Sonic's Greatest Rival

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

No it doesn't.

Robotnik will always be an enemy in my eyes, and no amount of tarnishing via Sonic X will change that.

That and he makes some pretty sexy robots, mechs, bases, weapons, and flying aircraft carriers to make up for that.

Now if only he could win...

[Kuzu]

That and he makes some pretty sexy robots, mechs, bases, weapons, and flying aircraft carriers to make up for that.

Now if only he could win...

But the status quo won't let it him, its sad really

No it doesn't.

Robotnik will always be an enemy in my eyes, and no amount of tarnishing via Sonic X will change that.

Enemy and Rival are synonymous dude.

[Diogenes]

Only if you strip away all nuance from the words. Which would be stupid.

[Dr. Crusher]

Enemy and Rival are synonymous dude.

No. A rival is a character, from a minion to a nobody from a slum, that wants to be "better" than the other character in every way, shape and form possible. The desire to kill them is optional, but what matters is that they want to be like them, but better.

An enemy on the other hand is exactly that - someone who straight up wants to kill them. The amount of battles between two characters doesn't mean they become more "rival-like" each day. There may be times in which an enemy character and a rival character overlap, but I refuse to believe that Robotnik is one of those cases.

Jet wants to be better than Sonic. Johnny also wants to be better than Sonic, although he probably intended to kill him as well due to following Whisker/Robotnik/Nega's orders. Robotnik only wants Sonic to be dead.

[Kuzu]

No. A rival is a character, from a minion to a nobody from a slum, that wants to be "better" than the other character in every way, shape and form possible. The desire to kill them is optional, but what matters is that they want to be like them, but better.

An enemy on the other hand is exactly that - someone who straight up wants to kill them. The amount of battles between two characters doesn't mean they become more "rival-like" each day. There may be times in which an enemy character and a rival character overlap, but I refuse to believe that Robotnik is one of those cases.

Jet wants to be better than Sonic. Johnny also wants to be better than Sonic, although he probably intended to kill him as well due to following Whisker/Robotnik/Nega's orders. Robotnik only wants Sonic to be dead.

But if they hate each other, want to kill each other, and want to be better doesn't that make them enemies/Rivals. And Robotnik does want Sonic dead, but he also enjoys his bouts with Sonic(Otherwise he would've killed him a long time ago, think how the Joker treats Batman).

And a rival doesn't have to be someone who wants to be better, they can come in the form of adversaries who have great respect for the protagonist but are on opposing sides.

Eggman is just as much a rival as say Metal(Wanting to Kill the hog), but Eggman poses the biggest threat,and is actually evil, instead of just a jackass(Like Shadow or Jet) hence what makes him more of an enemy.

I was just saying Enemy/Rival can mean the same thing. Sonic & Jet were enemies in the first Riders, and Sonic & Metal are enemies now.

[hebitaka]

I prefer a rival who is willing to love, to hate, to fight for a cause instead of purely for the sake of leisure. A rival who the main character's arrogance of always having to prove oneself as the best to a guy who embraces the absolute confidence of knowing he will always be as ultimate as he ever needs to be, regardless of the claims of potential equality.

Sonic should be the underdog, not the alpha dog. Why do you guys want a rival who's always going to be in the main leads shadow. Which ironically what Shadow is supposed to represent but is still competant and equal to the main character.

[DarkLight]

I prefer a rival who is willing to love, to hate, to fight for a cause instead of purely for the sake of leisure. A rival who the main character's arrogance of always having to prove oneself as the best to a guy who embraces the absolute confidence of knowing he will always be as ultimate as he ever needs to be, regardless of the claims of potential equality.

Sonic should be the underdog, not the alpha dog. Why do you guys want a rival who's always going to be in the main leads shadow. Which ironically what Shadow is supposed to represent but is still competant and equal to the main character.

We got that in 06', look how that turned out.....

[Kuzu]

We got that in 06', look how that turned out.....

not to mention people would complain that "Shadow is stealing the spotlight again, bitch whine moan"

[Dr. Crusher]

not to mention people would complain that "Shadow is stealing the spotlight again, bitch whine moan"

That's not whining. He did.

It wasn't all his fault though. Silver took part as well.

