Why is Sonic considered a bad Franchise?

April 22, 2013

And why is this a problem? Heck, what does this have to do with the game's effect on Sonic's reputation?

For starters, most Sonic fans are already Nintendo fans anyway. We're talking about Sonic's reputation in a broader sense. Branching out past the Nintendo fans that were Sonic fans to begin with.

April 22, 2013

I'm going to be honest. People here, including me, overrate Sonic. Looking at it as a whole, INCLUDING the recent games, it's not that good of a series at all. The general gaming populace have series that are much more consistent and much higher quality wise. Why should they care about Sonic?

That's why it's necessary that Sonic get in good with the critics, and I mean REALLY good. They're the best word of mouth a game can have.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Wraith

April 22, 2013

There's really no way to please everyone in the series, and its obvious Sonic Team are aiming for its younger fans because there are a lot more of them than fans who've been with the franchise for years. Kids love Sonic.

April 22, 2013

I honestly think that people should put aside their stupid ideas about it and actually play the new games before they go around calling it a "bad franchise".

If only it were that easy. So many people are just too bigoted, though, and unwilling to give it a chance. The bulk of my friends are like this with regards to Sonic; we can discuss a few games well but after that it turns hostile. I've had to ban most of my friends from discussing the subject with me as a result.

There's really no way to please everyone in the series, and its obvious Sonic Team are aiming for its younger fans because there are a lot more of them than fans who've been with the franchise for years. Kids love Sonic.

Plus with how most of the older fans bash on the franchise barring a few classics and have moved onto Call of Duty, of course SEGA's not going to give much about them. You go towards wherever the market is. Kids are just easier to please. Plus, how many grown people are going to buy those plushies, or t-shirts, or toys? While there are some hardcore adult fans, let's be honest, it's not where Sonic does best.

April 22, 2013

Honestly Sonic will ALWAYS be considered a bad franchise by a lot of people, even a steady string of good/awesome games won't make people suddenly forget about 06/Shadow etc., and the very fact it's changed a lot over the years means that people, even critics and generally, don't agree on what makes the games good or not good. So it's basically not possible to create "that game" that everyone is waiting for, because "that game" differs from person to person.

Also with regards to the fanbase overrating Sonic... okay it doesn't have the best quality out there, but what fanbase DOESN'T overrate the series they like in question? The fans like it more than most others, that's what separates them from the "normal" people who are indifferent to it, or those that "like it but aren't really particularly passionate about it".

There's also a bunch of stuff with how it fell to 06 levels in the first place. Sonic used to be considered one of the greats, so it's "badness" is more of a big deal. Series that were never that good in the first place are kind of just ignored outright, but Sonic is so notable in the decline of quality (until Unleashed, and with the exception of the handheld games) that people will continue to bash it. Sonic's high profile ended up hurting it really badly once the quality of the games dropped. However, building up a good reputation again is a long and hard slog, especially after people have been burned with some of the titles. Once reputation and trust is destroyed or reduced, it's very difficult to win people back over.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Semi-colon e

April 22, 2013

I think the main reason we tend to overrate the franchise is because of all the hate it recieves. We naturally feel obligated to defend it, and sometimes get out of hand while doing so. I doubt most of us actually think Sonic is the best franchise ever.

April 22, 2013

To be honest I knew people back in the '90s who said Sonic was a bad franchise, that the comics and TV shows were terrible, that the character was overrated and would never be as good as Mario. At least in my experience, Sonic being perceived as a bad franchise is not new to the post Heroes era.

I think the main reason we tend to overrate the franchise is because of all the hate it recieves. We naturally feel obligated to defend it, and sometimes get out of hand while doing so. I doubt most of us actually think Sonic is the best franchise ever.

As a child and young teenager, I was certainly like this. I was bullied a lot at school, so this made me all the more fierce when I would hear people bashing my beloved favourite video game character! It must have been quite annoying for everyone else and was probably counter-productive, but whatevs. I was a kid, I didn't think about these things!

Edited April 22, 2013 by MamboCat

April 22, 2013

I think the main reason we tend to overrate the franchise is because of all the hate it recieves. We naturally feel obligated to defend it, and sometimes get out of hand while doing so. I doubt most of us actually think Sonic is the best franchise ever.

Oh yeah, I always step up to the plate when some person starts bashing it. It doesn't help that despite Nintendo and SEGA's rivalry having ended a decade ago some folks STILL bring up that old conflict. There are times people just go on "Well yeah of course Sonic's in Wreck-It Ralph SEGA's just so desperate for money," and I find my patience being really quickly tested. I've learned to make use of ignore buttons for great justice.

He will always be the greatest franchise to me as a person.

would never be as good as Mario.

