Takashi Iizuka Says It Again: Shadow Will Not Appear in Classic Sonic Games

I've been reading this myself last night about Shadow being In classic Sonic games. Well there's your answer Takashi Iizuka officially stated Shadow won't be In classic Sonic games they can stop asking him the same questions now.

Takashi Iizuka must be tired and frustrated keep getting the same questions about Shadow being In the classic Sonic games hopefully there should be no more asking the same questions about It now.

We need more Shadow...and Silver! Maybe in the next game.

I will never like the idea that the Classic designs means that games have to take place before anything with Modern designs. I'd rather it was just an artistic direction, meant to convey nature of the game. It would be so much more flexible that way. 

Officially seeing Classic Shadow et al would be fun. This mandate is strictly anti-fun, and puts too much of a focus on timelines. Now they have to worry about silliness like timeline placements for everyone, and possibly even character ages. Where does S4 fit in the timeline? Can Metal Sonic never appear in another Classic game? Why does Cream have a modern design despite the fact that she's only 6? Just let it be a flexible artstyle. 

He could just show up in non-canon scenario. (Heck, it could be played as a joke.)

Or time travel. "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you", let's get reven... reverse for Forces.

Good save, me, good save.

But if Shadow never appears in any Classic, I won't cry. Besides, we'll see how thing will look 10 years from now, when they run out of obscure characters to return. All they have is Honey, Bean, Bark, few Badniks and Tails enemies. Arguably Chaotix.

Silver would make more sense. Give us more Silver. Shadow had his time in the spotlight and it was mid.

People need to stop asking for this, the timelines already a mess.

They should just make classic a separate continuity and introduce its own take on Shadow.

I don't understand why people keep asking this question when there is no precedent for it. Literally no "Modern" character has ever appeared in a "Classic" setting. I think Iizuka's answer of "he was cryogenically frozen you idiot, lol" will hopefully make it stop.

I would personally rather poke and prod him about classic characters who aren't currently allowed to be in the modern cast like Mighty and Ray. Now that is actually stupid.

1 hour ago, Knight Terror said:

People need to stop asking for this, the timelines already a mess.

The timeline wouldn't be a mess if they stopped making bad decisions in one game and then retconning them in the next. They constantly over-complicate everything when it should be very simple and straightforward. Events should typically happen in release order unless a game is explicitly designed as a prequel, plot elements in one game shouldn't contradict with those in another (Blaze in Rush vs 06), the canon status of every game isn't important. 

And there's literally nothing stopping the games from having non-canon bonuses available. 

I mean, that makes sense. Shadow was still on Prison Island at the time.

8 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

The timeline wouldn't be a mess if they stopped making bad decisions in one game and then retconning them in the next.

The actual problem is that they didn't pay any attention to "continuity" in any games following SA2. I'd argue that from Heroes onward, they just made things because they seemed like a cool idea.

Only just recently, starting with Frontiers, they've started to shift focus to more brand cohesion. They're still trying to figure a ton of things out right now. We need to give them the time to do so instead of complaining about the lack of consistency in the past.

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And there's literally nothing stopping the games from having non-canon bonuses available.

I do think argument is fair to an extent tho.

40 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

I mean, that makes sense. Shadow was still on Prison Island at the time.

Pretty much. No need to mess with the continuity.

The problem with this answer is that no one currently asking for this will actually stop asking for this because the idea itself won't stop being appealing to them. I don't think anyone that wants a Classic Shadow wants it to make sense from a narrative standpoint, at least not the majority of them. They either like Shadow and want to see him in more stuff in general or they like the concept of a Classic Shadow and want him there as additional fluff; a what if maybe. And the idea of seeing a popular character like Shadow in the classic art style and/or gameplay will remain tantalizing to them no matter  what continuity reason is given for it not happening.

I'm also firmly on the side that Classic should be an art style rather than a time period, though I admit I prefer this to when it was treated as an alternate timeline. But it definitely feels like made up rules purposely limiting creativity rather than doing something fans actually want. A lot of fans wanted everything in one timeline so everything mattered and the toys weren't split up for seemingly no reason. But as it is now, classic characters are barred from appearing in modern stuff and the classic series is likewise limited to that material. There as of now is no real way for the two sides to meaningfully acknowledge the other, with the lone exception of Mecha Sonic in Scrapnik Island and even that is limited to the core series which was never really up for debate.

