In Support of Humans

[Dr. Mechano]

Yep, the Cyclone, I forgot it! And besides that, technology itself was never said to be bad. Sonic CD had the good futures filled with technology.

Pretty much. The message to Sonic CD wasn't "technology is bad", it was "an imbalance of technology and nature, coupled with neglect of both, is bad."

The bad futures were rustic and ruined- Even the technology was in bad shape. The good futures were a seamless harmony of both- Nature and technology working in tandem.

[redmenace]

Yep. My thoughts about the Sonic games were that technology is good as long as there's respect and sintony for the environment.

[Crystal Kingfisher]

You'll notice I didn't mention Erazor, Shahra, or Merlina, and that's because they aren't human, despite their appearance. (At least I don't think they are- Merlina might be.) Still, I found them all to be well-written and compelling characters too, so if they help my pro-human position, so be it, I guess.

I don't know if Shahra counts as a human or not, but I just couldn't stand her. She annoyed me to no end. I don't know anything about Merlina though because I haven't played Black Knight and never will.

I don't really like most of the human characters in the Sonic games, the only ones I like are Maria and Professor Pickle.

[Dr. Mechano]

I don't really like most of the human characters in the Sonic games, the only ones I like are Maria and Professor Pickle.

No love for Eggman? Aww.

But you like two at least, which should mean that they have some purpose and potential, eh?

Edited May 15, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[Phos]

And yet they were under the supervision of SEGA in the first place. If SEGA didn't want humans, they would have spoken up.

So was SatAM. We're going around in circles.

[DarkOverord]

So was SatAM. We're going around in circles.

SatAM was set in a completly different enviroment to the games though, admittedly, one could argue the same with that cartoon.

[Indigo Rush]

So was SatAM.

Entirely different scenario. Was SatAM ever featured on a mainstream Sonic game? Spinball was meant to be a spinoff, so it does not count. The "Man of the Year" was an ORIGINAL cartoon made to be in the realm of the games. SatAM was created by DiC, who create situations that are never seen or have relation to the games.

We're going around in circles.

And you're saying this on a Sonic forum like it's a bad thing.

I don't see a point in arguing the validity of humans in the games. They're obviously there. Sonic Adventure featured a bunch of humans for the first time, and it was overseen by Naka. So therefore, it's valid and there's no reason to be whining over the use of humans in the games.

Sheesh.

[Dr. Mechano]

So was SatAM. We're going around in circles.

Actually, SatAM had humans too, we have to assume.

Aside from Robotnik and Snively, there was Lazaar the wizard. Explain him.

They may not have appeared all that often, but... they existed. Not that SatAM is in any way valid to the games, but yeah, even it had human presence.

Edited May 16, 2009 by El Gran Gordo

[redmenace]

So was SatAM. We're going around in circles.

There's a difference between SOA and SOJ. You should know what it is, one of them held the origin of the franchise and the other one adapted to their liking. DIC also never placed them in games' realm (it was pretty obvious, I'm sorry for those who never noticed any difference, but it was pretty different) nor did the games ever went that way either. And like it was pointed out, SatAM had three our four humas as well. Humans featured since day one. Eggman was there. Madonna was part of the prototype ideas. Earth and humans are part of the Sonic world since the beginning.

[Dr. Mechano]

There's a difference between SOA and SOJ. You should know what it is, one of them held the origin of the franchise and the other one adapted to their liking. DIC also never placed them in games' realm (it was pretty obvious, I'm sorry for those who never noticed any difference, but it was pretty different) nor did the games ever went that way either. And like it was pointed out, SatAM had three our four humas as well. Humans featured since day one. Eggman was there. Madonna was part of the prototype ideas. Earth and humans are part of the Sonic world since the beginning.

Important to remember is that AoStH/SatAM were not SoA. They were cartoons loosely based on the SoA story. (Although some manuals did tie-ins to this, such as "Princess Sally" in Sonic CD and "roboticized" animal friends in Sonic and Knuckles). The American game story is its own separate storyline from the cartoons... A very inconsistent storyline that fluctuated often.

The classic SoJ story was definitely more consistent overall, which probably explains why it "won" and became the default storyline ever since Sonic Adventure.