As a child and young teenager, I was certainly like this. I was bullied a lot at school, so this made me all the more fierce when I would hear people bashing my beloved favourite video game character!

On "never being as good as Mario," those folks conveniently forget Mario came out 6 years prior to Sonic, and was naturally entrenched. Most folks will have had Nintendo consoles by that time and be firmly devoted to Mario. It must be awfully convenient to forget the saying of "the early bird gets the worm."

I still get defensive. I've handed out candy on Halloween dressed as Sonic 3 times in a row these last few years, and more than once I've got a "Mario is better" remark. I wanted to shut the door in those kids' faces for being rude, but then they'd egg my house. Halloween: Legal Extortion Day.

Fortunately ever since they condemned that neighborhood up the street we haven't gotten any Sonic bashers on Halloween... good riddance!

April 22, 2013

The way I see it, if gamers can forgive Raiden from the Metal Gear series after his shit debut before his improvement in MGS4 and Rising, I don't see how Sonic can't be redeemed either.

But the real question is how to redeem him. And considering the overly critical nature of older gamers compared to younger ones, that's not gonna be easy.

April 22, 2013

The way I see it, if gamers can forgive Raiden from the Metal Gear series after his shit debut before his improvement in MGS4 and Rising, I don't see how Sonic can't be redeemed either.

But the real question is how to redeem him. And considering the overly critical nature of older gamers compared to younger ones, that's not gonna be easy.

Our culture's biased towards macho characters and series. So that's probably why Raiden can be forgiven, because he's "manly" and will appeal to the demographic.

Sonic? Doesn't seem very manly, unless we're talking about the times Ken Penders drew him as a bodybuilder. I don't think it's a coincidence SEGA considers him a kid's character.

It really, really sucks, but that's what my observation is. Folks are head over heels for games with muscles, guns, swearing, pointless explosions and violence. Sonic doesn't fit these (and the time we tried it it flopped horribly), so he's had to sell on nostalgia and the like because otherwise he can't tap into that older, more influential demographic.

...which really just highlights the need to tell the reviewers to screw off entirely. They have marketing clout, certainly, but that's really the only reason to try and please them whatsoever. And unfortunately the only way to please them is to cut the cast and storyline to almost nothing and make Run Straight, the Game.

We're in a bit of a pickle, sadly.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Ogilvie Maurice

April 22, 2013

Most People you'll find hating on Sonic:

Biased critics that either can't get over 06, or are simply 2d purists that expect most Sonic games to either return to 2d, or replicate everything from the classics.
Nintendo fanboys that simply state Mario is much better, because he didn't have an enormous drop in quality for a couple years.
Squeakers that play too much COD and Minecraft, who think Sonic sucks and is " for babies."

I think the main reason Sonic gets so much flack, even these days after titles like Colors and Generations received positive reception, is the drop in quality/ poor reviews starting with Shadow the Hedgehog. People had their hopes crushed after 06 was released, and didn't like games such as Secret Rings, Unleashed, and Black Knight overall, due to either disliking 3d Sonic in general, or not being fond of the gimmicks these games introduced.

Honestly? I believe people need to get the fuck over 06. I can't imagine how disappointing it was to play nearly 7 years ago, but Sonic Team has tried their best to please the fanbase, after so many people weren't fond of the werehog in Unleashed, and the sword play in Black Knight. Colors was composed of slowed down daytime stages in Unleashed, but primarily in 2d, and Generations was a complete love letter to the Sonic fanbase. 2d classic Sonic, 3d modern Sonic focusing on the daytime stages gameplay in Unleashed that was well liked overall, and remade levels from every mainstream Sonic title. No, I don't find the series bad at all. I'm grateful to the existence of 06, since it made Sonic Team realize they needed to go back to the drawing board and improve the gameplay of the series, and while I'm not fond of Unleashed overall, it did show us the Sonic series was starting to improve after 06 and Secret Rings.

May 5, 2013

So almost 2 years later since this thread was made. Why/is Sonic still considered a Bad Franchise?

Because people like you bump shitty topics that were made by terrible OPs.

Sonic needs to stop having good/decent games and have a "Mario Galaxy" type of game. A 85% or more critically acclaimed game that will put Sonic on the map again. Otherwise he's still be considered a low tier series.

Will that honestly even fix things? Tbh I still think Sonic's past the point of redemption in the public's eyes. Hell, even here on SSMB the good (or more so games that don't have any major flaws in them) ones like Colors and Generations are constantly being debated as to whether they're actually good or not.

Not just us but tons of other Sonic sites out there as well do this. I just keep wondering "How can we expect people to consider Sonic a good franchise if Sonic fans themselves don't even think of it as a good franchise."

Sonic's just roadkill at this point. Even if by some miracle Sonic Team starts putting out 100% Metacritic Sonic games, those tire scars ain't going away. Ever.