Overall, I don't want Shadow involved in Classic Sonic stories, but I don't see the harm in having him involved in a non-canon capacity. I don't like Sega continuing to create self imposed barriers on the franchise which say "Mighty is Classic so he can't be in Modern", "Rouge is Modern so she can't be in Classic" and "Sally was made by Americans without Japanese oversight so she can't be used at all". Fans want to see all the toys get played with and no matter how many times Sega says "But it doesn't match the canon" or "But I don't want to" it won't stop fans from continuing to ask them to do so.

Splitting the series into a 2 timelines was disastrous for the continuity and we only just recently got it fixed. Heck this series focus on continuity and characters is what makes it stand out apart from Mario. Its no coincidence that when the "Meta Era" basically got rid or severely limited both the series started to falter. Limitation also breeds creativity, just look at Batman:TAS. The only real issue so far is Nack, Mighty, etc. haven't been able to appear in the recent era.

So thank you Takashi Iizuka I really appreciate it. I'm sure it would've far easier to keep the Mario standard of anything goes and nothing matters but you and the lore council righted the ship, which again I'm really grateful for.

2 hours ago, The Swordsman said:

Splitting the series into a 2 timelines was disastrous for the continuity and we only just recently got it fixed. Heck this series focus on continuity and characters is what makes it stand out apart from Mario. Its no coincidence that when the "Meta Era" basically got rid or severely limited both the series started to falter. Limitation also breeds creativity, just look at Batman:TAS. The only real issue so far is Nack, Mighty, etc. haven't been able to appear in the recent era.

So thank you Takashi Iizuka I really appreciate it. I'm sure it would've far easier to keep the Mario standard of anything goes and nothing matters but you and the lore council righted the ship, which again I'm really grateful for.

what am I reading

Yeah, nobody liked splitting the Classic and Modern games into different continuities. That one line in Forces, and the subsequent insistence on "two worlds" rubbish had the fanbase groaning in unison. 

That's not the argument though. The argument is simply that the series has two distinct variants of character design. It doesn't make sense and is artificially limiting for those character designs to be held back to a certain point in the timeline. This is an artificial limitation that hinders what the series can do. It's nothing like the sort of limitation that breeds creativity.

I'll ask this question instead; why can't Superstars take place after Frontiers? It would be far easier than trying to wedge it in between S3K/Mania and SA1. 

Continuity or whatever be damned, having characters like Shadow or Blaze appear in a Classic game would be fun to see. It strictly sucks that that's apparently never going to happen.

48 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

why can't Superstars take place after Frontiers?

because it has been stated that going forward, "Classic Sonic" (and by extension, that design philosophy) is literally Modern Sonic but younger. this isn't rocket science, dude.

in order to fit into the modern cast, "classic series" characters would need to be redesigned, some more than others. I'd argue just making Fang slightly taller would work as a modern design, but characters like Mighty and Ray would need more extensive reworking. i'm in the camp that thinks classic characters should be allowed to be in the modern cast.

But, while it would be fun, it just wouldn't make sense to tack most modern-introduced characters into the classic style. Most, if not all of the new modern characters have been implied to be meeting Sonic for the first time in their respective introductions. I personally don't see most modern characters working all that well in the classic art style without feeling over-designed, but that's just my opinion.

EDIT: To add a shred of positivity, I think the closest thing we could feasibly get to seeing members of the modern cast in a 2D game is if they make another 2D Modern Sonic game. I for one would love to see a 2.5D return to Sonic Advance-style gameplay.

15 minutes ago, joe_schmoe99 said:

because it has been stated that going forward, "Classic Sonic" (and by extension, that design philosophy) is literally Modern Sonic but younger. this isn't rocket science, dude.

...

But, while it would be fun, it just wouldn't make sense to tack most modern-introduced characters into the classic style. Most, if not all of the new modern characters have been implied to be meeting Sonic for the first time in their respective introductions.

