Has Sonic fallen too far away from his orginal concept?

[Emmett L. Brown]

I won't get all the way into this topic, but I will say that when Sonic's running attack move became a sliding kick it annoyed the hell out of me. Hello? Hedgehog? Rolling? Ball? That thing real-life hedgehogs do? You do remember the reason they picked a hedgehog for the chracter in the first place, right? Sonic the Bunny could have a sliding kick, that's fine, but Sonic the freakin' hedgehog rolls!

Rant over.

[speedduelist]

Sure, because people want a new 3D game with Spindash they should just go and play the old 2D games.

[Marcello]

Sonic CD has Spindash

[Diogenes]

Spin dash couldn't work properly in SA1 And SA2. mainly for one reason, it could be easily abused and could cause glitches.

Not "couldn't"; "didn't". There's a world of difference. There's nothing about the spindash in either game that can't be fixed.

[Chaos Walker]

SA1 and 2 tip a hat to you.

It's not even a challenge. It's just like running, except you can't stop, and you keep going faster downhill. The only challenge is having control so that you don't careen off the level.

I think when we think of rolling in 3D, we just think of hills. Sure, pinball only works in a 2D perspective, but what about ramps? If wall meets the floor at a curve rather than an angle, you could potentially spin up the wall and see what's on top/ on the other side. How about pipes? Oh looky, goodies on top. Just spin up to side to reach the ceiling. How about the loop de loops? What if you actually had build up speed to conquer those things? How about Marble tracks? There's still alot potential for rolling in 3D, it just takes some creativity to find it.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Chaos Walker

[Tara]

wasn't saying that. but if no one could live with the Spin dash.

they could always take sonic cd and sonic 1 was an Example of good games without a spin dash because they have the boost mechanics (except its Free).

and not the spin dash.

Yet both Sonic CD and Sonic 1 both had Spin Dash (albeit, the latter did not have the same Spin Dash system that became popular from Sonic 2 onwards) which became subject to constant use.

[Chooch]

Sega should ditch the damn boost button.

The main reason why people insist on getting rid of the boost button is because they're too lazy to think of ways for both boost and Spin Dash to coexist.

They can, by the way.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Chooch

[Tobibrocki]

I have to say, when I played Unleashed the first time I was really missing the Spindash. I can see why it wasn´t very useful in that game for sure, but it´s one of his signature moves, so, I would really like for it to properly return. Colours may have it with the Spike Whisp, but, It´s not quite the same I gotta say, having to use an item to use a trademark/core move isn´t quite the best solution in my opinion, but at least they built it in somehow I definitely give them credit for that.

One thing I have to add though is, that I would want a working Spindash, not like the one in Sonic 4, you know, the one that slows you down by having a speed cap and defeats its purpose that way. So yeah, I´m really interested to see how the one in Colours (wii) works, hopefully its not as limited as Sonic 4´s. Time will tell.

[Rusty Spy]

Spin dash couldn't work properly in SA1 And SA2. mainly for one reason, it could be easily abused and could cause glitches.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Black Spy

[speedduelist]

Except it DID work, and quite well. When you rolled you went downhill much faster, when you rolled up hill you slowed down, it allowed you to reach even greater speeds than just by running. Pretty much a perfect transition of the spindash from 2D to 3D, albeit with dodgy controlling, though that is more a problem with the controls itself and not the spindash. Just because it could be abused in SA1 (read: ONLY SA1) doesn't mean it didn't work.

i don't like adventures engine (as much as colors engine) because even thought its smooth and features the spin dash that engine is faulty and glitchy and could be easily abused in speed runs and could get harder to control but when you get used to it its fun. but i prefer Sonic colors Level design and engine than any other. the whole game was faulty, Sonic Could Jump very High with all the Camera problems around you and he is getting harder to control.

Sonic Colors really improved on that, its a lot easier to control and it doesn't have faulty physics (Jumping So High) and camera problems from what i have seen.

when you see SA2 Game Play (Sonic stages) you feel like some thing isn't right, like the game isn't fixed enough to strict it from being abused with glitches or Physics and camera problems. it gets a while to get used to, Colors one seems not it lacks all the issues sa2 engine had. and i don't think spin dash could appear in 3d for that reason (sa2/sa1 shows). over all in my opinion of course and i stated why i think so.

