Why is Sonic considered a bad Franchise?

[Nepenthe]

I don't think Azure's particularly wrong, per se; The perception of something's quality doesn't exist in a vacuum. The circumstances surrounding a work- like the pedigree of a franchise or its makers- can potentially skew its reception up or down regardless of its actual craftsmanship. Of course reviewers are going to look at the aspects of a game to give a decent review, but how they review those aspects will inevitably be affected by this kind of historical bias. If the Sonic franchise was putting out games of Mario Galaxy's caliber on the regular, and then something of Colors' level came along, can anyone honestly say with conviction we would've definitely seen the same level of kindness in the reviews?

[Soniman]

I don't think Azure's particularly wrong, per se; The perception of something's quality doesn't exist in a vacuum. The circumstances surrounding a work- like the pedigree of a franchise or its makers- can potentially skew its reception up or down regardless of its actual craftsmanship. Of course reviewers are going to look at the aspects of a game to give a decent review, but how they review those aspects will inevitably be affected by this kind of historical bias. If the Sonic franchise was putting out games of Mario Galaxy's caliber on the regular, and then something of Colors' level came along, can anyone honestly say with conviction we would've definitely seen the same level of kindness in the reviews?

 

 

Well of course not, but if we bother consider every hypothetical possibility of what the series would of been before the relase of Colors, we'll be here all day. And really, can't this sort of logic be applied to every game in Colors shoes (or hell, not even in Colors shoes)?

[WarioBone]

Or consumers are idiots, yeah I guess that makes more sense

 

That was pretty much the point of my statement.

[Nepenthe]

Well of course not, but if we bother consider every hypothetical possibility of what the series would of been before the relase of Colors, we'll be here all day. And really, can't this sort of logic be applied to every game in Colors shoes (or hell, not even in Colors shoes)?

 

What are you talking about? We don't need to entertain every hypothetical to illustrate the point that the reputation of a franchise or  a producer will create a bias in the perception of a work's quality coming directly from that franchise or producer, nor do we need to do so to apply this to Colors' case to illustrate that- yes- the fact that it didn't endeavor to do anything to piss anyone off like past Sonic games probably had a hand in making people more receptive to it than they otherwise would've been if the franchise was putting out excellent games regularly.

[Kuzu]

Wow....just wow. I don't know if we were having the same arguement, but NOWHERE was I arguing about what I thought of Colors or what you thought of it. Like, my god, where did that even come from? Lets ignore the sweeping generalzations and overblown accusations here and go back a bit, I thought we were debating about what the PUBLIC thought of Colors not what we personally thought of it?

The arguement you gave was that Colors was only enjoyed by reviewers soely on the basis that it was Unleashed minus the bad stuff and nothing more, my counter-arguement was that critics WERE able to look at Colors based on it's own aspects and praise the things that did stick out. They praised the Wisp system for being fun and intuitive, they praised the new voice cast due to being more professional sounding and better acted, which was in turn held by the also praised saturday morning cartton-esque writing which the critics also enjoyed for the most part because they thought it suited Sonic. There, that's three original Colors-centric aspects that was what also helped the game earn a favorable rep among critics.

I frankly don't really care how YOU felt about the game, that wasn't even a factor in this arguement in the first place.

I dunno, because most people found it enjoyable regardless and/or didn't find it to be that way? Opinions and blah blah blah.....

Or consumers are idiots, yeah I guess that makes more sense

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Ok, since you obviously are pissed off for some reason, Im gonna drop this and let you take a chill pill.

[Soniman]

What are you talking about? We don't need to entertain every hypothetical to illustrate the point that the reputation of a franchise or  a producer will create a bias in the perception of a work's quality coming directly from that franchise or producer, nor do we need to do so to apply this to Colors' case to illustrate that- yes- the fact that it didn't endeavor to do anything to piss anyone off like past Sonic games probably had a hand in making people more receptive to it than they otherwise would've been if the franchise was putting out excellent games regularly.

 

You're saying that Colors wouldn't be as well recieved as it was if the series was making Galaxy-quality games beforehand, well of course, that's not even an argument really it's pretty much near-fact even. Saying "this good game wouldn't have been as well recieved if better games were being made beforehand" is a kind of obvious assumption isn't it?

