How can Sonic sell better?

[Winston]

It's obvious guys.

Aliens. Sonic Colors 2 would put Sonic right where he needs to be.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Winston

[Scar]

Have the next Sonic game built around a mysterious, extremely powerful new hedgehog, have classic Sonic return, and create a huge marketing campaign for the game. The main cast will be:

- Sonic (classic and modern)

- Shadow

- The mysterious powerful hedgehog

Classic and modern versions of Tails and Knuckles will be the only supporting characters.

There is no need to bring back Classic Sonic again.

There is no need to introduce another hedgehog, we have 4 already. If there must be another character, make it a totally new species.

Furthermore the story need not be over-the-top dramatic or anywhere near the kind of tone 06 had.

Have classic Sonic, modern Sonic and Shadow the only playable characters.

- Modern Sonic will have his current Generations gameplay

- Classic Sonic will have classic gameplay

- Shadow will have his ShTH/06 gameplay

Modern needs to be better than Gens. No boost, reworked mechanics and expanded level design.

Classic Sonic need not exist at all

Shadow, if playable should be as far away from that gameplay as physically possible. More like Sonic but with higher acceleration/slipperier handling because of jet-skates and other differences. Levels are mostly the same, but maybe have a different objective or something (same set of levels so as not to waste too much time on different assets.

Call the game "Sonic Adventure 3: The Ultimate Enemy." Make it exclusive to a Nintendo platform. Create a special collectors edition.

2 strikes here.

Firstly. no reference to the Adventures. Especially not a tag-line of "SA3", its cheap, the Adventure Saga ended with Shadow's game or S06, which was basically SA1 but much, much worse ('cept for the lovely soundtrack)

Secondly, why Nintendo exclusive? Why limit the pool of options? In order for the game to sell well, sell it on every available platform (within reason). So PS3/4, Xbox 360/neXtbox, WiiU (the Wii is obscolete for all intents and purposes) and of course the PC. Maybe have a Vita/3DS version if necessary. The Vita could probably handle a visually diluted Console port, not sure about the 3DS.

[Johnny Boy]

There is no need to bring back Classic Sonic again.

There is no need to introduce another hedgehog, we have 4 already. If there must be another character, make it a totally new species.

Furthermore the story need not be over-the-top dramatic or anywhere near the kind of tone 06 had.

Have classic Sonic, modern Sonic and Shadow the only playable characters.

Modern needs to be better than Gens. No boost, reworked mechanics and expanded level design.

Classic Sonic need not exist at all

Shadow, if playable should be as far away from that gameplay as physically possible. More like Sonic but with higher acceleration/slipperier handling because of jet-skates and other differences. Levels are mostly the same, but maybe have a different objective or something (same set of levels so as not to waste too much time on different assets.

2 strikes here.

Firstly. no reference to the Adventures. Especially not a tag-line of "SA3", its cheap, the Adventure Saga ended with Shadow's game or S06, which was basically SA1 but much, much worse ('cept for the lovely soundtrack)

Secondly, why Nintendo exclusive? Why limit the pool of options? In order for the game to sell well, sell it on every available platform (within reason). So PS3/4, Xbox 360/neXtbox, WiiU (the Wii is obscolete for all intents and purposes) and of course the PC. Maybe have a Vita/3DS version if necessary. The Vita could probably handle a visually diluted Console port, not sure about the 3DS.

[Debug Ring]

Might I ask if Generations did sold as much as Secret ring or Black knight? It seems likely but everyone I know who owns a Wii has either one or both of the story book games.

[Scar]

You do know he was joking right?

[sonfan1984]

I thought it was clearly obvious he was joking.

[Badnik Mechanic]

How to make Sonic games sell better, even though all things considered I don't think they're selling too badly

Sega has an image problem:

I think Sega is a good company, certainly a lot nicer than other game companies and more user friendly than other companies, I don't think Sega has ever had a 'mega-man gate' or a DLC on disk issue, a mass effect 3 ending, or anything else like paid for servers or other crap like that.

However... Sega has an image problem, it's seen as being kiddy and a maker of poor products.

Is this thought justified? To an extent yes. For the past 6 years, Sega has had movie licenses with Marvel and several other studios, making low quality games which are not very good. Virtua Tennis games have also come under fire for having numerous bugs and issues, the brown world of Golden Axe Beast Rider and least we forget, the PS3 version of Bayonetta which should have been delayed as apposed to released in the state it was. Even the recent ports of classic games all have some major problems with them.