Edited October 30, 2010 by speedduelist

[Saint Nathan]

Agree. Becoming a ball was the main gameplay function that set Sonic apart from other platformers. Something so unique to the character shouldn't be ignored, even if we've found a suitable replacement. You know he's a hedgehog. That's what hedgehogs do! I find it hard to separate it from the character.

So foxes fly and have two tails, cats control fire and fish a lot, bats are incredibly curvy, birds ride hoverboards, and rabbits can fly with their ears?

Honestly, nothing else in the Sonic series is really matched with something their species does in real life.

Also he's still got the Spin Jump, so it's still there.

[Diogenes]

Honestly, nothing else in the Sonic series is really matched with something their species does in real life.

[Chooch]

No, the main reason people don't want the boost is because it's a one trick pony, and anything it could do, the spindash could do and more, and without being broken.

And trying to make the boost and spindash coexist (at least the Rush style incarnation) would just be redundant, because of the aforementioned reasons. Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.

I don't even understand the logic behind you calling it a one trick pony so I'm just going to ignore it. It's a blatant fallacy. At least as far as Sonic Unleashed is concerned. It wasn't 'broken' either, but this is the shitty reasoning that most of the Spin Dash advocates use against boost now, isn't it? Boost isn't your trump card that never goes away and makes the entire game piss easy. If you don't know how to use it correctly, the game kicks your ass for it. It's the same for, oh I don't know, most if not all other abilities Sonic has under his belt.

And there you go, in your own little way, reinforcing my point. You're saying that boosting and Spin Dash coexisting would be redundant, but you haven't actually thought of any ways to make it not. You just immediately cast aside the idea as impossible without even trying. And that makes makes your more valid how?

A - Jump/Homing Attack

B - Crouch/Stomp/Spin Dash

X - Boost

Y - Light Speed Dash

LT/RT - Sonic Drift

LB/RB - Quick Step/Change Target

Now to explain:

Homing Attack is back onto the A button because if there's one thing that Sonic Unleashed taught me, it's that boost and homing attack should not be on the same button. It's a recipe for disaster in most cases.

Another thing you'll notice is that I have Spin Dash mapped onto the same button as crouch. That's because instead of doing an incredibly pointless breakdance kick when you tap the button in quick succession, you'll go into a Spin Dash. The Spin Dash has use because [in this hypothetical Unleashed-style title], you aren't invincible when you boost and can't just tear through everyone by running into them. You spin into them while boosting by pressing the crouch button once you build up enough speed. The more speed you have, the stronger the attack, etc.

Now, this may be hard to explain, but the boost button isn't exactly just a boost button. I think I can speak for a lot of people when I say that typically when Sonic reaches close to max speed he becomes a bit of a nuisance to control. I also think there's an issue with Sonic having too much momentum when he's simply walking. This is my idea help remedy that.

The boost button isn't just for increasing speed right then and there but it also regulates how fast Sonic will go. Sonic doesn't need to go really really fast all the time so when you're boosting and come to a part when you might need to slow down (or even screech to a halt) it becomes a problem in the current Sonic games. Take this example:

Say when you first start the level up you're running at a decent speed. Not max speed but pretty fast. If you want to let it all out and go crazy fast you tap the boost button. Need to slow down? Tap the boost button again. Basically, it puts on/releases a cap on how fast you can go. If you suddenly want to screech to a halt while boosting then you hold down the boost button and Sonic will try and slow down as quickly as he can. It's more of a 'Speed Regulation' button than anything, but Boost just sounds simpler.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Chooch

[Chaos Walker]

bats are incredibly curvy

Rouge does... other stuff.

The Spin Dash has use because [in this hypothetical Unleashed-style title], you aren't invincible when you boost and can't just tear through everyone by running into them

So... not really the boost anymore, is it? Just a glorified peel out. The original peelout was just a fail version of the spindash that you really didn't need.

The boost button isn't just for increasing speed right then and there but it also regulates how fast Sonic will go. Sonic doesn't need to go really really fast all the time so when you're boosting and come to a part when you might need to slow down (or even screech to a halt) it becomes a problem in the current Sonic games. Take this example:

Say when you first start the level up you're running at a decent speed. Not max speed but pretty fast. If you want to let it all out and go crazy fast you tap the boost button. Need to slow down? Tap the boost button again. Basically, it puts on/releases a cap on how fast you can go. If you suddenly want to screech to a halt while boosting then you hold down the boost button and Sonic will try and slow down as quickly as he can. It's more of a 'Speed Regulation' button than anything, but Boost just sounds simpler.