[redmenace]

Important to remember is that AoStH/SatAM were not SoA. They were cartoons loosely based on the SoA story. (Although some manuals did tie-ins to this, such as "Princess Sally" in Sonic CD and "roboticized" animal friends in Sonic and Knuckles). The American game story is its own separate storyline from the cartoons... A very inconsistent storyline that fluctuated often.

The classic SoJ story was definitely more consistent overall, which probably explains why it "won" and became the default storyline ever since Sonic Adventure.

What is the American storyline then? From what I've seen in the wikipedia article, SatAM was done under SOA supervision (just like Sonic X was under SOJ supervision). I have no idea about AOSTH, since it says nothing there about it last time I read it.

I think the Japanese version would win regardless of everything else, since it's where it originated from. Even though the movies of LOFTR are more mainstreamed and more known, the true canon is still the books.

Edited May 16, 2009 by redmenace

[Dr. Mechano]

What is the American storyline then? From what I've seen in the wikipedia article, SatAM was done under SOA supervision (just like Sonic X was under SOJ supervision). I have no idea about AOSTH, since it says nothing there about it last time I read it.

SoA supervising it doesn't make it true to the games. SoJ supervised both the Sonic OVA and Sonic X- Would you say those apply to the game storyline? I wouldn't- Both are separate continuities.

In the games, even with SoA's localization, Robotnik was still a happy fat man with blue glasses and colorful cutesy robots. They bothered changing the boxart, sure, but the in-game sprites still feature the Japanese character designs. If they'd gone so far as to change those, maybe they'd have driven their point they were trying to make with the boxart further. Nevertheless, they didn't, and I'm glad they didn't.

As for the SoA story? Like I said- Inconsistent. Most games simply refer to the planet as "the world", with "Mobius" only being used for games like Sonic Spinball, Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, and Sonic Triple Trouble. The manuals also claim Eggman is "turning animals into robots", although obviously, in game the animals are merely placed inside robots. (Even if you want to argue it was roboticization, which is silly, does it make sense that a robotic bunny gets roboticized into a robotic bee? I don't think so.)

The SoA storyline is basically a stripped-down version of the SoJ storyline, with less details, changed concept art, and occasional tie-ins and references to the cartoons ("Princess Sally" in Sonic CD, "Mobius" in a minority of manuals, etc.).

[redmenace]

SoA supervising it doesn't make it true to the games. SoJ supervised both the Sonic OVA and Sonic X- Would you say those apply to the game storyline? I wouldn't- Both are separate continuities.

In the games, even with SoA's localization, Robotnik was still a happy fat man with blue glasses and colorful cutesy robots. They bothered changing the boxart, sure, but the in-game sprites still feature the Japanese character designs. If they'd gone so far as to change those, maybe they'd have driven their point they were trying to make with the boxart further. Nevertheless, they didn't, and I'm glad they didn't.

As for the SoA story? Like I said- Inconsistent. Most games simply refer to the planet as "the world", with "Mobius" only being used for games like Sonic Spinball, Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, and Sonic Triple Trouble. The manuals also claim Eggman is "turning animals into robots", although obviously, in game the animals are merely placed inside robots. (Even if you want to argue it was roboticization, which is silly, does it make sense that a robotic bunny gets roboticized into a robotic bee? I don't think so.)

The SoA storyline is basically a stripped-down version of the SoJ storyline, with less details, changed concept art, and occasional tie-ins and references to the cartoons ("Princess Sally" in Sonic CD, "Mobius" in a minority of manuals, etc.).

Yeah, Eggman and Tails being so different in game triggered me not believing the comics and shows. The robotization is also another that made no sense whatsoever. The other characters as well, the setting, the tone, yeah it was pretty different.

So Mobius was never on the games either, not even in America (or at least the majority). Here in Europe we had none of that sillyness, but I always assumed Mobius was in the American ones, since people like to say SatAM is canon to the American storyline. So not even that eh? Bah, I can't believe how much I discussed this with people online saying it made no sense, when it wasn't true in the first place.

[Roo]

I don't really mind if humans and animals live together in harmony (better than our planet's doing, eh?), but I just hate it when humans are part of the main storyline, even if it's one game.

