Has Sonic fallen too far away from his orginal concept?

[speedduelist]

In fact he didn't say "I hope Sonic Colors isn't well received"; he said "I hope if Sonic Colors isn't well received [...]". He's just making an hypothesis. But the way his sentence was structured is a bit strange; I had to read it twice to get it right.

I meant to say 'i really hope that if sonic colors isn't well received, that they go back'...etc

Regardless, as you mentioned : i never that i wanted sonic colors to be not received well, even if some one manged to correct the grammar errors of that sentence.

[Gamenerd]

In fact he didn't say "I hope Sonic Colors isn't well received"; he said "I hope if Sonic Colors isn't well received [...]". He's just making an hypothesis. But the way his sentence was structured is a bit strange; I had to read it twice to get it right.

Well that's a mistake on both sides then; "I hope if Sonic Colours isn't well recieved" isn't really a viable sentence on it's own. XD

[azoo]

Again, it over complicates the moveset, and is pointless because you still have two moves that do the same thing. And this is even worse, because it only makes Sonic's movement all jerky from the way you describe it; punishing players for wanting to go faster by design, where as previous Sonic games (mainly the genesis titles) do that simply by the way the levels are structured, in a way that feels less like the game is actively trying to punish you, and more the players own fault for being careless.

Not necessarily. Going incredibly fast in S1-3K can break the game and cause Sonic to blast through entire stages with little to no effort. The "Sonic Megamix"-style homing attack proves that this is the case. Also, I put it in ways that would make movement more varied. Boosting makes you fast at anytime anywhere no matter if mobile or not, yet it heightens the danger level behind going too fast without invulnerability. Rolling offers you this invulnerability to smash through objects and enemies, but it requires downhill movement and acceleration to work at it's fullest potential. Spin dashing offers you [both] the speed boost and the invulnerability, but you have to come to a dead stop to use it, and you even have to rev it up by tapping. Chaining rolls with boosts could end up creating seamlessly blistering speeds, but it would have to be used wisely and have minor repercussions for trying to boostspam (same goes for boosting without roll chaining), so you don't just blast through everything and break the level design.

The concept of putting the boost on a button has become a staple to the franchise lately that makes the gameplay in ITSELF redundant. Sonic was always about building your momentum, and if the player reacts to surfaces wisely while strategically platforming, they are rewarded with intense amounts of speed. The boost makes all of this UBER-redundant, since it gives you the ability to reach the fastest speed Sonic can go with the press of the X button. The only way to make it where these two can remain around each other is if Sega was to nerf the boost (like mine), or change the way it functions completely.

Plus, I already DID give a way for them to coexist (albeit not in detail), Sonic Advance 2's boost.

To elaborate, it's like an extension to your speed, in that running at max speed for a few seconds will make him go into this 'boost mode' type state in which his speed and acceleration are greatly increased, allowing him to go at speeds far greater than the spindash, but if you slow down (I believe it was below Sonic's initial top speed) you will lose the boost and have to regain it again. It can't hurt enemies, and takes some running to activate, and some difficulty to maintain in obstacle ridden paths that attempt to slow you down.

The main thing that differentiates itself from the spindash is that for one it's not a specific function the player can perform through a button press, and the spindash still retains its usefulness in getting a quick burst of speed on short stretches and steep hills, while the boost is more suited for (and almost impossible to achieve without) long stretches of land designed for speed.

And unlike the other suggestions, Adv 2's boost still works off of physics and momentum, meaning that running uphill prevents you from being able to get the boost, while downhill slopes help activate the boost much quicker. Also, the increase in speed isn't instantaneous or automatic, Sonic still slows down and speeds up in the appropriate situation as he normally would. All of which help keep that flow to Sonic's movement that the other ideas seemed to lack.

Like I've said before, I love this concept and I'll willingly drop my concept in favor for this one; but it's different from the boost because it isn't activated with a button. This isn't a problem until we notice that with just jumping and rolling, Sonic's moveset seems a little empty without boosting being there to fill up one of the face buttons on the controller. What ability could possibly be added to make it feel a little more satisfying for a moveset?

..Maybe a simple "attack" setup? Sonic Advance managed this rather well, considering that it didn't intrude gameplay and was mostly there for if someone wanted to play the game slightly different. Maybe have the move be like the somersault slide from Sadv, where it starts as just a somersault if you tap the button and if you continuously tap it Sonic starts to go into a semi-cartwheel, then a slide. When mobile, to make as a quick and controllable attack, maybe Sonic can do that mobile sweepkick like he does in Nextgen (that's right, I just brought that game up) that doesn't interrupt Sonic's movement but makes as a good attack to hit enemies as they come up towards you. Just as a move for a quick attack when you don't wanna curl into a roll just yet. Also, since boosting would be gone, I'd say they put the jump dash / homing attack on the attack button as well (like in SU360) and leave the mini-double-jump to the A button. To make it even better, the homing attack range should be made short at a standstill / slow speeds and the faster you go you can reach out your attack to farther away enemies; and the contact with the enemy wouldn't rebound you backwards like it does in Sonic 4, instead sort of allowing Sonic to bounce across enemies like the balloons in Unleashed / Colors.