Or you could use the homing attack while boosting. Why would you ever spindash again? Really, having too many abilities just complicates Sonic's moveset. In that propsed control scheme, Sonic has: an attack, a speed-up/ attack, a speed-up, and a plethora of advanced manouvers. When my sisters played Sonic Adventure, they figured out in no time at all. Sonic Unleashed utterly defeated them. I tried explaining how to use all the extra moves, but it was just too overwhelming for them. Remember when Sonic played with just the D-pad and one button?

Edited October 30, 2010 by Chaos Walker

[Chooch]

My post was designed to explain a way to make Spin Dash and boost coexist with a reason to use both and not be 'redundant' using Sonic Unleashed as a base. And really how is it 'not a boost?' It increases your max speed. It's a fucking boost. If you think it's a glorified Peel Out then you probably need to re-read it.

Also, it isn't a control scheme meant to be simple, less complicated and easily accessible to younger audiences (or your sisters). I can make you one of those if you want, but that entire point is honestly irrelevant to the goal of that write up.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Chooch

[azoo]

Sonic needs rolling. It's one of the most iconic things he does (right behind running), and was quite possibly the most important aspect to gaining speed in the original titles (and titles similar to them; bar Sonic 4).

I think boosting and rolling could coexist with each other; it's just that they need to have that balance. Here's my idea (thinking with a Colors setup; with B as boost and Z as crouching):

Boosting would function sort of like a beefed-up super peel-out. The pros from boosting are basically that Sonic can blast off at top speed, doesn't need a speed gauge, and can boost on the fly (because, like SA's spindash, it can be done while mobile); but the cons are that it requires charging, if held too long it's charging drags you to a halt, and it leaves you vulnerable to enemies. Also if used too much then Sonic's feet can overheat which also leads him skidding to a halt (or at least a walking / pre-running speed) and making him do a little feet-burning dance. It cannot be spammed and is a very risky move to use, but when used wisely at right times it gives a rewarding feeling of intense speed. Rolling would replace sliding, and would function just like the Genesis games. Sonic can use this form to bust through objects and enemies, go through crevices or tunnels, and when coming in contact with downhill terrain it dramatically speeds you up. ("Pinball"-based movement would remain only in 2.5D areas.) The only issue is that to use rolling to it's full potential you must first gain momentum to jump start it. Of course, there are ways around this, such as chaining boosts with rolling, or better yet crouching and tapping the boost button to Spindash; but Spindashing requires a full halt and roll-boost-chaining can only be done very lightly.

tl;dr - Nerf the boost to where it requires charging, can't be spammed and is more of a "risk-reward" deal; emphasize rolling's usefulness, but make it require gaining momentum to use to it's fullest potential. Leads to the conclusion that instaspeed can = danger, while gradual acceleration can = satisfaction.

[Chaos Walker]

I prefer your version of the boost. (Sorry Chooch, but your version had been warped to the point that it wasn't the boost, it was just a boost) The only thing that really bothers me is whether or not we really need it. Did the fans just love the boost SO MUCH that we decided we want it in every subsequent game? I feel adding the boost is a risk, as levels will probably be built to take adavnatage of it, and this leads to race tracks. Now here's a boost that worked:

What happened to this thing?

Really, the Sonic Colors version of the boost is best. They handled it like a powerup, where you need to save wisps to use it. If you use up the bar and there are no wisps near by, oh well for you, you should have thought about that. It makes the player value every burst of speed, use it wisely, and not spam it, or they could accidentaly run out. It's very comparable to the shields in Sonic 3, and there's no arguing that those worked out just fine. If the boost is anything more than a powerup, then the Spindash just becomes Sonic's other boost. (Physics or recklesness, Timmy?) And why use the spindash, when you could just roll while boosting? A decent player could abuse the boost like this without killing themselves.

[Rusty Spy]

i don't like adventures engine (as much as colors engine) because even thought its smooth and features the spin dash that engine is faulty and glitchy and could be easily abused in speed runs and could get harder to control but when you get used to it its fun. but i prefer Sonic colors Level design and engine than any other. the whole game was faulty, Sonic Could Jump very High with all the Camera problems around you and he is getting harder to control.

I know the engine was faulty, I was saying the spindash wasn't.

