Final Fantasy XIII Lightning Saga

[Conando]

People from FF XIII-2 didn't die

WRONG.

You just fucking killed Serah through Seeress bullshit. Pretty sure she's dead as shit.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

WRONG.

You just fucking killed Serah through Seeress bullshit. Pretty sure she's dead as shit.

I would honestly bet with you that somehow she will be alive again.

[T-Min]

- People from XIII-2 haven't died. Because of the effects of the chaos (I'm not sure if this is the proper English word), people have stopped aging and don't get old.

Oh, come on guys, it could be executed well! Maybe it will be handled intelligently!

Maybe!

...

Who am I kidding. I'll be very surprised if the storyline has anything of value to offer at this point.

[buba]

Kingdom Hearts is a series about existential friendship and what it means. Final Fantasy 13 is just crappy writing.

Ok, but how does the incredible power of friendship explain stuff like clones and time travel.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Tmsp

[T-Min]

Ok, but how does the incredible power of friendship explain stuff like clones and time travel.

It doesn't, but it's at least well-written, intelligently executed and works in the context of the universe.

This probably won't be.

Honestly, I can't help but find it hilarious that this kind of crap is where they decided XIII's story should go after the first.

Edited September 6, 2012 by T-Man

[Balding Spider]

Ok, but how does the incredible power of friendship explain stuff like clones and time travel.

Or the resurerrections of characters you yourself put in the grave.

[buba]

It doesn't, but it's at least well-written, intelligently-executed and works in the context of the universe.

That's all I needed to know, friendship doesn't explain the confusing crap in the series (I guess).

I'm not a huge fan of KH so if you say that it is well-written and intelligently-executed I will believe in you, me as a "casual" KH player can't get most of the stuff that happens in the games and countless spin-offs.

[Wraith]

I'm a huge Kingdom Hearts fan and I can safely say that it is NOT well written in the slightest. Kingdom Hearts is the lesser of the two evils.

[Sami]

Kingdom Hearts has a really great plot, but the actual quality of the dialogue is pretty shit, as far as I'm concerned. 358/2 Days ironically had the best dialogue out of all of the games, so it's really a shame that nothing actually happened and it ended up being a huge disappointment.

[Wraith]

Kingdom Hearts started out with a great plot, but it slowly turned into an unintelligible clusterfuck that matches Final Fantasy 13.

[Sami]

Kingdom Hearts started out with a great plot, but it slowly turned into an unintelligible clusterfuck that matches Final Fantasy 13.

[Space☆Tomoki]

I've never played any FF games, so I can't comment on them.

Off topic:

I love the Kingdom Hearts series, but man, I just hope the next game is KH3, so we can finally kill Xehanort and all of his other counterparts once and for all, because I'm starting to get a bit tired of the current arc, I mean... how many times do we have to kill the same guy until he's dead for real?

Edited September 6, 2012 by Spider-Man Noir

[pppp]

So did anyone notice how Toryiama is absolutely creepy? It's like he's declaring his love for Lightning O_o :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj66f6Pvyuk

[Wraith]

I think the reason we're getting all these games is because Toriyama is determined to get us to like lightning just as much as he does.

It isn't working.

[buba]

I think the reason we're getting all these games is because Toriyama is determined to get us to like lightning just as much as he does.

It isn't working.

I like her, not as much as him, but I like her.

[T-Min]

It's like he's convinced she's some sort of gaming messiah.

[turbojet]

I like Lightning before she turned into a softy.

Hard ass and snarky Lightning was best Lightning.

[KHCast]

Kingdom Hearts has a really great plot, but the actual quality of the dialogue is pretty shit, as far as I'm concerned. 358/2 Days ironically had the best dialogue out of all of the games, so it's really a shame that nothing actually happened and it ended up being a huge disappointment.

Off topic: I thought 3D had the best Dialogue,(Mostly cause of Riku and YX). 358/2 days.....ehh. KH2 did a better job. But yeah, The story is good, but it's executed horribly. There are still good points in the plot that make you feel positive about it, But that gets lost easily.

On-Topic:Still it's better than what 13's plot has attempted to do. 13 is just so random and uninspired....Although don't get the hate for the reason the old cast is around still.(People complain about hope coming back, but didn't complain about Aqua,Terra and Ven,Xion and Roxas basically all being confirmed to be in 3? Really? I mean a lot of those characters are just as hated from what I've seen.)

Edited September 7, 2012 by Pepsiman

[Salamander]

I like Lightning before she turned into a softy.

Hard ass and snarky Lightning was best Lightning.

Speaking as someone who's never played Final Fantasy XIII: I've been reading a few books lately which star protagonists who are what you might call hard-ass and snarky, but who turn soft by the end. And I feel like the writers here are kind of on a different planet to the readers/players, because these characters are so much more interesting and individual before their supposed character development, which strips them of everything that was unique about them.

