How can Sonic sell better?

[Tornado]

I don't remember this?

Come now. Adding on to what Nepenthe said, you've been here long enough to know that the popular opinions of this fanbase are cyclical; and pretty much always (at least in my experience) have been.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Tornado

[Soniman]

When did this happen?

Umm, plenty of times? Maybe you should stop boosting around and try looking around!

Haha, god I'm funny.

Edited May 12, 2012 by The Groosenator

[Diogenes]

Umm, plenty of times? Maybe you should stop boosting around and try looking around!

Pit, pit, invisible wall, visible wall, pit...hm.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Oh, I remember a-plenty. I feel like this is the general context of the conversation whenever I enter into a topic involving Sonic's future, especially topics focused on the story and/or characters. I say we need a better story and more character development, as well as for playable characters to become the norm again, and the usual rebuttals from various people are:

"Sonic doesn't work with a good or serious story, so there is no point in asking for better than what we have."

"Alternate characters take time away from development to implement, and everything needs to be focused on Sonic's gameplay."

"How can you think of asking for other characters when Sega needs Sonic needs to be perfect first? Once Sonic is perfect, Tails et. al can come in."

"If we add characters, it takes away from Sonic's screentime, which is bad because the series is called Sonic The Hedgehog"

or as I've said here, "If Sega is allowed to go in the opposite direction, they will make the mistakes they made in the Adventure era, ergo we should stay the course."

It's quite annoying.

And I can DEFINITELY vouch for this, having been around that period for a long ass time that I still cling to that memory as a reminder of where we once were.

All in all, I can't really say much very differently from what everyone else has said. That, and we also need some stronger advertisement. I remember how they advertised ShTH and actually managed to do somewhat decently, only to make absolutely little effort in advertising Sonic 06 and sold so little during that time before finally limping over the 1 million mark. Sonic Unleashed got some decent advertisement and managed to sell 2 million units, while I don't even recall how the hell they advertised Colors.

Generations being the anniversary game definitely got some good advertisement, so it managed to shoot past 1 million units.

So, yeah, that's my take.

[Law]

Sonic Adventure 3.

[sonfan1984]

Sonic Adventure 3.

And that's how Sonic 4 is made.

[Diogenes]

"Alternate characters take time away from development to implement, and everything needs to be focused on Sonic's gameplay."

"How can you think of asking for other characters when Sega needs Sonic needs to be perfect first? Once Sonic is perfect, Tails et. al can come in."

I don't think these necessarily run counter to being ambitious. Like, yeah, I think they need to make some serious changes and I think they'd benefit from some big moves, but they also have to have their shit together gameplaywise and splitting their attention between multiple characters/gameplay styles is not necessarily a good move.

[neezTHEhuman]

Seaside Hill was definitely a pleasant surprise with its truly alternate routes like the go kart/turtle platform split and shortcuts like boosting on water at the beginning to the cannon. In future I would like the routes to intertwine or be connected a lot more because right now once you find the quickest path there really is no reason to tread the other paths agin. Accessing shortcuts/alternative routes should not be done by quicktime events like jumping on a floating grind rail (mod Speed Highway) or jumping mid boost and then air boosting through a floating multi colored ring because these are easy to miss and tricky to pull off. Also make the levels so that you can backtrack to any part of the level, so less scripted events like giant Fish in GHZ, no boost ramps that send you flying over bottomless pits and an adjustable camera system needs to b reintroduced. The reason for backtracking is so that exploration becomes an important part of the gameplay and therefore instead of just hiding a few red rings bring back the giant rings from S3&K that transport to bonus stages with chaos emeralds as the incentive. Finally hide the giant rings out of site like behind breakable walls for example.

Edited May 12, 2012 by neezTHEhuman

[SoniClub]

Increase the difficulty as well, I found it hilarious that Sonic said that no adventure is fun if it's too easy in an incredibly easy game.

I'd actually disagree, not necessarily making them a heck of a lot easier, but I think it's something that we as Sonic fans take for granted.

Sonic is not your average platformer, it's really quite individual with its speed/racing gameplay and, while it seems odd to us, isn't something most gamers are used to. I mean, every person I introduce to Sonic, even if they're gaming veterans, seemingly has trouble with the momentum mechanics (even Sonic 4 lulz) and the speedy responses required, especially the newer titles. If you think about it, it doesn't quite fit into a specific genre that people are used to. And i'm sure many will agree with me on this, 'casual gamers' just seem to suck at Sonic so bad.

It might just be the people I know, but I also notice that in a lot of these playthroughs from sites like IGN they seem to really suck at the basic Sonic mechanics. Boosting into walls and such; weird seeing as their jobs are playing games.

