Final Fantasy XIII Lightning Saga

[Sami]

Wikipedia lists Time Warner as the owner of Rocksteady, but Square Enix has a 25% stock in the company. I'm not so sure how much that qualifies to use their talent.

I'm not so sure why everyone thinks Final Fantasy is crap. The games are getting positive feedback from reviewers and consumers alike. Yes, the game isn't another FF7 but the games are still good.

[Chooch]

I just want fucking Versus XIII. This nonsense with Lightning needs to end already.

[pppp]

I'm not so sure why everyone thinks Final Fantasy is crap.

Edited August 3, 2012 by pppp

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Persona 3/4 - Fantastically unique in art style, music, gameplay, and story. Very deep combat system that stays fresh over the course of 70 hours due to the use of multiple Personas throughout the game. Better than XIII.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Ming Ming Love

[Badnik Mechanic]

Nothing to do after the main story? Have you ever played this game at all or you are just lying through your teeth? It's either one of those. Because this is NOT true. There is Cieth missions you can do after the main story.

[Autosaver]

What I'm saying is that XIII is a good game on its own. Sure it isn't as stellar as previous titles, but to label it as crap is something I find grossly exaggerated. Is Sonic Generations crap because it isn't as good as Sonic 2?

[Chooch]

How about no?

And please. Enough with your whining.

You pretend like I'm complaining for no fucking reason. I have plenty of reason to be tired of Square-Enix's shit.

From the moment the Fabula Nova Pretentious Nonsense series was announced by Square-Enix I was always more interested in Versus XIII than normal Final Fantasy XIII. I have been eagerly anticipating the game for six whole years at this point. I played Final Fantasy XIII. I didn't like it! So did a lot of other fucking people.

XIII-2 is arguably just as bad if not worse than the original and yet they insist on shoving Lightning in my face a third fucking time in order to resolve the absolutely ridiculous cliffhanger at the end of XIII-2? I have every right to be angry and disappointed.

Is Sonic Generations crap because it isn't as good as Sonic 2?

That's a genuinely awful analogy.

I don't really even like Sonic 2 so comparing it to Generations is downright laughable.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Chooch

[T-Min]

Nothing to do after the main story? Have you ever played this game at all or you are just lying through your teeth? It's either one of those. Because this is NOT true. There are Cieth missions you can do after the main story.

Honestly, I'll be the first to admit that those can't really hold a candle to what the other games he pointed out had to offer. Gran Pulse was cool and all, but is it really as cool as the social links of Persona 3 and 4? The gargantuan overworld of Xenoblade? The towns and dungeons of the Tales games?

How about no?

How about yes? I'm one of the few legitimate fans of XIII and even I think this game didn't need and most certainly shouldn't have had a sequel. It was an incredibly stupid move that only served to divide the fanbase even further, never mind XIII-2's insultingly low quality.

And please. Enough with your whining.

You sure are reacting with disproportionate anger towards these posts. It's almost like you're implying that people shouldn't be allowed to complain. If that's really the message you're trying to convey here, why not? Why shouldn't people be allowed to express their opinions? Are we somehow insulting you personally by criticizing things you like? Can't say I see why you love XIII-2 so much, but hey. Good for you. Play it. Enjoy it. When the sequel comes out, enjoy that too. You can talk about how much you enjoy it and why, so why shouldn't I be able to talk about why I feel the exact opposite way?

And on the subject of why Final Fantasy is considered crap nowadays, I don't think that's entirely XIII's fault. XIII did receive good reviews from critics and, if the user score on Metacritic is anything to go by, satisfied most - far, far from all - but most gamers as well. Dissident and pppp both bring up valid points - points that I'm quite sick of hearing after being in so many debates on this subject, but valid points nonetheless :V. However, we've got to remember that all praise and criticism towards XIII all stems from the fact that, even if its quality is highly contested, it's just as unique as all of the other games Diss mentioned in its own special way, from its approach to telling its story, which is more like reading a book than watching a show or movie as in most previous Final Fantasies; to its action-packed, timing-based battle system that still requires at least some strategy due to the element of customizing and switching between Paradigms; to its linear approach to gameplay, which is meant to complement the game's storytelling and make the storyline in general feel more believable. These could all be considered strengths working in the game's favor just as much as they could be considered weaknesses that completely kill it.

