Should Sonic and Amy be together?

[Sega DogTagz]

I question the automatic assumption that any kind of romantic hinting is absolutely certain to evolve into a Romantic Plot Tumor. If you ask me, Sonic game stories have come along a bit since the early 2000's and i'm now less inclined to believe that any Sonic X Amy action would be subtle and not become a plot tumor.

Just kicking the tires here, but what exactly has the series shown you that makes you confident enough to say that. From my perspective, for every well done or practical recent interpretation of Amy, there have been 2 bad ones.

People just want to see it validated in any official media. Sonic and Sally in the future storyline is candy for the shippers like the SonAmy option was in Chronicles. I wouldn't object to more of those, like optional date cutscenes.

Oh, eye-candy.

That's cool then.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[Vertekins]

Just kicking the tires here, but what exactly has the series shown you that makes you confident enough to say that. From my perspective, for every well done or practical recent interpretation of Amy, there have been 2 bad ones.

Unleashed. Amy has failed to recognise Sonic in Werehog form. Sonic momentarily becomes incredibly depressed. Nothing Chip does even makes the slightest difference to Sonic's state of mind. All this in a single cutscene with no wangst from Sonic afterward or no proclaimations of guilt by Amy. All you see after this cutscene is a few lines of dialogue from Chip as he tries to cheer up Sonic by saying it's no big deal and that a visit to Pickle should cheer him up more. There's no exploitary cutscene featuring Sonic wangsting about not being recognised by the girl he harbours feelings for (According to Word of God)

Next cutscene. Werehog Sonic saves Amy and other villagers from Deep Nightmares. Before Amy can even acknowledge Sonic's presence, he's gone like the wind, Chip following. Amy finally starts wising up that there's more to the big furry guy than meets the eye, wondering if it could be Sonic, Pickle confirming her suspicions. She pulls the old guy away demanding an explanation. There's no exploritory cutscene concerning what Pickle says to Amy, no potential for Amy to possible display guilt over her failure to recognise Sonic or expressions of shame for how Sonic acted.

Even talking to Amy outside Spagonia University makes her say things along the lines of "I can't believe that.....thing is really you! But no matter the package, you're still my Sonic Sonic!" She isn't in the least sorrowful about her failure to recognise Sonic or ashamed about it.

There was nothing sappy or tumourous about the whole "Sonic being disappointed/upset possibly over Amy love-derived Sonic-sense failing", it was a gloriously subtle and yet possibly gloriously revealing depiction of Sonic's upset at his form and his pseudo-girlfriend's failure to recognise him.

Hence it isn't a Romantic Plot Tumour.

[Sega DogTagz]

Hence it isn't a Romantic Plot Tumour.

Yeah, I can agree to that. I was just curious as to why you were confident that future endeavor would follow that line of development. There's just so much more president surrounding the couple citing that Amy is more likely to act as she did in say..... Heroes, than she did in Unleashed.

[Diogenes]

But isn't it likely that the dynamic would change if they started taking it seriously rather than making Amy's crush a joke? Arguably that's why their relationship worked in Unleashed as opposed to Heroes; Heroes' paper-thin plot meant it could be nothing more than a gag and an excuse for a boss fight, whereas Unleashed, being a little more developed, made an honest attempt and showed that there's some potential in it.

[Vertekins]

Even the date mentioned fleetingly in the SatBK manual and at the very end of the credits of that game was not in any way shape or form influential on the game. Like I said with the Unleashed example, it was subtle and not annoying. Rather revealing and amusing actually.

The "romance" between Sonic and Amy is ALWAYS played for laughs and is certainly doesn't annoyingly bog down the story down. People who even call out the series for that are denying an aspect of the series that has been set in concrete for the past 18 years. From the writing i've seen lately, I am not inclined to believe that any Sonic X Amy romantic shenanigans would bog the story should they be introduced. I think Sonic Team treat Sonic with too much dignity after the '06 travesty to turn him into a love-addled Anakin Skywalker-esque parody of his former self should he get more deeply romatically involved with Amy.

[Kuzu]

Btw. The Word of God you're referring too is a disney magazine so I don't think it counts.

As for SonicxAmy all of the things you listed up there would more fall under Ship Teasing, its subtle and not overly dramatic like you said. Its mostly played for laughs, but in a more semi-serious situation it can be shown that the idea of a relationship is possible.

