Sally Acorn a official Sega character?

[Milo]

Well, in Sonic Spinball she did appear in the Special Stage with a few other SatAM characters. But otherwise no, not canon.

EDIT: Not to mention that Spinball is a spin-off.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Ananze

[Aquaslash]

Now, with that aside, let's address the big picture here. There is no singular "SEGA canon". There are many SEGA canons, all canonical to their respective universe. The main canon featured within the games takes place within Sonic Team's Sonic the Hedgehog universe. Another popular one happens to be TMS Entertainments' Sonic X universe. Many people also happen to be fans of DiC's Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog universe. They're all valid canons within their own respective universes, and SEGA owns the rights to all of these properties. They are all "SEGA canons", all being "official" material.

OMG I want to sig this. I'm sooo over this fanbase deriding the Western canons just because they're "not official" I don't know what to do about it.

It's one thing to be like Mechano and dislike the canons because of the stories they have. That's fine and dandy. But this hate boner that half of these lousy weeaboo fans have for things JUST because they don't come from "precious Japan land", that slag's gotta stop.

And lastly, as an avid Sonia fan, I must add my obligatory "SU canon rules" statement.

Carry on

[Mangoaxe5]

She's official in the sense that Sega owns the rights to her, but sadly she's not part of the Sega Sonic canon.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Darkfox

[SHAX Hedgefox]

Even as a fan of Sally, I know this is bullshit.

While she may be an "official" character in the comics and cartoon continuity, in the main SEGA game continuity, she doesn't technically exist (and no, Sonic Spinball does not count, partly because it was developed by other people, partly because Sally hasn't appeared in a game since Spinball, and because it's a shitty game)

[Vertekins]

One thing that rubs me the wrong way about Archie's Sonic universe is how pretentious it is amongst the continuities as a whole by claiming it's version of Sonic to be the "Prime" version, "Destined to save all other dimensions" the "True Sonic" as Zonic so says here

I mean, it's one thing for there to be a multiverse in Sonic but it's quite another to claim that this multiverse contains all other Sonic continuities/canons and that they all ultimately branch from Archie's canon/continuity though is it...the cosmic interstate as well as claiming that it's version of Sonic is the 'true' one and that all other continuities, including the source games, are 'lower' in importance.

It goes above and beyond when Metal Sonic and Shadow from the archieverse literally teleport into Sonic X's continuity. It's a blatant disrespect for others series' takes on ignoring any hints towards there actually being a multiverse featuring different Sonic continuities.

What also gets me about these people who love to force Archie/SatAM's aspects on the rest of the series is that they tend to be Sally fangirls/boys and prove that they don't know what the hell they're talking about by claiming that Sally Acorn 'came' before Amy Rose and therefore she's better, because you know, seniority AUTOMATICALLY makes characters better doesn't it?[/sarcasm]. They're joyfully oblivious to the cold hard fact that Amy came before not only Sally but also before Tails. Not that I consider seniority to be something to worship regarding a character but I do like knocking these people who claim seniority=godliness off their high-horses

Edited August 5, 2011 by Verte

[Amomynous]

Sort of, the name Sally Acorn DID appear in the Sonic bible, but she was a squirrel, and was the same character as Ricky, the only difference was the gender flip, certainly not the same character that appeared in SatAM, the name Sally Acorn also appeared in the Sonic CD manual, but that was just going to by Amy rose's American name before they changed their mind and just translated her Japanese name.

My verdict: The name Sally Acorn was created by Sega and used for two of their characters, the Sally acorn we all know from SatAM is a third character completely and was created by DIC (now owned by Archie).

Edited August 5, 2011 by Mysterics

[Saint Nathan]

The logic used here

makes my head hurt

I can't even joke about hos stupid this is.

[Dr. Mechano]

But this hate boner that half of these lousy weeaboo fans have for things JUST because they don't come from "precious Japan land", that slag's gotta stop.

I'm not sure calling fans who prefer the Japanese storyline "lousy weaboos" is the best way to get their respect. You clearly dislike it when the Japanese-storyline fans discount your opinion, so it makes little sense that you'd do the exact same thing to theirs.

I'd go further to say this- "Weaboo" generally refers to someone who obsesses over Japanese culture/entertainment without a proper understanding of that culture's background. An example would be the hyperactive fangirl who doesn't speak Japanese at all, yet feels compelled to shoehorn "kawaii" into every other sentence. Preferring the original storyline, sans localization editing, is not being a "weaboo." It's simply preferring the original storyline.