I think what's more to blame is Final Fantasy XIV, a game that is, from what I can gather, so utterly broken and objectively terrible that it rivals even Sonic 06, and XIII-2 certainly didn't help matters. With XIII and XIII-2, it's the difference between a game that technically does what it sets out to do well but turns a lot of people off in the process, and a game that's flat-out horribly designed.

But since you'll probably kill me unless I clarify, that's only my opinion~

[pppp]

How about no?

And please. Enough with your whining.

Says the member that starts whining everytime someone says something bad about the FFXIII series

I would explain why what you said is wrong but T-Man already did that. Thanks T-Man

Edited August 7, 2012 by pppp

[Sami]

Your opinion. I definitely do not find these series fantastic like you claim it to be.

Let's look at it objectively, then.

Both Persona 3 and 4 offer a much higher degree of freedom than XIII ever did, so in the field of actually letting you make decisions for yourself, it's got XIII beat. Argue against this if you'd like.

Persona 3 and 4 have better stories. Before you try and dispute this, allow me to clarify; I can't tell you for a fact that Persona 3's story is better than that of Persona 4, or Tales of the Abyss, or Xenoblade, because that's a matter of opinion. All of those games go about telling their story in a certain way and all of them have their own individual quirks. ... So why can I say that these games have objectively better stories than Final Fantasy XIII? Well, nachinat every veck had a completely different backstory that wasn't fully explored in the actual story. Sure, the backstories aren't exactly cal on their own merits, but I wouldn't quite say it was dobby enough to warra- Oh, sorry, do you not know what that means? It's fine, I've got you covered; just read this book. You'll understand everything when you're done reading. Have fun!

LOL do you hear yourself? Saying "Unique battle system" that keeps the player involved in real time. Trying to make this game sound better. Um, sorry if that's all you can say about its "unique" battle system, then this battle system isn't "unique" at all as I know a number of games that does this.

I don't have much to say about it because I haven't played much of it yet; I was just looking at other big name JRPGs that have come out recently that trump XIII in every aspect.

Regardless, you can scratch out Xenoblade if you want. Instead, I can talk about how Chrono Trigger (released in 1995) makes XIII look incredibly poor, if you'd prefer.

]Nothing to do after the main story? Have you ever played this game at all or you are just lying through your teeth? It's either one of those. Because this is NOT true. There are Cieth missions you can do after the main story.

Well, I was mostly talking about the fact that you're forced into numerous straight lines filled with nothing but enemies and treasure boxes during the main story, and aren't given any freedom or leeway in terms of what you can do.

I wouldn't know about the post-game since I couldn't stand to beat the game itself, but judging from what Hogfather's said, that was nothing special either.

How about no?

And please. Enough with your whining.

Pffffft, ha ha ha. It's hilarious how condescending you get when someone dares to not like what you like.

What I'm saying is that XIII is a good game on its own. Sure it isn't as stellar as previous titles, but to label it as crap is something I find grossly exaggerated. Is Sonic Generations crap because it isn't as good as Sonic 2?

I couldn't stand to play more than fifteen hours. By today's JRPG standards, it's pretty shit.

[Autosaver]

That's a genuinely awful analogy.

I don't really even like Sonic 2 so comparing it to Generations is downright laughable.

How is this a terrible analogy? People are comparing Final Fantasy XIII to the likes of FFVI, VII, and X. Guess what? Those three previous games mentioned are all classics and loved by the fans. I wonder what else is a classic? Sonic 2! Sonic Generations is a Modern game and features gameplay from the original series yet it wasn't as great as Sonic 3&K.

