Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Forte-Metallix]

Speaking of which, I just got said issue in the mail. My thoughts:

Spoiler

-I can't believe the Sky Patrol is f--king dead. And by Orbot and Cubot's hands, no less!

-Bunnie just tore through that E-Series bot! If only she was the one to confront it on the train! And good on Tails for shooting down that skyward bot! That just leaves the other two who ambushed them earlier and... wait, what other Eggman-loyal E-Series Badniks are there? I only remember the cat one who got trashed by Mighty.

-It was so sweet seeing Sonic go Werehog one last time! He absolutely decimated the Dragoon! Part of me's really gonna miss this feral side of Sonic, especially since I'm one of the three people who actually loved his Unleashed gameplay.

-So Eggman not only shattered the world by accident, he inadvertently helped Dark Gaia pull itself together. Smooth move, Egghead.

-So it usually takes Chip hundreds of years to beat Dark Gaia into submission? That sounds really tedious. Lucky thing Super Sonic is here to help speed things up!

So now we've got three finales to look forward to: Knuckles punching Naugus's teeth in, Sonic boosting through Dark Gaia's face repeatedly, and the Classic Quartet collecting more Macguffins to destroy the Mega Drive! The rest of the year is looking pretty bright!

 

[Big Panda]

So the Sky Patrol is completely destroyed now?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Ya know, I kinda saw that coming to be honest.

Good lord is Eggy unhinged in that preview...

[Forte-Metallix]

8 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

 

  Hide contents

So the Sky Patrol is completely destroyed now?

 

Spoiler

Well, the Death Egg completely trashed one of its wings, forcing it to crash-land in (presumably) the ocean. There's a lot of internal and external damage, and the ship isn't flying again any time soon, but there's still enough to salvage and rebuild it without having to start from scratch. And again, it wasn't Eggman or the BBA who brought the craft down for the count- it was Orbot and Cubot!

Oh, and Rotor and Nicole came out of it essentially intact.

 

[goku262002]

On 9/9/2016 at 0:25 PM, VEDJ-F said:

Preview for StH#286 is officially available.

This confuses me a bit, didn't the events of Generations already happen? then unless they got their minds wiped at the end of Generations shouldn't Sonic and Eggman remember this bout they had during those events?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, goku262002 said:

This confuses me a bit, didn't the events of Generations already happen? then unless they got their minds wiped at the end of Generations shouldn't Sonic and Eggman remember this bout they had during those events?

Generations didn't occur exactly how it did in the games. It's likely Unleashed, and Lost World just never got visited due to not happening yet. The only details we know about the Archie adapt is that it led directly into Worlds Collide.

[goku262002]

So Ian never explained what happened during the comic's unseen adaption of Generations? I do wonder what zones took place of Unleashed's areas.

[Forte-Metallix]

2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Generations didn't occur exactly how it did in the games. It's likely Unleashed, and Lost World just never got visited due to not happening yet. The only details we know about the Archie adapt is that it led directly into Worlds Collide.

No, Flynn confirmed that the Unleashed parts of Generations did happen- they just involved Sonic going forward in time instead of back.

So that is a legitimate question: Shouldn't Sonic and Eggman have had a sense of deja vu? And what events in Spagonia did Sonic get a preview of in Gens?

[Fletch]

I always was rather confused on Generations already happening in the comics. I wish that Unleashed and Generations already happened in comic book canon and instead we could have just received an original arc to do world building with mini flash back arcs every now and then to see the game history in the comics went down in the comics.

Just the whole Generations happened before Unleashed feels a bit too confusing since the game was always meant to happen after, and it doesn't help that the arc here itself in the final moments doesn't bring any mention to Sonic and the Egg Dragoon already fighting each other (or any hints/clues to what happened in Archie Generations), so now we're just scratching our heads about something that could have easily been avoided. 

Other than that (spoiler thoughts - #286)

I really enjoyed the fact that Orbit got a chance to actually do something of great significance here. I was honestly hoping that the Sky Patrol would have been completed totaled which would allow the Freedom Fighters to stop traveling together in the sky for a bit. Eh.

Also, Super Sonic looked very nice at the end of the issue.

[NegaMix]

It could simply be that Sonic and his friends forgot the events of Generations once the Time Eater was destroyed, and maybe all the classic characters just returned to their original place in the timeline after that (which could explain why Classic Eggman wasn't seen when Dr. Wily found the Chaos Emerald). At least, that's how I see it right now.