As for Kingdom Hearts, I feel that to understand what's going on you need to have played every single game, but because it's split over so many consoles and every single spin-off is vital to the story, then it's very easy to get lost. I'm playing 3D at the moment, never played a Kingdom Hearts game before, very little idea what's going on, but I'm just going with it. I think they could do a far better job at making the story accessible for new players, but I'm willing to accept that as a problem of presentation rather than necessarily with the story itself.

...This concludes my post in an FFXIII topic that had nothing to do with FFXIII. Actually I guess I can just throw in my two cents and saying that nobody having died or aged does seem to render it pretty pointless that the game is set three centuries in the future. I'd be really interested to hear why exactly it seems necessary for it to be set three centuries in the future and what they couldn't have done by just setting it after the previous two games and using some other magical plot device.

[pppp]

Has anybody seen this parody? It's hilarious :

[Badnik Mechanic]

Why Final Fantasy 13-2 is Shit part 0700AF XX plotholes and bewbs.

So I just beat FF13-2... my reaction to the ending? This ---> ".... .... ... ... ..."

Because honestly? What else/how else is one supposed to react, with rage? With anger? With a sense of satisfaction? No, because right up until the credits roll, you are trapped in an unsatisfying game which has already done enough to place you in the mindset that Square Enix have completely lost the plot and they don't appear to know what they're doing anymore. So why would/did I expect the ending to be any good? Fact is I didn't. So I just didn't care when I saw how underwhelming a climax the game was.

But before we get onto that... lets go through some of the memorable moments in the game shall we.

"I managed to catch a green chocobo!"

Well that was it. Yup, that was it, the whole game is such a forgettable experience it makes you wonder if this was just a side project that someone was doing for kicks and then the CEO of Square Enix went mad one day and said 'THIS IS OUR NEXT TITLE!' and everyone was so scared for loosing their jobs they made a game around both him and the idea.

But lets talk about the plot anyway.No wait... actually lets not... lets talk about something else which I think is incredible.

Why is Lightning not the main character?

I'm actually quite surprised, given how people will start 'class action' these days for stuff like the Mass Effect 3 ending why this game didn't also get sent to the office of fair trading for miss-leading customers.

Take a look at your game box... who is on the cover...Lightning! Turn to the back of the box, Who is the main image of? Lightning! Read the box description, what is the only character name mentioned... Lightning! Which character has more screenshots on the back of the box? LIGHTNING! What was the first ingame cut scene Square showed in English to promote the game? The openning fight between Ciaus and... yup... LIGHTNING!

So why the fuck am I playing as her sister? The second most annoying character in FF13 after Dodge!?

Seriously! Just look at your own game box if you don't believe me! Lightning practically sells this game because she was the only good thing in FF13, Serah isn't mentioned once! The only clue you have that Serah is even in the game is a cut scene graphic on the back of the box! Even Noel isn't mentioned!

Even Snow! Snow! Of all characters has a more prominant place on the box than Serah does.... . .... SERAH IS THE MAIN FUCKING CHARACTER!? AND SHE'S NOT EVEN MENTIONED!?

=================

The following are a list of 10 plotholes I can think of which were never explained fully and I shouldn't have to buy the DLC to find out.

I honestly thought this was a model mistake when I saw it because theres no reason at all for it to exist

1: Why is Snow a L'ci oh however the fuck you spell that... .. ... .Why is snow a magician again? I thought the Fal'Ce were all dead? Yet at the start of the game we learn that Serah learnt how to cast spells without the aid of the fal'ci's! Why did he need to do this!? And how did he do this!?

2: Hope and his Marvellous Time Travelling Machine that we never see... seriously... what the fuck is going on here? Hope does more time travelling in this game than anyone. Yet we never see his time machine!? We're told by that 'not so mystic Maya' that only select people can travel through time, yet Hope can do it at the drop of a hat! And in one piece of dialouge his annoying partner says 'it's too dangerous to try again' only for Hope to imediately say 'we'll travel 100 years into the future to be there' WHAT!? HOW!?

Hi Serah! You don't know us, but we're here because theres been a distinct lack of female flesh on show up until now!

3: Fang and Vanille show up because... well... ... ... we urm... they just did. During the dream sequence, Fang and Vanille show up to guide Serah out of her dream prison... ok... Why? Vanille only met Serah once, and that was 5 seconds before she turned to crystal! Fang never met her! In fact the characters almost seem to say themselves that 'yeah this is a plothole at that point' Why the heck are they there!? And why does Serah act like she's known them for years when they've never actually met or even exchanged names!

4: Sazh, Dodge & Chocobo chicks Marvellous Time Travelling machine... that we never see. So not only can Hope time travel... but Sazh, Dodge and the Chocobo chick can!? HOW!? WHY!? Why are they there at the end!? Not to mention, why would Sazh do this...