Your opinion on Sonic 2 is irrelevant. The point being made is that we're taking a Modern game and comparing it to generally received (awesome) classics. So what if you don't like Sonic 2? Put in Sonic 3&K instead.

Another example would be comparing New Super Mario Bros to Super Mario World. I never see anyone say that NSMB is awful because it isn't innovating the 2D Platforming world like World did. Sure it is a complaint, but it is never held as a reason to why the game sucks.

I couldn't stand to play more than fifteen hours. By today's JRPG standards, it's pretty shit.

Isn't the game supposed to take a long time to pick up? I remember reading about it when it first came out.

[Sami]

How is this a terrible analogy? People are comparing Final Fantasy XIII to the likes of FFVI, VII, and X. Guess what? Those three previous games mentioned are all classics and loved by the fans. I wonder what else is a classic? Sonic 2! Sonic Generations is a Modern game and features gameplay from the original series yet it wasn't as great as Sonic 3&K.

Your opinion on Sonic 2 is irrelevant. The point being made is that we're taking a Modern game and comparing it to generally received (awesome) classics. So what if you don't like Sonic 2? Put in Sonic 3&K instead.

Another example would be comparing New Super Mario Bros to Super Mario World. I never see anyone say that NSMB is awful because it isn't innovating the 2D Platforming world like World did. Sure it is a complaint, but it is never held as a reason to why the game sucks.

It's more like comparing Sonic Heroes to any one of the classics; one sucks and the other doesn't. Beyond that, both New Super Mario Bros. and Sonic Generations actually hold up on their own compared to other platformers of their time; something XIII doesn't do at all.

Isn't the game supposed to take a long time to pick up? I remember reading about it when it first came out.

So just because the game gets better around the 25-hour mark, I should forgive an entire day's worth of abysmal gameplay and story?

Persona 3 had me captivated within

Persona 4 has one of your best friends get kidnapped and almost murdered by the... fourth hour, I believe. Take that how you will.

Tales of the Abyss was interesting for a while, but really grabbed me by the tenth hour.

Tales of Graces f had an incredibly huge plot moment by the second hour, and was a steady incline from there with several other wham moments interspersed at every few hours.

Final Fantasy XIII was shit for fifteen hours straight "BUT DON'T WORRY IT GETS BETTER AFTER TEN MORE HOU-", mm. Sorry, no.

[Autosaver]

It's more like comparing Sonic Heroes to any one of the classics; one sucks and the other doesn't. Beyond that, both New Super Mario Bros. and Sonic Generations actually hold up on their own compared to other platformers of their time; something XIII doesn't do at all.

Sonic Generations doesn't suck though. The point being made is while great, it has flaws that the originals didn't have. Also, NSMB besides its level design, it really doesn't hold up compared to other platformers such as Rayman Origins.

I've heard a ton of good things about XIII from people, and the only time I ever hear that it is trash and it did nothing good is on here. There has to be a reason why it has great critic reception along with fan reception on sites such as Metacritic.

Also about those Tales games.. are they really that good? I've heard that they're good but they're not anything spectacular (I keep hearing this more and more after each new game, I heard that the games seem to not do anything new?).

[Candescence]

Regardless, you can scratch out Xenoblade if you want. Instead, I can talk about how Chrono Trigger (released in 1995) makes XIII look incredibly poor, if you'd prefer.

So seconding this one. Chrono Trigger is pretty much my favorite Square RPG and I consider it superior to pretty much every Final Fantasy game (except maybe VI), and I am utterly aggravated that they wasted the whole time travel thing on XIII-2 rather than making another Chrono game.

Granted, Chrono Cross was a terrible sequel to Trigger, but it was a decent game in its own right, still way better than XIII and XIII-2, and actually tried to do something unique with its battle system (though they shouldn't have tried to make 40+ playable characters).

Honestly, I don't get the FFVII hype. From what I've gathered all this time, the main reason everyone holds FFVII to such esteem is because it was the first 'mainstream' JRPG, made the jump to 3D successfully, and had all those fancy FMVs. Oh, and Aeris died. Why the hell does everyone hold that game up as the gold standard?

