Which criticisms towards the series do you disagree with?

[Darth Sonikku]

It also annoys me when people say Colors ripped off Galaxy. I don't doubt that they took some inspiration from Galaxy with the setting (in fact I think it's less likely that they didn't) but that's not the same thing as a ripoff. A ripoff is plagiarism.

^Thank you.

[CanofEpicSauce]

BAWWWWWWW!!!1111 SAWNICK HAZ GREEN EYEZ!!!!

BAWWWWWWW!!!1111 NIN10DOH SHOOD MAYK ALL OF TEH SAWNICK GAYMZ!!!!

BAWWWWWWW!!!1111 SAWNICK SUX NAOW AND SHOOD DAI TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLZ!!!!

BAWWWWWWW!!!1111 SAWNICK SHOOD ONLY BE IN TOO-DEE!!!!

BAWWWWWWW!!!1111 SAWNICK (And I'm not shitting here) SHOOD HAVE SPLOSHUN MAN GAYMPLAY!!!!

BAWWWWWWW!!!1111 SAWNICK SHOODENT TAWK

All of these kind of comments make me want to gouge my fucking eyes out.

Edited February 4, 2011 by CanofEpicSauce

[Rusty Spy]

Not so much in the way of criticism, but the way in which budding critics feel necessary to state that issues should be fixed by removing everything relevant to it. While the criticism isn't usually unwarranted, this "addition by subtraction" bullshit is so pretentious and ass-backwards you'd think we were still living in the goddamned medieval ages. Where the storyline fails, they suggest not to hire better writers or simply to improve the story itself, but to remove all semblance of narrative whatsoever, reducing the games down to a shell containing only levels and enemies. Where the dialogue fails, they suggest not to hire better voice actors or to improve the script, but to render everything in the games completely mute, or at best, subtitled Banjo-Kazooie esque nonsense (right, because listening to random unchanging herpaderp noises is so much better than anything Jason can pump out ). Where the cast fails, they suggest not to improve their characterization or to balance their gameplay traits, but to remove every single one of them bar the essential two.

Does this fall under any definition of "fixing" a franchise? Well, look at it this way. Does a doctor cure illness by removing vital organs? Does a builder fix a wall by knocking down large parts of it? Does a forum poster fix their posts by deleting them? In some rare and extreme cases, yes. But most of the time, the situation isn't quite so extreme that a doctor can't prescribe some kind of drug, or a builder can't throw in some spare bricks and plaster, or a forum poster can't click the blatantly obvious "edit" button and retype only the parts that got messed up, and in that same light, there's absolutely no reason you can't fix a franchise by tweaking what's already there or adding on top of it, rather than tearing huge chunks out of it and claiming it's more than what it was before.

Basically this since it pretty much sums up nearly every major criticism that everyone likes to throw around, and everyone has this very mindset, yet absolutely NO ONE ever have any decency to suggest doing the actual definition of 'fixing', and taking what's wrong with the series and making it BETTER rather than completely removing it in it's entirety, and would rather lock Sonic in suspended animation out of a crippling fear of change.

SAWNICK (And I'm not shitting here) SHOOD HAVE SPLOSHUN MAN GAYMPLAY!!!!

Wait, who ever said THAT?

Edited January 28, 2011 by Black Spy

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why should it be a lie? It's their opinion, a justified and understandable one.

Because around the time SA1 came out, people were all over it and loved it.

Then several years later when the series begins it's dark age, people start saying that it was the game where all the problems started. Like hell I'm gonna believe that.

And for the record, I couldn't care less if it's their opinion. That's not going to protect them from any criticism over it.

Again it's not really wrong to say that, 2d and 3d Sonic are very different from each other, so it's not guaranteed everyone will like 3d Sonic games when they like a 2d one.

Except it goes as far as saying that going 3D caused the problems. That's much different that not liking 3D Sonic, and is completely ignorant to boot on the problems themselves.