The issue at hand is that "Classic Sonic is younger Modern Sonic" doesn't have to be that way, it's just what Sega's decided at this time. At any time, Sega could change their mind and say Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic are just different art styles and nothing would change about the existing material in terms of canon. If Sonic Superstars takes place before Sonic Frontiers it's because the plot indicates it takes place before Frontiers. If Sega said Classic and Modern are just different art directions, Superstars could use the Modern designs and the plot would still be before Frontiers. If Sonic R takes place after Superstars but before Sonic Adventure and you go from Modern designs to Classic designs to Modern designs again in continuity it's because each game just uses its own art design. You could say, show the events of Sonic CD with the modern character designs and no one would bat an eye because you're just seeing them with the Modern Sonic art design... you know like what happens in SA1. We know they can arbitrarily change a decision like that because less than six years ago the official answer was that Classic Sonic existed in another dimension from Modern and animal people visited humans by traveling through a gate to their world. Now Classic Sonic is younger Modern Sonic and humans live on continents while animal people live on islands. These details aren't written in stone, they're decided by Sega primarily based on fan and creative feedback.

So don't use continuity as a way to defend separating art styles. What is a stronger argument however is,

35 minutes ago, joe_schmoe99 said:

in order to fit into the modern cast, "classic series" characters would need to be redesigned, some more than others. I'd argue just making Fang slightly taller would work as a modern design, but characters like Mighty and Ray would need more extensive reworking. i'm in the camp that thinks classic characters should be allowed to be in the modern cast.

...

I personally don't see most modern characters working all that well in the classic art style without feeling over-designed, but that's just my opinion.

That's a totally valid opinion. You can look at Ray and go "he wouldn't work in the Modern art style" and look at Blaze and go "she wouldn't work in the Classic art style" and that's totally fair. What works in a particular art direction is up to the individual and knowing that a character would need to be reworked to fit a different direction is certainly true. It's also true that some reworkings might be so drastic that it may not even be recognizable as the same character. To stick with Sonic, Muttski in pre-Archie Sonic reboot and post-Archie Sonic reboot are essentially two completely different characters: one is Sonic's dog and the other isn't. So if you feel a design just doesn't work in another art style wanting to keep the two completely separate makes sense.

But the two Muttskis exist because some people felt the new direction did work. Ray was redesigned in Archie Sonic to fit in with the Modern art style and there's plenty of art depicting Blaze in Classic's art style. A totally fair opinion doesn't negate someone else having an equally valid, opposite opinion. A lot of people (like me) want to see a Classic Shadow not because we want him involved in stories taking place before SA2 but because a Classic Shadow sounds fun to see in action.

1 hour ago, joe_schmoe99 said:

because it has been stated that going forward, "Classic Sonic" (and by extension, that design philosophy) is literally Modern Sonic but younger. this isn't rocket science, dude.

I'm questioning the purpose, reasoning and effectiveness of that philosophy. The arbitrary limitations make things more complicated. The direction that SEGA have decided on is more rocket science than the simple premise of an artstyle, "dude". 

18 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I'm questioning the purpose, reasoning and effectiveness of that philosophy. The arbitrary limitations make things more complicated. The direction that SEGA have decided on is more rocket science than the simple premise of "artstyle", dude. 

...

my brother in christ, the "arbitrary limitations" you're talking about directly make things like continuity a hell of a lot simpler. Classic is Classic and Modern is Modern. i have no idea where you're coming from with your arguments aside from "waaah i want classic Shadow". also, i'm aware it's not as simple as an "artstyle shift", i never even insinuated that. but hey, go off ig. dude.

like i said before, modern-introduced characters will never work with Classic Sonic continuity-wise in a more linearly-focused timeline where he's supposed to be younger Modern Sonic.

even from a "let's make a fun non-canon DLC" standpoint, which i AGREE WITH YOU would be a cool thing, it just doesn't make sense for them to go to the trouble of redesigning any modern character to fit within that time period just to further bloat the already extensive cast and completely f(ri)ck up the timeline that they're trying to establish.

i'm not trying to be an asshole and stomp on people's dreams of Classic Silver/Shadow etc. by the way, i think it'd be kinda neat too. i'm just trying to be realistic, because i understand where Sonic Team is coming from here.