In titles like Generations it was very easy to complete the game and to get S ranks, but to actually play it well/speed run it is quite a challenge. I'm not saying make them any easier, but there's certainly things that could make the series more open to newbies.

On that note, Sonic Heroes is probably one of the most user-friendly games of the 3D era. Forcing you into the right formations, characters telling you what to do constantly , and while the games ranking system is pretty evil, it sold really really well. It not only appealed to its target-audience in style/design but also with the gameplay. It's one of the only games I can talk about with my friends and they'll all know what i'm talking about. Everyone my age seemed to have it.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Wordy

[Nepenthe]

I don't think these necessarily run counter to being ambitious. Like, yeah, I think they need to make some serious changes and I think they'd benefit from some big moves, but they also have to have their shit together gameplaywise and splitting their attention between multiple characters/gameplay styles is not necessarily a good move.

They run counter to being ambitious because- in the context that they were used- they're arguments that opened up the floor to moving the goalposts. For the longest, I was told that Sega needs a critically-acclaimed Sonic game in order to have a foundation upon which to create alternate characters, which I think is a fair argument; fine. I waited. Colors and Generations hit the scene, the gameplay is solid and fun, the critics like it, people online are getting into Sonic again, and now I'm being told that Sonic's gameplay has to be "perfect" before I can have the privilege of playing as others, e.g., whatever the current supporter deems to be "perfect."

At this rate, the day is never coming when it will be "okay" for alternate characters to come back because other characters are still deemed by a vocal-enough population to be an inherent problem rather than a scapegoat. Subsequently, this belief makes them privy to arguing with supporters on extremist grounds, slippery slopes, and strawmen, e.g., the moment you let other characters play, alternate gameplay styles will come back, and those are always unfun, thus the Sonic games will suffer, or some similar train of thought. I am always put in the position of arguing down from an extreme position I don't actually hold in order to assure people that bringing back playable characters isn't going to be the start of the apocalypse. It's ridiculous. At some point, Sega has got to take the plunge, and I'm not convinced that day is as far off as most people think it is.

Here you go <3

I am also sick and tired of people posting the Sonic 06 box art like it's an actual argument. Stop it.

[T-Min]

To me, they don't really need to take risks. All they really need to do is just keep making great, high quality games and strive to make games even better than Generations. They've already got a great gameplay style that has evolved a lot since Unleashed, and all they really need to do is keep evolving it and expanding upon it. If they want to change things up, though, the Wisps went a long way to keep Colors interesting without having it deviate too much from the main gameplay style. Gimmicks like that - that is, ones that are well-integrated into and even add to the core gameplay - are the way to go. Regardless, if they keep making great games, Sonic's reputation will improve, reviews will get better and there will be more word of mouth; thus, more sales.

Also, Nepenthe, the guy was just joking. :I (And I'm pretty sure Zonik was too)

[Nepenthe]

Also, Nepenthe, the guy was just joking. :I (And I'm pretty sure Zonik was too)

Even if they were joking (I know they were), people will actually do that as a serious rebuttal when frankly I'm tired of hearing about the game in any capacity. And considering we're not really allowed to talk about SA3 anymore, I figured it was as good a time as ever to let my grievances with "lol Sonic 06 = SA3" be known.

[Stritix]

^And the music.

Music is pretty mediocre-bad right now. There hasn't been anything memorable or catchy for years.

Edited May 12, 2012 by -L-

[sonfan1984]

Music is pretty mediocre-bad right now. There hasn't been anything memorable or catchy for years.

Okay, then which music in your opinion is actually good or memorable to you? I think Generations has a lot of good and memorable remixes from past Sonic games.

Edited May 12, 2012 by sonfan1984

[mysha_the_bat]

What would make me buy sonic more is less 2d, don't get me wrong i like the 2d games as much as the next fan but it's gotten kinda old now. SG was supposed to be the perfect balance of 2d and 3d but 2d not only was in the classic levels but took up half of each modern level as well.

This is why people ask for an sa3 cos sa1 and sa2 had the full 3d gameplay where u could run left right forward back etc even the 3d sections in modern gameplay you can't really do that because the camera only let's you look in 1 direction and it lacks the free roam ability which gives you the chance to explore more, plus there was the long stories lately sega been really lazy with the stories, SG was way too short, with a long story comes more levels missions and extra replay value.

Since sa2 we have'nt had that free roam ability or proper 3d sonic if we had that gameplay again and stories maybe reintroduce it to the next generation of fans who have never known the joy of playing sa2 then sonic would definitely sell more.

[Diogenes]

... and now I'm being told that Sonic's gameplay has to be "perfect" before I can have the privilege of playing as others, e.g., whatever the current supporter deems to be "perfect."

