Future Sonic Heroes and Mario & Sonic Titles confirmed?

[Diogenes]

I think you're missing the point. It's not a matter of story or theme, but of gameplay; every character is crippled to fit in a restrictive mold. Tails can fly...but only a few feet upwards, and only a short distance. Knuckles can punch things...but he can't glide for more than a second or so before dropping like a rock, and he can't climb walls at all. Sonic still runs, but his trademark spindash is replaced with a poorly-functioning team move that tends not to work when you're running.

The rest of the teams get the same treatment. It's one thing to have Shadow play similar to Sonic, but when you look at characters as varied as Tails, Rouge, Cream, and Charmy, and see them all performing nearly the exact same function, it's a bit disappointing. Rather than emphasizing their unique abilities, they're pigeonholed into the strict Speed-Flight-Power setup with only a token attempt to make them unique (no one uses the flying character's ground attacks. Ever.).

And if we're going to go overly analytical on this, I have to say I emphatically disagree that it creates something "larger". To me all it seems to do is reduce the entire cast of the series to three bland archetypes who can't even function on their own. Nothing is increased or improved, just lessened.

[Agent York]

It all depends how they play it out really. Heroes is just the only thing we can assume since Heroes not only was their example but how they worded it out means maybe a similar mechanic. However, the mechanic could play out totally different, the levels could be a different style, the story for all we know could be a writing of modern fiction that entices the masses with it's beauty and characterization bringing new depth and personality, conflict and romance to the characters fleshing them out to be individualistic and memorable while having unique depth without being overly complicated.

Of course, it could also be, "WITH THE SUPER POWER OF TEAM WORK!"

We'll just have to see how SEGA plays their cards. There's nothing wrong with team-based gameplay.

[Lux Klonoa]

Hmm, unless I misread...wouldn't something like Mario & Sonic also count as this "multiplay" game? You know, a crossover team-up?

[Chooch]

Unless the gameplay, level design, visuals, audio, story and you know.. everything are a shitload better (and I mean a shitload) than its predecessor, I don't even want to think about another Heroes game.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Having recently re-played Sonic Heroes (on the PC this time), it actually seems better than I remembered it. The level tropes are really nice and varied, and while the team play isn't perfect, it certainly doesn't detract from the game for me as much as it seems to for Dio and Badnikz Cupcake. Really, if they just fixed the plot / script so it wasn't so... well, GAY, I'd be holding it up there amongst the best 3D Sonics.

So yes, Heroes 2 would be much enjoyed. Although the "teamplay" mechanic could just as easily draw its inspiration from Rivals 2 instead; where the characters are nominally in teams of 2 but the only thing this affects is that occasionally you switch between them as the Acts progress.

[Blue Blood]

So yes, Heroes 2 would be much enjoyed. Although the "teamplay" mechanic could just as easily draw its inspiration from Rivals 2 instead; where the characters are nominally in teams of 2 but the only thing this affects is that occasionally you switch between them as the Acts progress.

Which would defeat the entire purpose I think. No, I'd much rather the teamplay mechanics return the way they did in Heroes, only more refined. You wouldn't be restricted to "* run in a straight line * switch to Knuckles * mash attack * switch to Sonic * run in a straight line * switch to Tails * use thundershoot * switch to Sonic *" etc etc and would instead get more choice. Both in term of level layouts and team members so you can customise the teams as you wish.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Which would defeat the entire purpose I think. No, I'd much rather the teamplay mechanics return the way they did in Heroes, only more refined. You wouldn't be restricted to "* run in a straight line * switch to Knuckles * mash attack * switch to Sonic * run in a straight line * switch to Tails * use thundershoot * switch to Sonic *" etc etc and would instead get more choice. Both in term of level layouts and team members so you can customise the teams as you wish.

So basicly you want Sonic Chronicles 2?

[DaBatGuy]

So basicly you want Sonic Chronicles 2?

Actually it sounds more like something along the lines of Sonic Advance 3 but with better controls, which would be a great concept.

[Chooch]

So basicly you want Sonic Chronicles 2?

The title alone makes it sound more promising.

[Blue Blood]

So basicly you want Sonic Chronicles 2?