Sonic may have had a lot of rough moments in going 3D depending on the game, but it's not the inclusion of the Z-axis that's causing the problem.

Knuckles and Tails are the most unique characters in appearance and abilities, after Sonic.

So are:

-Shadow

-Silver

-Amy

-Blaze

-Big

-etc.

They also are the least blunt variations from an already existing character as a base model. It's not just nostalgic reasoning to why they should be the only characters, they add the most to the gameplay as well.

Actually, yes the hell it is just nostalgic reasoning. Every other character can add more to the existing gameplay as well as sticking to the base model, some easier than others. And you know what's even more ridiculous? Every character during and after Sonic Heroes began to SUCK because the developers were doing a poor job at handling them. That means Tails and Knuckles were shitty too, ESPECIALLY in Sonic 06 where they were among the worst characters in the game. And yet despite that fact being right in front of those people's faces, they still defend them as if they're still good characters, and the only reason for doing so? They were around when the series was good, so they'll let them slide.

Anyone with the most basic sense of logic would know that shit doesn't work that way. If my car that was working for 10 years suddenly breaks down while I'm on the road because something happened to it, I'm not going to think "well it was good in past, so I'll let this slide"; likewise, if I get a brand new car that breaks down because of a few easily replaced parts, but can still work if fixed, I'm not going to think "Well it sucks now" and try to throw it away. The first thing that would come to me would be "My car's messed up! I should find a way to FIX it!"

But people don't care about any potential the other characters can bring, and would rather kill them off. Shadow's got a gun? Kill him off. Silver has Telekinesis? OMFG, it sucks, get rid of him. But Knuckles' climbing ability is sticky and glitched to the wall? Oh god it sux, but he was good in the past. The fuck?

You can argue as much as you want on the issues with the characters, but let me warn you that this is not a debate you will ever win.

Speed and fast running is Sonic's unique and distinct feature that differentiates it and does different from other Videogames, and that's why people buy them for.

Learn to take a joke, buddy. I thought made that more than obvious with the emoticon.

Many other games that do story do it better, so why should people want a story from a Sonic game since it doesn't revolve around the concept what makes the Series unique,especially since Stories in a Sonic games never goot credit outside of the Fandom.

First off, I never said they "should" want a story.

Secondly, games that aren't RPGs don't revolve around the concept that makes other series unique either, even when actually do the story better. So if that's the case, any game such as, but not limited - Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank, Halo, Legend of Zelda, F.E.A.R., Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, and ESPECIALLY Assassin's Creed should not have a story. And it doesn't do too many favors when the story is pretty much the only selling point in games such as Mass Effect, despite how much I love the game.

And third, just because the series hasn't done stories very good doesn't mean they should take it out as many of the folks believe they should. You don't add by subtracting. I mean really, did the thought of them actually making the stories better come to any of their heads before concluding that we should take it out? Because no matter how bad the plots are, there's not much of a reason (if at all) for the only solution to be to get rid of it.

You sound like you are referring people outside of the fanbase or aren't really into the modern games. It's understandable if they sort of casually shout out these comments, it's not because they aren't aware of the actual problems. You can't really expect people who don't have any bias to Sonic to accept things that are mediocore to the general standards of the mainstream, like the Stories and several petty characters.

I don't, and that's not what I'm expecting them to have mediocre standards.

The problem comes when they play favorites even if they were good in the past but shitty now, or if they don't acknowledge that there is another way to fix these problems other than taking them out.

To reiterate what BlackLightning said previously (and it was in my sig before you began arguing with me to begin with):

Where the storyline fails, they suggest not to hire better writers or simply to improve the story itself, but to remove all semblance of narrative whatsoever, reducing the games down to a shell containing only levels and enemies. Where the dialogue fails, they suggest not to hire better voice actors or to improve the script, but to render everything in the games completely mute, or at best, subtitled Banjo-Kazooie esque nonsense (right, because listening to random unchanging herpaderp noises is so much better than anything Jason can pump out). Where the cast fails, they suggest not to improve their characterization or to balance their gameplay traits, but to remove every single one of them bar the essential two.