[Sega DogTagz]

But isn't it likely that the dynamic would change if they started taking it seriously rather than making Amy's crush a joke? Arguably that's why their relationship worked in Unleashed as opposed to Heroes; Heroes' paper-thin plot meant it could be nothing more than a gag and an excuse for a boss fight, whereas Unleashed, being a little more developed, made an honest attempt and showed that there's some potential in it.

True. However I certainly am in no position to guess the outcome of a shift in dynamic. Regardless of how well she was portrayed in Unleashed, she almost immediately reverted back to the full on lovestruck Amy in Free Riders. For all the good Unleashed did in making such a subplot plausible, Free Riders made it look like a joke by turning Amy back into her psycho-counterpart with a part time job threatening Vector.

Amy's character has been flushed out well enough for this to work in the past (SA2 comes to mind) but in all honesty such developments are always dwarfed in sequential releases much as Unleashed was for Free Riders.

Any enduring qualities introduced in games like Unleashed get trumped by larger waves of un-enduring qualities.

Even the date mentioned fleetingly in the SatBK manual and at the very end of the credits of that game was not in any way shape or form influential on the game. Like I said with the Unleashed example, it was subtle and not annoying. Rather revealing and amusing actually.

The "romance" between Sonic and Amy is ALWAYS played for laughs and is certainly doesn't annoyingly bog down the story down. People who even call out the series for that are denying an aspect of the series that has been set in concrete for the past 18 years. From the writing i've seen lately, I am not inclined to believe that any Sonic X Amy romantic shenanigans would bog the story should they be introduced. I think Sonic Team treat Sonic with too much dignity after the '06 travesty to turn him into a love-addled Anakin Skywalker-esque parody of his former self should he get more deeply romatically involved with Amy.

The problem is within that description right there. Sonic and Amy are played for laughs. In Riders, Amy whacks him with a hammer because it is supposed to be funny. We don’t need to go any deeper than that. But when you actually choose to go deeper than that, like having a potential relationship start up, that’s when things start to get sticky. The foundation for such storytelling just isn’t there. I find it hard to imagine that you could avoid a plot tumor for the simple reason that it would take significant screentime away from action just to explain the shift between “run away from Amy” to “lets be more than friends”. In the vast majority of instances where significant screentime is devoted to their relationship standing, bad things have happened. Psycho-Amy has happened.

Whereas Unleashed is a good example of what could go down if done right, it pales in comparison to the trend Heroes, Battle, Free Riders, Colors DS and a handful of other games have already established. Amy actually being sensible toward Sonic is more or an anomaly than anything. Raving fangirl is the rule in her case.

[Octarine]

Whereas Unleashed is a good example of what could go down if done right, it pales in comparison to the trend Heroes, Battle, Free Riders, Colors DS and a handful of other games have already established. Amy actually being sensible toward Sonic is more or an anomaly than anything. Raving fangirl is the rule in her case.

I don't really see why that should be a huge factor. I mean, most of the recent games have set a precedent for Tails and Sonic barely ever interacting with each other, but I didn't see too many people complaining when they actually started behaving like friends in Colours. Amy's character shouldn't have to be held back just because she's been written badly before; the series just doesn't have enough continuity between games for inter-game consistency to be an issue, especially when we're talking about spinoffs like Battle and Free Riders.

[Sega DogTagz]

I don't really see why that should be a huge factor. I mean, most of the recent games have set a precedent for Tails and Sonic barely ever interacting with each other, but I didn't see too many people complaining when they actually started behaving like friends in Colours. Amy's character shouldn't have to be held back just because she's been written badly before; the series just doesn't have enough continuity between games for inter-game consistency to be an issue, especially when we're talking about spinoffs like Battle and Free Riders.

These are really two different things though. Sonic and Tails, despite limited interaction, were always known to be brotherly. When Colors came around, no added explanation was needed for their buddy-buddy behavior. It was always made clear that Sonic and Tails had a strong bond, even if we didn’t necessarily see it. It wasn’t like Sonic and Tails weren’t friends before, so it was no shock that they were so close now.

In this case, we would have to look at a transition. A movement between one stage of friendship into a possible relationship. You can not make such a transition without explanation. In this case I do believe that Amy’s past character handicaps her a bit. Her interactions with Sonic have always been written for fun or cheap yuks, so when the time comes to move on, it just doesn’t feel right.