Yes of course, an RPG! Thanks for telling me what I want.

Seriously, what? Part of the reason Heroes disappointed people was because every team played as good as identically and you have to play through 14 levels at least 4 times (and lets not forget that most levels recycled areas). That could be gotten around by reducing the number of teams you need to play as and giving a more diverse range of abilities and you would have incentive to return to stages so you could find a different paths.

Crazy Bat Guy said it well actually. The problem with Advance 3 and teams was that the stages didn't taken advantage of the abilities enough (speed routes could be passed as anyone and the power routes were just annoying).

Edited March 17, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Diogenes]

If they do make a Heroes-esque game, I think they really need to rethink the team thing from scratch. I wonder if it might be better to trim the teams down to two members...even if they use the same types as Heroes, since there's 3 of them, there would actually be an appreciable difference between the teams. I think it'd also help them emphasize the team mechanic, if only because it's easier to handle the relationship and interaction between two characters than between 3.

Customizing teams definitely sounds interesting, but I wonder if it might dilute the theme. Pairing up random unrelated characters doesn't press the teamwork theme as much as working with the relationships that actually exist. It'd also be a hell of a lot more work if they actually make the characters somewhat unique, especially the more characters they use...

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Yes of course, an RPG! Thanks for telling me what I want.

Sorry Blue Blood, I wasn't trying to be an ass. Fully customizable party structure is just what you get with Chronicles, so...

Customizing teams definitely sounds interesting, but I wonder if it might dilute the theme. Pairing up random unrelated characters doesn't press the teamwork theme as much as working with the relationships that actually exist. It'd also be a hell of a lot more work if they actually make the characters somewhat unique, especially the more characters they use...

Scripting better-than-Heroes character interaction isn't hard. People do it on fanfiction.net all the time. Hells, even I can do it on occasion, which only serves to prove how easy it must be!

EDIT: O wait, you meant gameplay different. OK, that would be harder.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[Tornado]

I was going to post a "fix this stuff" list, but I'll just Now, I liked Heroes and I still like Heroes. It's still better than anything Sonic Team has done since. However, I won't put up with those problems again. If they fix that stuff (and using the Hedgehog Engine would fix the physics and graphics problems, so no worries there), then I have no qualms with them making another Heroes-type game.

[Blue Blood]

Sorry Blue Blood, I wasn't trying to be an ass. Fully customizable party structure is just what you get with Chronicles, so...

Apology accepted- I misinterpreted your tone.

In Chronicles, for the most part, a different team structure merely changed which items you could reach in the overworld. You weren't ever provided with different routes. In Ocean Palace on Heroes there was one part which game you choice of a of flight or speed/power path. The flight path took you on top of a grassy area whereas the path took you down into a section with falling pillar and a fan. That sort of thing was sorely lacking throughout the rest of the game yet it could have been played to so well. Take for example Big being the only character able to use those fans (cause the umbrella makes sense more than bubble gum or the triangle dive) or Espio the only character who run along ceilings and pass through lasers. Adding too many characters would result in oo little available action if they wanted everyone to be unique.

[LE CHEVAL]

And if we're going to go overly analytical on this, I have to say I emphatically disagree that it creates something "larger". To me all it seems to do is reduce the entire cast of the series to three bland archetypes who can't even function on their own. Nothing is increased or improved, just lessened.

Sorry to hear that. If you'd like to get a better scope of where I'm coming from, I would highly recommend the 1966 film Masculin, Féminin. I feel it's a paragon of the "less is more" ideology I'm pushing forward, but of course I'll have to leave the ultimate choice to watch it not to your discretion.

To speak of the gameplay (which is merely a MacGuffin in the modern video game anyway, but I digress), Sonic Heroes was definitely not without its flaws or areas that went largely under-considered and consequentially under-developed, but in this way it has the largest room for growth. We can expect the main series of games to often have the same few problems repeated over and over because it's simply trying to get Sonic out of an uncanny valley of the current gameplay and into something wholly enjoyable - what's too fast, what's too slow, what's too easy, what's too difficult, how many additional characters is an appropriate amount - there's reform, but little reinvention. Sonic Heroes is something that has a lot nominally set values that can still be changed at will, and so probably has the most room for growth. I don't think we could expect repetition from a sequel as much as a complete reinvention, much as the Alliance Party of Canada was forced to reform itself in the late 90s. (Contrast to other parties, who for all their steadfastness, have gained nothing, the current incarnation of the Alliance has held minority power for several years now.)

