Let's go out of the box for a minute.

[ChikaBoing]

Super mario galaxy was just perfection if not close. How they made a better sequal by making better designed levels is just beyond me. But bringing nintendo into the conversation

People always say this, but I don't see it all. How did Mario Galaxy 2 specifically improve on the first one,outside of the removal the Hub? It has different mechanics and Level Design but not better.

BTW making the whole game 2D (Colors) is definitly not the Limitation of improving of the Unleashed formula.

[Sami]

Super mario galaxy was just perfection if not close. How they made a better sequal by making better designed levels is just beyond me. But bringing nintendo into the conversation only puts sonic to bigger shame.

I disagree. I don't know about you, but to me, the only two issues with Unleashed's gameplay that need to be addressed are how Sonic controls at slow speeds, and the lackluster amount of platforming involved in the level design. Simply building the levels with less automation should suffice in fixing the second problem, and considering the later levels of Unleashed did this anyway, I don't see how this is an issue that makes the design of the game itself to be a flaw. Plus, this is ignoring the fact that Unleashed wasn't entirely focused on this style of gameplay, which requires Sonic's levels to either have greater jumps in difficulty or avoid getting ridiculously difficult altogether.

The first problem can easily be fixed with a bit of tweaking. Considering they have C. Sonic's gameplay already built, why not make M. Sonic control the same way in 2D (when not boosting, of course)? They would simply be borrowing from their own resources and improving at the same time. The 3D perspective will only take a bit of tweaking as well. To be fair though, I know nothing about game design, so maybe it's easier said then done, but why can't they simply make Sonic's controls tighten depending on how fast he's going? Sonic Adventure would have greatly benefited from this.

This. Sonic colors showed that they could still make something decent out of it, but it's flaws and limitations are obvious. Building and improving from an allready solid foundation is certainly not a bad thing if you can make something better out of it. Sonic unleashed, knowing the formula is just going to feel the same.

Of course the formula is going to feel the same. That's the point of a sequel. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask feels the same as The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Hell, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess feels like a more polished version of Ocarina of Time. The same applies to Pokemon, F-Zero, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Ratchet and Clank, Metroid Prime, Super Smash Brothers, Halo, CoD, Killzone, Metal Gear Solid, and tons of other games.

The entire formula doesn't need to be reinvented every game for it to feel fresh and new. All this particular formula needs are polished controls and slightly changed level design.

Classic sonic gameplay is the biggest offender in all of this tbh. It's obvious that they actually tried to replicate the original physics this time but if they're not able to replicate them now, when will they? I know why I liked the classics over any other platformer that existed. I cannot settle for something that I would probably like less

It doesn't need to be a perfect replica to work well. Sonic 4 wasn't bad because it wasn't like the classics, it was bad because it had tons of problems with the engine, level design, and amount of original content.

From what we've seen from this, not only is it possible for it to be a perfect replica, but it's almost guaranteed to be fun, at least for me.

[Scar]

Back to the original point at hand.

Looking at this from a neutral point of veiw. No bias towards or against anything.

Generations looks like the Sonic Game we've been waiting for, for years. All I see is Sonic. The Sonic I knew from my childhood, and the Sonic of today. I don't see a Werehog, I don't see a talking sword, I don't see a story book, I don't see a big purple cat fishing for a frog, I don't see mech shooting, I don't see emerald hunting. All of the things that turning a non-fan away from the Series after SA1/2 is no longer present.

All I see is classic Sonic running from the left to the right, and all I see is modern Sonic running at blasing speeds.

Finally a Sonic game I wanted. Something which is unintrusively fun. Bits of classic platforming goodness and bits of adrenaline rush gameplay. There is no slow, boring, tedious, poorly designed gameplay or additions in sight that could possibly look like it could ruin my fun.

Not as good as Mario Galaxy 3 3DS, but one of the best patformers this year for sure.

There is nothing wrong with the game. If its not to your tastes, then don't play it.

I for one know that at the very least, there will be a few hours of good fun in this, perhaps more depending on how captivating it is.

