The illusion of Classic Sonic

[Mega]

Ah.. well... you see..

[Chaos Warp]

Ah.. well... you see..

I don't think anyone counts Sonic 4, because, as we all know.......

PHYSICS!!!!

Edited December 5, 2011 by Christmas Warp

[Sami]

Ah.. well... you see..

*Garbage*

Sonic 4 doesn't count because it's shit. This is a perfectly legitimate reason as far as I'm concerned.

[Dr. Mechano]

This is a territory thing.

Japanese Sonic was always a lot cutesier than the western "American Kirby Is Hardcore"-makeover they gave him. Same can be said for Eggman, for that matter.

Generations uses Sonic's Japanese classic design and personality, rather than the '90s 'tude that the west got. I'm perfectly okay with this.

EDIT: Also, the OVA is no more canon to Sega than any of the other animated adaptations are. They made Knuckles a happy-go-lucky carefree treasure hunter, so I don't think Planet Freedom's "lazy egotist" portrayal of Sonic is game-accurate by any stretch of the imagination. I love the OVA, but Sega it is not.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Fancypants

[Neon]

This is a territory thing.

Japanese Sonic was always a lot cutesier than the western "American Kirby Is Hardcore"-makeover they gave him. Same can be said for Eggman, for that matter.

Generations uses Sonic's Japanese classic design and personality, rather than the '90s 'tude that the west got. I'm perfectly okay with this.

Agreed. You can tell by comparing them.

Japanese Sonic: =3

American Sonic: "I will kill yo' family."

Edited December 5, 2011 by Neon

[SilentDoom]

Agreed. You can tell by comparing them.

Japanese Sonic: =3

American Sonic: "I will kill yo' family."

"I'm a kill yo' family thrice over keeeeed! Let's juice!"

Edited December 5, 2011 by SiLeNtDo0m

[VO.SUPER]

This is a territory thing.

Japanese Sonic was always a lot cutesier than the western "American Kirby Is Hardcore"-makeover they gave him. Same can be said for Eggman, for that matter.

Generations uses Sonic's Japanese classic design and personality, rather than the '90s 'tude that the west got. I'm perfectly okay with this.

EDIT: Also, the OVA is no more canon to Sega than any of the other animated adaptations are. They made Knuckles a happy-go-lucky carefree treasure hunter, so I don't think Planet Freedom's "lazy egotist" portrayal of Sonic is game-accurate by any stretch of the imagination. I love the OVA, but Sega it is not.

Edit: The OVA was still part of the Japanese marketing portrayal of Sonic and it had more reference from the creators for it. Why would they portray a Sonic similar to our version of him?

I counter you with this:

Exhibit A:

Here we see Classic Sonic openly mocking Eggman by refusing to listen to his speech and sleeping through it.

Exhibit B:

You can argue whether that's the finger or not, but he is clearly taunting metal Robotnik along with Tails there.

Exhibit C:

Look at his smug face as he looks upon his victory over that enemy.

Exhibit D:

Come at me bro! Come at me bro!

Edited December 5, 2011 by VisionaryBlur

[sonfan1984]

Do the Sonic OVA movie even count?

[Dr. Mechano]

I counter you with this:

Exhibit A:

I reiterate my previous point- The OVA is not Sega. Would you make the argument that classic Knuckles was a laid-back, fun-loving treasure hunter? Or that Eggman was a dirty old man with a thing for kidnapping and forcibly marrying young ladies? I wouldn't, but the OVA certainly presents those depictions of both, which- funny as they are- contrast heavily with the characterization of the games.

OVA Sonic is similarly not the same character as his Sega counterpart.

As for Sonic CD, I won't argue he lacks attitude- He clearly has it, but it's more of a playful personality, as opposed to SoA's "Aww, yeah! Get a load of how awesome I am! Don't you love me yet?!" marketing.

At best, Sonic CD simply shows that Sonic can smirk and have fun on an adventure, not that he's a totally radical narcissist.

[Kuzu]

Edit: The OVA was still part of the Japanese marketing portrayal of Sonic and it had more reference from the creators for it. Why would they portray a Sonic similar to our version of him?

I counter you with this:

Exhibit A:

Here we see Classic Sonic openly mocking Eggman by refusing to listen to his speech and sleeping through it.

Exhibit B:

You can argue whether that's the finger or not, but he is clearly taunting metal Robotnik along with Tails there.

Exhibit C:

Look at his smug face as he looks upon his victory over that enemy.

Exhibit D:

Come at me bro! Come at me bro!

Why are so bent out of shape because C. Sonic wasn't as overconfident as M. Sonic? It'd be kind of redundant to have two characters with the same personality, even if they are technically the same person.

[TrueBlue]

I dunno. I don't think either interpretation of Sonic really had much of an oppurtunity to show off their supposed attitude. Hell, most of the story events practically few by, and there wasn't that much there to begin with.

[Pawn]

I think it's quite clear that he's portrayed as a much younger Sonic in Generations than the original was. However I think the fact that he communicates through gestures makes him appear a lot cuter as well.

I imagine they went with a younger version so the two Sonics could stand up more as separate characters. Otherwise we would just have the same character with different design proportions. As far as I'm concerned, Modern's personality is far more in line with how he was in the Classics. The difference since 1999 is that he has a voice. I find it peculiar that people imagined him radically otherwise, but each to their own.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Lungo

[Kuzu]

I also think they kind of dropped the ball in Generations with personality because Sonic displays none of the quirkiness or personality he had in Colors outside of maybe three scenes.