[Dr. Detective]

I was getting issue 200 flashbacks while reading through that preview. Sonic's attitude is completely at odds with the situation and Eggman's acting like he's already lost. The fight just started and he's ramming the Egg Dragoon into shit. 

If the two of them could just dial it back just a little bit, I feel as though I'd be completely on board. So far, I've been enjoying the events that have been transpiring lately, regardless of a few problems I've had with the Unleashed adaption as a whole.

Taking the good parts of this adaption and the good parts of the game's story could make for a really well done planetary restoration saga. 

Plus, the Chaotix showed up once. So that's good.

 

[Forte-Metallix]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

I was getting issue 200 flashbacks while reading through that preview. Sonic's attitude is completely at odds with the situation and Eggman's acting like he's already lost. The fight just started and he's ramming the Egg Dragoon into shit. 

If the two of them could just dial it back just a little bit, I feel as though I'd be completely on board. So far, I've been enjoying the events that have been transpiring lately, regardless of a few problems I've had with the Unleashed adaption as a whole.

Taking the good parts of this adaption and the good parts of the game's story could make for a really well done planetary restoration saga. 

Plus, the Chaotix showed up once. So that's good.

 

Well, it was do or die for Eggman at that point.

He needed to stop Sonic then and there or else all his plans to conquer the shattered world would crumble apart. Eggman's been throwing absolutely everything he has at the Freedom Fighters throughout this arc because this is the best opportunity he's had yet for total domination. And with the Death Egg on its last leg, and Sonic coming so close to taking control of the Emeralds and Temples, Eggman couldn't afford to take any chances.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Well, it was do or die for Eggman at that point.

He needed to stop Sonic then and there or else all his plans to conquer the shattered world would crumble apart. Eggman's been throwing absolutely everything he has at the Freedom Fighters throughout this arc because this is the best opportunity he's had yet for total domination. And with the Death Egg on its last leg, and Sonic coming so close to taking control of the Emeralds and Temples, Eggman couldn't afford to take any chances.

Your post is a little confusing to read. You're typing in the past tense for some reason and I don't exactly know why.

"Well, it was do or die for Eggman at that point." What does "at that point" mean? The fight just started. Do you mean "at this point" ? 

And "Eggman couldn't afford to take any chances?" What exactly are you talking about? He couldn't afford to take any chances in accordance to what? 

All I'm talking about is how immediately desperate Eggman all of a sudden is coming off as after he showed up on the scene completely confident. I understand that he's angry and frustrated with Sonic but I feel it should be balanced with that confidence a bit more to show that he still does have pretty relevant control over the situation at the moment.

Same with Sonic. He can be confident and showcase his ego if he wants but the comics, for some reason, consistently throw out any sort of hint that he's reacting towards a devastating situation. I really wish they'd balance the two of them out a bit more.

This act where Eggman's just completely acting as though his plans have fallen to shit just because Sonic is here and where Sonic isn't taking Eggman seriously even a little bit works in a few certain situations. I don't feel like this should be one of them.

[Big Panda]

15 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

No, Flynn confirmed that the Unleashed parts of Generations did happen- they just involved Sonic going forward in time instead of back.

So that is a legitimate question: Shouldn't Sonic and Eggman have had a sense of deja vu? And what events in Spagonia did Sonic get a preview of in Gens?

You know what, I don't Sonic has even been to Spagonia during the Shattered World arc. It's only been visited by other characters (Chuck, Sally and Rotor, etc.)

Though, saying that, Sonic had never been to Radical Highway in comic of game canon and yet it's in Generations 3DS.

[DabigRG]

4 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Though, saying that, Sonic had never been to Radical Highway in comic of game canon and yet it's in Generations 3DS.

Well, technically he could have ran through it while he was on the lam.

[Your Vest Friend]

6 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Though, saying that, Sonic had never been to Radical Highway in comic of game canon and yet it's in Generations 3DS.

Ehh...while he wasn't in the level directly; he's kinda been there.

1. In the intro of SA2. 

2. Sonic and Shadow meet in an unnamed area after City Escape and Radical Highway respectively. However, since City Escape was in the day and Radical Highway was at night, then it can be assumed that the place was much closer to Radical Highway, if not directly being part of it. 

[AtomicPencils]

3 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Ehh...while he wasn't in the level directly; he's kinda been there.

