Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Promethean0416]

Yes, until it was confirmed on ye olde message board that the old memories officially faded away over the newer ones.

[Phoenix]

I have just binged everything from 1 to 252 for the first time. I have so many thoughts, but there's something I have to get off my chest.

Ixia Naugus is over there pretending he's not evil, smiling like the most evil motherfucker that's ever been born, DROOLING EVILLY, and he still successfully out-politics the Acorn royal family and Sonic. He can't even touch the sacred sword because he's so evil, and the council's just debating tax rates or whatever next to all that. When he's so clearly, openly so evil. I love Naugus. I'm sad Ken Penders happened in the middle of what was shaping up to be my favourite storyline.

[Michael Takagawa]

You know, I don't get why people call Geoffrey a pedophile instead of an ephebophile during his brief romantic encounters with Sally, a then 15-year-old at the time. Don't they ever bother to try looking up a dictionary?

[NiTROACTiVE]

So as of a late September BumbleKast Q&A livestream of this year, the Freedom Fighters are apparently retired, as Ian Flynn responded to a question on a livestream starting around 1:12:28 about Sonic Boom and the Freedom Fighters.

This also bad news for SatAM and other non-game Sonic material. First the Archie Sonic reboot happens, Lost Hedgehog Tales falls into development hell, and now this...

I'm this close to leaving the Sonic community all together.

[Phoenix]

It's not particularly different from what we knew, I don't think. Sega doesn't want to use the old Archie stuff, but Ian does and keeps pushing for it. Maybe one day.

[Rabbitearsblog]

Yeah, SEGA's been kind of uppity when it comes to using non-game related content for years now.  I do hope that they eventually will add in the freedom fighters at some point.  But if they don't, it's not really the end of the world or anything.

[Cuz]

I think that there are other's beyond Ian that want to see them return is good news all in all. :D We knew they were retired. 

[GentlemanX]

Characters like Mighty, Fang, and even Big have been considered retired at one point or another, but all are now extremely relevant to the brand. What that required was a policy change behind the scenes. The characters created for the Western branches of Sega are considered retired at this time, but honestly that's not too different than when Archie was still ongoing. The difference is Sega was very hands off with what Archie was allowed to do and what retired concepts they were allowed to utilize and they're significantly more hands on with IDW and picky about what IDW is allowed to utilize and how they are allowed to utilize it.

As Cuz said, the fact that it's not just Ian against Sega should inspire a degree of hope. It's regrettable that he doesn't want to get to into it because it would cause essentially office drama, possibly indicating that there are not just some at Sega who are ambivalent toward the SatAM characters but instead outright antagonistic toward them, but I'll take that over "This is essentially a lost cause, but I'm trying anyway".

Like with the other formerly retired characters, what you'll need to see the Western/SatAM/AOSTH/Archie/Etc. characters back is likely a change in management and a shift in priorities. The fact that we've got a concentrated effort to get the games continuity in order and getting older game cast like Mighty and Fang marketable again shows signs that Sega's previous modus operandi is changing. But those characters are still locked to Classic Sonic material only and characters like the Classic Chaotix are still not allowed to be used because of internal barriers earmarking them as Modern Sonic only. We still have a long way to go.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I took almost 2 decades for Mighty and Ray to become playable, and they were said by Iizuka himself to not be able to see the light of day were it not for Mania.

So this "retirement" doesn't really phase me over the return of any of the Archie Characters. But it's great to see there's still loud voices out there voicing their return.

Still tho, anyone else find it absolutely silly for Sega to be antagonistic over characters that they own? Not that I can't believe it, but make it make sense--it's not like they can't redesign them with even better designs than the Post-SGW looks.

Edited November 14, 2023 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[GentlemanX]

58 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Still tho, anyone else find it absolutely silly for Sega to be antagonistic over characters that they own? Not that I can't believe it, but make it make sense--it's not like they can't redesign them with even better designs than the Post-SGW looks.

