Sonic's Greatest Rival

[Kuzu]

I'm partial for Sonic having multiple rivals, each representing a different field where they compete in. For the sake of the argument, Imma just use Shadow, Metal, and Jet.

 

 

Shadow has potential to parallel Sonic's sense of heroism; they're both extremely similar in how they do things. They both do what they feel is right regardless of the consequences, or if their actions are deemed morally wrong. They're both vehemently protective of their friends. The divide comes in what they believe is right, and that's where the potential conflict may lie; Sonic goes about saving the world in a laidback, easy going manner and has fun doing so while Shadow serious, and efficient in his methods. Highlight these differences and put them at conflict with each other.

 

Palas kinda already covered Metal so nyeh.

 

 

Jet's unique in that he's the only rival to continuously have a grudge against Sonic after their initial encounter, and still strive to beat him. Even more so, he challenges Sonic in his field of expertise; speed. Jet wants to best Sonic, and Sonic enjoys decent competition, so there you have it.

[Tani Coyote]

Shadow has potential to parallel Sonic's sense of heroism; they're both extremely similar in how they do things. They both do what they feel is right regardless of the consequences, or if their actions are deemed morally wrong. They're both vehemently protective of their friends. The divide comes in what they believe is right, and that's where the potential conflict may lie; Sonic goes about saving the world in a laidback, easy going manner and has fun doing so while Shadow serious, and efficient in his methods. Highlight these differences and put them at conflict with each other.

 

It's a classic conflict, actually. Good cop versus bad cop. Ends justify the means versus means justify the ends mentality. Someone like Sonic would never murder someone to save the world, but I can see Shadow quite easily putting one between Eggman's eyes given the chance (and based on his very game, he is fully capable of it if pushed too hard). Sonic seems to view his deeds as one big game for entertainment, whereas Shadow takes it as a sworn duty... This is one of the rare cases of rivals actually being on the same side, and something that should probably be explored.

 

 

Jet's unique in that he's the only rival to continuously have a grudge against Sonic after their initial encounter, and still strive to beat him. Even more so, he challenges Sonic in his field of expertise; speed. Jet wants to best Sonic, and Sonic enjoys decent competition, so there you have it.

 

Indeed. This more or less makes him a persistent rival. Whereas Metal Sonic's just a tool of Eggman, Jet has his own personal ambitions and desire to one up Sonic. I think this intense personal obsession probably makes him the best candidate for rival, even if he's not the most popular.

[NocturnalTwilight]

I'd honestly have to go with Shadow, I was going to say Metal Sonic, but I think in comparison that Shadow would win by far in terms of who would be a better rival for Sonic. I haven't seen a place where Sonic was managed to get beat by Metal Sonic. If you'll recall in one of Shadow the Hedgehog's many many endings, you'll see that he actually beats Sonic. While I don't believe that would be very accurate, it still shows that Shadow could possibly have what it takes to beat Sonic. I don't see it ever happening (again?), but it just shows that he would be a greater rival for Sonic.

 

In the Sonic OVA, one of the biggest similarities I seen between Sonic and Metal Sonic was that their Speed matched almost perfectly. The same would have to go for Shadow and Sonic (Especially if you played the Sonic VS Shadow battle in Generations!) along with Shadow's insane Chaos Powers and abilities, is why I believe he would be the greater rival for Sonic. 

[Kuzu]

I really wouldn't count Shadow's game as anything credible considering it's entirely dedicated to wanking the shit out of the guy, and making everyone pansies by comparison.

[NocturnalTwilight]

I really wouldn't count Shadow's game as anything credible considering it's entirely dedicated to wanking the shit out of the guy, and making everyone pansies by comparison.

 

I agree, but was it considered Canon? I don't recall if it was or not. Since we never really hear anything relating back to the game or not. The only thing that I see resulting from the game is Shadow not constantly searching for his past anymore. 

[Kuzu]

I agree, but was it considered Canon? I don't recall if it was or not. Since we never really hear anything relating back to the game or not. The only thing that I see resulting from the game is Shadow not constantly searching for his past anymore. 

 

But that's not what you were stating. You stated that because Shadow was portrayed as so superior to Sonic in his game, that it makes him a better rival than Metal Sonic.

[Tani Coyote]

Rivalry usually is supposed to have characters be equal, as well. You're both striving to be better than the other... and it sounds like Shadow's pretty much got all based covered except the Army of Friends thing.

 

I mean really the only reason he and Sonic tie at all, based on Shadow's wide arsenal of powers, is because the plot demands it. He's got protection from failure by merit of not just being a hero, but a mascot.

[Jolt_TH]

Shadow seems pretty competent as a rival, in the first battle you do against him on prison island, both hedgehogs seem pretty tired in the cutscene after the fight, and shadow didn't use any of his powers in the fight. (Not sure if his speed is chaos powered or shadow powered).