Sazh: Son! We live in 1AF, would you like to come with me to the end of days when Cocoon will fall from the sky and everyone will die because this annoying little boy wants us too! All your friends will be dead! But Hope will be there!

Dodge: Geeeee! That sounds fun! But I've got homework to do.... =(

Sazh: Thats ok son, you can do it on the airship! 8)

Even if Sazh went to the future and brought his son! Why on earth did he let his son come with him in the airship! Which at one point looks like it's going to crash!

5: How did Hope/Sazh get to the future since time travel is only for a small number of people and by Hope's own dialogue they were lucky the first time they tried it!? According to 'not so mystic Maya' and Noel time travel can only be done by a few select people, which is why Snow can't come with them when they meet him. So are Hope and Sazh able to hop around as they please? To give you some idea as to how broken this logic is.

Hope builds a time machine, goes to 400AF (although at some point prior to this he must be living in order to build the Ai which goes loopy in one timeline and start work on arcadia-land.), anyway... alright I can buy he built a time machine and maybe use it once... but to use it twice to then go to 500AF... erm... no...

So where was Sazh when this went on!? According to the end of FF13 he's there in 1AF with Snow and co. he was NOT pulled into the time void/whatever the hell it is. By all rights he is still living in 3AF when the story begins. SO HOW DOES HE GET TO 500AF!?

The only explanations I can think of and the second one is the more likely yet also contradicts the story further...

1: Sazh builds a time machine... why he does this? How does he know where to go... all these things are unlikely...

2: Hope goes back in time to get him... which means in 400AF, Hope goes back in time 3AF, brings Sazh, dodge and the chocobo chick to 500AF In total, Hope has made at least 3 different time jumps.... THIS IS DESPITE TIME TRAVEL NOT BEING SOMETHING EVERYONE CAN DO!? And Hope's love interest saying it's too dangerous to do it again!?

6: In 500 years why has the military not advanced? We are led to believe that 500 years pass in which humanity is still developing advanced technology on Gran Pulse of all places so whilst we can expect some slowdown, Arcadia shows that they advanced upto and beyond anything on cocoon. So why are the military still using weapons and uniforms seen in FF13!? Did nobody think that maybe we should make the airships a little bit more futuristic? That maybe they should use laser rifles insted of machine guns? Photon torpedoes instead of air to air missiles!? We even see they have advanced because we're told humans build Atlas and other giant military monsters.

To give you an idea of how stupid this is... there is more technological development in Final Fantasy 9 and Final Fantasy FFX-2! And in FF9 the time between the airship technology jumps is said to only be a few weeks at the most!

7: Hopes Arc isn't that big is it? So they can't stop the pillar from being destroyed... so they're making a spaceship to evacuate... thats... quite a good plan. No really it is... Just... oh several problems.

1: Development starts prior to 400AF.

2: 100 years later the Arc is finished.

3: The Arc doesn't look as big as Cocoon was.

Now even if you assume there was a mass of deaths when Fang and Vanille did their crystal thing... how on earth does that thing hold 500 years worth of population growth!? You seriously expect us to believe that the entire population of Cocoon at the end of FF13 + the population increase up to 500AF all fitted on there!? You sure we didn't forget someone?

8: Cocoon's collapse didn't really seem to do anything!? Since the start of the game, we have been led to believe that when Cocoon falls it'll cause a mass extinction event that will kill billions, it will open a rift in heaven Valhalalalalah and chaos will come running out... hence the reason to evacuate. So when Cocoon does fall, why is it the only thing that happens is that suddenly demand for dusters in Arcadia increases!? Theres no shockwave, no wall of destruction, no burning flaming destruction... EVEN THE SKY IS STILL CLEAR!? In fact even the airships show no sign of there being a shockwave from the impact. Arcadia itself is still standing! Yet according to the plot, this was humanity's downfall!? BUT EVERYTHING IS FINE!?

No someone is likely to say 'oh but it was the chaos that did it!' Erm no! No it wasn't! In the original timeline, cocoon falls and there is no plan for humanity, even if they were still on the ground based on the destruction we see, they would not have died in the billions as we're told... so we're led to assume that cocoon itself must have caused mass destruction... SO WHY DIDN'T IT!?

Whilst we see the chaos come out of time and THEN destroy everything... WHY!? Nobody but Serah has died!? There is no reason for it to come out! We're told it'll only happen if a huge number of people die at once in the game! Either way you look at this it doesn't make any sense!

Cocoon's collapse doesn't do anything!? SERIOUSLY! WHY IS THERE NO DAMAGE AT ALL CAUSED BY THIS!? Even if you like and defend FF13-2, how can you not find this just slightly strange!?