I don't even understand the logic behind you calling it a one trick pony so I'm just going to ignore it. It's a blatant fallacy. At least as far as Sonic Unleashed is concerned. It wasn't 'broken' either, but this is the shitty reasoning that most of the Spin Dash advocates use against boost now, isn't it? Boost isn't your trump card that never goes away and makes the entire game piss easy. If you don't know how to use it correctly, the game kicks your ass for it. It's the same for, oh I don't know, most if not all other abilities Sonic has under his belt.

Actually a bit of a miss wording. It's not so much a one trick pony, but more a 'Swiss-army knife' in that it pretty much jams different attributes such as the old speed-up and invincibility power-ups into a single move, as well as the way it pretty much demanded a complete change in the overall level structure for it to work, such as requiring loads of death traps and bottomless pits to balance out Sonic being able to completely tear through everything else in the level. It's not broken in that it makes the game too easy, but broken in that everything in the game needs to be designed to help offset the boost's sheer power, hence all the traps and pits, effectively turning the game into more of a glorified QTE than an actual platformer. Hell, you'd forget there were ENEMIES in the game if it weren't for the occasional homing attack chain. They were easy before, the boost makes them a complete LAUGHING STALK.

Or you could use the homing attack while boosting. Why would you ever spindash again? Really, having too many abilities just complicates Sonic's moveset

And to add to that, the 'speed regulation' thing is also incredibly unnecessary, and very pointless if all you want to accomplish is to make spindashing and boosting coexist, and as Walker already stated, complicates Sonic's moveset.

My post was designed to explain a way to make Spin Dash and boost coexist with a reason to use both and not be 'redundant' using Sonic Unleashed as a base.

Which fails right out of the gate because you have two completely different moves that do the same thing, only one can attack and the other can't.

Boosting would function sort of like a beefed-up super peel-out. The pros from boosting are basically that Sonic can blast off at top speed, doesn't need a speed gauge, and can boost on the fly (because, like SA's spindash, it can be done while mobile); but the cons are that it requires charging, if held too long it's charging drags you to a halt, and it leaves you vulnerable to enemies. Also if used too much then Sonic's feet can overheat which also leads him skidding to a halt (or at least a walking / pre-running speed) and making him do a little feet-burning dance. It cannot be spammed and is a very risky move to use, but when used wisely at right times it gives a rewarding feeling of intense speed.

Again, it over complicates the moveset, and is pointless because you still have two moves that do the same thing. And this is even worse, because it only makes Sonic's movement all jerky from the way you describe it; punishing players for wanting to go faster by design, where as previous Sonic games (mainly the genesis titles) do that simply by the way the levels are structured, in a way that feels less like the game is actively trying to punish you, and more the players own fault for being careless.

And there you go, in your own little way, reinforcing my point. You're saying that boosting and Spin Dash coexisting would be redundant, but you haven't actually thought of any ways to make it not. You just immediately cast aside the idea as impossible without even trying. And that makes makes your more valid how?

So far, I've still yet to see an application for the boost and spindash that isn't redundant. So my point still stands.

Plus, I already DID give a way for them to coexist (albeit not in detail), Sonic Advance 2's boost.

To elaborate, it's like an extension to your speed, in that running at max speed for a few seconds will make him go into this 'boost mode' type state in which his speed and acceleration are greatly increased, allowing him to go at speeds far greater than the spindash, but if you slow down (I believe it was below Sonic's initial top speed) you will lose the boost and have to regain it again. It can't hurt enemies, and takes some running to activate, and some difficulty to maintain in obstacle ridden paths that attempt to slow you down.

The main thing that differentiates itself from the spindash is that for one it's not a specific function the player can perform through a button press, and the spindash still retains its usefulness in getting a quick burst of speed on short stretches and steep hills, while the boost is more suited for (and almost impossible to achieve without) long stretches of land designed for speed.

And unlike the other suggestions, Adv 2's boost still works off of physics and momentum, meaning that running uphill prevents you from being able to get the boost, while downhill slopes help activate the boost much quicker. Also, the increase in speed isn't instantaneous or automatic, Sonic still slows down and speeds up in the appropriate situation as he normally would. All of which help keep that flow to Sonic's movement that the other ideas seemed to lack.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Black Spy

[Blacklightning]

Honestly? If you just removed the ability to break things with the Boost, 80% of its flaws would likely be fixed by default. The other 20 would just be tweaking boost gauges and speed so it's less spammable and doesn't directly overpower the spindash as a means of quick speed. Like say, to the extent that the boost gauge is something around the leauge of 1/4 size of a fully lvl'd up Unleashed one, and that speed given isn't quite what you'd get if you found a particularly steep hill to roll/spindash down.