[Badnik Zero]

My neutral take actually came from my girlfriend's reaction to the trailer. She said Classic Sonic looks great. For Modern Sonic she asked, "How do you control him?" and "It kind of plays itself doesn't it?" Unleashed style is the weak link here, I think. Not that it's a bad style, but play and level design could stand to be more complex.

[Tatsumaki]

Every time I see someone say this about Super Mario Galaxy 2 or New Super Mario Bros. Wii, I want to groan. And people call Generations an evolution.

Direct sequels that play near identical to the original aren't evil, guys. Mario's done it before, Sonic's done it before (Sonic 2, Rush Adventure). Mega Man is also infamous for this. I have no qualms about companies making sequels that polish up the original if the formula is solid.

Uh, broseph? We're talking about Sonic here, the most criticized video game character since fucking E.T. I never said Sonic Generations was an evolution at all. In fact, quite the opposite. This is the epitome of playing it safe. In the situation SEGA is found in right now, it's the only thing they can do to win the hearts of millions of fans once more. Characters such as Mario, Rockman, and other countless people don't need to make the same gameplay all the time because they CAN get innovative. Why? Because their fans are currently supporting them one-hundred percent, unlike SEGA. They can't just risk anything as bad as 06. Again, I repeat myself. Mario HAS no reason to play it safe, since so many people go apeshit on him every time he gets a new game. Sad and butthurt-inducing, but true.

[Voyant]

Uh, broseph? We're talking about Sonic here, the most criticized video game character since fucking E.T. I never said Sonic Generations was an evolution at all. In fact, quite the opposite. This is the epitome of playing it safe. In the situation SEGA is found in right now, it's the only thing they can do to win the hearts of millions of fans once more. Characters such as Mario, Rockman, and other countless people don't need to make the same gameplay all the time because they CAN get innovative. Why? Because their fans are currently supporting them one-hundred percent, unlike SEGA. They can't just risk anything as bad as 06. Again, I repeat myself. Mario HAS no reason to play it safe, since so many people go apeshit on him every time he gets a new game. Sad and butthurt-inducing, but true.

This...soooo this man.

Mario has...a fighting game...

An RPG genre...

A Racing Genre...

Sports games out the ass...

Party Games...

Sonic has 1 successful racing game and that was Sega All Stars Racing...fantastic game...the first thing I heard when it was announced...is "Why is sonic in a car?"

Mario can do whatever it wants and get support for it. Sonic can't do anything cause everytime Sonic tries something new it get bashed to all hell.

Its like its own cycle. Sonic Team announces something new....people kinda enjoy it....ST makes another game out of it with improvements people say its getting old and they need to try something new. Then people bitch about Sonic Team trying something new since its not what they wanted....its just gets ridiculous.

This is why I support what ST is doing...they are sticking to a style and rolling with it. After a while I didn't find Colors as much fun as I did the Daytime Stages in Unleash HD, but it still a success in my eyes because I DID enjoy it...thinking that every single game ST is going to come up with is going to tickle my fancy in the long term, EVERY TIME is so unrealistic.

I love Halo 1...didn't like Halo 2...liked Halo 3 more than Halo 2, but not as much as Halo 1....Halo Reach is my favorite.

But that doesn't mean I found any of theses titles bad...they were fun while I was playing it...and as long as Sonic Team makes consistent enjoyable titles...they are doing good in my eyes and need to keep up the pace. I will eventually get my Halo Reach with Sonic, just got to wait a bit.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Voyant

[Tatsumaki]

This...soooo this man.

Mario has...a fighting game...

An RPG genre...

A Racing Genre...

Sports games out the ass...

Party Games...

Sonic has 1 successful racing game and that was Sega All Stars Racing...fantastic game...the first thing I heard when it was announced...is "Why is sonic in a car?"

Mario can do whatever it wants and get support for it. Sonic can't do anything cause everytime Sonic tries something new it get bashed to all hell.

Its like its own cycle. Sonic Team announces something new....people kinda enjoy it....ST makes another game out of it with improvements people say its getting old and they need to try something new. Then people bitch about Sonic Team trying something new since its not what they wanted....its just gets ridiculous.