20 minutes ago, joe_schmoe99 said:

...

my brother in christ, the "arbitrary limitations"

i have no idea where you're coming from with your arguments aside from "waaah i want classic Shadow".

but hey, go off ig. dude.

completely f(ri)ck up the timeline that they're trying to establish

Let me know when you want to talk in a civil manner and when you've actually bothered to read what's been written by other users in response to you. Grow up. I don't have time for whatever this is supposed to be. 

21 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Let me know when you want to talk in a civil manner and when you've actually bothered to what's been written by other users in response to you. Grow up. I don't have time for whatever this is supposed to be. 

ok, i might have gotten a bit too heated there, i apologize. let's start over then. i'll state my thought process (which is purely opinion based on the current direction of the series as a whole) in a more digestible way.

in terms of Classic Characters moving over to current Modern, that is something I could get behind. It's a crime that Mighty, Ray, Bean, Bark, Fang, etc. haven't officially been redesigned and added to the modern cast. (side note, didn't the Sonic twitter post something with Mighty's "Modern" Archie design at one point or did i imagine that?)

it gets a lot muddier when you consider Modern characters being retroactively added to the current Classic continuity. Most of the modern characters are meeting Sonic for the first time in the Modern setting. Adding them to a classic game would make no logical sense to anyone paying attention to the current "lore." Even if it would be cool, I think that at least while they're still trying to figure out how to loosely tie things together, we probably won't see anything like that. I don't think that's a direction they want to go in right now.

Again, I'm not saying I wouldn't like Classic-styled Modern characters. I think it could be a neat thing. I'm just too realistic for my own good I guess.

Thank you for making an effort. 

You're still missing point of what I've been saying, however. 

33 minutes ago, joe_schmoe99 said:

it gets a lot muddier when you consider Modern characters being retroactively added to the current Classic continuity. Most of the modern characters are meeting Sonic for the first time in the Modern setting. Adding them to a classic game would make no logical sense to anyone paying attention to the current "lore."

Nobody in this thread is advocating for adding characters into stories before they had been introduced into games otherwise. At most, people have been saying that non-canon bonuses would be welcome. We've already seen that with Tails, Knuckles and Amy being added to the entirety of the Classic quadrilogy. We also saw it with Metal Sonic being added as a bonus in SADX, characters like Tikal and Chaos being part of the SA2 multiplayer and the various metal skins for each team in Heroes. 

The argument being made that is artstyle and character designs should not be conflated with story and timelines. Sonic operates on loose floating timeline. The passage of time is only seen when the story demands it, such as when Forces had a six-month time skip. In all other circumstances, the characters don't age and the world largely doesn't really change. This is because despite the fact that Sonic games have a story and continuity, they don't hinge upon the passage of time. 

Let's say that a future game was to include a fairly light story, no voice acting, cutesy Badniks with goofy eyes, whimsical locations and Classic style physics with lots of rolling. It would be hitting a lot of the hallmarks of a Classic Sonic game, and choosing the Classic character designs would tell the student what they could expect from the game. There's no reason I can see why any of those things should mandate that a game is set in the past, and therefore why characters like Shadow couldn't show up. 

And that then brings me to Superstars and any other Classic games going forwards. Why must Superstars and any other games like it be set in the past? If you want to tell a deep story and explore open zone gameplay, the modern style is the way to go. And if you want a game to have any other aesthetic for any creative reason, you pick something that fits there too. Artstyle is descriptive, not prescriptive. 

It's kinda funny because Amy's getting a skin of her modern design so yeah. Why you don't want money, SEGA? I'd buy a Shadow DLC in an instant. If Runners gave us something, was models that hit the sweet spot of classic and modern, unlike that janky Sonic 4 model lol

Looks at it. He's ready. Put it in Superstars.

31 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Artstyle is descriptive, not prescriptive. 

Not gonna quote the whole thing because uh, long.

But yeah, I see where you're coming from. And to your point, they technically even did something like that as recently as 2017 with Shadow's inclusion in Forces.

In terms of art style, I see your point there as well. I think, right now, Sonic Team is specifically trying to make the distinction between Modern and Classic clearer with consistent art styles between the two, but that isn't to say those styles won't evolve. Unrelated, but I would personally love to see them completely rework Modern Sonic's design philosophy into something less sterile and boring. Those giant hands aren't doing him any favors.