Metal sonic is much more of an enemy, only in one game does he strive to be better than him, as well as everyone else. He might have had a good chance of being a decent rival, but he just isn't used enough to be the rival of the MAIN character.

Jet also seems like a good candidate for a decent rival, although only seen in the riders series, he is consistent and is in every one of them to date. He provides a constant challenge to sonic, as he obviously rides ex gear much more frequently. I know sonic is the fastest on his feet, but these games are ex gear championships, so like SaSAS(T) sonic HAS to use a vehicle, in this case ex gear. If I was her I'd be pretty peeved that someone who JUST started ex gear riding was as good if not better than me, when he's obviously had years to practice. I'd want to challenge him, want to be better than him and prove it to said person.

I'd say either shadow or jet, heck maybe both considering its two separate stories (in continuity)

[NocturnalTwilight]

But that's not what you were stating. You stated that because Shadow was portrayed as so superior to Sonic in his game, that it makes him a better rival than Metal Sonic.

 

Okay, I apologize if that's what it sounded like. 

 

I just feel like Shadow would make a better rival. That's pretty much what I was trying to say.

[Tani Coyote]

Shadow seems pretty competent as a rival, in the first battle you do against him on prison island, both hedgehogs seem pretty tired in the cutscene after the fight, and shadow didn't use any of his powers in the fight. (Not sure if his speed is chaos powered or shadow powered).

 

That was my problem, in retrospect it seems very forced that they tie. It's like when two comic book Superheroes fight; as Stan Lee himself said, you have to find SOME way to make them tie. Characters usually tie solely because of meta concerns and nothing in character. Sega can't have their mascot get his ass whooped, but neither can they have their new bad boy be a pushover. So they make them tie.

 

This just seems blatantly forced when you consider Shadow's got his Force Lightning powers and teleportation. And in later games his powers are even further developed, with gigantic explosions summoned relatively easily.

 

In speed they are equal, and Shadow's got quite some strength in those muscles of his. While Sonic can substitute his power deficiency with his speed boost, Shadow can match that. As the AI trolling by jumping whenever you home in on them in SA2 can tell you, he can easily match Sonic move by move, with interest.

 

The only battle they're truly equal in would be the Final Rush/Chase one, where Sonic not only has Chaos Control, but his own (presumably Chaos-based) special attack that can rival the Spear. They are most equal in this fight, with Sonic's speed being able to make up for his lesser strength, and both having the effectively same special abilities. While Shadow has advantages of agelessness, immunity to all diseases, and casual power lifting, in the heat of high speed battle these don't really mean anything.

 

Then after SA2 they more or less left the Chaos Control and other assorted attacks as Shadow's schtick. It isn't so much they wanted Shadow to be Sonic's rival, as much as they didn't want Sonic to be Shadow's rival anymore.

 

I suppose we can conclude that, in the short-term at least, they make for great rivals when each doesn't hold anything back, but due to the fact they're allies now, Sonic feels no need to bring out his full arsenal. He can beat Eggman perfectly fine with his speed alone, he has no need for Shadow's powers.

[Mysterious X]

Well Metal Sonic IS a reasonale answer, but let's give it some thought, it's true that Metal Sonic is designed to copy Sonic and defeat him with his own abilites, but did that ever prevent Sonic from winning? Even when he evolves to the so-called Metal Overlord... Sonic turns super and knocks him out.

I say that Shadow makes much more sense, because Sonic is a bit overrated, and Shadow is the Ultimate Lifeform... Doesn't that make them even?

They match in speed, power, and the use of Chaos power, Shadow sure has some advatages like Chaos Spear and all, but also Sonic might have his own advantages too.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Mysterious X

[Kuzu]

What advantage does Sonic have over Shadow again? Ya know, aside from being the protagonist.

[Mysterious X]

Well now that you mention it, I tried to find some while I was writin the post... The advantages I thought of were stupid, things like "his friends will help any time, any place and no matter what", well I didn't want to edit my post once more and I won't, but just notice that I said "might" because I really didn't think he had ones.

But let's not forget the stupid and utterly overrated fact that the hero always wins.

 

Also you just now made me realize somethin... Metal Sonic could really suit better, because Shadow can't be called a rival of Sonic since bein rivals means havin fairly matched abilities... Right?

Edited March 14, 2013 by Mysterious X

[Kuzu]

Metal Sonic is literally better than Sonic at everything, the only thing inferior is his lack of traction.

In order for two characters to be considered rivals, they should at least have comparable abilities that make them equal. Most of Sonic's rivals however have clear advantages over him that he himself lacks.

[tenchibr]

The term "greatest" is way too subjective.

 

Ask what my favorite one is, and I would say Jet. He actually wants to be known as the fastest creature in the world, which is exactly in Sonic's field.

 

Metal Sonic is more combat based; he doesn't care about beating Sonic in a race; more like a battle to the death kind of thing.