This is why I support what ST is doing...they are sticking to a style and rolling with it. After a while I didn't find Colors as much fun as I did the Daytime Stages in Unleash HD, but it still a success in my eyes because I DID enjoy it...thinking that every single game ST is going to come up with is going to tickle my fancy in the long term, EVERY TIME is so unrealistic.

I love Halo 1...didn't like Halo 2...liked Halo 3 more than Halo 2, but not as much as Halo 1....Halo Reach is my favorite.

But that doesn't mean I found any of theses titles bad...they were fun while I was playing it...and as long as Sonic Team makes consistent enjoyable titles...they are doing good in my eyes and need to keep up the pace. I will eventually get my Halo Reach with Sonic, just got to wait a bit.

Um... Brawl isn't Mario's game. It may say Smash Bros., but really, it's all Nintendo's characters, including Mario. But, if you insist... Then that's also a good Sonic fighting game, don't you think? He IS in there, after all. And, all those games have horrible ratings and every sane gamer either hates the games, dislikes them, or say they're from decent to mediocre games; with the exception of Mario Kart (which I personally enjoy, but it's getting extremely monotonous) and RPG games. (Heh... There are only three games available: SNES, GBA, DS. If ya wanna include Paper Mario, cool with me. But you can't deny that they're in minority and like, not acknowledged by gamers everywhere.)

Since you mentioned the Halo thing... Well yeah. I never said Generations was gonna be the KEWLEST GAEM OF ALL TIMEE. I merely said that this will probably make the fans feel a bit more safe now that Sonic Team is finally making games that are worth playing now. Generations will help SEGA formulate VARIOUS Halo Reaches.

And... The Sonic Cycle started to slowly die since Unleashed, and Colours basically killed it, so I honestly don't know what people are talking about. The Sonic Cycle isn't even a cycle at all. Only Black Knight and 06 were horrible.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Rusty Spy]

Characters such as Mario, Rockman, and other countless people don't need to make the same gameplay all the time because they CAN get innovative. Why? Because their fans are currently supporting them one-hundred percent, unlike SEGA. They can't just risk anything as bad as 06. Again, I repeat myself. Mario HAS no reason to play it safe, since so many people go apeshit on him every time he gets a new game. Sad and butthurt-inducing, but true.

No, if any game company manages to pull something like 06 (hell if they manage to pull Heroes, Shadow, and 06 back to back to back), fans have EVERY right to go apeshit every time they a new game because the devs have already demonstrated that they have absolutely no clue what they're doing, or simply don't give a shit.

The reason people support a new Mario game or a new Megaman game is because they have a good track record. The devs have shown that they're actually competent at making good games. What Sonic Team have demonstrated between 03 and 06 was that they're just sitting around their offices staring at the wall tiles and letting Sonic ride on his nostalgia for a couple years because making good games is haaaard. People have lost trust in Sonic Team. People don't think they are capable of making good games anymore. That's not butthurt, that's what happens when you screw up, especially to the extent Sonic Team have.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Black Spy

[Tatsumaki]

No, if any game company manages to pull something like 06 (hell if they manage to pull Heroes, Shadow, and 06 back to back to back), fans have EVERY right to go apeshit every time they a new game because the devs have already demonstrated that they have absolutely no clue what they're doing, or simply don't give a shit.

The reason people support a new Mario game or a new Megaman game is because they have a good track record. The devs have shown that they're actually competent at making good games. What Sonic Team have demonstrated between 03 and 06 was that they're just sitting around their offices staring at the wall tiles and letting Sonic ride on his nostalgia for a couple years because making good games is haaaard. People have lost trust in Sonic Team. People don't think they are capable of making good games anymore. That's not butthurt, that's what happens when you screw up, especially to the extent Sonic Team have.

Umm... Pretty much what I've been saying all this time, but none of you read it well? No offense.

To avoid further confusions, I think SEGA's gone down the biological waste dump since Sonic Heroes. In fact, I stopped liking Sonic at that time, and slowly started to hate him. Then came Unleashed, which was amazing. I had hope for Sonic once more. Then came Colours (which I haven't played, but reviews and players say it's good.)