I'm gonna throw a bit of a curveball here, using Sonic 4 as a case in point. Some of you might have noticed that running uphill normally actually gets you up more reliably than rolling or spindashing would, and while it goes without saying that I hear no fucking end of it, to me it actually makes a lot of sense. Now, a lot of people are probably already looking to crucify me for that little statement, so just lemme explain where I'm coming from here. Ignoring whether it really makes sense or not (though to me it seems like running up a wall would give a hell of a lot more traction than rolling would realistically, but that's besides the point), it actually creates a rather interesting balance between running and rolling in something of a risk v reward manner. Running may give a bigger speed advantage, but unlike the roll, you're actually vulnerable to damage while you're doing it, and completing levels faster generally means being in this vulnerable state as long as possible - conversely, the roll still keeps a decent amount of speed once you've already attained it or found a hill to roll down, but in exchange for some speed you're given protection to everything short of cheap spike and deathpit placements. It's movement for pussies, in a nutshell (yes, I just insulted your manlihood because you don't run around uncurled, what'chu gonna do about it?). In any case, argue the physics all you want, but what S4 did accomplish is to give players a legitimate reason to alternate between running and rolling, whereas the older games let you get away with substituting just about every medium of movement with rolling or spindashing and be much better off for it.

Now some of you are probably wondering "well BL, how the fuck is this relevant?", and I'll tell you - because that's exactly what rolling and boosting needs to do in order to establish a balance between them. Whereas rolling is all about the downhill, boosting should be all about the uphill. Whereas rolling is all about bowling through legions of enemies unfazed, boosting should be about putting your life on the line like a man and running full pelt for as long as you can without running facefirst into someone. Whereas rolling represents the hedgehog aspect of the character, boosting is more about being the fastest fucking thing alive, so ultimately they're both a part of the character in some form. Unless the two are more or less yin and yang as far as what they accomplish, one ultimately makes the other redundant (which is funny because that's exactly what the Rush games did when the Boost was first introduced), and if that's the case you might as well just go with one or the other.

As for the Homing Attack, well, Sonic 4 fucking nailed it. Yes, it's an incredibly game-cheapening move, but the fact remains that it kills all of your own momentum afterwards - again, if you know what you're doing, you can simply bounce off the fuckers instead or roll through them if they're grounded, and you'll actually save a lot of time if you manage to do so. As long as it's like that and there's another means of attack to counterbalance it (ie: faster but not as cheap), I have absolutely no complaints whatsoever.

[Chaos Walker]

Honestly? If you just removed the ability to break things with the Boost, 80% of its flaws would likely be fixed by default. The other 20 would just be tweaking boost gauges and speed so it's less spammable and doesn't directly overpower the spindash as a means of quick speed. Like say, to the extent that the boost gauge is something around the leauge of 1/4 size of a fully lvl'd up Unleashed one, and that speed given isn't quite what you'd get if you found a particularly steep hill to roll/spindash down.

Just watching the below video, I really feel that Colors did a great job of getting that 20%. Obviously it can't go 100, seeing as the game lacks the spindash, hence the need for a slightly neutered boost.

I swear, I can't stop watching this.

Okay, to readress the topic, I feel that Sega gave up trying to make 3D Sonic into the Classics, and made the ultimate compromise.

"Fuck it. Just put both in."

Let's not say Sonic has "fallen" from his original concept, but rather has found a new one. Both perspectives are unique styles that really let the player get a sense of satisfaction from using Sonic's abilities. Whether it's rolling or boosting, only Sonic can do it, and look good doing it to boot. Rolling really completes 2D gameplay, and a proper boost really completes 3D gameplay. It's immersion VS. exhiliration, and Colors lets you have both. Sure, there may be a place for both abilities in the other gameplay, but it's best to focus the level design to really let that aspect of Sonic shine.

So my conclusion: All that needs to be added to the formula is some rolling, and Sonic will be complete (yes, you guys have convinced me that there is certainly a place for boosting in Sonic now.)

Edited October 31, 2010 by Chaos Walker

[speedduelist]

I will have to say despite the fact that SA2 Engine is Faulty and could be abused.