Amy and Sonic seem to be meant to be cute and/or funny. Anything else is like cramming a square peg into a circular hole. Its not gonna quite line up.

EDIT: I also don't necessarily think that spinoff's should be ignored, continuity errors and all. While their events may not effect the main cannon much, the characters are still largely supposed to be in character - so long as its still made by the same set of dev's. Black Knight is a great example of that. Spinoff or not, what we can take away from the games characterization is very important.

Heh, I am putting way too much thought into this. I gotta stop letting my curiosity rope me into these things

Edited January 10, 2011 by Sega DogTagz

[123654]

The only thing stopping it from working, like others have said, is that Sega seems to have a problem with lasting character development. Amy vowed to become independent and make Sonic respect her in Sonic Adventure, and then in Heroes she basically tries to kill him for not marrying her. I think Sonic and Amy could potentially develop a realistic relationship, but Sega is going to need better writers before that can happen.

Personally I'd love it if they did. Just because this is a lighthearted series of video games doesn't mean the characters shouldn't be developed. If anything, developing them further would improve things. People tend to dislike the cast because most of them are bland, or have suffered massive derailment. The answer is to fix the writing. So Amy is portrayed as a comical psycho stalker in most games. So what? Stop doing that and work from there. Tone down the fangirlism and make her relationship with Sonic more believable.

Edited January 10, 2011 by AXB

[Yoyo]

The only thing stopping it from working, like others have said, is that Sega seems to have a problem with lasting character development. Amy vowed to become independent and make Sonic respect her in Sonic Adventure, and then in Heroes she basically tries to kill him for not marrying her. I think Sonic and Amy could potentially develop a realistic relationship, but Sega is going to need better writers before that can happen.

I look at it a bit differently myself. I think their relationship (characterization too) really depends on the game. For example, Sonic Adventure was more plot-oriented than Heroes was. In Heroes the plot was largely an excuse for the gameplay, so to make the most out of the few scenes there were, Amy's entire plot (and arguably character) revolved around finding Sonic (although, part of the reason behind that was because he supposedly took Froggy, and the two Chao, but I digress). Now in a game like Sonic Adventure the characters are given prominence, and the plot is given a lot more focus.

Given that, I don't think you can compare the two so easily. Sonic Heroes, and a lot of the spin-offs don't focus on story-telling as much as some of the main entries such as the Adventure games or '06. Now, regardless of how the story-telling was executed in certain games, I think you need to look at what the story was trying to do. In the Adventure games and '06, the plot took itself much more seriously. While in Heroes for example, it was very minimal, and largely a joke (I don't mean that in a bad way though).

Now, I'm not saying that the spin-off games or Heroes aren't canon, but I'm saying that if the game is less serious, and more goofy, you might need to take a grain of salt with the character portrayals. That being said, I don't think lighthearted games are bad, or less important than more serious entries. Just the games where the story largely isn't important (Heroes).

Ultimately I think the spin-offs and less story focused entries are important, if for their characterization, but should be looked at a bit less seriously than entries where the main focus is the story and the characters. (Note: I put the spin-offs in with Heroes and such because while they are important, they arguably don't have as great an impact on the series as the main games do.)

Edited January 10, 2011 by Yoyo

[SEGAMew]

I think Amy should chase Sonic forever, and Sonic should run away from Amy forever.

It's working so far. Most of us seems content with that.

And I hate how crazy Sonamy types bring up the Disney mag as "proof".

[The Weeb with No Name]

I had a weird idea where Amy becomes so obsessed with Sonic that she actually tries to become him.

Nightmare fuel if ever I thought some.

[123654]

Normally I'd agree with you on that point, Yoyo. But then, Sonic Colors arguably had even less plot than Heroes and yet it still managed to have good characterization. I just think that if any games in the series are going to be plot-oriented, they should try to at least keep the characterization consistent.

I think Amy should chase Sonic forever, and Sonic should run away from Amy forever.

It's working so far. Most of us seems content with that.

And I hate how crazy Sonamy types bring up the Disney mag as "proof".

It's character development, and it's generally seen as a good thing. Keeping the characters the same forever gets boring fast.

And "crazy"? The games themselves imply that Sonic does like Amy. If anything he's scared away because he thinks she comes on too strong, or he's just not ready for a relationship.