Now, with these two games plus the Classics, they combined both of them to create what would be Sonic Generations: the one game SEGA has made with at least a BIT of effort into. It has the potential to wow fans once more, convincing them to buy future games. Perhaps SA3 will be the result of the possible satisfactory success Generations will have upon us. And maybe after a few more years, they'll revolutionize the Platforming genre. That's literally all I'm saying, you really don't have to think so hard. :/

[Voyant]

Umm... Pretty much what I've been saying all this time, but none of you read it well? No offense.

To avoid further confusions, I think SEGA's gone down the biological waste dump since Sonic Heroes. In fact, I stopped liking Sonic at that time, and slowly started to hate him. Then came Unleashed, which was amazing. I had hope for Sonic once more. Then came Colours (which I haven't played, but reviews and players say it's good.)

Now, with these two games plus the Classics, they combined both of them to create what would be Sonic Generations: the one game SEGA has made with at least a BIT of effort into. It has the potential to wow fans once more, convincing them to buy future games. Perhaps SA3 will be the result of the possible satisfactory success Generations will have upon us. And maybe after a few more years, they'll revolutionize the Platforming genre. That's literally all I'm saying, you really don't have to think so hard. :/

And the only way they are going to do that is to continue with the stride they have with Unleashed Style gameplay. In the long run even if Sonic Team loses a bit of the fanbase because of that..if they continue making enjoyable well made titles with a bit of heart they will regain trust...and essentially newer fans.

In general Sega has been doing pretty god damn well lately. With titles like Bayonetta, Vanquish, Madworld and various other games....for the past 3 years they been doing relatively well and now its starting to rub off on Sonic...well see what happens

Edited May 1, 2011 by Voyant

[the blu blur]

I'll admit I was sad and somewhat disappointed to hear how Sonic 06 turned out, but when Sonic Unleashed came out, it proved to me that the last game before that really was a big fluke, as Unleashed was so much better on a technical level, as well as, polish (heck Sonic's art design for himself and his levels took a significant overhaul compared to the old Sonic Team's level aesthetics). It may take some a little longer to feel the way I do about Sonic currently Everyone has heir speed in trusting again, but hey, its been 5 years, and its slowly going back to how it was before Sonic "goof'd" It won't happen over night, but I can't imagine it being anything short of impossible since this is the same series that came close to dethroning a certain other series. a bit borderline optimism, yeah, but realistically, he should be able to at least reach similar levels comparable to ratchet in due time if this sort of streak continues after Generations.

[Tatsumaki]

And the only way they are going to do that is to continue with the stride they have with Unleashed Style gameplay. In the long run even if Sonic Team loses a bit of the fanbase because of that..if they continue making enjoyable well made titles with a bit of heart they will regain trust...and essentially newer fans.

In general Sega has been doing pretty god damn well lately. With titles like Bayonetta, Vanquish, Madworld and various other games....for the past 3 years they been doing relatively well and now its starting to rub off on Sonic...well see what happens

My thoughts exactly. SEGA HAS been focusing on other games. Sonic isn't exactly as important as he was in the early to mid 90s. You're totally right... SEGA will lose their fans here, but that's not much of an issue. It's better to lose a bit than everything, right? All I mean is, sorta like you've said, (except Ima addin' mah bits mwahahaha) Unleashed showed excellent potential in both dynamic gameplay and difficulty, Colours was amazing, and Generations might just be the Fabio of all our hearts. MIGHT be. Well, HAS to be. They've had the time, and they have the dedicated fanbase. If they fail here, I can assure you that that Sonic will lose one fan in this world, and that is I, Tatsumaki. Doubt that stuff will happen, though, as this game shows promise. Lots of it.

I'll admit I was sad and somewhat disappointed to hear how Sonic 06 turned out, but when Sonic Unleashed came out, it proved to me that the last game before that really was a big fluke, as Unleashed was so much better on a technical level, as well as, polish (heck Sonic's art design for himself and his levels took a significant overhaul compared to the old Sonic Team's level aesthetics). It may take some a little longer to feel the way I do about Sonic currently Everyone has heir speed in trusting again, but hey, its been 5 years, and its slowly going back to how it was before Sonic "goof'd" It won't happen over night, but I can't imagine it being anything short of impossible since this is the same series that came close to dethroning a certain other series. a bit borderline optimism, yeah, but realistically, he should be able to at least reach similar levels comparable to ratchet in due time if this sort of streak continues after Generations.