Edited August 4, 2012 by Masaru Daimon

[Sami]

Sonic Generations doesn't suck though. The point being made is while great, it has flaws that the originals didn't have. Also, NSMB besides its level design, it really doesn't hold up compared to other platformers such as Rayman Origins.

Level design is absolutely essential to the quality of a platformer, though. I'm not a Mario fan, so I didn't care for it myself, but it's still quite good by platforming standards.

Sonic Generations doesn't suck, yeah. It's my favorite Sonic game, personally, but yeah, it's got flaws the classics don't have. Final Fantasy XIII is just a bad game on its own merits.

I've heard a ton of good things about XIII from people, and the only time I ever hear that it is trash and it did nothing good is on here.

Really? Really? Dude, where have you been?

There has to be a reason why it has great critic reception along with fan reception on sites such as Metacritic.

Critics - Hype and production values.

Fans - Pfft, what are you talking about? The fanbase is almost as decisively split as the Sonic fanbase.

Also about those Tales games.. are they really that good? I've heard that they're good but they're not anything spectacular (I keep hearing this more and more after each new game, I heard that the games seem to not do anything new?).

They're made with relatively low budgets, so they aren't fantastic in the visuals department. That's pretty much why critics don't care as much about them. As far as story and gameplay goes, however, they're absolutely fantastic. The characters are always really endearing and the series has come to be known for how good it is at taken common tropes and dissecting them. Again, I direct you to how Tales of the Abyss handled cloning.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Dissident

[Conando]

I was going to try and say something but, I'm filled with an indescribable rage due to Ming Ming Love denying Xenoblade Chronicles is about 1 million times better than FF XIII and its sequel. Shit, I'd wager a bet that it's the best Japanese developed RPG this entire generation, and it was done without spending 6 goddamn years and breaking the bank.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Crow T. Robot

[Candescence]

I was going to try and say something but, I'm filled with an indescribable rage due to Ming Ming Love denying Xenoblade Chronicles is about 1 million times better than FF XIII and its sequel. Shit, I'd wager a bet that it's the best Japanese developed RPG this entire generation, and it was done without spending 6 goddamn years and breaking the bank.

Well, if you're considering just consoles. There have been some absolutely fantastic RPGs on the DS, after all.

[Conando]

I'm talking consoles but, I'd even say period. I can't say I've played everything that's out there though, a lot but, not everything. It isn't even a debate on whether it's better than Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2, though. It flat out is.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Crow T. Robot

[Xenos]

Honestly, I don't get the FFVII hype. From what I've gathered all this time, the main reason everyone holds FFVII to such esteem is because it was the first 'mainstream' JRPG, made the jump to 3D successfully, and had all those fancy FMVs. Oh, and Aeris died. Why the hell does everyone hold that game up as the gold standard?

I've played it, (And very recently, this year.) And for what I can say about it, it's a great game with a good soundtrack, likable characters, and a fun battle system.

It's just bogged down because well, it's dated and has aged to shit.

Although putting it on a high pedestal is pretty dumb either way.

[Sami]

^Yeah, I had the same experience. VII's got a great story and a fantastic soundtrack, but it's aged about as gracefully as Solid Snake.

It's the perfect example of a game that desperately needs a remake, really. It would be a lot of fun today if the translation wasn't so poor and literally everything about it wasn't terribly dated.

[Candescence]

Even the FMVs are dated as fuck. That's how dated FFVII is. Hell, most 3D games that gen are dated as hell. 2D games, on the other hand, just got prettier, and most of them have aged very gracefully (Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, especially). FFVI also had a great story, fantastic characters (and an antagonist who is so much superior to Sephiroth) and a fun battle system, but its visuals aged so, so much better.

Well, unless you got the PS1 version, which had the horrible loading times and the cringeworthy FMVs.