Look, all I'm saying is that, after a game all about Shadow's already revealed past, him taking down the two "true" villains alongside the latest newbie hedgehog whilst Sonic runs around aimlessly and repeatedly saving a useless princess from the clutches of the "false" villain - it's going to get a negative reaction. There's plenty of successful ways to develop other characters whilst keeping the focus on the main character. Sonic 2006 was not one of them.

As I've said before, Sonic doesn't have to be the strongest guy in his universe, but that doesn't mean he has to be a damn redshirt. There's probably dozens of others in Mario's world who are far "better" than him, but ultimately it's still the plumber whose saving everyone's asses.

[DarkLight]

That's not whining. He did.

It wasn't all his fault though. Silver took part as well.

Look, all I'm saying is that, after a game all about Shadow's already revealed past, him taking down the two "true" villains alongside the latest newbie hedgehog whilst Sonic runs around aimlessly and repeatedly saving a useless princess from the clutches of the "false" villain - it's going to get a negative reaction. There's plenty of successful ways to develop other characters whilst keeping the focus on the main character. Sonic 2006 was not one of them.

As I've said before, Sonic doesn't have to be the strongest guy in his universe, but that doesn't mean he has to be a damn redshirt. There's probably dozens of others in Mario's world who are far "better" than him, but ultimately it's still the plumber whose saving everyone's asses.

Thank You.

[Kuzu]

That's not whining. He did.

It wasn't all his fault though. Silver took part as well.

Look, all I'm saying is that, after a game all about Shadow's already revealed past, him taking down the two "true" villains alongside the latest newbie hedgehog whilst Sonic runs around aimlessly and repeatedly saving a useless princess from the clutches of the "false" villain - it's going to get a negative reaction. There's plenty of successful ways to develop other characters whilst keeping the focus on the main character. Sonic 2006 was not one of them.

As I've said before, Sonic doesn't have to be the strongest guy in his universe, but that doesn't mean he has to be a damn redshirt. There's probably dozens of others in Mario's world who are far "better" than him, but ultimately it's still the plumber whose saving everyone's asses.

[Dr. Crusher]

I never said Shadow didn't steal the spotlight, I was just saying people don't know when to let it go, I understand it should never happen again, but I shouldn't have to be constantly reminded about it too.

[DarkLight]

Seeing as how Sonic 2006 happens to fill the "15th Anniversary" role, this might double the "impact" of the previously caused damage compared to a more traditional "very crap game".

Besides, it's not just you. As a Robotnik fan, it pains me when I have to see a Mephiles fangirl squee about him stealing the Sonic kill for the nth time. Because now, despite it being in the past, Mephiles had still done what Robotnik failed to do. That will now always be there as a reminder. It doesn't matter how old it is, it still happened.

Plus, there's also the Rival series, in which Shadow and Silver know everything including Nega's involvement whereas Sonic and Knuckles only know that "Robotnik must be stopped".

[Kuzu]

Seeing as how Sonic 2006 happens to fill the "15th Anniversary" role, this might double the "impact" of the previously caused damage compared to a more traditional "very crap game".

Besides, it's not just you. As a Robotnik fan, it pains me when I have to see a Mephiles fangirl squee about him stealing the Sonic kill for the nth time. Because now, despite it being in the past, Mephiles had still done what Robotnik failed to do. That will now always be there as a reminder. It doesn't matter how old it is, it still happened.

Plus, there's also the Rival series, in which Shadow and Silver know everything including Nega's involvement whereas Sonic and Knuckles only know that "Robotnik must be stopped".

[Vertekins]

I never said Shadow didn't steal the spotlight, I was just saying people don't know when to let it go, I understand it should never happen again, but I shouldn't have to be constantly reminded about it too.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Verte

[Kuzu]

I don't think people will let it go as long as Shadow keeps usurping Sonic for the most influential role in the game. Last time I checked, this franchise was called Sonic the Hedgehog not Shadow the Hedgehog.

[Vertekins]

It happened only once, because not many people know about the Rival games.

[Kuzu]

No, it happened twice. Just because many people are not familiar with Rivals does not mean that Shadow was any less involved in actually hogging the spotlight by getting the most influential and encompassing role in the game I.e knowing the exact nature and threat of Eggman Nega.

[Dr. Crusher]

I don't think people will let it go as long as Shadow keeps usurping Sonic for the most influential role in the game. Last time I checked, this franchise was called Sonic the Hedgehog not Shadow the Hedgehog.