For some reason, when something does poorly, the only answer that comes to people's heads is to take it out as opposed to fixing it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I completely forgot about the people who say that Sonic doesn't need a voice because his VA was annoying in the past.

Edited January 28, 2011 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Ebby]

"All Sonic games sucked after SA2!!" Lies.... straight up.

"Sonic can't do 3D!!" Again.... lies

"BRING BACK DRUMMOND!!!" While I dislike Sonic's current voice, I can deal with it. It's really not a big deal.

Yeah, that's all I got now.

[SEGAMew]

Criticisms I disagree with:

- BAAAW SONIC HAS GREEN EYES MY LIFE IS OVER

- Classic Sonic doesn't have gold buckles on his shoes

- Tails is a girl

- I'm not going to _______ because of the presence of Sally/SatAM/Archie/nonSEGASonic elements

- Sonic's downfall began with Sonic Heroes

- Sonic's downfall began with Shadow the Hedgehog

- Sonic's downfall began with Sonic '06

- Why isn't there more lolSonAmy???

- SonAmy is canon

- Cut the number of characters present in Sonic games

- Big the Cat is the worst character ever

- Sonic shouldn't talk ever again

- 2D games are superior over 3D games

- Archie Sonic Comics sucks

- Fleetway Sonic Comics are superior

- Sonic X sucks

- Chris Thorndyke sucks

- Shadow the Hedgehog sucks

- Character XXX sucks

- SatAM sucks

- Cartoon XXXX sucks

- Sonic's voice is better when voiced by XXXX

- Classic Sonic looks better than Modern Sonic

- Modern Sonic looks better than Classic Sonic

- Any other baseless criticism relating to Sonic

There's probably more, but I couldn't be bothered to recall them all 8D

[ilcane87]

Mostly the ones that insist that Sonic can't survive unless we turn everything back to the way it was in 1994. Whining about his design, insisting we kill off the extended cast except for Tails and Knuckles, complaining that the games have stories, etc etc. We're all aware of how the series has fucked up in the last decade, but most of this is just cowardly head-in-the-sand bullshit.

This sums up my opinion perfectly.

I could say that the symbol of dumb criticism that completely misses the point is the Sonic Cycle... funny thing is Sega developers have openly acknowledged it and have been basing their decisions on just that, lately.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I could say that the symbol of dumb criticism that completely misses the point is the Sonic Cycle... funny thing is Sega developers have openly acknowledged it and have been basing their decisions on just that, lately.

They have? I always knew they knew of the cycle's existence, but I didn't know they did that.

I hope they're smart enough to know there are other types of fans and audiences other than those who so much as know about the Cycle, to base decisions around other factors as well.

[ilcane87]

They have? I always knew they knew of the cycle's existence, but I didn't know they did that.

I hope they're smart enough to know there are other types of fans and audiences other than those who so much as know about the Cycle, to base decisions around other factors as well.

I think the most recurring PR punchline for Sonic Colors and Sonic 4 has been: "We're definitely not going through the Sonic Cycle".

I obviously hope they won't neglect other types of fans much longer, and have games in store for them, but the choices Sega has been making lately are clearly adressing that sort of criticism in the most drastic way, such as removal of side characters, basic storyline... you know, the usual.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I obviously hope they won't neglect other types of fans much longer, and have games in store for them, but the choices Sega has been making lately are clearly adressing that sort of criticism in the most drastic way, such as removal of side characters, basic storyline... you know, the usual.

I doubt it. Apparently they were listening to the Classic fans and gave them a Sonic 4, despite how that turned out to the target audience, so chances are they're listening to this very topic as well.