Totally correct there, man. I think it'll easily take about three, five years for them be in Ratchet&Clank level, and about seven years more for Mario level...! xD But, if we follow what Ruby says, and the gameplay and philosophy the game has as of now, they should be able to release a damned good Sonic game in this fine Holiday 2011.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[ChikaBoing]

No, if any game company manages to pull something like 06 (hell if they manage to pull Heroes, Shadow, and 06 back to back to back), fans have EVERY right to go apeshit every time they a new game because the devs have already demonstrated that they have absolutely no clue what they're doing, or simply don't give a shit.

The reason people support a new Mario game or a new Megaman game is because they have a good track record. The devs have shown that they're actually competent at making good games. What Sonic Team have demonstrated between 03 and 06 was that they're just sitting around their offices staring at the wall tiles and letting Sonic ride on his nostalgia for a couple years because making good games is haaaard. People have lost trust in Sonic Team. People don't think they are capable of making good games anymore. That's not butthurt, that's what happens when you screw up, especially to the extent Sonic Team have.

Heroes wasn't that imcopotent,it actually replied to the critisisms of the Sonic Adventure games, not technically(controls,camera)but conceptually(no alt.gameplay,classic asthetics).

Now if Heroes counts in the bad games like 06,Shadow. Then Sonic Adventure 2 belongs there as well, I mean is it competent to make 20 Levels of non-Sonic gameplay? To make giant Levels and make you hunt for only one object at once? Or long ass corridors of lock on shooters? To me that is just as average as Heroes, and Reviwers imply that as well(specifially when 2 Battle came out).

[Tatsumaki]

Heroes wasn't that imcopotent,it actually replied to the critisisms of the Sonic Adventure games, not technically(controls,camera)but conceptually(no alt.gameplay,classic asthetics).

Now if Heroes counts in the bad games like 06,Shadow. Then Sonic Adventure 2 belongs there as well, I mean is it competent to make 20 Levels of non-Sonic gameplay? To make giant Levels and make you hunt for only one object at once? Or long ass corridors of lock on shooters? To me that is just as average as Heroes, and Reviwers imply that as well(specifially when 2 Battle came out).

I didn't like Sonic Heroes, at all. This coming out of a dude who loved Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 and enjoyed it to the fullest.

Though I respect your opinion. It's cool with me. I just personally didn't like the game at all. I felt that it was broken in many ways, worse than Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 combined. Teamwork gameplay was stupidly pointless, that I'd actually play Knuckles' Chaotix instead. The storyline was horrible, the ending was even worse. All that effort for the unsatisfactory ending of an unsatisfactory video game... Good thing I used Team Rose for the Emeralds. Sonic Heroes is what made me lose all hope for the Sonic Franchise, SEGA, Sonic Team, and anything related to SEGA video games. Well, that and Shadow the Hedgehog. Again, it's my opinion, so don't take it personally.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Rusty Spy]

Heroes wasn't that imcopotent,it actually replied to the critisisms of the Sonic Adventure games, not technically(controls,camera)but conceptually(no alt.gameplay,classic asthetics).

Now if Heroes counts in the bad games like 06,Shadow. Then Sonic Adventure 2 belongs there as well, I mean is it competent to make 20 Levels of non-Sonic gameplay? To make giant Levels and make you hunt for only one object at once? Or long ass corridors of lock on shooters? To me that is just as average as Heroes, and Reviwers imply that as well(specifially when 2 Battle came out).

And?

But honestly, if I REALLY wanted to argue this (I REALLY don't), Heroes wasn't an improvement over SA2 and was mostly a step back. Repetitive gameplay, terrible story, TERRIBLE controls, repetitive gameplay, a team gimmick that was ok at best.

I think it'd help to point out that I actually liked Heroes to an extent.