I don't think Eggman was too 'harmed' by Mephiles succeeding in murdering Sonic. At least Eggman doesn't attempt it like a coward. No, the man attempts it at least much more honorably than Mephiles ever did. For one, he doesn't cheap shot his enemies like Mephy did with Shadow after Phase 1 of Shadow's first boss fight with him I.e Slyly unleashing an attack that slammed Shadow against a rock spire and winded him as well as stabbing Sonic from behind.

The man has his mistakes alright but in SA2 and Colours, the only things that ever stopped him succeeding are deus ex machinas. That's not exactly incompetence on Eggman's part.

Tell that to the fanbase. As far as they're concerned, Robotnik fails for various reasons... including for being "ugly".

Apparently all villains these days have to have anime hair and smooth faces.

It must hurt doesn't it.

...Is that meant to be patronising?

Because it does.

[Kuzu]

Tell that to the fanbase. As far as they're concerned, Robotnik fails for various reasons... including for being "ugly".

Apparently all villains these days have to have anime hair and smooth faces.

...Is that meant to be patronising?

Because it does.

You make it seem like the fanbase treats Eggman like crap? I really don't see it at all.

No, I was just asking.

[Aquaslash]

I don't think Eggman was too 'harmed' by Mephiles succeeding in murdering Sonic. At least Eggman doesn't attempt it like a coward. No, the man attempts it at least much more honorably than Mephiles ever did. For one, he doesn't cheap shot his enemies like Mephy did with Shadow after Phase 1 of Shadow's first boss fight with him I.e Slyly unleashing an attack that slammed Shadow against a rock spire and winded him as well as stabbing Sonic from behind.

You can blather about honor all you want, but in the end, that's why Mephiles was temporarily successful and Eggman always fails. At the end of the day, Mephiles got slag done.

Also nobody can keep up with Sonic like Metal Sonic can. Shadow is leagues behind them both and will probably stay that way.

[RootingForTheEmpire]

It must hurt doesn't it.

Yes. Yes, it does.

Tell that to the fanbase. As far as they're concerned, Robotnik fails for various reasons... including for being "ugly".

Apparently all villains these days have to have anime hair and smooth faces.

...Is that meant to be patronising?

Because it does.

I can understand people disliking Eggman based on his repetitive in-battle quotes(GET A LOAD OF THIS/ YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY, THE MORE THE MERRIER), personality or general villainy(or some combination of the three), but basing your opinion on his looks alone is just silly. Besides, he's sexy anyway

All these 'pretty'/'sexy' villains need to die out. It's bad enough physically idealising all of the heroes, but the villains as well? Hmph. No.

[hebitaka]

You can blather about honor all you want, but in the end, that's why Mephiles was temporarily successful and Eggman always fails. At the end of the day, Mephiles got slag done.

Also nobody can keep up with Sonic like Metal Sonic can. Shadow is leagues behind them both and will probably stay that way.

You have no proof of that. I can say Shadow can outfight Metal Sonic then, since he's got better feats and powerups. Shadow is said to be Sonic's rival peer in speed as well.

[Kuzu]

You have no proof of that. I can say Shadow can outfight Metal Sonic then, since he's got better feats and powerups. Shadow is said to be Sonic's rival peer in speed as well.

But Metal has been shown to be faster than Sonic, multiple times; Now if Shadow truly rivals Sonic's speed, then he's no faster than Metal.

Before this erupts into a war about who's faster, we have knowing who's better, because this isn't a shonen series(No matter how much it looks like one).

[RootingForTheEmpire]

You can blather about honor all you want, but in the end, that's why Mephiles was temporarily successful and Eggman always fails. At the end of the day, Mephiles got slag done.

Also nobody can keep up with Sonic like Metal Sonic can. Shadow is leagues behind them both and will probably stay that way.

At the end of the day, Robotnik is alive and free and Mephiles is not. I think the fact that he never gets caught or killed, no matter what he does should count for something. Yes, Mephiles was successful for all of five minutes, but he didn't make an improbable escape when things inevitably started to go pear-shaped, and will never have another chance of improving his plans and trying again. Also, SEGA forbids Eggman from winning on any level(no matter what heroic BS they have to pull out their ass), etc.