After all that is done, then the only issue left would be managing the Spin Dash, which could either be done like the one in SA1/2 (except requiring a standstill), or tap-revving by doing crouch + jump. Since it is rather uncomfortable to hold, say, the X button with the top of your thumb and tap the A button with the bottom of your thumb while aiming with the left stick; then either the Spin Dash would have to be like the SA1/2 one (which would make it too instant), crouching/rolling would have to be set up on a trigger (which would make the face button setup feel empty again), or it could be on a trigger AND on a face button (which may make the player feel like the game is overloading you with the roll).

[speedduelist]

I suggest to every one that they would give sonic colors a chance.

right now iizuka said they were inspired by the original classic games and the adventure series to balance speed and platforming and he said some stages will have more 3d and some will have more 2d,

now we will see what they had to do now. right now sonic colors does deliver speed,platforming and even explorations, but will they miss up? will the 3d segment be all on rails or will be unbalanced with the 2d parts? or they are both going on rails.

this is my doubts. We will see about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLvlPz54y1s

and also Sonic CD Had a Boost, Except it was Free,

to be honest people like the spindash because its just a classic animation.

Edited October 31, 2010 by speedduelist

[Gamenerd]

As far as this whole boosting fiasco goes, I'm not sure of the technicalities behind it, but personally, I'd just combine the two into one move that takes up a single face button - A to Jump and B to Spinboost. I mean, Sonic Adventure's spindash essentially performed the best functions of the boost - it brought Sonic to top speed, was easily spammable and could be used mid-run without much disruption of flow at all - but also had Sonic's trademark rolling and the classic feel of spindashing intact. Some would criticise the SA spindash for being easily spammable and exploitable, but that was a fault in the game design and programming rather than the functionality of the move; it was no more powerful than the boost, it just wasn't implemented as well as it could have been.

So that's my idea. Combine them into one button that provides the best of both worlds. Sonic was never about putting a function onto every button the controller has, so in my opinion, if two moves have similar uses they might as well be one function.

My ideal controller setup for Sonic would be one button to jump, homing attack, air dash or walljump (but allow the walljump to be used wherever, like in Mario), one button would be used to boost/spindash or stomp if in midair, and one trigger/shoulder button would be used to drift in 3D and have some other purpose in 2D. And potentially, another button, or controller gesture (if we're talking PS Move or the Wiimote) that activates powerups or Super Sonic should he return. From there, work on tightening up his controls so he's smooth and fun to play as in all environments, and then build amazing stages around Sonic that make other platformers look humdrum by comparison.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Gamenerd

[Rusty Spy]

What ability could possibly be added to make it feel a little more satisfying for a moveset?

I am glad you asked my dear friend; parkour moves. We've seen several different ways to enhance speed in Sonic games, but never ways to enhance platforming, and I am of the firm belief that parkour encompasses EVERYTHING that made the classics so fun. Platforming, flow, and the whole concept itself of nimbly leaping and climbing over obstacles to move through an area as fast as possible pretty much perfectly describes what the Genesis games were all about.

Somersaulting, wall-jumping, wall-running, climbing over ledges, rolling under tight spaces, etc etc, all these abilities greatly add more emphasis on platforming and expand it; enhance it.

Now in terms of how all that would fit on a controller?................ well most of those moves could be automatic functions that are a part of the normal actions, so.... the parkour idea isn't really meant to add more buttons, but it still makes for a more satisfying moveset.

to be honest people like the spindash because its just a classic animation.

Wrong sir, wrong!

Under section 37-B on the forum posted by members, it states quite clearly, people like the spindash because it adds many exhilarating moves for Sonic to perform because it's an extension of the rolling mechanic. So if you understand why people like rolling/momentum physics, than you understand why people like the spindash because it's pretty much an extension of that.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Black Spy

[speedduelist]

So that's my idea. Combine them into one button that provides the best of both worlds. Sonic was never about putting a function onto every button the controller has, so in my opinion, if two moves have similar uses they might as well be one function.

Like, like this?

Hmm, that could actually work.

I am glad you asked my dear friend; parkour moves. We've seen several different ways to enhance speed in Sonic games, but never ways to enhance platforming, and I am of the firm belief that parkour encompasses EVERYTHING that made the classics so fun. Platforming, flow, and the whole concept itself of nimbly leaping and climbing over obstacles to move through an area as fast as possible pretty much perfectly describes what the Genesis games were all about.

sonic could wall run in Sonic colors (see planet wisp act 1).

I am pretty sure if you are talking about classic Running in walls, i don't think it can work in a 3d environment (with that it eliminates the Effect/purpose of spin dash in 3d other than classic vibe).

Edited November 1, 2010 by speedduelist

[azoo]

I am glad you asked my dear friend; parkour moves. We've seen several different ways to enhance speed in Sonic games, but never ways to enhance platforming, and I am of the firm belief that parkour encompasses EVERYTHING that made the classics so fun. Platforming, flow, and the whole concept itself of nimbly leaping and climbing over obstacles to move through an area as fast as possible pretty much perfectly describes what the Genesis games were all about.

Somersaulting, wall-jumping, wall-running, climbing over ledges, rolling under tight spaces, etc etc, all these abilities greatly add more emphasis on platforming and expand it; enhance it.

So, from what I'm getting from all this: the Genesis games with parkour like Fancy Pants Adventure / Mirror's Edge 2D, and the speed boost mechanic from Sadv2?

Good deal to me.