May 5, 2013

Well that seems to be a problem of the fans not being able to not let shit go then Sonic's quality as a franchise.

May 5, 2013

People just like to hate. I'd say 1/4th of the franchise is bad - from '03 to '08. People who love to hate tend to dwell on that period, and act as though it was so bad that it ruined even the old days and the modern games. They're idiots, ignore them.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Barry the Nomad

May 5, 2013

Because people like you bump shitty topics that were made by terrible OPs.

First of all, this kind of sniping isn't necessary, and I can't even figure out why you felt justified in doing it. Don't do it again.

Second, I think people are unnecessarily cynical about the franchise at this point. Most of the general public loves Colors and Generations, as do most of the fans from what I've witnessed. What debate about these games comes down to is not whether or not they're good or bad, but rather how good they are. Some people think they're fucking amazing while others think they're merely passable, and it's a nuanced argument that gets mischaracterized as generic "you either love it or hate it". That in turn makes things seem more bleak than they really are. Rather, I think things have been looking up for years to some degree.

May 5, 2013

I think you missed the joke Nintendoga was making. Look at who the shitty topic creator is.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Get Over Here

May 5, 2013

First of all, this kind of sniping isn't necessary, and I can't even figure out why you felt justified in doing it. Don't do it again.

Second, I think people are unnecessarily cynical about the franchise at this point. Most of the general public loves Colors and Generations, as do most of the fans from what I've witnessed. What debate about these games comes down to is not whether or not they're good or bad, but rather how good they are. Some people think they're fucking amazing while others think they're merely passable, and it's a nuanced argument that gets mischaracterized as generic "you either love it or hate it". That in turn makes things seem more bleak than they really are. Rather, I think things have been looking up for years to some degree.

Oh no you've got it wrong, me and Eddy are cool, we joke around like that alot. It's not meant to be offensive, but yeah that should've been more private. I'll remove it if you guys want.

But onto the cynical thing. I guess why most of us Sonic fans are more cynical is (obviously) because of how attached we are to the series. I can't really find the right words to put it, but it's like this. If someone who likes games in general plays Shadow or 06, they're probably just gonna say "Oh, well that sucked" and just move on. Sonic fans however, are gonna dissect every flaw within the game, explain why this or that is terrible, and why it didn't work and why it's such a failure for what it tried to do.

Other fanbases do this with their franchises as well, but the thing is we've had alot more games that (while i won't say were bad outright) had extremely noticeable flaws. Games that constantly came out right after another, another flaw after another. I think if we had a few games that were well received like Generations released in between some of these games, the fans would be less cynical and more hopeful for the franchise then they are right now.

I mean don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Sonic die off or anything. I'm just looking at the current possible solutions for the franchise, and none of them end up with Sonic being back on top and being regarded as "an amazing franchise" again.

Edit: looking back on the post, I can't really speak about what the public thinks of Sonic. I don't think many Sonic fans can do so either. When you're a fan of something it's pretty hard to say what the general public thinks of your games without putting your fanboyism into the mix.

I think you missed the joke Nintendoga was making. Look at who the shitty topic creator is.

that was kinda the joke.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Nintendoga

May 5, 2013

Sorry: my sensors get set to stun when I see stuff like that, especially when leaving insults alone is grounds for judgement from others. @3@

Anyway, I don't think closer introspection on certain media works ultimately amounts to cynicism; I think that only happens when people's arguments come from an inherently cynical viewpoint, as in "I hate this with all my heart and soul and here's why," or like I said, when people massively construe the nuances of an opinion or overall debate as being cynical and leaving it at that. An example would be the peeves topic: people will look at the massive amount of pages it has and assume, "Fuck, they don't like anything," when a lot of the contributing dialogue is actually in defense of something or the bringing to light of something people feel is underrated. "I wish people didn't hate on SA1/Heroes/Unleashed so much! These games have something to offer!" or "I wish other characters got more attention because they're cool and interesting." A lot of the peeves there come from a place of lamenting that something isn't as loved as it should be, which I wouldn't call cynical at all.

I also think you can get a gist on the public opinion of a franchise regardless of your investment in it merely by reading the opinions of general gaming sites and aggregate review sites, and by starting dialogue with real life gamers. I'm not saying my anecdotes are statistical fact or anything, but in doing all three, I can't help but note general improvement in the franchise's reputation, even to the point where I've seen people go back to retroactively defend Unleashed of all things. It's also one of the reasons I personally can't stand to hear people complaining that Colors and Generations are underrated. Just step outside of SSMB and you'll be more likely to bump into a genuine admirer than someone who hates them (and even that is disregarding the fact that most of SSMB doesn't hate these games either anyway.)