Add onto that howlers like Sonic 06, the werehog sections in unleashed, Shadows game and the kiddy bore fest that is Mario & Sonic.... Segas image is not that great.

On the other hand you have... Valkyria Chronicles, Yakuza, Binary Domain, Virtua Fighter, the Dreamcast titles, Sonic Generations and Sonic Colours.

Heres the problem. if people see a new game from a company like Capcom, Bioware, Platinum Games, Konami or From Software, chances are they'll buy it because of the company name alone, this tends not to happen so much with Sega, whilst it's reputation and relationship with fans is one of the best out there, it is quite well known for making not so great games. Sorry, but it is.

Sega absolutely needs to change this image, it's harming their business tramendously, people see Sega on the box and they're not as quick to buy the game anymore, but it's not just the name... it also links in with...

Sega needs to advertise games other than Sonic.

This has been discussed at large But it ties in with the issue of Segas good games not being bought either. Sega never seem to announce or advertise any game which isn't Sonic. This is not only bloody stupid but it's harming their business. Why didn't Binary Domain, Yakuza 3, 4, Dead Souls, Renergade Ops or any other Sega game (good or bad) get any kind of advertising of any kind? This is crazy, you have some absolutely cracking games that could give your company a big boost in popularity and notoriety for making a quality product... and not a soul knows about them!

Look at Anarchy Reigns, that is setting up to be one hell of a fun game... yet nobody outside of this forum seem to know it exists! WHY!? Binary Domain had some decent DLC packs added to XBLA and PSN, no announcement made. They never advertise or announce anything thats not Sonic related.

Aliens Infestation was released on the DS back in October, again... no advertising for it, it wasn't at any videogame event shows (not at gamefest, pax, gamescom or any other event), yet many who have played it have called it the last great game on the Nintendo DS. Why did this game, which is using a movie license not get any publicity?

This is crazy, promoting your other good games would get people buying your other games, people associate names with quality, be it good or bad, so start promoting your good stuff and not just the popular stuff.

Axe certain titles, bring back old titles

Why is Virtua Tennis still being made when it's notorious for being... buggy... slow.... boring... boring... boring... in that order? Why are they not digging out Virtua Cop? Why is Alex Kidd still begging on the streets, did Blaze Fielding get hit by government police cuts? These are names which would sell on their name alone! It's a crime that they're not being used.

This again links in with company image. You get people playing your games and they enjoy them, they'll come back for more.

===============

I'm gonna stop now. Not even mentioned changes to Sonic yet. Mainly because I know that they would never happen and it would cause an uproar, but basically it would involve scrapping nearly every character, scrapping several outside licenses including archie comics.

But I think if Sega actually took the time to change itself, it would find it's entire product line selling more.

[tenchibr]

To be honest, at this rate, SEGA might not last another 20 years, but Sonic can if, AND ONLY IF, Nintendo buys it off of SEGA.

In fact, I want SEGA to be around forever, but I hope if Plan A doesn't work, that Sonic Team is bought by Nintendo. The only problem is the limited hardware choices, but I don't see any other publisher that could take of Sonic as well as Ninty.

[Chooch]

Unleashed, Colors and Generations were virtually the same game but with minor gameplay tweaks here and there and different levels.

Ugh. I am tired of people saying this because it still doesn't make sense to me. It never ever fucking will.

They play incredibly differently and all have almost entirely different feels to them. If this wasn't the case then I wouldn't enjoy Generations and Unleashed and think that Colors was mediocre. I would like all three or dislike all three.

Unleashed has QTEs, hub worlds, side missions, interaction with NPCs that goes beyond "Here is a really vague description on how to get this Red Star Ring", etc. Colors and Generations have absolutely none of this. Colors is a primarily 2D game with power ups in a similar vein to the Mario series. Those are not minor gameplay tweaks at all whatsoever and it's ridiculous to even implicate such a thing.

Unleashed (although not as much as Generations) actually has meaningful 3D sections with platforming and multiple pathways whereas every 3D section in Sonic Colors requires minimal input from the player and more or less boils down to Sonic 4 style "Look Ma, no hands!", "The game's playing itself, Jon" auto-pilot bullshit that I simply can not stand. Oh yeah and these portions also extend into the 2D sections too whenever you activate a Wisp power. Fun.

Really, these games are all radically different. The differences are not minor at all.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Chooch

[Stritix]

I would say try something different. Unleashed, Colors and Generations were virtually the same game but with minor gameplay tweaks here and there and different levels.

