Occupy Wall Street

[TheGerkuman]

The protests certainly have a message. The problem is a severe lack of explicitly defined goals, which is allowing a whole bunch of people with different political viewpoints and ideas- albeit with the same anger towards the elite- to converge into them.

Nep, that's exactly what they meant by having no clear message. They're just using different words.

There seems to be for every 1 person who knows their stuff 3 people who don't. I think everyone, everywhere on the political spectrum, would like this protest to become more focussed so that they can either argue for or against it on the actual merits of the protest and not how badly it's been organised.

[HippiEcononomist-ette]

#thereisnoclearmessagelol

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

Should give you all a general idea of "demands"; has been up online for a while.

Stop bitching, start Googling?

#thismovementhasnoleaderwtf

By putting down OWS for not having a "leader," in the traditional sense, those who do are missing the point of the protest in the first place. The system is run by direct democracy- a system by the people, for the people, used by the people, etc. The point isn't to have a hierarchical structure with one person at the top dictating the way the world turns in Zuchotti Park.

To say that there is no "leader," too, is not the correct phrasing, for within this system of direct democracy are various "working groups"- Medical, Media, Food, Comfort, etc- that are each staffed by various people and kept together. There are also people who maintain the website, organize donations, plan marches, and many more.

It's extraordinarily well-organized and well-maintained, as demonstrated last Friday's efforts to "clean up the park" so that "sanitation" (aka the systematic evacuation of OWS protestors) could be halted.

(Source: http://www.observer.com/2011/10/more-about-zuccotti-parks-protester-cleansing/ ).

Also, OWS isn't a political party, with a campaign figurehead and policies that it will either abandon or rip to shreds. There are goals of the protest, and then there are people who come together, as a group, and have the voice in America and around the world that the middle class is vanishing, that banks have long-since had the ability to make unwise business decisions at the expense of peoples' fortunes, and that there is not enough voice in American politics.

People are also there, frankly, to protest their own right to the First Amendment right of "free speech" and the "right to peacefully assembly"- especially in the face of the unwarranted and unjust police brutality.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Should give you all a general idea of "demands"; has been up online for a while.

[Flyboy Fox]

#thereisnoclearmessagelol

http://occupywallst....-editadd-so-th/

Should give you all a general idea of "demands"; has been up online for a while.

Stop bitching, start Googling?

I wonder how many people taking part in the protests could even clearly explain one of the articles on the list. I'm of no doubt that there are people who own websites and have a strong political agenda and make pages like that who DO know what they're talking about and have some sensible (and perhaps not so sensible) logistical ideas to make things happen. But I don't believe for one second that the page you just linked to represents the views, experiences and desires of the majority of protesters out there.

People are also there, frankly, to protest their own right to the First Amendment right of "free speech" and the "right to peacefully assembly"- especially in the face of the unwarranted and unjust police brutality.

Where can I go to protest against protests?

Also, eh, welcome to the SSMB. Are you here for Sonic or just for getting angry over our Hot Button Topic Of The Week?

[Tornado]

Look at U.S History for a moment. Every single movement towards the left or just center-left has been seized by domestic forces and set to prisons with the poor motivation of "keeping out the anti-americans". It's been that way for over 100 years and will go on if the attitudes doesn't change.

Talk about revisionist history. This kind of dramatic paranoia stopped being the case before the Korean War even ended, mostly because the corrupt fuckwits in government (your McCarthys and your McCarrans) were tossed out on their asses for propagating it.

This movement is a HUGE leap towards at least center-left.

This movement is a bunch of people whining about people with more money than them.

See? I can do that too.

#thereisnoclearmessagelol

http://occupywallst....-editadd-so-th/

Should give you all a general idea of "demands"; has been up online for a while.

So, here's a question: Why the hell don't any of the people actually involved with the protests know this either?

Edited October 18, 2011 by TGaP Tornado

[HippiEcononomist-ette]

I think it says a lot about the movement that someone had to go and ask somebody to register on a Sonic fansite in order to explain that it has an actual goal.

I think it says a lot more about the intelligence and judgmental nature of the people on this website that someone had to register on a Sonic fansite to accomplish what people already registered on the site couldn't do in a twenty-five second Google search.

Police Brutality eh? Of course.

Police brutality. Yes.

Chase Bank cut a $4.6 million dollar check to the New York Police Department.

The very next day, buses from Riker's Island (NY prison) were shipped, many extra policemen and women were put on duty, and seven hundred and eighty protesters were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge.

Most were charged with something to the effect of "you were blocking traffic"- a fair and legal charge for civil disobedience, the footage of the NYPD clearing traffic for the protesters and leading them onto the bridge notwithstanding.