[SykoTech]

But he never said Sonic Heroes 2- he just said it was a multiplay-type game like Sonic Heroes, which is enough to frighten me, but it's not a confirmed Heroes 2. Still, I can't help but find this worrying.

I don't think you have to be worried about this actually being Heroes 2. Heroes isn't exactly a beloved entry in the franchise, so I don't see Sega going back and making a direct sequel after all this time. Especially since Sega has become aware that most people don't want to deal with a ton of Sonic's friends (Needlemouse character countdown), and that was a staple of Heroes.

It will probably just be a variant of a teamwork system, and Heroes is the only game he could reference it to. Well he could have used Advance 3, but I suppose that's less significant.

[Detective Shadzter]

I look forward to seeing these other directions they may take with the Sonic franchise, the way he refers to the All-Stars as a seperate franchise could mean there will be more on the way but what should our favourite SEGA characters do next? There's alot of demand for a fighter but as with ASR it will get compared to a Nintendo franchise which in this case would be Super Smash Bros.

[Agent York]

I look forward to seeing these other directions they may take with the Sonic franchise, the way he refers to the All-Stars as a seperate franchise could mean there will be more on the way but what should our favourite SEGA characters do next? There's alot of demand for a fighter but as with this game it will get compared to a Nintendo franchise which in this case would be Super Smash Bros.

Unless it was stylized ala' Virtua Fighter/Fighting Vipers/Sonic the Fighters or styled like the "Vs. Capcom" series, for examples. Hope it's something interesting though.

OH! An RPG could be potentially awesome. 8D

[Detective Shadzter]

Unless it was stylized ala' Virtua Fighter/Fighting Vipers/Sonic the Fighters or styled like the "Vs. Capcom" series, for examples. Hope it's something interesting though.

OH! An RPG could be potentially awesome. 8D

An RPG would be interesting as long as it is made available on all formats and not just solely cheaply developed on the DS like with Sonic Chronicles which was a good game but could have been so much better if it were made for the other consoles too especially as Bioware make great RPG's on Xbox 360 and PC.

I wonder what an All-Stars FPS would be like, they could make it a little wacky like that South Park game on N64 and PS1 Me, my friends and family enjoyed the multiplayer on that game. South Park had its own racing game too aswell as its own quiz game. So if South Park can do racing and FPS then so can the SEGA All-Stars.

[Scarlet2106]

Well, I'd certainly enjoy another Heroes game. Of course, the way it's phrased means it could also cover the Adventure type of gameplay.

Anyway, this is pretty much the strategy I hoped they'd follow. Different 'corners' that cover everyone.

[Thirsty Pocket]

Heroes 2, yesh, Im down with that, but the one thing I ask, Sega, and this is important, but no constant talking in the action stages, please. You can keep your cheesy dialogue, just keep it out of action stages, where I can't skip them.

As for Mario and Sonic... platformer or not interested.

[Tamaki Kawazoe <3]

If they fixed some of the glitches, and make the character models a little bit better, I would be all for Sonic Heroes 2. M&S I don't mind, I actually like both those games. Except the only other thing with Heroes, is that I don't want a mission mode again if they were to make a Heroes 2.

[speedfreak]

As for Mario and Sonic... platformer or not interested.

Developed by Nintendo or not interested.

[Rusty Spy]

If it hints at another Heroes, well, if I had to choose for any other gimmick to return, sure. Just as long as they actually refine it and make it much more intuitive and creative. It's a great chance to do something very unique, and even do a interesting spin on S3&K's differing character styles.

It really works.

Though to be honest, I'd rather it be refined into an Advance 3 in 3D.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Black Spy

[Marcello]

As for Mario and Sonic... platformer or not interested.

No Mario and Sonic at the X-Games?