My preference for the Japanese story has nothing to do with it coming from Japan, and everything to do with it being first and- in my opinion- better. It's the same when any foreign production gets heavily-changed in the localization process, and has nothing to do with any special love for Japan in my case.

The "Fans of SoJ must be weaboo otaku who only like it because it's from Japan" stereotype is a horrid strawman at best, and carries the unfortunate implications that most of them don't really prefer SoJ on its own merits and only do so because it's Japanese. I can't speak for every SoJ fan, but I believe for most of us it really is about simply finding it to be a better story with better-written characters, regardless of what country it was developed in.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Badnik Mechanic]

I read the article... then I got to the point where they linked to Sonic wiki and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't take it seriously anymore.

Sally is not a canon character to anything other than Archie comis/SatAM and no random internet blog will change that fact.

She might be owned by Sega but she's certainly not canon.

The most obvious evidence for this can actually be found in Fleetways STC of all places, don't forget how Sega gave Fleetway, Archie and Dic a list of 'roles and rules' regarding their canon characters. Now Sally does indeed appear in Fleetways STC on a handful of occasions... but... is she a princess... nope. Is she a royal of any kind? Nope. Does she have any similar traits to Archie or SatAM's Sally? Nope... nothing.

Kind of strange isn't it if she was a canon character. Not just the fact that she only makes around 3 appearences, but that she's nothing like any other incarnation.

But like I said, Sally is not canon, and no random internet blog from some random person will not change my mind on that.

You guys seem to have a vendetta against the western canon don't ya?

I don't... but Yuji Naka isn't exactly it's number one fan.

"Had I found out about it at the time, I would have been very angry" --- Yuji Naka at Summer of Sonic when asked about the Western storyline.

[Vertekins]

Mechano took the words right out of my mouth.

Why the hell should people who vastly prefer SoJ's story/continuity (Which came first) over the parody SoA made of the Sonic series in the form of SatAM and the comics be labelled on principle as Japan-humping Weaboos? That's a pathetic strawman.

I'm never going to prize Archie/SatAM/Underground/AoStH or even X over the Game series because most of those are, for all of their enormous deviancy and complete and utter disregard, Sonic in name only, featuring stories that have no semblance in plot or tone whatsoever to the games (With the exception of X) and which feature Black Hole Mary Sues like Sally Acorn and Chris Thorndike that sideline characters that MADE the Sonic series what it was. Those continuities are devoid of the distinct charm and nature that made Sonic Sonic. It's like telling the readers of Catwoman to accept and prize the Catwoman film despite it having NOTHING in common with the source material except for the name.

It's one thing to adore SatAM/Archie/Fleetway/X/Underground on their own merits but to outright claim that prizing the Game series and SoJ's continuity above them makes you a weaboo is just ridiculous.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Verte

[Indigo Rush]

When it comes to canon merging, the only thing I really wanted in the games were for Eggman to have his family name be "Robotnik," and have the game give a reference to chili dogs as Sonic's favorite food.

And lucky me, they did both those things, and nothing more. That's all that really mattered to me.

Though calling the first few islands Sonic had his first adventures on in the Genesis games the "Mobius" Island chain would have been kind of cool, IMO.

[Tornado]

The "Fans of SoJ must be weaboo otaku who only like it because it's from Japan" stereotype is a horrid strawman at best, and carries the unfortunate implications that most of them don't really prefer SoJ on its own merits and only do so because it's Japanese. I can't speak for every SoJ fan, but I believe for most of us it really is about simply finding it to be a better story with better-written characters, regardless of what country it was developed in.

Why the hell should people who vastly prefer SoJ's story/continuity (Which came first) over the parody SoA made of the Sonic series in the form of SatAM and the comics be labelled on principle as Japan-humping Weaboos? That's a pathetic strawman.

Because, strawman or not, it wasn't that long ago that "its sucks because it isn't Japanese" was one of the main reasons the Western continuities were constantly shit on. Granted, that was back when there really wasn't much to be proud of in the SoJ continuity, but I don't see why the labeling them as Weaboos is that surprising of a reaction in response to what was going on.

Was it ever a mature response? No. But that isn't my point, and I don't *think* it was Aquaslash's either.

I mean, it's one thing for there to be a multiverse in Sonic but it's quite another to claim that this multiverse contains all other Sonic continuities/canons and that they all ultimately branch from Archie's canon/continuity though is it...the cosmic interstate as well as claiming that it's version of Sonic is the 'true' one and that all other continuities, including the source games, are 'lower' in importance.