 

 

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Ok, since you obviously are pissed off for some reason, Im gonna drop this and let you take a chill pill.

 

........

 

You know what, sure. Since you appear to be missing the point anyway, ill just drop this argument seeing as how it's not getting anywhere.

 

Guess ill go cool off this non-existatnt anger now.

[Sean]

Yeah maybe both of you need to lay down if you're seriously gonna get in a pointlessly heated fight.

 

Keep it cool guys.

[MegasonicZX]

I can't help but think that the reason people "dislike" the Sonic franchise is because.  Well.  The Sonic fanbase is so big that everyone has a different choice for what they want in the games.  E.G. Balena Productions believes that Roger-Craig Smith is the worst Sonic voice ever yet some other fan believes otherwise.

 

Which is why in my opinion (I am ready for your rage) that Sonic Team/SEGA should just make what they want to make with Sonic and not have anyone else interfere with it.  Sometimes people don't know know what they want but do it anyway.

Honestly, I have to agree with this, this fanbase is very confused as to what it truly wants in terms of different aspects of the game. Its better to just let sega do what they do and stop trying to change it (plus in all honesty what everybody considers the "dark ages of sonic" is my fun ages and still is. That Includes sonic 06.

[Nepenthe]

You're saying that Colors wouldn't be as well recieved as it was if the series was making Galaxy-quality games beforehand, well of course, that's not even an argument really it's pretty much near-fact even. Saying "this good game wouldn't have been as well recieved if better games were being made beforehand" is a kind of obvious assumption isn't it?

Indeed! It is an obvious assumption, and it was the assumption Azure was trying to make before the whole thing went south due to what I assume is a miscommunication, e.g., him suggesting that it was the only reason Colors was well received. My whole thing was, he is right to some degree (rather both of you are); the critics were kind to Colors based partly on franchise's awful reputation. This doesn't mean it isn't a good game, but it being merely good isn't the only component of its reception.

In short, both of you had a go at each other for each having sensible points. Good job yo. =P

[Kuzu]

Opinions, how do they work XP

[Masterofnone169]

Honestly, I have to agree with this, this fanbase is very confused as to what it truly wants in terms of different aspects of the game. Its better to just let sega do what they do and stop trying to change it (plus in all honesty what everybody considers the "dark ages of sonic" is my fun ages and still is. That Includes sonic 06.

Well.  It's not that fact that the fans don't know what they want (I personally see that as another fan saying "they don't have my opinion so I'm going to make them sound as they are wrong).  But more of the fact that the fan base is HUGE and everyone wants different things.

Not to mention, I grew up in the dark age of Sonic so I love Heroes and a fair amount of Shadow.

[battletoad]

I think sonic hasn't become as "classic as mario".  Mario games can pretty much get away using the exact same plot every single time.  Where sonic at least tries to keep things fresh and interesting.  I personally feel that sonic is just as classic as mario.

[Splash the Otter]

I think sonic hasn't become as "classic as mario".  Mario games can pretty much get away using the exact same plot every single time.  Where sonic at least tries to keep things fresh and interesting.  I personally feel that sonic is just as classic as mario.

I'm confused by this post. The first and last sentences kind of contradict each other.

[Semi-colon e]

While it is true that Mario has been allowed to do "anything" because it's been established since the SNES days while Sonic mainly stuck to his platformers, it's not true that Mario is getting away with doing the same thing over and over again. He was for a long time, but a lot of people are getting a bit sick of it.

 

It does help that nobody plays Mario games (the main ones anyway) for plot.

[Nepenthe]

I'd contest that a lot of people getting sick of Mario's predictability are probably a loud minority, because the only consequences he's suffered from it that I know of is just some Internet bitching. So in the grand scheme of things, he's still getting away with doing the same thing over and over again.

[Kuzu]

Since Mario codified the entire platform genre, and his games are at they least, good he can do anything and no one will complsin

[TheDanimator]

To the best of my knowledge...all of these games are pretty well liked by almost everyone...