1. In the intro of SA2. 

2. Sonic and Shadow meet in an unnamed area after City Escape and Radical Highway respectively. However, since City Escape was in the day and Radical Highway was at night, then it can be assumed that the place was much closer to Radical Highway, if not directly being part of it. 

I think it's safe to say they met somewhere in Mission Street. That stage is directly in between those two, so it makes sense.

 

Spoiler

 

[ShadowSJG]

Shadow and Silver should get their own Sonic Universe arc. In the comics, they've barely interacted.

[MetalSkulkBane]

Just read the 286 and it feels...kinda rushed.

Spoiler

Is there a way to look at your older post faster than manually searching through topic?

Either way I remember commenting "Sally has a chance to redeem herself, fighting E-100 trio again. Cool" Well, looks like I jumped to conclusion, since she barely does anything. Two badniks go down in seconds, other three (not 2?) die of screen or by lack of power. We don't even see Rotor fight Death Egg, we're just told he did. Sonic part is good, but Fredoom Fighters do so little, they practically just pad the thing (also, fight with Egg Dragoon is okay, but Werehog takes it down in two pages and that's sliiightly anti-climatic. Wouldn't it make more sense to start the fight in Werehog mode?).

Art is good though. I didn't even notice the change from Skelly to Thomas. The only part that could been better is Dark Gaia reveal

Over all "we could use extra page for character X" is a theme of this issue, which makes me frown even more at 285 and 283. Last issue is Super Sonic VS Dark Gaia, so I doubt there are any surprises left.

[Your Vest Friend]

I could tell the transition happened, but it is a pretty hard tell if you're not looking for the signs.

1. Skelley's Werehog is generally "tamer". Despite the expression work, the actual fur and clothing is more refrained and smooth. You see that in the one panel she draws him (which looks like how she drew him in Champions), but then you immediately switch to Adam Bryce Thomas, who does the fur and clothing more wild and frayed. 

2. Expression work is the big key. Skelley is more cartoony and over the top outside of certain shots, which stops when the Werehog starts fighting Eggman.

Also yeah, this'll probably earn itself a story rant. Not for #286 itself, mind.

[Dr. Detective]

So I just read SU #83 - Shattered Part 3 of 4 and... I liked it okay. It was alright. But a few things are bothering me a bit.

This story is no where near as exciting as the Eggman's Dozen arc before it but it's not as bland as something like Spark of Life, where it's focus was on characters I didn't care about and, unlike the Sally Mini-series that I literally just read a few days ago, didn't do anything that impressed me enough to give it a pass. 

I would say it's on the lower middle-grounded end as far as story arcs go. I was intensely amazed that they managed to keep the Omega fight lasting the entire issue. One of my problems with the comics truly has always been how quickly a lot of the fights are resolved. I'd have desired a more well choreographed fight but gems like the Sonic and Mega-Man vs. Bass and Metal Sonic (still my favorite issue in both those crossovers combined) don't come around for naught but once in a millennia it seems.

However, that said, it's starting to hit home just how little is actually going on here because of it and the ending where Naugus regains his powers has me more worried for him then the heroes. With one issue left, they're going to need to include a wrap up at the end of it, which means the fight they have with him stands the chance of going the way most SU Arcs go where the final full page spread of the villain in the third issue transitions into a very quickly resolved bout that rushes into the aftermath. Even Eggman's Dozen couldn't escape that.

However, the biggest thing is that I am completely and utterly confused by the Genesis Wave. 

I have absolutely no idea how it works anymore and I don't have a clue as to how I should be putting the pieces of Naugus' story together. Naugus said Eggman activated it once before within this new continuity which led to him getting trapped in the Twilight Zone or some shit right? And then when he came out he did a bunch of stuff that we never saw that was implied to have been from this new continuity as well before we picked up the story at where the Tails' Doll was fighting Sonic and Tails after Eggman in the other timeline did the Genesis thing again by angrily almost blowing apart the universe in the Megaman crossover correct?

Is that what this is saying happened? I feel no shame in being confused by this and asking for help. The way that wickedly expository scene was done was very sloppy. 

[Forte-Metallix]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

I have absolutely no idea how it works anymore and I don't have a clue as to how I should be putting the pieces of Naugus' story together. Naugus said Eggman activated it once before within this new continuity which led to him getting trapped in the Twilight Zone or some shit right? And then when he came out he did a bunch of stuff that we never saw that was implied to have been from this new continuity as well before we picked up the story at where the Tails' Doll was fighting Sonic and Tails after Eggman in the other timeline did the Genesis thing again by angrily almost blowing apart the universe in the Megaman crossover correct?

