, and no other countries had issues licensing it. They changed it to that generic rock song on the orange bricks just because.

[VO.SUPER]

No, FUNi could have used Cha La Head Cha La if they wanted to. It's present on the Dragon Boxes, their original dubs of the movies had it, and no other countries had issues licensing it. They changed it to that generic rock song on the orange bricks just because.

 

Then why did they keep the endings? Why were they able to dub or have every other intro except Cha-la Head Chala and We gotta Power? Just because is not a good answer. 

 

If they really could have those themes and just changed them for this release, why didn't they keep this intro music from their CN run?

 

[MugiMikey]

I have no idea. FUNi is so erratic with the Dragon Ball franchise.

[VO.SUPER]

I have no idea. FUNi is so erratic with the Dragon Ball franchise.

 

Then give me a reason why I should believe you? This intro music is far from the hardcore variety to attract fans from the original broadcast who they hoped to get with this release. And the first ending theme sounds like something you'd hear at a children's festival. 

 

I stick with my theory.

[MugiMikey]

Because they've used it in other releases without any problems, before and after the orange bricks. The song seems inexpensive to license as other countries, including ones that produced lower budget dubs, use it too. Evidence points to FUNi deciding not to use it.

[VO.SUPER]

Because they've used it in other releases without any problems, before and after the orange bricks. The song seems inexpensive to license as other countries, including ones that produced lower budget dubs, use it too. Evidence points to FUNi deciding not to use it.

 

When were those dubs made? Funi's (non-ocean) started in the early 2000s. Last I checked, most dubs (like the famous Latino dub) were made during the 90s, when the show ran. Rights issues could have changed over the year. Hell, I recently heard that the singer of Cha-La Head Chala doesn't want his songs dubbed when before you could do that fine.(i.e Phillipines and Latino).

 

I'm not trying to come off as antagonistic here man, but this logic is just not jelling with me.

 

Also, from what I've seen of the movie releases, they seem to all have that Rock song in place of Cha-la, unless you mean the Ocean movies, because those were handled by Pioneer last I checked.