[Jolt_TH]

Metal Sonic is literally better than Sonic at everything, the only thing inferior is his lack of traction.

In order for two characters to be considered rivals, they should at least have comparable abilities that make them equal. Most of Sonic's rivals however have clear advantages over him that he himself lacks.

E.g. Shadow has a TON of chaos powers while sonic has none, shadow matches sonic on every physical ability ... AND unlike sonic, he can swim!

[Mysterious X]

Metal Sonic is literally better than Sonic at everything, the only thing inferior is his lack of traction.

In order for two characters to be considered rivals, they should at least have comparable abilities that make them equal. Most of Sonic's rivals however have clear advantages over him that he himself lacks.

 

I agree... Totally, when I played Sonic the Hedgehog 3 or Sonic and Knuckles (Shadow and Silver weren't there yet) I loved Knuckles, I liked the way he glides and destroys things so freakin easy, but when it comes to Sonic he can't put a finger on him? That's just stupid!

We can say Knuckles is one of those so-called rivals that have many advantages over Sonic.

 

The term "greatest" is way too subjective.

 

Ask what my favorite one is, and I would say Jet. He actually wants to be known as the fastest creature in the world, which is exactly in Sonic's field.

 

Metal Sonic is more combat based; he doesn't care about beating Sonic in a race; more like a battle to the death kind of thing.

 

I agree on that too, Sonic is so much speed-style, those rings and emeralds sometimes make him rather overrated, but still, when it comes to runnin on actual feet, what does Jet have to beat him?

 

E.g. Shadow has a TON of chaos powers while sonic has none, shadow matches sonic on every physical ability ... AND unlike sonic, he can swim!

 

You have a point here don't you? But in some games or cartoon episodes Sonic walked on water, and also I don't see how can the ability to swim be an advantage in real combat, or in speed racin? Unless they are competin in a water environment, only then that would make sense.

As for the Chaos powers... Yup, we did admit several times that Shadow is way too much for Sonic to handle.

[Diogenes]

Rivals don't need to be identical. It's perfectly possible to have a rivalry where there's a power imbalance; isn't one of the common rival-based plots basically "that guy is so strong so I need to get stronger so I can match/beat him"?

[Mysterious X]

Exactly, I need to become stronger so I can finally become his rival... Said Naruto..!

[Kuzu]

Rivals don't need to be identical. It's perfectly possible to have a rivalry where there's a power imbalance; isn't one of the common rival-based plots basically "that guy is so strong so I need to get stronger so I can match/beat him"?

 

 Good rivalries are back & forth, ongoing struggles between two parties. When one of those parties is very much more powerful than the other, it kinda makes the rivalry seem a little onesided.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 Good rivalries are back & forth, ongoing struggles between two parties. When one of those parties is very much more powerful than the other, it kinda makes the rivalry seem a little onesided.

If a rivalry wasn't an archetypal conflict, it would become so stale by this point. A more powerful rival isn't necessarily one-sided, and unbeatable one is.

 

For classic example, Goku is obviously more powerful than Vegeta, but that doesn't stop Vegeta from being able to put him on his toes. There's more to a rivalry's quirk than sheer power alone.

[Kuzu]

If a rivalry wasn't an archetypal conflict, it would become so stale by this point. A more powerful rival isn't necessarily one-sided, and unbeatable one is.

 

For classic example, Goku is obviously more powerful than Vegeta, but that doesn't stop Vegeta from being able to put him on his toes. There's more to a rivalry's quirk than sheer power alone.

True, but when you get down to it, most of Sonic's rivals outclass him in almost every respect, but the way the games are structured(especially nowadays) it tries to make Sonic seem like he's the best despite no evidence to show for it despite Sonic's status as protagonist.

 

I'm not saying Sonic can't be better than his rivals(it's basically a law of Shonen), but I at least would like to be given a credible reason for why that is the case beyond "He's the hero, so he's better by default"

Edited March 14, 2013 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[MamboCat]

Isn't that's why he's the "best" - he knows other characters outpower him but he wins anyway?!

[Kuzu]

Isn't that's why he's the "best" - he knows other characters outpower him but he wins anyway?!

 

That doesn't tell me anything other than that you can essentially have the powers of a god but that won't matter because Sonic is just gonna beat you all the same regardless of any abilities he may or may not have because he's the hero and he must win.

 

 

At the very least, they could show some of these characters one up Sonic a few times so I can actually believe he can win.

[Diogenes]

I honestly wouldn't mind if Sonic won just because "he's the hero". Cheesy as it is, I actually kind of like that; the strength of the hero's will and the fact that he's fighting for the right things end up making up for a physical disadvantage. But if that's what they're going for they're not selling it; Sonic rarely has to struggle (you aren't pulling through on nothing but willpower if nearly every fight is a near uncontested beatdown in your favor) and he doesn't project a strong enough will. He just kind of floats through everything...and that's just not interesting.