[Conando]

The thing about FF VI is that it was at the end of the 2D age, which certainly aged much better than the early age of 3D games. I didn't play FF VII until I was older, and had a hard time taking it seriously due to how bad it looked. I was a kid back then, so don't kick my ass! I still find Cloud's pipe cleaner arms hilarious, though.

[pppp]

I've heard a ton of good things about XIII from people, and the only time I ever hear that it is trash and it did nothing good is on here. There has to be a reason why it has great critic reception along with fan reception on sites such as Metacritic.

I'll use a great example that everyone here will understand: it's kinda like Sonic 4 being critically acclaimed even though it's quite different when it comes to the fanbase.

I'm in touch with the Final Fantasy fanbase so let me sum it up for you: Half the fanbase hates FFXIII and half of that half prefers XIII-2 because of its "improvements". The other half that loves XIII is also divided into those that didn't like the new direction in XIII-2 and those that love both games.

The FF fanbase can be even more split on games than this one at times

Edited August 4, 2012 by pppp

[Autosaver]

Sonic 4 is NOT critically acclaimed.

eally? Really? Dude, where have you been?

The internet? Youtube, Square Enix Fan Forums, etc

Also, as linked earlier, the fan metacritic rating (Based on almost 2000 votes!) has it as generally favorable.

While people do have the "It isn't as good as previous Final Fantasy games, losing the series touch", it isn't regarded as trash. Well, at least XIII. I know some people got worried once -2 came out and -3 is being announced.

Fans - Pfft, what are you talking about? The fanbase is almost as decisively split as the Sonic fanbase.

Not really. I mean, almost everyone can agree that games like Sonic 4 are pure Dimps crap.

They're made with relatively low budgets, so they aren't fantastic in the visuals department. That's pretty much why critics don't care as much about them. As far as story and gameplay goes, however, they're absolutely fantastic. The characters are always really endearing and the series has come to be known for how good it is at taken common tropes and dissecting them. Again, I direct you to how Tales of the Abyss handled cloning.

Graphics have never made a game, and a lot of the Tales titles appeared on weaker platforms where amazing graphics shouldn't be expected.

What I find funny is that some people want Final Fantasy Versus XIII to die because apparently "Square Enix lost their touch" a long time ago. This is the only Final Fantasy game I was looking forward too and it has EVERYTHING previous games had. Airships, world travel, and more? And people want it to die?!

Oh, and Versus XIII actually looks like it could be something other RPGs would want to go after. The new rich combat made by the team that made the critically acclaimed Kingdom Hearts series is what I want to play. Think about it. Those Kingdom Hearts explorable worlds with many secrets and hidden areas fit into a Final Fantasy game - with no restrictions! Let alone the characters and cutscenes shown so far looking badass, I want it.

While I can agree titles like Xenoblade and The Last Story are leagues ahead of Final Fantasy, I can't agree that this pushes Final Fantasy in the crap zone. Average or at least decent? Yes. Sure it isn't perfect, and sure it took away a ton of magic that previous titles had, but it is still an OK title on its own.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Autosaver

[Teoskaven]

The problem i have with Versus, the Fabula Nova Crystallis and the FF recent titles in general is the fact of "betting all on the graphics", making it all "realistic"; i really prefer much artistic and draw-styled rpg, like the Tales of series. And in a certain way, even the FF series was going in that direction (FFVII for istance has manga-like artwork, and the two Dissidia are also less graphical and more draw-style). Sadly, now Square only wants to do the best graphic ever putting that in the center of the creation process and the rest of the game's part floating around it. Such a shame, for the great possibilities that could have been done in less time.

Anyway, i can safely say that this upcoming title (FFXIII-3 or whatever will be called) is in production because of the fans; Nomura, Kitase and the rest of the gang were genious to do a shitty ending for XIII-2, because they knew fans would have outraged and demand for more just to be happy.

It's pure diabolical genious, a Pandora's Box opened by the fan themselves. For now i will be on the safe side of the edge, waiting to see how this will turn out.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Teoskaven