It goes above and beyond when Metal Sonic and Shadow from the archieverse literally teleport into Sonic X's continuity. It's a blatant disrespect for others series' takes on ignoring any hints towards there actually being a multiverse featuring different Sonic continuities.

I also don't see how this is a "problem" so much as a "creative difference."

Edited August 5, 2011 by Tornado

[Vertekins]

Because, strawman or not, it wasn't that long ago that "its sucks because it isn't Japanese" was one of the main reasons the Western continuities were constantly shit on. Granted, that was back when there really wasn't much to be proud of in the SoJ continuity, but I don't see why the labeling them as Waeboos is that surprising of a reaction in response to what was going on.

That isn't applicable in this topic, as no one in here has even vaguely hinted that the reason why they prefer SoJ's continuity over the Western ones is solely because it's Japanese.

I also don't see how this is a "problem" so much as a "creative difference."

How can it be a "difference" when it directly implicates other continuities into it's storyline? There is no canonical basis in other continuities for Archie to go on that justifies them forcing it's presence or claiming that Archie Sonic is the "true" Sonic that is the ultimate hero in all Sonic continuities. Not even SoJ goes so far as to even hint at this regarding Game Sonic. We've never even had the vaguest hint from the other continuities' viewpoints that it acknowledges there being multiple Sonic universes featuring it's own version of Sonic, so why should Archie have any right claiming that in-universe, ALL Sonic continuities/universes are inextricably linked?

Edited August 5, 2011 by Verte

[Tornado]

That isn't applicable in this topic, as no one in here has even vaguely hinted that the reason why they prefer SoJ's continuity over the Western ones is solely because it's Japanese.

Last I checked, this topic was already dealing with ideas not actually expressed in the thread, so I'd like to see what justification you have for saying there was no reason to say what has been said.

How can it be a "difference" when it directly implicates other continuities into it's storyline? There is no canonical basis in other continuities for Archie to go on that justifies them forcing it's presence or claiming that Archie Sonic is the "true" Sonic that is the ultimate hero in all Sonic continuities. Not even SoJ goes so far as to even hint at this regarding Game Sonic. We've never even had the vaguest hint from the other continuities' viewpoints that it acknowledges there being multiple Sonic universes featuring it's own version of Sonic, so why should Archie have any right claiming that in-universe, ALL Sonic continuities/universes are inextricably linked?

This really calls for an >implying post, but I won't do that.

I will simply say that your explaining your personal problems with a storyline as being objective problems with what basically amounts to an entire literary concept for comic books (because the idea of a Prime universe tying together previously completely unrelated multiverses wasn't done first by Archie, it wasn't done worst by Archie, and it certainly won't be done last by Archie). They aren't. And I don't even really like Archie, before you play that card.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Tornado

[Diogenes]

As a follower of the game continuity, I see no reason to be bothered by all the "Sonic Prime" nonsense. I just interpret it as the main Sonic from the comics is the Sonic Prime of all zones/worlds/whatever that appear in the comics. The games, the shows, Fleetway Sonic, can all remain separate from that.

[Amomynous]

"Had I found out about it at the time, I would have been very angry" --- Yuji Naka at Summer of Sonic when asked about the Western storyline.

Yuji saying that was in response to the interviewer telling him about the story in the Sonic Bible, wich was scrapped before Sonic 1 was even made, what Yuji thinks of the American storyline that actually made the cut is still unkown, but I would understand if he was miffed simply because it doesn't make sense as to why they changed it.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Mysterics

[Dr. Mechano]

Because, strawman or not, it wasn't that long ago that "its sucks because it isn't Japanese" was one of the main reasons the Western continuities were constantly shit on.

Very few- if any- SoJ fans had the sentiment you're describing. I never saw it expressed anywhere, except claimed by angry SoA fans as "proof" that the SoJ fanbase were blind otaku fanboys. Talking to SoJ fans on forums for about a decade, I've never seen even one genuine example of "I like it because it's Japanese" except as parody or as an anti-SoJ strawman. I can't find one example.

If there was any purism among the SoJ fanbase aside from just preferring it on its own merits, then it wasn't because it was Japanese, but because it was first. That's the issue here- The SoJ story is the original portrayal of Sonic, and all other continuities (Including other Japanese ones like the OVA, X, and the various manga) are derivatives of that original canon.

It may surprise some of you to know I actually like a couple of the western continuities; I liked AoStH, and I actually liked Archie's Sonic X comic book better than the original anime it was based on. X comic is actually my favorite continuity and hey, it just so happens to be a western one! But even though I like Ian's run of the Sonic X comic book (And more than the games in fact), I understand and accept that it's still a derivative of the original game series. It's not the same thing, and I cannot apply traits, characters, and events from one to the other (As much as I love El Gran Gordo, I understand that he's not for the video games).