The sad thing is, you are completely right. It wouldn't be such a big deal for me if they actually bothered to give each game a new look, but they don't.

Apart from the different HUD's, they look like they're from the exact same game. I showed a friend Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations to get him into the newer games, and he actually thought that Sonic Generations was just DLC for Sonic Unleashed.

[Scar]

The sad thing is, you are completely right. It wouldn't be such a big deal for me if they actually bothered to give each game a new look, but they don't.

*vids*

Apart from the different HUD's, they look like they're from the exact same game. I showed a friend Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations to get him into the newer games, and he actually thought that Sonic Generations was just DLC for Sonic Unleashed.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Scar

[Stritix]

What do you mean "new look"? Its called an art style. Best to keep it consistant. The random sporadic changes in art style from SA1 to SA2 to Heroes to Shadow to 06 meant there was no visual consistancy.

If not art direction, then what kind of changes should be made to the look of the games?

[Nepenthe]

What assets were significantly reused throughout the entirety of each of the modern games? I'm not talking about things like Sonic's model and the like, but rather level assets. Forgive me for saying, but Generations' Green Hill looks absolutely nothing like Windmill Isle Day and thus you could not pay me to say they were from the same game. I chalk that anecdote up to ignorance of the games on your friend's part.

[Scar]

Reusing the same graphics over and over doesn't give something 'visual consistancy'. They could keep the overall style, but each game with its own look. You know, when I buy a new game I expect a new game, not a game reusing 90% of things from the previous.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, considering that they MUST have used different textures and assets in order to construct stages that look very different to those from Unleashed. Green Hill and its checkered mud probably required new textures. Chemical Plant probably required new textures, we know for a fact that Sky Sanctuary had new textures, Seaside Hill probably reused a few textures and assets ASR, City Escape and Speed Highway probably shared a few assets and maybe borrowed here and there from Skyscraper Scamper, Rooftop Run probably did use the same assets but managed to make it look very different from the original by upping the contrast and saturation, Crisis City possibly borrowed textures here and there from 06, but they also probably used newer, better assets too to help it gel with the current artistic style a little bit better, Planet Wisp must have used higher res textures and higher poly models than its Wii counterpart.

Honestly, your friend mistook the two for being from the same game probably because he or she didn't know much about the series beforehand and the fact that the gameplay is very similar. Other than that, Green Hill and Windmill Isle look nothing alike.

[SilentDoom]

Reusing the same graphics over and over doesn't give something 'visual consistancy'. They could keep the overall style, but each game with its own look. You know, when I buy a new game I expect a new game, not a game reusing 90% of things from the previous.

Except it isn't. Compare Unleashed's Rooftop Run to Generations' Rooftop Run:

The Generations one is a lot brighter and a lot more vivid. And that's not even half the story though. The two use the same engine, but Generations improves upon its predecessor's controls and mechanics. Low speed control is a lot more manageable, high speed control feels more fluid, jumping feels a little less stiff and you have the obvious change of the Spindash Drift which is way better than the Drift in Unleashed. Infact really, the only thing the two share are a graphics engine. Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 almost did the same thing. Sonic 2 was extremely similar to Sonic 1 visually, just more vivid. As is the case with Generations. Heck even the Galaxy games did the same thing.

[Soniman]

They play incredibly differently and all have almost entirely different feels to them. If this wasn'Unleashed (although not as much as Generations) actually has meaningful 3D sections with platforming and multiple pathways whereas every 3D section in Sonic Colors requires minimal input from the player and more or less boils down to Sonic 4 style "Look Ma, no hands!", "The game's playing itself, Jon" auto-pilot bullshit that I simply can not stand. Oh yeah and these portions also extend into the 2D sections too whenever you activate a Wisp power. Fun.

Really, these games are all radically different. The differences are not minor at all.

Quickly butting in here, in regards to the wisps, that statement is only really relevant in regards to the rocket and laser wisp, and both those wisps tend to last at most 5-7 seconds anyway the others generally give you a good amount of control to play around with.

[Diogenes]

Unleashed has QTEs, hub worlds, side missions, interaction with NPCs that goes beyond "Here is a really vague description on how to get this Red Star Ring", etc. Colors and Generations have absolutely none of this.

But the QTEs are the only thing in that list that have to do with the core gameplay mechanics, the actual in-level gameplay, not the framing gameplay.

Colors is a primarily 2D game with power ups in a similar vein to the Mario series. Those are not minor gameplay tweaks at all whatsoever and it's ridiculous to even implicate such a thing.