Well if you're the kind of person that thinks the Modern gameplay is good enough, yeah, I can't see much reason not to bring in other characters at this point. But if you think the gameplay is one of the things they need to change, it's not unreasonable to want to focus on creating and polishing one new gameplay style and leave the other characters for the next game.

*S4/S'06*

I don't think it breaks down as cleanly as that, considering a lot of '06's problems are the same as or extensions of problems in the Adventure games, which isn't really the case with S4. Plus I think we should be aiming for something better than both "the real Sonic 4" and "the real SA3", anyway.

[Lady Soniko]

Music is pretty mediocre-bad right now. There hasn't been anything memorable or catchy for years.

memorable Sonic tunes in recent games?

Splash Hill

Rooftop Run

Planet Wisp

Tropical Resort

Aquarium Park

Endless Possibilities

Free

not to mention all the remixes in Generations

take your pick, i remember all this music and hum to it daily, not just the classics.

[Rinzler]

Music is pretty mediocre-bad right now. There hasn't been anything memorable or catchy for years.

Quite a few people would disagree with you.

[Nepenthe]

Well if you're the kind of person that thinks the Modern gameplay is good enough, yeah, I can't see much reason not to bring in other characters at this point. But if you think the gameplay is one of the things they need to change, it's not unreasonable to want to focus on creating and polishing one new gameplay style and leave the other characters for the next game.

Assuming I even agreed with you that the modern gameplay needed change, when praytell is this mythical new gameplay style going to come so I can stop complaining about the lack of characters? No one can give me any guarantees thus I'm free to assume- with all of the differences in opinion the online community displays about what needs to be done with the gameplay- that I am forever going to be waiting for that day when playing as Tails becomes okay, because frankly the gameplay is never going to be okay. Someone is always going to be unhappy, thus it's unrealistic to tell me to wait.

I don't think it breaks down as cleanly as that, considering a lot of '06's problems are the same as or extensions of problems in the Adventure games, which isn't really the case with S4. Plus I think we should be aiming for something better than both "the real Sonic 4" and "the real SA3", anyway.

The point of that picture is to highlight the differences in specificity that occur when we define a classic game (something that's been dissected, argued about, and written down for years and years) versus an Adventure game (something that hasn't been pinned down with the same specificity as a classic game because the Adventure titles are schizo and no one in the community cares) as well as the inherently hypocritical statements that come as a result from the differences in classifying each type of title...

I also wanted to counter picture with picture. No seriously, I hate when people do that.

[Stritix]

memorable Sonic tunes in recent games?

Splash Hill

Rooftop Run

Planet Wisp

Tropical Resort

Aquarium Park

Endless Possibilities

Free

not to mention all the remixes in Generations

take your pick, i remember all this music and hum to it daily, not just the classics.

memorable Sonic tunes in recent games?

Splash Hill

Rooftop Run

Planet Wisp

Tropical Resort

Aquarium Park

Endless Possibilities

Free

not to mention all the remixes in Generations

take your pick, i remember all this music and hum to it daily, not just the classics.

Splash Hill, yes. The rest are pretty bad.

[sonfan1984]

Splash Hill, yes. The rest are pretty bad.

Wow. I guess my taste in Sonic music is a whole lot different then yours. :V

[Lady Soniko]

Splash Hill, yes. The rest are pretty bad.

so you think Splash Hill is decent, but all the other proper songs (that aren't just synthesizers) are bad?

wow your logic is somewhat... backwards.

guess its personal preference though so i can't say YOUR WRONG because its a matter of opinion afterall.

[Diogenes]

Assuming I even agreed with you that the modern gameplay needed change, when praytell is this mythical new gameplay style going to come so I can stop complaining about the lack of characters?

[Stritix]

I don't care about the production. The song itself is far more catchy and memorable than the others.

[Old dead account]

I'd actually disagree, not necessarily making them a heck of a lot easier, but I think it's something that we as Sonic fans take for granted.

Sonic is not your average platformer, it's really quite individual with its speed/racing gameplay and, while it seems odd to us, isn't something most gamers are used to. I mean, every person I introduce to Sonic, even if they're gaming veterans, seemingly has trouble with the momentum mechanics (even Sonic 4 lulz) and the speedy responses required, especially the newer titles. If you think about it, it doesn't quite fit into a specific genre that people are used to. And i'm sure many will agree with me on this, 'casual gamers' just seem to suck at Sonic so bad.

It might just be the people I know, but I also notice that in a lot of these playthroughs from sites like IGN they seem to really suck at the basic Sonic mechanics. Boosting into walls and such; weird seeing as their jobs are playing games.