To show you just how ridiculous this was... here is concept art showing it's fall...

Tidal waves... huge ruptures in the earth devastation...

The final game event...

It made things a bit muddly.

When this coat gets to 88 miles per hour! You're gonna see a serious plothole!

9: Snow and his Marvellous Time Travelling Machine that we never see... I nearly forgot this one because it's such a minor moment in the plot yet looking at the time world select menu again and Noel's dialogue at the end you suddenly realise Snow is a walking plothole.

At the start of the game Snow walks off towards the crystal pillar never to be seen again, he is presumed dead... yet he turns up at the Sunleth Waterscape.... 300 YEARS LATER!? HOW!? WHY!? During this sequence we see him try to use a timegate and he can't! Noel then says that only a few people can use them, so how did he get 300 years into the future!?

Oh but wait! His plothole isn't over yet folks it gets even more stupid even though we never see him in the game again!

At the end of this sequence, he vanishes, the explanation? 'This time line doesn't exist anymore... ok right... so we assume he's therefore somewhere between 3AF and 300AF? If theres any sense at all... somewhere near 3AF... possibly walking towards the pillar right?

SO WHY DO THEY SAY AT THE END OF THE GAME "500AF, thats where we'll go, thats where we'll call home, and all our friends will be there... Hope, Lightning and Snow!" Urm... why? Why is snow at 500AF? What possible reason does he have to be there? Hope never says he brought him, we don't see him, yet Noel and Sarah think he's there? Why would he be? Unless Snow learnt how cast pretrify on himself, how on earth has he lived for over 500 years!?

So either Snow has a time machine we don't see... Or Hope has made a 4th trip through time to get him too!

10: Serah... you are engaged to Snow... stop making eyes at Noel and stop showing your cleavage to him.

Press the main menu button with Serah as the leader... hmmm.... thats certainly an interesting eyeline you have there... looking at Noel... in that way... well maybe I'm looking too much into it... Oh a cut scene... we start off with Serah's cleavage... and in the middle more cleavage... and we end with... cleavage.

I'm not making this up, almost every cut scene in this game involving Serah, the camera seems to eventually focus on her boobs at some point. it's true! Go watch the cut scenes of FF13-2 and watch how many times the camera zooms in on them, it's crazy. In one scene, I think it's the sequences when you go fight the final form of odin, the camera zooms in on them around 5 times!

Also, for someone who is aparently in love with Snow, she has about as much chemistry with him as a creationist has with evolution.

11. Ok I originally said 10, and whilst this isn't really a plot hole... good god it needs to be said...

Serah... you are in love with Noel Snow... so why are you giving the impression that you want to sleep with your sister every second!?

"LIGHTNING HELP ME!" "LETS GO FIND LIGHTNING!" "WILL LIGHTNING BE THERE!" "I HAD A DREAM... A DREAM ABOUT LIGHTNING!" "COULD IT BE A MESSAGE FROM LIGHTNING!?" "WILL I EVER SEE YOU AGAIN, LIGHTNING?"

Stop undressing me with your eyes....

Oh my god... will she give it a rest already, anyone would think she was engaged to Lightning the way she continually goes on about her. Every single object she touches she thinks it's something to do with lightning, every event in the game she thinks Lightning had something to do with it. Every time they go through a time gate it's 'maybe we'll see lightning,' Every dream, every new person she meets, every new area... everything! It's to do with lightning, and goodness me, if they wern't sisters, I'd be convinced she was having some kind of sexual relations with her given how much she goes on about her and how she shows more emotion to her than she does to... oh whose that guy... the one in the coat... Oh yeah... HER FIANCE!

Theres only one fantasy in this game... unfortunately to show it would give the game an AO rating.

Oh but wait! I'm not done yet people, theres plently more aside from these plotholes that are wrong with this game, we havn't even talked about the side quests yet... mainly because there aren't any. Cocobo logic, gold saucer rip offs, the fact that almost nothing happens in the story at all and many many more!

Come! Take my hand as we go through the time gate to the next post about why Final Fantasy 13-2 is shit. And if you've not travelled in time before, don't worry, it doesn't stop everyone else from doing it even though they're not supposed to.

[turbojet]

This is tremendous.

[Komodin]

Hm, I guess I should let my little bro read all of that; he might actually change his mind on getting it...

[Balding Spider]

Holy shit dude, your hate of 13-2 is literally oozing out of my computer screen here. Any way I just found this out, it's both awesome and stupid at the same time:

Hey it's an homage to the Ultros and Typhon battle from ff6, then even repeat the dialogue when they show up on the Air ship. That's freaking awesome.

What's stupid is that instead of being an in game unlockable you have to pay for this fight.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Balding Spider

[Teoskaven]

About the Snow plothole: it's explained not in a DLC but (wtf) in a japan-only novel.

Of course.