Elise and Chris are great examples of this. So great, I don't think it even needs explanation.

Of course, there's exceptions to everything. The only humans-involved-with-the-main-storyline I'd accept are the doctor, Maria and Gerald (even though they're dead), and possibly the Commander. He bugs me a bit, but doesn't really get in the way to the point where it's incredibly annoying.

NOTE: I've never played Unleashed, and I don't think it's right to judge someone you don't know (Prof. Pickle, in this case).

[Frozen Nitrogen]

NOTE: I've never played Unleashed, and I don't think it's right to judge someone you don't know (Prof. Pickle, in this case).

(Psst! Judge him unfavourably!)

[Dr. Mechano]

(Psst! Judge him unfavourably!)

Pickle is a smart yet goofy old man, and as a fan of Eggman, I can't help but feel that makes him an awesome character already.

Still, he'd have been cooler with a mustache.

[Flyboy Fox]

I didn't mind Professor Pickle as a character... he was quite an amusing character, even if pretty much a walking eccentric absent-minded professer stereotype.

His name irked me though. I'm not sure why. I know the names aren't supposed to be serious (I mean hey, look at the main cast), but still... it just seemed TOO silly a name, somehow. Perhaps it was just Tails' voice when he mentioned Prof. Pickle for the first time, since I really don't like Tails' current voice.

But yeah, name aside, I didn't mind him at all. Nevertheless, I stand by my view that it really is kinda sad that 99% or more of the world's inhabitants seem to be human. I would have much prefered more animal people.

Since it seems a little late to mix them in seemlessly with the human population, perhaps we could at least see one or two 'furry' towns or villages as well?

[Blazey Firekitty]

I think that one thing that was nice about Rush Adventure, despite it being in another dimension, was that it brought back the presence of non-human NPCs, while doing nothing to negate the presence of human ones.

What's not to like about viking polar bears?

[Flyboy Fox]

Koalas could have been a bit more useful though, instead of just standing in my way and repeating the same lines over and over Accursed koalas.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Koalas could have been a bit more useful though, instead of just standing in my way and repeating the same lines over and over Accursed koalas.

No wonder Blaze is so angry, she has to live with them.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Koalas could have been a bit more useful though, instead of just standing in my way and repeating the same lines over and over Accursed koalas.

I thought it was nice to see that if you're NOT Knuckles and your entire species HASN'T withered away to nothing (or worse than nothing: evil technophiles!), having the job of an Emerald Guardian does actually come with a nice package of assistance and authority and suited courtiers travelling the world helping you out.

Poor old Knux. He gets all the hassle and none of the perks. Instead: a lifetime of crushing loneliness and the certainty of cultural extinction when death finally sinks its grim claws into him.

LOL, doomed.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I thought it was nice to see that if you're NOT Knuckles and your entire species HASN'T withered away to nothing (or worse than nothing: evil technophiles!), having the job of an Emerald Guardian does actually come with a nice package of assistance and authority and suited courtiers travelling the world helping you out.

Poor old Knux. He gets all the hassle and none of the perks. Instead: a lifetime of crushing loneliness and the certainty of cultural extinction when death finally sinks its grim claws into him.

LOL, doomed.

Heh, I guess Shade's pretty much the only bright spot in all that.;;

Well, and maybe Rouge.

[Flyboy Fox]

Oh wow. I feel even more sorry for Knuckles now that I did before.

On topic; Knuckles' history was a good example of showing furry civilisation... but, as I'm sure has been mentioned before, if he's the last of his kind and that's kind of a big deal... where are all the other furries of the species/races/tribes etc who AREN'T the last of their kind? ^^;

[Blazey Firekitty]

Oh wow. I feel even more sorry for Knuckles now that I did before.

On topic; Knuckles' history was a good example of showing furry civilisation... but, as I'm sure has been mentioned before, if he's the last of his kind and that's kind of a big deal... where are all the other furries of the species/races/tribes etc who AREN'T the last of their kind? ^^;

Yeah, it's not as if Sonic, Tails and Amy just sprouted out of the ground like mushrooms!

...Right?

[Thirsty Pocket]

I guess you could count Cream's mother... she's kind of an extension of Cream herself though.