The difference between retired characters like Mighty and Fang and retired characters like Sally and Johnny Lightfoot is that the former were created by the Japanese branch while the latter were created by the Western branch. In general, the franchise has skewed more to the Japanese framework since 1998 with elements from the Western franchise like chili dogs or the Robotnik name being exceptions. This is an extension of that, where the "wrong people" as it were created characters like Sally and therefore they're not given the same weight internally regardless of their popularity. This is why Sally can be in spin-off comics for decades and is off limits while the obscure villains from the Japanese only Game Gear game Sky Patrol that until 2023 hadn't been re-released since the Gamecube era can show up in the Tails 30th Special. The former was created by Americans while the latter were created by the Japanese. While from an outsider perspective everything is clearly Sega!Sonic material, internally you probably have a division on what should and shouldn't be considered part of the franchise.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, GentlemanX said:

The difference between retired characters like Mighty and Fang and retired characters like Sally and Johnny Lightfoot is that the former were created by the Japanese branch while the latter were created by the Western branch. In general, the franchise has skewed more to the Japanese framework since 1998 with elements from the Western franchise like chili dogs or the Robotnik name being exceptions. This is an extension of that, where the "wrong people" as it were created characters like Sally and therefore they're not given the same weight internally regardless of their popularity. This is why Sally can be in spin-off comics for decades and is off limits while the obscure villains from the Japanese only Game Gear game Sky Patrol that until 2023 hadn't been re-released since the Gamecube era can show up in the Tails 30th Special. The former was created by Americans while the latter were created by the Japanese. While from an outsider perspective everything is clearly Sega!Sonic material, internally you probably have a division on what should and shouldn't be considered part of the franchise.

I'm starting to see more clearly why there's a massive schism in this franchise and the fandom, and even more of how Sega still doing a divisive job at unifying things.

I suppose that explains Stick's entry despite being made in America? Or am I missing something on that front?

Edited November 14, 2023 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[GentlemanX]

Sticks was designed by Yuji Uekawa of Sonic Team and that's why the Japanese side took a shine to her and added her to Sonic Channel. That's why she's considered different than the rest of the Boom cast who were designed by Big Red Button. She was made by the "right" people.

To be clear, Tangle and Whisper are also fine and were designed by Tyson Hesse and Evan Stanley respectively. The difference is that Sally, even after given Sega!Sonic redesigns by Ben Bates for the reboot was never approved of by Sega because that's not what Sega's relationship with Archie was. Sega approved Tangle, Whisper, and the rest of the IDW cast's designs and overall creation from the ground up. Sega of Japan likely played no part in the Western characters creations back in the 90s. You have to get the right people at Sega to care enough about the Western concepts so they can then reimagine them and approve them for use in the present version of the brand. You need to convince the same people that won't redesign Mighty and Fang for Modern Sonic and won't allow the existing designs for Classic Chaotix. Again, we still have a long way to go.

Edited November 14, 2023 by GentlemanX

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You keep saying "the right people," and while I know what you're saying, that just carries a lot of connotations that I'm starting to understand the reactions from those who take this to extremes when it comes to the antagonism.

Don't get me wrong, I get what your saying. Only makes me more curious how to drum up any interest.

Edited November 14, 2023 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Cuz]

Lowart's Archie series of videos finally reached Shadow 

 

Thoughts? I never realized how far the series got with Hope and Shadow's relationship. I like how she pushes past his insecurities. Otherwise the video a little on the short and sweet side. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

Yeah, that's a perfect summary of what Archie Shadow was and what Game Shadow SHOULD BE (and was for a game or two).

My only complaint about Archie (Preboot) Shadow was that he was a little TOO expressive. In my mind, Shadow is someone who hides his emotions behind a wall of "I must be Ultimate Life Form, no one can ever know I'm anything BUT perfect stoic badass", so his body language should be subtler. Like him smiling when no one is looking is great or his perfect angry face at Marine. But in more casual conversation he should keep that scowl, so when he does break down into tears it feels more impactful.