Sonic 1

Sonic 2
Sonic 3
Sonic and Knuckles

Sonic CD
Sonic Adventure

Sonic Adventure 2

Sonic Advance 1 and 2

Sonic Colors

Sonic Generations
Sonic all star racing

To the best of my knowledge these are the games that people think are pretty decent but not amazing (the majority of people still seem to like them though)

Sonic Rush
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Sonic Riders
Sonic 3d blast 
Sonic R
Sonic 4 episode 2
Sonic Unleashed

Sonic Heroes

These are the ones that get the most hate

Sonic 06
Sonic 4 episode 1
Sonic Chronicles

Shadow the hedgehog
Black Knight

Sonic simply shouldn't be considered a bad franchise because more of his games are well liked than not.
Theres even a good amount of people that have fun with someof the games on the hated list, Including myself.

 

Edited May 14, 2013 by TheDanimator

[azoo]

Like I said before, I mostly blame it on the weird crevices of the fandom, and the general inconsistency the series has outside of the games (and for a certain period of time, even inside the games). The fact that there was a downspiral in quality starting Heroes, two incredibly embarrassingly bad mainstream titles in a row (Shadow & 06), and one good game that unintentionally made itself look bad (Unleashed) amplified this.

[spinny]

Most of the time, I believe Sonic is considered a bad series because of HOW MUCH Sega tried to hype up '06, even more than any other Sonic game. Look at this trailer.

 

 

That made a LOT of people excited. After the shit stain that was Shadow (I kinda have a soft spot for Shadow, but note that it is considered shit by most people) Sega was redeeming themselves!? There was all that hype, and people were even getting excited to see Elise and Silver. The press were lied to, being told that the glitches and slow load times would not be in the final retail version of the game.

 

The game comes out. Takes a damn nosedive as soon as the first person gets to the hub world. We all know where it goes from here.

 

Unleashed's first trailer came out, showing Savannah Citadel (and note, the theme's a remix of the Sonic 1 8-bit ending, which could be trying to imply a throwback to Sonic roots for all we could know at the time), and then the Werehog is introduced. People compare it to the overflowing amount of gameplay styles in '06 and the guns in Shadow. While it turned out technically decent (not very glitchy at all, actually), people were still angry over '06 and considered it as "shit", and claimed "SEGA WILL NEVER REDEEM THE FRANCHISE!!!11!!1!" While to the most part, they have, but the fans always just keep bringing up '06 and the disappointments of it, and they always will.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Super Spindash

[TheChris1]

Because people seem to think that it's cool to hate Sonic.

 

That's it. Do you really think all these "10 Justin Bieber fans disliked it" comments on YouTube are there because they hate the music so much? No. They think it is cool to write this and they are funny if they do that.

 

Do you think all of these "Call of Duty sucks"-people gave the game a fair chance? No.

 

But yes, mostly there are reasons why these things are hated by so many people.

 

Although I think Sonic reputation isn't so bad at all. The low of Sonics reputation was between 2005-2009 but I think in 2013 most people are ok with the series.

 

Note: I don't know wether Justin Biebers music or Call of Duty are good or bad. I have no idea of those things.

[ElectricAngel]

Actually, 3 people I know hated Sonic but Sonic Dash on iOS somehow got them back in the series... I will never understand

[Your Vest Friend]

If they hated Sonic for superfluous reasons, then I'd imagine just about any prompt could convince them otherwise. 

[ElectricAngel]

Besides those 3 people that now somehow for some reason like Sonic after experiencing Sonic Dash, every single other person I know hates Sonic because "It is childish, mindless, the graphics are bad and it's not mature like Call of Duty" or something along the lines of that. Just replace Call of Duty with any other M rated game and there you have 90% of the people I know. Not to mention everyone else who isn't a gamer calls Sonic gay. I even know a 6 year old who said "I play GTA because Sonic is for babies" and I was just shocked. I really don't get the hate behind this character. It's hard being a Sonic fan in the Middle East. 

 

Edit: I'm not sure how people think of Sonic in the U.S. because I haven't been there since 2007 and that year Sonic was pretty popular from what I remember, despite the 2006 mess.

Edited May 15, 2013 by lefteri001