Is that what this is saying happened? I feel no shame in being confused by this and asking for help. The way that wickedly expository scene was done was very sloppy. 

Basically, Eggman reset the universe twice in this new reality: First in Sonic Advance 3, which split the planet into several pocket dimensions. Walter got caught in a void between those dimensions, which took away his magic. Then he was forced to rely on Eggman's technology and usurp King Nigel to find a way to restore his magic. Then Eggman and Wily activated the second Wave, which led to Worlds Collide.

Don't bother trying to look at the old continuity, as it had absolutely no impact on Naugus's new history.

[Your Vest Friend]

Okay, so yeah, in retrospect, #283 was still a mess in writing. But here's some more points I've got for it.

1. Okay, so I get wanting to give a co-ordinated effort, but why in the hell did Sally disclose the location of the Chaos Emeralds? If they were so worried about someone spying on them, she could have at least explained that she can't disclose the location, Eggman knows they have the Chaos Emeralds regardless. If he'd have sussed it out after, that'd at least be his smarts in play and not Sally's stupidity.

2. Why even call Honey or the Chaotix? Remember, they're supposed to be acting as diversions against the local Egg Bosses so they don't give the Freedom Fighters any trouble when it came to the Gaia Temples. Not only does Empire City not have a Gaia Temple, it doesn't even have Egg Bosses, or an active Egg force; Breezie controls the place, and she's not interested in things outside of what it can do for her ratings, she wouldn't disrupt the Freedom Fighters. What can they even do?

3. "Obviously we can't take down the Eggman Empire in a day." And then the Freedom Fighters pretty much proceed to do just that. Seriously, even with the Sky Patrol being downed twice and all the knocks, there's no way any more than half a day passed for this assault. 

4. Great to see Dulcy followed up on the promise to help set up a diversion by...napping afterwards (as shown in #285). 

5. And with #286, it's basically set in stone that we won't see them helping out for the rest of the arc, and at best we might see everyone react to the world being fixed, because the actual meat will (should) be Super Sonic vs Perfect Dark Gaia and Chip's farewell. So yeah, Sally might as well have not broadcast, and they'd probably have had an easier time of fighting Eggman.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

So, due to the announcement of Universe Sagas, I officially gave up hope of the rest of the Universe arcs being released in GN form, so thanks to Archie's Universe sale digitally, I bought up most of the arcs I wanted to read, the exception being Babylon Rising, in which I bought Parts 2 and 3 (I have Part 1 in Best of Sonic Ultimate Collection). Here's my thoughts on the arcs so far. (Babylon Rising excluded until I read the final part). I'll do them throughout multiple posts, but for now, here's Scrambled.

Scrambled: 

Spoiler

One of the best arcs that I've read from the series. Generally everything is on point here, and the man who rescues the arc is easily Eggman himself. Snively isn't a very interesting character in my opinion, but the story here had potential, showing Snively as a person who wants to have his family together, but the story does a good portrayal by showing that Snively is still very clearly in the wrong. He hasn't learned his lesson about attacking Knothole, or tricking Hope, or denouncing Regina. He's still a wormy, egotistical selfish prick who's no better than Eggman. It isn't a story of redemption. It's a story of one evil character trying to backstab another evil character under the pretense of "being better, and wanting family", and Eggman knocking him down to size each and every time.

I think the biggest point of the arc was to build Eggy up as the true villain he is, and to knock Snively down a few pegs after acting like he was "supposedly" better than Eggman morally. Great moments like Hope berating Snively as the evil backstabber he is, and how he'll never change (Which is also sad, seeing as this was her last appearance before being wiped in the New252), Eggman getting the empire back under his control in record time, and the best moment, Eggman smacking Snively with the reality stick when he overplays his importance, where Snively claimed he "put the empire under disarray, braved the United Federation, and did it all for his family", Eggman simply laughs in his face and points out he had the empire back under control within an hour, he only tightened his grip on G.U.N and the United Federation thanks to Snively, as well as once again placing Hope into his aim, and how Regina was likely manipulating Snively for his empire. 