Sonic Colors and Unleashed Engine is just too Fixed,

I Really hope if sonic colors isn't well received. I hope they go back and take a look at sonic adventure 2 sonic stages :

that SA2 Engine really has potential, throw Some Puzzles out their and more platforming and they are set.

and fix the physics and make the controls less slippery. that would make me happy

I Really hope Sonic colors Engine really goes against SA2's one.

or the anniversary game will be sonic's last chance for me at least (Sorry, Sonic 4 you were great but not for a sonic 3 sequel).

On a Summery Note : I hope sonic team knows what they are doing.

[Gamenerd]

I will have to say despite the fact that SA2 Engine is Faulty and could be abused.

Sonic Colors and Unleashed Engine is just too Fixed,

I Really hope if sonic colors isn't well received. I hope they go back and take a look at sonic adventure 2 sonic stages :

that SA2 Engine really has potential, throw Some Puzzles out their and more platforming and they are set.

and fix the physics and make the controls less slippery. that would make me happy

I Really hope Sonic colors Engine really goes against SA2's one.

or the anniversary game will be sonic's last chance for me at least (Sorry, Sonic 4 you were great but not for a sonic 3 sequel).

On a Summery Note : I hope sonic team knows what they are doing.

I think hoping that Sonic Colours will fail is a bit extreme to say the least. I can understand if the Sonic Colours style of play isn't quite to your taste (although I personally love the Unleashed playstyle and will likely feel the same for Colours too), but to shun Colours before it has even been released isn't really fair to the game, since it looks like being the most fun Sonic game since the Adventure's, if not moreso.

And even if you think SA/SA2's running stages are better than Colours' stages, then fair play to you, but if you're hoping the game isn't well recieved, then you better cross your fingers pretty damn hard, because so far this game is probably the best recieved Sonic game since the Genesis games, so SEGA are definately going to be taking cues from Colours in future games. Maybe the next games level designs and layouts will be more reminiscient of Sonic Adventure 2 as you so wish, but the solidity of the Colours engine, the 2D/3D switching, and the consistent play style of Colours is going to be sticking around for many games to come. And with the reviews Sonic Colours is getting, I imagine they'll be bringing back more than just the core formula - I wouldn't put it past SEGA to make a direct sequel to the game ala Rush and Rush Adventure, if Colours carries on getting the amount of praise it's pulling at the moment.

[speedduelist]

I think hoping that Sonic Colours will fail is a bit extreme to say the least. I can understand if the Sonic Colours style of play isn't quite to your taste (although I personally love the Unleashed playstyle and will likely feel the same for Colours too), but to shun Colours before it has even been released isn't really fair to the game, since it looks like being the most fun Sonic game since the Adventure's, if not moreso.

And even if you think SA/SA2's running stages are better than Colours' stages, then fair play to you, but if you're hoping the game isn't well recieved, then you better cross your fingers pretty damn hard, because so far this game is probably the best recieved Sonic game since the Genesis games, so SEGA are definately going to be taking cues from Colours in future games. Maybe the next games level designs and layouts will be more reminiscient of Sonic Adventure 2 as you so wish, but the solidity of the Colours engine, the 2D/3D switching, and the consistent play style of Colours is going to be sticking around for many games to come. And with the reviews Sonic Colours is getting, I imagine they'll be bringing back more than just the core formula - I wouldn't put it past SEGA to make a direct sequel to the game ala Rush and Rush Adventure, if Colours carries on getting the amount of praise it's pulling at the moment.

where did i say 'i hope sonic colors fails'?... i said if it fails then they need to take a look at the adventure style of game play and Fix that (Not in the way Colors and unleashed did, Fixing Every thing that it becomes hard or either slippery to control).

[Gamenerd]

where did i say 'i hope sonic colors fails'?... i said if it fails then they need to take a look at the adventure style of game play and Fix that (Not in the way Colors and unleashed did, Fixing Every thing that it becomes hard or either slippery to control).

You didn't specifically say that you hoped it "failed", but you said that you hope that "Sonic Colours isn't well-recieved", which is by proxy wishing for it's failure/lack of critical success, if you think about it.

[Core]

You didn't specifically say that you hoped it "failed", but you said that you hope that "Sonic Colours isn't well-recieved", which is by proxy wishing for it's failure/lack of critical success, if you think about it.

In fact he didn't say "I hope Sonic Colors isn't well received"; he said "I hope if Sonic Colors isn't well received [...]". He's just making an hypothesis. But the way his sentence was structured is a bit strange; I had to read it twice to get it right.