Simply- I think the weaboo accusation doesn't hold water and never did. Most SoJ fans simply think the story/characters were better in the original canon, and the remaining SoJ fans with more meta reasons for liking it do so because it was first rather than because it was Japanese, and would consistently be just as miffed at a western production being heavily changed for a Japanese release.

EDIT: Furthermore, there's a HUGE difference between changing something for an adaptation and changing something for a translation. The games were the latter, given new storylines and off-model artwork but still containing the same content as their original SoJ counterparts. The cartoons/comics, however, were adaptations and are understood to be separate from the game continuity, including the SoA game continuity. (Remember, SoA refers to the American instruction manuals; AoStH, SatAM, and Archie are different, distinct continuities that are not directly part of the SoA videogame canon) The difference is this- Simply making a crappy cartoon based on a video game is nothing new (In the grand tradition of Pac Man, Mario, Mega Man, and others), because it's a separate universe and fans understand it as such. But editing the actual game storyline is why many SoJ fans see the SoA plot as translation-butchering. In many ways, despite being closer, the SoA story is more of a problem than SatAM/Archie, because it tries to pass itself off as the original game story, where the cartoons and comics do not.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Dr. Mechano

[Tornado]

Very few- if any- SoJ fans had the sentiment you're describing.

Then I must say that I recall differently than you do. There was a period of time where all you had to do to incite a frothing rage was say "Mobius."

If there was any purism among the SoJ fanbase aside from just preferring it on its own merits, then it wasn't because it was Japanese, but because it was first. That's the issue here- The SoJ story is the original portrayal of Sonic, and all other continuities (Including other Japanese ones like the OVA, X, and the various manga) are derivatives of that original canon.

I'd also argue that this wasn't true either, because the best I think you could say for the original SoJ canon was that it was made concurrently with the SoA one, and that it tended to be more consistent than the SoA one. The first game was an international effort from the start, designed in Japan or not; and there was story material for both canons being released in both markets long before the first game came out (which was in the west first anyways, as little as that means).

Edited August 5, 2011 by Tornado

[Amomynous]

Not that doesn't still happen Tornado, you know how fans are.

The whole Earth/Mobius thing seems to have died down somewhat, people are hopefully realising how frivolous it is.

To me it looks quite clear that they are the same planet, in-universe of course

[Dr. Mechano]

Then I must say that I recall differently than you do. There was a period of time where all you had to do to incite a frothing rage was say "Mobius."

And what does a dislike of Mobius have to do with Japan-worship?

As I explained, the dislike of SoA elements stems not from it being non-Japanese, but from it being a heavily-edited version of the original story, regardless of where that original story came from. If the same story (Dr. Eggman is trying to conquer Earth with his army of animal-powered robots) had debuted in America, but was heavily edited in its Japanese release into something else (Let's say, "The alien Dr. Machine King has arrived from outer space to turn Planet Freedom into a zoo for his robotic animals" or something), it would be just as much a derivative, and seen as "less valid" than the original source on those merits alone.

Any precedence for SoJ beyond merely finding it better stems from its place as the original canon. It has nothing to do with it being Japanese, and I don't see how disliking SoA elements proves that it does.

[Tornado]

Because I'm skeptical to say the least about how much merit that argument actually has.

[Dr. Mechano]

Because I'm skeptical to say the least about how much merit that argument actually has.

[Kuzu]

I prefer the Japanese story too, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna shit on the american one. Bottom line is America wanted to play up Sonic's tude more, and they westernized him to do it. Hell wasn't Sonic's tude is what got people into him in the first place?

As for the topic, why are we listening to this person, we all know she's wrong, I mean whoever gets their info from SNN clearly hasn't done their research.

[Your Vest Friend]

The original DAer is nothing, one of the commenters seriously believes that Sally and Amy are the same character. O_o

Edited August 5, 2011 by VEDJ-F

[Amomynous]

I prefer the SoJ simply because it's longer and more detailed.

In some cases the Japanese manual actually has a story whilst the American manual goes no further than "Dr. Ivo Robotnik, the mad scientist, is snatching innocent animals and turning them into evil robots!"

The original DAer is nothing, one of the commenters seriously believes that Sally and Amy are the same character. O_o

As I said before, the American Sonic CD manual called Amy 'Sally Acorn'

This was probably going to be her American name before they changed their mind and simply translated her Japanese name, this is may be what they are on about.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Mysterics