[VO.SUPER]

I reiterate my previous point- The OVA is not Sega. Would you make the argument that classic Knuckles was a laid-back, fun-loving treasure hunter? Or that Eggman was a dirty old man with a thing for kidnapping and forcibly marrying young ladies? I wouldn't, but the OVA certainly presents those depictions of both, which- funny as they are- contrast heavily with the characterization of the games.

OVA Sonic is similarly not the same character as his Sega counterpart.

As for Sonic CD, I won't argue he lacks attitude- He clearly has it, but it's more of a playful personality, as opposed to SoA's "Aww, yeah! Get a load of how awesome I am! Don't you love me yet?!" marketing.

At best, Sonic CD simply shows that Sonic can smirk and have fun on an adventure, not that he's a totally radical narcissist.

The OVA is still a portrayal of how the Japanese saw Sonic back in the day, his personality was that of a sly guy and though he wasn't a narcissist he was certainly a guy who liked to show off to his enemies.

Yes, he's a playful jerk to his enemies and is willing to mess around with them if he can. I'm not asking for the American extreme of his personality, I'm asking for the wiseguy Sonic who's always able to get a laugh out of winning. He was very over confident and that was part of his personality in both continuities. Every adventure was like a day at the park for him.

Why are so bent out of shape because C. Sonic wasn't as overconfident as M. Sonic? It'd be kind of redundant to have two characters with the same personality, even if they are technically the same person.

They are the same person; that's all I can really say.

[Kuzu]

They are the same person; that's all I can really say.

But one of them is a younger version, Younger means childish in most circles.

[Dr. Mechano]

The OVA is still a portrayal of how the Japanese saw Sonic back in the day, his personality was that of a sly guy and though he wasn't a narcissist he was certainly a guy who liked to show off to his enemies.

OVA was way more extreme than the games. Like I said, its Knuckles and Eggman were obviously different too, so I don't see how one can argue for it having consistent characterization with the games.

Yes, he's a playful jerk to his enemies and is willing to mess around with them if he can. I'm not asking for the American extreme of his personality, I'm asking for the wiseguy Sonic who's always able to get a laugh out of winning. He was very over confident and that was part of his personality in both continuities. Every adventure was like a day at the park for him.

I think you and I are on the same page and just don't realize it.

I feel that classic Sonic has the playful confidence you're referencing, and always has, even in Japan (Certainly not his exaggerated American attitude though).

However, I also feel that Generations portrayed this playful confidence just fine, and saw no problem with the way they handled his characterization.

[VO.SUPER]

But one of them is a younger version, Younger means childish in most circles.

Even if he is more childish he would show twice as much overconfidence as his older version then. Childish can mean many things.

Also, I agree with you on that they downplayed Modern Sonic as well. I guess overall this problem was brought upon by how weak and straightforward of a story Generations was.

[Dreamcast]

Classic Sonic did have attitude in Generations, what you people wanted him to frown for the whole freaking game? You see his attitude when he chases after Robotnik in the mirror cutscene as well as the Egg Robo aftermath. Also since we are seeing him as a 3D model and not as a side on sprite, we don't get that 'side on determination' look that he has in the classic games.

Also if Sega made him too awesome nobody would buy poor ol' Modern Sonic's games.

"Rolling is so 1994!"

Edited December 5, 2011 by Dreamcast

[VO.SUPER]

OVA was way more extreme than the games. Like I said, its Knuckles and Eggman were obviously different too, so I don't see how one can argue for it having consistent characterization with the games.

I think you and I are on the same page and just don't realize it.

I feel that classic Sonic has the playful confidence you're referencing, and always has, even in Japan (Certainly not his exaggerated American attitude though).

However, I also feel that Generations portrayed this playful confidence just fine, and saw no problem with the way they handled his characterization.

I guess you're right on that part, of course Robotnik and Knuckles were less portrayed in games than either Sonic or Tails at that point.

I think we're on the same page as well but we're going off in different directions. I'm going to say that I don't see that Sonic in Generations, but about a post ago I came to claim about it being the fault of the game's overall weak narrative which didn't allow for enough interactions.

[Diogenes]

As for Sonic CD, I won't argue he lacks attitude- He clearly has it, but it's more of a playful personality, as opposed to SoA's "Aww, yeah! Get a load of how awesome I am! Don't you love me yet?!" marketing.

Ok? Well, Generations Classic Sonic doesn't even live up to that.

I neither expect nor want the American Sonic's outdated attitude, but neither do I want a cutesy plush toy.

[Kuzu]

Even if he is more childish he would show twice as much overconfidence as his older version then. Childish can mean many things.

I don't see why it matters, C. Sonic is based on the original Japanese version made by SEGA, not the OVA which non-canon. Saying the OVA should a basis for his character is basically saying Eggman is a pervert and Knuckles is a traveling treasure hunter with no duties.

[VO.SUPER]

I don't see why it matters, C. Sonic is based on the original Japanese version made by SEGA, not the OVA which non-canon. Saying the OVA should a basis for his character is basically saying Eggman is a pervert and Knuckles is a traveling treasure hunter with no duties.

You're just reprising what FancyPants said to me, read my response to him to get your answer.

[Pawn]

Who's to say Classic Eggman wasn't a pervert? There was no evidence in the classics to suggest the contrary. Also, while Knuckles' role may have been different, I wouldn't say his personality was radically so.

I'm not saying that we should look to the OVA for a solid definition of Sonic's character, but I find these arguments against its characterisation as a whole a bit thin.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Lungo

[sonfan1984]

I neither expect nor want the American Sonic's outdated attitude, but neither do I want a cutesy plush toy.

Funny you would say that. My Classic Sonic plush doll looks just like the one in Generations.

[Cheddly]

"I'm a kill yo' family thrice over keeeeed! Let's juice!"

He's climbin' in yo windows...

He's snatchin' yo people up...