And they haven't removed the side characters, they're merely not using them. I know that because they kept Knuckles out of the games for the same length of time as Shadow, and he's one of the characters Classic fans will defend almost regardless of any problems he has. As for storyline, all I know is that they're not going for the serious route they tried and failed in ShTH and 06. That could mean that the tone in SA2 is the upper glass ceiling they'll want to stay under.

Either way it goes, they need to take the areas they've fallen short on in the past and actually do a good job with them.

[Skyward Sword]

• OMG SONIC SAWKS CUZ HE GOTZ GREEN EYEZ
  
• SONIC STEALZ IDEAZ FROMZ MARIO HE SHOULD DIE
  
• The babylon rouges/chaotix need to go
  
• The game gear games suck.
  
• Sonic colorus sux!
  
• AUUUUUUUUGH THE MUSIC IS MAKING MY EARS BLEED MUST CLICK THE DAMN DISLIKEE BUTTON!!
  

I completely disagre with all of the above. Honestly I think some Mario fanboys deliberately join sonic forums to troll. SRSLY. :/

[Darth Sonikku]

A lot of people have talked about the removal of characters in recent Sonic games in a few of these posts. But I want to give my two cents on the issue as well.

There is a difference between completely killingremoving characters from the franchise and just putting characters on the back burner until a new game comes out (Shadow and Knuckles haven't appeared in a main game since Sonic 06) (unless i'm wrong?)

People also tend to hate characters because...

A. They starred in a bad game (Shadow in ShtH and Silver in Sonic 06)

B. They have a bad personality/gameplay because of bad writing, unoriginality, etc.

or C. Because they aren't characters from the good ol' genesis days (Now that just pisses me off )

It's bad enough that people bash the characters, but people also complain amount the insane amount of characters. Usually, characters in the Sonic series are made for major games and events. i.e. SA1, Sonic Rush, 10th and 15th anniversary, etc.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Sonic Team churned out Sonic characters just to appease fans and overshadow the so-called "sucky" characters.

Sonic Team needs to develop the characters that need development or else these characters will still be bashed by critics and players alike.

[DarkLight]

This one might not be a criticism either but suggesting that Archie characters must be added to the games. Like I said back in the Archie topic, most people aren't aware of the possibility of SEGA altering the personalities and designs and just assume the games will be better if their favorite Archie character(s) are a part of the cast (even though SEGA owns the rights to them.) Not to mention these kinds of people prefer to see more characters, developed or not, rather than having SEGA the opportunity to develop the characters they have already like Silver, ( Although that one might be a strech since there's not much to do with Silver other than the "I came from the future to save the world" and spin-off games) Rouge, hell, possibly Big could get some revelance than adding more characters could.

[LimeTH]

Kind of a minor nitpick, but I hate it when people lump Amy together with the "shitty" modern characters as if she debuted in Sonic Adventure.

People, Amy predates Knuckles by a year. Do your research.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Kind of a minor nitpick, but I hate it when people lump Amy together with the "shitty" modern characters as if she debuted in Sonic Adventure.

People, Amy predates Knuckles by a year. Do your research.

For a minor issue, it sure sounds like something to make a big fuss about...

Of course, she didn't have any gameplay during the Classics, she was nothing more than a Damsel In Distress, and her modern look is far more well known. Still, she predated Knuckles! Not exactly anything too major overall tho.

[batson]

Kind of a minor nitpick, but I hate it when people lump Amy together with the "shitty" modern characters as if she debuted in Sonic Adventure.

People, Amy predates Knuckles by a year. Do your research.

Im pretty sure just most fans are aware of that though. It's more just people in general that keeps believing that Amy belongs squarely in the 3D era. But to be fair, this is a perfectly understandable mistake to make since Amy only appeared in relatively obscure games during the 2D era, and she was more or less completely absent from merchandise prior to Sonic Adventure. So i think we fans should try to be somewhat forgiving to those making that mistake.