Many, however, were also charge with "failure to disperse." This, after protesters were kettled into orange netting, forced together, and not allowed to leave. They were not set free, even after chanting, "LET US GO! WE CAN'T BREATHE!"

At the Times Square rally last Saturday, when twenty thousand peaceful protesters flooded the square and stood there, the NYPD brought out not only their riot cops- armed with gas masks at the ready- but also horses, to trample protesters who would not disperse.

Police brutality.

(Video source: http://gawker.com/58...all-street.html ).

Police going beyond what is right and lawful in America.

*Wonders if I should point out the fact that if theres people there protesting other things it actually detracts from the main focus of the protest since it shows that the numbers of people there don't actually care about... whatever it is they're moaning about.*

Sure you can. After all, I've already shown you a list of "official demands" that OWS is seeking, and if you click on it, you can feel free to see that the document and demands itself can change and be altered, in the ways that peoples' opinions and voices change.

There are concrete things- passing the Buffet Rule, strengthening bank regulation, the ending of corporations' ability to donate massive sums of money to political campaigns- and then there are the less-specific cries of something is not right in my country and I have the right to speak my mind and stand up for what I believe in.

So, here's a question: Why the hell don't any of the people actually involved with the protests know this either?

Sure they do. Would you like to do your own research, or would you like to be link-spammed?

Some Passive-Aggressive Greeting

Hello!

I frequent forums when they interest me, register when I care, and lurk often.

It's nice to meet you!

Edited October 18, 2011 by HippiEcononomist-ette

[DarkOverord]

#thereisnoclearmessagelol

http://occupywallst....-editadd-so-th/

Should give you all a general idea of "demands"; has been up online for a while.

Stop bitching, start Googling?

#thismovementhasnoleaderwtf

By putting down OWS for not having a "leader," in the traditional sense, those who do are missing the point of the protest in the first place. The system is run by direct democracy- a system by the people, for the people, used by the people, etc. The point isn't to have a hierarchical structure with one person at the top dictating the way the world turns in Zuchotti Park.

To say that there is no "leader," too, is not the correct phrasing, for within this system of direct democracy are various "working groups"- Medical, Media, Food, Comfort, etc- that are each staffed by various people and kept together. There are also people who maintain the website, organize donations, plan marches, and many more.

It's extraordinarily well-organized and well-maintained, as demonstrated last Friday's efforts to "clean up the park" so that "sanitation" (aka the systematic evacuation of OWS protestors) could be halted.

(Source: http://www.observer....ster-cleansing/ ).

Also, OWS isn't a political party, with a campaign figurehead and policies that it will either abandon or rip to shreds. There are goals of the protest, and then there are people who come together, as a group, and have the voice in America and around the world that the middle class is vanishing, that banks have long-since had the ability to make unwise business decisions at the expense of peoples' fortunes, and that there is not enough voice in American politics.

People are also there, frankly, to protest their own right to the First Amendment right of "free speech" and the "right to peacefully assembly"- especially in the face of the unwarranted and unjust police brutality.

You miss a point. In my case I pointed out #OccupyMcr, Occupy Manchester, lot. Aren't getting their points across, and I suspect a you don't understand this do you? The idea of a protest is not to hope people "Just fucking google it" as you're essentially pointing out with

Stop bitching, start Googling?

I think you underestimate the public. While you, or I, may do so. The Average Joe on the street probably won't at all. And what makes it hilarious? The Occupy <place> isn't coordinated at all, for example, quick reading up shows me that #OccupyMcr actually focuses on the British Government, and it's cuts. Unlike Occupy Wall Street... Honestly?

And most of all, I had to look online for it. The people walking past it at "Peace Gardens" in Manchester, because they attempt not to push an agenda, will not learn it.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I think it says a lot more about the intelligence and judgmental nature of the people on this website that someone had to register on a Sonic fansite to accomplish what people already registered on the site couldn't do in a twenty-five second Google search.

Yes it's totally my problem that this movement/protest is so unpopular and so confusing to even those involved that nobody either knows it exists or has a clue as to what they're moaning about.

Police brutality. Yes.

Well I guess we should hold an enquiory into it, that way we can know what happened and if those police did do anything wrong they'll get punished.

Or are we just going to instantly yell "Police Brutality!" until the cows come home since it supports the agenda of the week?

Sure you can. After all, I've already shown you a list of "official demands" that OWS is seeking, and if you click on it, you can feel free to see that the document and demands itself can change and be altered, in the ways that peoples' opinions and voices change.

The only way I would find myself doing that is if I'd been heavilly sedated or on the verge or manic depression.

Are you here for Sonic or just for getting angry over our Hot Button Topic Of The Week?

If it wasn't obvious before, it probably is now.