Edited January 10, 2011 by AXB

[The Weeb with No Name]

This is going to get bloody.

[123654]

Yeah that's how Amy was in Free Riders. Wanted to slap the bitch, myself.

[Kuzu]

Yeah that's how Amy was in Free Riders. Wanted to slap the bitch, myself.

Literally every fucking word in her sentences had "Sonic" in it. It was terrible, it seems spinoffs bring out her more.....forceful personality, its been happening way too much.

[batson]

Yeah that's how Amy was in Free Riders. Wanted to slap the bitch, myself.

Indeed. And it was weird how Vector is apparently supposed to be this bombastic guy with a short fuse, and yet he pretty much allowed Amy to treat him like crap the whole game. I think that Amy's basic character, "the clingy, jealous, short-fused girl who screams at everyone who doesn't behave exactly the way she wants them to and threatens them with violence, and magically makes characters a thousand times stronger than her fear her" is an example of a very Japanese thing that doesn't translate that well to other areas where people aren't that familiar with the archetype. It's like, in Japan, when Amy behaves that way the audience takes the behavior for granted because Amy is just "that type of character", while in the west the audience goes "Man, what an annoying bitch, who doesn't anyone stand up to her?".

Hmm... But you know, as anyone who has watched Dragonball Z will know, characters like Amy doesn't have to be completely immune to getting whats coming to them. I am thinking of course about the time when DBZ's resident "that type of girl" tried to bitchslap the deadliest villain in the series and he casually transformed her to an egg and stepped on her without batting an eye. I would love to see Eggman do something along those lines to Amy when she is in bitch-mode.

[Kuzu]

Indeed. And it was weird how Vector is apparently supposed to be this bombastic guy with a short fuse, and yet he pretty much allowed Amy to treat him like crap the whole game. I think that Amy's basic character, "the clingy, jealous, short-fused girl who screams at everyone who doesn't behave exactly the way she wants them to and threatens them with violence, and magically makes characters a thousand times stronger than her fear her" is an example of a very Japanese thing that doesn't translate that well to other areas where people aren't that familiar with the archetype. It's like, in Japan, when Amy behaves that way the audience takes the behavior for granted because Amy is just "that type of character", while in the west the audience goes "Man, what an annoying bitch, who doesn't anyone stand up to her?".

Hmm... But you know, as anyone who has watched Dragonball Z will know, characters like Amy doesn't have to be completely immune to getting whats coming to them. I am thinking of course about the time when DBZ's resident "that type of girl" tried to bitchslap the deadliest villain in the series and he casually transformed her to an egg and stepped on her without batting an eye. I would love to see Eggman do something along those lines to Amy when she is in bitch-mode.

That's a Tsundere you're thinking of, and while it was Always Amy's character, they're taking it WAY too far, its one of the reason people hate her now.

[Marcello]

That's not a Tsundere. A Tsundere is a girl who is a "bitch" and is closed off, but in truth she's a softy.

[Kuzu]

That's not a Tsundere. A Tsundere is a girl who is a "bitch" and is closed off, but in truth she's a softy.

That also works in reverse, she's a softy on the outside but a bitch when peeved. That kinda described her pre-bitchiness. Think Asuka from NGE.

[Marcello]

That would be somewhat more of a Yandere.

[Mangoaxe5]

No Amy should not be with Sonic. The problem with Amy is that she has no real personality outside of her crush on Sonic. Everything that she does she does to get Sonic to notice her. Her crush on Sonic holds her back as a character.

[Shade Vortex]

I pretty much agree with a few people here. If Sega could do it well, I'd be all for it. But since I know they probably can't do it well, the only way I'd accept it is if it was done as a sort of "closing act" if the series were ever to end, for any reason (such as changing mascot, Sega going down, etc).

I mean, I would support SonAmy because it's sort of like GokuChichi (no matter how many people disagree with that comparison), but yeah, this series isn't about romance, so romance should never take center stage, and if it were to happen, they'd have to do it well. The track record shows they can't. Prime example: Elise and Sonic.

[DarkLight]

No Amy should not be with Sonic. The problem with Amy is that she has no real personality outside of her crush on Sonic. Everything that she does she does to get Sonic to notice her. Her crush on Sonic holds her back as a character.