But what can I say, it's the main man himself that makes this arc. Eggman's full bombastic personality is on display here. It's amazing how he can go from over the top and funny to petty, crazy, and creepy. His personality and ego is what makes this arc, because every single big play that Snively tries to make ends up just getting laughed at by Eggman. No matter the situation, the doctor just keeps his cool, and apart from a few over the top reactions, has a plan drafted up to defeat Snively in any instance. It's actually crazy how prepared he is. Within a minute of seeing the Iron Oni, which got Eggman's attention at first, he's come up with five different plans for taking it down, and reveals his trump card. That he doesn't need technology to beat Snively, who's controlling an ancient robot. Eggman beats Snively by building a robot that has no mechanics, therefore The Iron Queen can't control it, then he reveals he had no intentions of using it to destroy the robot Snively controlled, but rather just used it to block any way of Snively getting out of it while Eggman exited his mech and destroying some of the pieces of the Oni with a simple tool, and causing it to fall apart within one further tap to the head. Eggman simply makes this arc for having his character and personality so well defined, and showing that yes, he is a real threat, no matter how easily it seems Sonic takes him down. 

And we might as well talk about it. The ending of the arc. It's absolutely excellent, and displays how truly sadistic, and evil Eggman is in a few pages. He at first makes it look like he's gonna allow Snively and Regina to live together, happily controlling the Dark Egg Legion unit in the United Federation, claiming he's realized the situation could've been avoided if he'd just let them be together in the first place, leaving by simply stating he expects the two to try something like this again, but to do it better. Alright, it looks like the doctor is feeling merciful, and Snively's back in the status quo again...until the Iron Queen begins bragging about how she can abuse her magic on a unit of cyborgs in their control, and a magic techno ring appears around Snively's head, unknown to the queen. We then cut to one of the most chilling pages in the comic to date.

It's a dark room, and Eggman is speaking to a lone prison pod, going over the events of the story, and explaining how he allowed Snively and Regina in peace, until we cut into the prison pod and see a completely broken Snively crying in the pod as Eggman gleefully taunts him. Eggman was done with Snively's constant betrayals. This time, Snively brought his A-Game and still failed hard. Eggman had his fun, and had his trust betrayed. He taunts Snively on how Regina will never know the difference, and the robot will do anything for her due to her magic. All Snively can do is let out a few tears while Eggman keeps taunting him, and it leaves on this last chilling panel:

An excellent story all around.

 

[Forte-Metallix]

3 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Okay, so yeah, in retrospect, #283 was still a mess in writing. But here's some more points I've got for it.

1. Okay, so I get wanting to give a co-ordinated effort, but why in the hell did Sally disclose the location of the Chaos Emeralds? If they were so worried about someone spying on them, she could have at least explained that she can't disclose the location, Eggman knows they have the Chaos Emeralds regardless. If he'd have sussed it out after, that'd at least be his smarts in play and not Sally's stupidity.

2. Why even call Honey or the Chaotix? Remember, they're supposed to be acting as diversions against the local Egg Bosses so they don't give the Freedom Fighters any trouble when it came to the Gaia Temples. Not only does Empire City not have a Gaia Temple, it doesn't even have Egg Bosses, or an active Egg force; Breezie controls the place, and she's not interested in things outside of what it can do for her ratings, she wouldn't disrupt the Freedom Fighters. What can they even do?

3. "Obviously we can't take down the Eggman Empire in a day." And then the Freedom Fighters pretty much proceed to do just that. Seriously, even with the Sky Patrol being downed twice and all the knocks, there's no way any more than half a day passed for this assault. 

4. Great to see Dulcy followed up on the promise to help set up a diversion by...napping afterwards (as shown in #285). 

 

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5. And with #286, it's basically set in stone that we won't see them helping out for the rest of the arc, and at best we might see everyone react to the world being fixed, because the actual meat will (should) be Super Sonic vs Perfect Dark Gaia and Chip's farewell. So yeah, Sally might as well have not broadcast, and they'd probably have had an easier time of fighting Eggman.

 

Well, that's not all true.

The other heroes are still helping by keeping the Egg Bosses occupied. (Remember, Eggman chose not to let them in on his new knowledge, so they presumably don't know about anything going in in this arc) And Eggman supposedly has his forces sprinkled all over the planet. There might not be Egg Army factions in Empire City or wherever the Chaotix live, but they can still help by going to the nearest Eggman base and keeping them occupied. Just because we don't see these characters during this arc doesn't mean none of them are contributing anything. But I agree that broadcasting where the Emeralds and Keys would be kept was a pretty unnecessary choice.

And they're not really taking down the whole Empire; all the heroes are doing is keeping them busy while the Freedom Fighters stall Eggman long enough to fix the planet. The Empire will still be around when this is all said and done.