And welcome to the forum too.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Hogfather

[HippiEcononomist-ette]

While, of course, I am not suggesting people "just fucking Google it," I am saying that people who want to learn about the movement itself would do well to do their research on the movement before judging it.

"do your research" is a pretty popular idea.

As to your point about Occupy <All Of The Places>, I believe this fits under the category of "peoples' right to protest and demand change in their country when they feel as though voting is not enough to enact change."

Not being from England, myself, I cannot comment on what Manchester is rallying against, specifically, but if you'd provide a link, I'd love to read about it.

The problem, Hogfeather, is that the "police inquiries" thus far have been inefficient at best. Anthony Bologna- the police officer famous for pepper-spraying two girls at an OWS protest and went viral- currently has outstanding complaints against him for the same charges, and yet has never been fired or removed from his position.

As to your comment about manic-depression and drugs, well, then it is your own fault for not reading up on issues, I suppose?

[turbojet]

So what the fuck are Occupy Manchester protesting?

[Badnik Mechanic]

do your research is a pretty popular idea.

Or you could have a clear mandate for protest?

As to your comment about manic-depression and drugs, well, then it is your own fault for not reading up on issues, I suppose?

Again... why is it my fault that your protest makes no sense and virtually nobody actually has a clue as to what it's about?

So what the fuck are Occupy Manchester protesting?

All 4 of them are angry... ... .. .I don't know what they're angry at. But then again thats a common theme these days.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Hogfather

[Stacy]

Police Brutality eh? Of course.

Police brutality. Yes.

Chase Bank cut a $4.6 million dollar check to the New York Police Department.

The very next day, buses from Riker's Island (NY prison) were shipped, many extra policemen and women were put on duty, and seven hundred and eighty protesters were arrested on the Brooklyn Bridge.

Most were charged with something to the effect of "you were blocking traffic"- a fair and legal charge for civil disobedience, the footage of the NYPD clearing traffic for the protesters and leading them onto the bridge notwithstanding.

[Flyboy Fox]

While, of course, I am not suggesting people "just fucking Google it,"

[Pelly <3's U]

At BW:

People can join whatever forum they want. We have discussion topics for discussion, and if someone wants to take place in them rather then rearranging their collection of precious sonic figurines for the 5th time of the day then they very well can.

I'm honestly so sick of reading 'why did you join a sonic fan site for X'

She joined it so she could take place in this discussion I assume. And if she's not breaking the rules then its perfectly acceptable.

[turbojet]

Again, for emphasis and for clarity, what the fuck are they protesting?

[Lady Lily]

Again, for emphasis and for clarity, what the fuck are they protesting?

According to a Q & A they had on livestream it's a protest against corporate greed and the banks.

[Tornado]

do your research" is a pretty popular idea.

So is making what they are protesting known. Else it isn't a very effective protest, is it?

[turbojet]

According to a Q & A they had on livestream it's a protest against corporate greed and the banks.

So they really have no fucking clue?

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

...Well this is awkward. ;

Hello. I have a confession.

As you may remember, I said this at the beginning of the topic:

I've only even heard about this because I happen to know someone who was involved over the weekend and very nearly got arrested...

Well, guess who I've been talking to this topic about in private. I forgot how snarky she is when she's not talking to people she's not familiar with and now I've unleashed the Kraken upon you all. Perhaps I should have warned you all before this exploded. Whoops. XD;;;

My plan was, as overwhelmingly as this topic has been all about "lol, these protesters are morons", "lol I don't get this movement", and more recently "lol TL;DR lol protesters", and the fact that the two people I know who are directly involved with the movement are people I've known for a long-ass time and can vouch for as upstanding and intelligent US citizens, I spoke about this thread with them - because y'know, this forum thread has (unintentionally) been virtual non-stop insults directed at good friends of mine and it was really starting to piss me off. Eventually this evolved into nudging them both to drop in and bring up the other side of the debate, and here we are.

The road to evil is paved with good intentions...

[Lady Lily]

So they really have no fucking clue?

[DarkOverord]

So what the fuck are Occupy Manchester protesting?

[turbojet]

Yes they do, but I don't have the time to type it all out.

Edited October 18, 2011 by turbojet

[Cynical]

Get out.. GTFO! If you're going to keep accusing me of being some kind of fascist supporter, GTFO.

I clearly stayed between the lines, and of course you still accuse me of being a Nazi. I even mentioned the Civil Rights movement.

[Pelly <3's U]

Cynical, BW...

Seriously knock it off. Both of you just drop your bickering, it's gone on long enough.

[Cynical]

Cynical, BW...

Seriously knock it off. Both of you just drop your bickering, it's gone on long enough.

I've tried. The man is obviously ignorant.