I also would prefer if he got a bit more victories under his belt, but while he had plenty of appearances, he was always a supporting actor. Only 2 stories were about him: Learning about his past and Sonic Universe 1-4 (the latter which was all about him brooding about his losses).

 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

You know, Spark of Life is great, but it's funny how Tails got basically no meaningful focus or characterization throughout it. Even Big got more. I guess that they wanted a major Sega character for that arc, and Tails being there theoretically makes sense. I still kinda liked him being there, but it's just a bit funny they didn't really do anything with him.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Tails seemed more of a “junior scientist” compared to Dr. Ellidy who was the main scientist. That probably explains why.

It’s like how Tails was a sort of junior researcher to Prof. Pickle who was the Main specialist for the subject in Unleashed—he didn’t do much in that game either besides fly you around continents.

Considering how much focus Tails gets in general, I don’t see the problem with him taking occasional backseats like this.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

49 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Tails seemed more of a “junior scientist” compared to Dr. Ellidy who was the main scientist. That probably explains why.

It’s like how Tails was a sort of junior researcher to Prof. Pickle who was the Main specialist for the subject in Unleashed—he didn’t do much in that game either besides fly you around continents.

Considering how much focus Tails gets in general, I don’t see the problem with him taking occasional backseats like this.

Yeah, I wouldn't say it's a problem exactly. More just a bit odd.

[SanPolo4389]

There’s also Lowart’s video next video about Archie Sonic is now focusing on Scourge the Hedgehog. Is that title a bit misleading or more an in universe that he’s the worst rival?

Edited March 26 by SanPolo4389

[Lorekitten]

Quote

I killed my dad and you're next

Pet headcanon: given that Scourge never explicitly stated that he killed his dad, only claiming his dad no longer exists (and Jules answered that with "Are you trying to shock me?"), I have a sneaking suspicion that if anything actually did happen to Scourge's dad (and I do not consider Scourge a reliable narrator), Scourge might not have had anything to do with it for all we know. He could well have just been trying to intimidate Jules into stepping out of the way, which backfired badly when Jules pointed out that he'd be digging his own grave by going after Sonic's family.

[Mangoaxe5]

I'm still very sad that we're never going to get reprints of Archie Sonic. I just wish past writers like Karl Bollers would just release their copyrights into the public domain. There's no reason for them not to.

Copyright really just fucks fans over when you stop and think about it. Copyright laws really need to be reformed.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, I wonder why they don't release the copyrights if they're not going to use them?

It's been years since. They can't be banking on these ideas coming back anytime soon.

[MetalSkulkBane]

17 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

Yeah, I wonder why they don't release the copyrights if they're not going to use them?

Too much work for zero gain.

Let's say Bollers wants to give up Finitevus. Time to look up how to do it. I THINK it's easy, but you wanna make sure.

But wait, is Bollers really the owner? Maybe it's Gray the artist. What if other writer ads something important to character, like when Nicole get her Lynx form. Time to track more people down and convince them to give up their right.

And then you must question whenever Archie themself don't have any claim. After all, Eclipse or Relic are gone, even if Flynn is now with IDW

And after all of that... there is still chance IDW won't use the characters. You know, just to be on the 100% safe. It's not like getting those characters back would be that much of a boost. And some of them are redundant now, like Scourge/Surge situation. So big waste of time.

 

The ONLY way I see it work if organized group of fans hired a lawyer, prepared all the paperwork and list of possible owners and then convinced them to sign one by one. Good luck with that.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

And after all of that... there is still chance IDW won't use the characters

That’s fine. We don’t need a comic series to use them. Let’s have them in Sonic 4 the movie.

[Rabbitearsblog]

2 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

That’s fine. We don’t need a comic series to use them. Let’s have them in Sonic 4 the movie.

That's if a "certain somebody" doesn't try to claim whatever characters pop up in the fourth Sonic movie.