Colors is the most different of the 3, but aside from the powerups it's basically the same gameplay, just with more 2D.

Unleashed (although not as much as Generations) actually has meaningful 3D sections with platforming and multiple pathways whereas every 3D section in Sonic Colors requires minimal input from the player and more or less boils down to Sonic 4 style "Look Ma, no hands!", "The game's playing itself, Jon" auto-pilot bullshit that I simply can not stand.

I really have trouble taking seriously the suggestion that Unleashed isn't "playing itself" considering how much of it can be completed with little more than holding boost. Like, I'll admit that it has more going on in its 3D sections than Colors does, but when you can beat most of its levels without even touching the control stick...

And re: Unleashed and Generations looking the same, aside from the similar art style and common objects (Sonic, springs, ramps, etc) being reused, they look as different as can reasonably be expected. Unless you're complaining that they aren't arbitrarily redesigning every object with every game I have no idea what your complaint is supposed to be.

[Solkia]

so

uh

how about those sales?

[Kuzu]

Ok, I'll be the first to admit that the Unleashed gameplay is limited in terms of gameplay, but to be honest it looks about the same as you'd expect a sequel to look from its predecessor. The problem is more in the gameplay than in the game itself, we can't really expect Generations to look really that different from Unleashed considering its based on the same mechanic(boooooooosh). So really, once they find a way to rework the boost, I'm pretty sure that notion would fade quickly.

[KHCast]

It's obvious gameplay and all that is a slight issue to sales guys....But that's not what will sell. It's obvious we need CHAO GARDENS!!!!! That will save sonic!

[-blank-]

Nothing is going to get me to believe that Generations' Green Hill Zone could have belonged anywhere in Unleashed. Green Hill Zone is fairly whimsical, with bright, vivid coloring (and checkerboard ground, let's not forget that). While Unleashed stages are more or less sort of realistic (not to the extent of 06 of course, but you get the idea), and a stage like Green Hill Zone would look completely out of place. Actually, Generations' Rooftop Run doesn't quite fit in with Unleashed either, for reasons stated above.

[Sega DogTagz]

I think games like Colors and Generations will have a sizable impact on future sales, once they are allowed to trickle down to the bargain bin.

Sega made it a point to enforce quality control recently, and with that came the removal of games like 06 on the store shelves (I actually still see them there, but not as much as I used too). With these entry level priced games gone, we’ll be forced to wait to allow better games to age and fall into the category. Once there, quality brand recognition will start to rebuild (imagine picking up generations for 5 -10 bucks. Anyone would be pleased with that) and people that were unwilling to go in at the full price today, may well consider doing so down the line.

[T-Min]

I can't tell if you're serious. You just run in straight lines in the 3D sections, and the 2D sections are very generic. There's nothing unique about the wisps. They're basically Mario power ups.

The 3-D sections aren't very substantial, I'll give you that, but I don't see what's "generic" about the 2-D sections at all. I really enjoyed them. And how are they Mario power-ups? Aside from the drill, how are the Wisps even vaguely similar to anything seen in Mario? You still haven't explained that.

Oh, and for the record, Unleashed, Generations and Colors are obviously different in a lot of ways, despite sharing the same general gameplay style; visuals are, indeed, one of them. Honestly, even if I wasn't a fan, I could probably look at different levels from these games and be able to tell that they're from different games.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Trash Boat

[pppp]

I feel sad saying this, but i think Sonic will never have the high sales of the past. During the dark days(2002-2008, not counting handheld games) Sonic stopped being a big franchise in gaming because of people giving up caring. Because young kids didn't grow up with anyone introducing them to the series(Yes i know there are exceptions but not enough since the sales are low),the series does not have anyone left except us old fans. Even if they do reboot the series, it still won't matter because nobody cares anymore. It's kinda like Spyro: Yeah Skylanders was somewhat fun but nobody cares about Spyro anymore.

[Alice Twilight]

Very good question.

But Sonic just isn't 'in' at the moment. It's not what kids are into with what today has to offer.

I consider this the 'First Person shooter' age of gaming.

Since that's what sells today.

Not even Mega man could come out on top if Legends 3 got released.

It's obvious gameplay and all that is a slight issue to sales guys....But that's not what will sell. It's obvious we need CHAO GARDENS!!!!! That will save sonic!

No thanks. I want to play Sonic, not tamagotchi on the big screen.

Chao garden should be its own thing.