[Kuzu]

Im pretty sure just most fans are aware of that though. It's more just people in general that keeps believing that Amy belongs squarely in the 3D era. But to be fair, this is a perfectly understandable mistake to make since Amy only appeared in relatively obscure games during the 2D era, and she was more or less completely absent from merchandise prior to Sonic Adventure. So i think we fans should try to be somewhat forgiving to those making that mistake.

Actually Amy was in a few spin offs after her initial appearance:

Both Drift games, Fighters, and one other game that escapes me.

Anyway as for the topic:

Hating every character except Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, despite the fact they have been just as if not more shitty than most the cast nowadays.

Constantly reminding us of 06 is reviews, I know it was a bad game, but I don't need to be reminded every time I look at a new review.

Superficial complaints, like voice acting(Which shouldn't matter, because its the gameplay that really does), and being completely biased.

And saying Sonic should just die.

[sonfan1984]

When people say that Sonic games don't need a story, voice acting or cutscenes.

When fans and critics say that Sega should kill off every single character except for Sonic and Dr Eggman.

When people say that Sonic only works in 2D and every single 3D game is bad.

When people say that Sonic hasn't had a good game since S3&K or SA2.

When reviewers sometimes makes up or overexaggerated problems in a Sonic game.

When fans says that Roger Craig Smith voice is too deep for Sonic.

When people say that Sonic should die.

Edited January 28, 2011 by sonfan1984

[batson]

Actually Amy was in a few spin offs after her initial appearance:

Both Drift games, Fighters, and one other game that escapes me.

I know, but none of those games were exactly top sellers. My point was that even if it's annoying to hear people speak about Amy as a "modern" character, it's at least an understandable mistake since she simply wasn't that well known before Sonic Adventure.

I remember that when i was a kid in the mid 90's and got a hold of a demo of Sonic CD and saw Amy, i told my friends about this "pink girl hedgehog" that was in the game and none of them had heard about her before. This being despite the fact that most of these kids were just as crazy about Sonic as i was. Sega simply didn't care to market her back in those days, which i suspect was due to them not wanting to confuse kids as to whether her or Sally was Sonic's love interest.

Edited January 28, 2011 by batson

[Chooch]

I don't think Shadow the Hedgehog was a terrible game. I think Heroes was because it was a fantastic concept that devolved into one-dimensional button mashing nonsense with terrible level design and characters that wouldn't shut the fuck up.

Shadow the Hedgehog had a terrible concept, sure, but at least it was executed halfway decently despite it. The same can be said for the Werehog.

[LimeTH]

Im pretty sure just most fans are aware of that though. It's more just people in general that keeps believing that Amy belongs squarely in the 3D era. But to be fair, this is a perfectly understandable mistake to make since Amy only appeared in relatively obscure games during the 2D era, and she was more or less completely absent from merchandise prior to Sonic Adventure. So i think we fans should try to be somewhat forgiving to those making that mistake.

Well, yeah. Hate is a strong word. It just bugs me when it happens.

I think her obscurity outside of Japan is probably because Sally kept getting pushed as the be all end all female Sonic character in those days.

Edited January 28, 2011 by LimeTH

[123654]

- SonAmy is canon

How's that a criticism?

[Vec]

-Talking about reviewers, when something in another platformer is considered a challenge and something identical/similar in a Sonic game is considered cheap

-The voice actors...I can't belive that some people reached to the point of sending him threatening letters to Roger

I sent him a mail to cheer him up and he kindly thanked me

[Rusty Spy]

-The voice actors...I can't belive that some people reached to the point of sending him threatening letters to Roger

The way fans react to other voice actors who aren't Ryan Drummond or Jaleel White is the same way Saxton Hale reacts to competition.

[sonfan1984]

-The voice actors...I can't belive that some people reached to the point of sending him threatening letters to Roger

I sent him a mail to cheer him up and he kindly thanked me

They have done the same to Jason Griffith throughtout his whole acting career as Sonic. :\ I dunno if they have done it to Ryan Dummond, but I know that alot of fans perfer Jaleel White as Sonic at the time.