Opinion The Spin: Why Abhor Sonic 4?

[redmenace]

...

Sega promised nothing, besides HD and gameplay type. They hinted, but like any hint, they might be misinterpreted. I know I fell for it at least. I really thought it would be classic chubby Sonic. I suppose it would fit Sonic 4 as well, but since we only knew the name of the game after the model... Yeah sure, the header was classic Sonic, but it was also 4 Sonics in a row, the first trailer was made based on ignorance as we later knew... I don't know why Megaman 9 is getting cited everywhere either since Sonic 4 was said to be HD from the very beginning and Megaman is 16-bit. Classics gameplay with HD graphics, new mario bros game, and that's what we got. Oh well, whatever. This has been said a million times already and if people are still whining, then logic doesn't apply.

Classic Sonic is the model I like the most. Unleashed model needs to get the quills redesigned. Classic Sonic's back was full of quills, and big ones at that. He looked quite nice and like a hedgehog. I agree that he should be a little fatter too, to accommodate such quills on the back (you hardly see them nowadays). I've got a huge problem with the eyebrow ridge, which has been diminishing with time as well. The mouth is either good or bad, depending of the days. Channel model looks good but Sonic 4's not really. I personally don’t mind the green eyes. I like them. They give him a certain personality I suppose. Besides all of this, Sonic looked cute. He doesn't look like that anymore.

So it's not as if I haven't problems with modern Sonic. I have a lot them and I express them too, and people should do it as well. I just don't go around saying the game will suck because the model is not 100% of my liking, or that it would be good if it's included. It won’t change the quality of the game. If it sucks, it sucks, if it’s great then it’s great. Sonic 06 wouldn’t be better if we put the chubby Sonic in Long Sonic’s place. All this bawing (not much here now, but Sega forums, 4chan and Neogaf are terrible to browse right now) really annoys me though. People are campaigning for a thing that is really not important in the greater scheme of things, instead of concentrating in more important matters. It's children and trolls mostly, which have nothing better to do. I refuse to accept they're classic fans like I am. At least they’re not petitioning Robotnik instead of Eggman though. I’d probably have to take a break from the fanbase if it happened.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9456/ssonicky.jpg

Awww. :3 I love that model. I wish Sonic's design went this route...

He doesn't even have a shit-eating grin in the life icon, he's smiling just like classic Sonic.

He looks really cute there. The mouth does wonders.

[Phos]

I think you severly underestimate the interconnectedness of Sonic's proportions as well as just how recognizable he is. It's a deadly combination of factors common to all iconic characters; You can't do a lot of tweaking to the design without effectively screwing the entire package up, and your best choice will always be to redesign.

Sonic's proportions varied a lot, even by just comparing the Sonic CD artwork to the Sonic 1 artwork you can see this much. The head-to-body ratio was all over the place back then, even among the 3D games.

Case in point is the body which you argue that it would look better shortened. Well, I've found that the stomach's length is basically a dead giveaway to the size of the eyes and subsequently the size of his head (a proportion I believe rings true for Classic Sonic as well. xP) With his head in place, you can now determine the size of his hands, his shoes, where the spines fall in relation to the rest of his body, etc. The proportions are practically as fixed as a fractal snowflake, thus merely shortening his body, arms, and legs when he still has those big feet and head of his isn't going to cut it; He will look really awkward unless you put him back into alignment.

I actually meant to address his hands and feet in that post, I just forgot. Yeah, you'd want to make his hands and feet smaller. But no, I'm not doing his off the top of my head, I have a full design in mind. I just don't have a better way to represent it yet.

Sonic's eyes in the Oshima drawing look nothing like modern Sonic's eyes from any year. They are excessively pointed at the top which gives him a somewhat cockier or even demonized look. As Chris Sanders and perhaps other Disney vets will tell you, the more rounded, streamlined, and flowing something is, the friendlier it will naturally look.

This kind of confused me at first, but I think you thought that the picture I linked was of a design I liked? No, actually I was saying the the new design's eyes have the same overall shape as those of the old American design. These eyes are way too rakish, and they have that funny cleft in the middle of his brow line. This is the exact reason why I prefer Oshima's design in this respect. The eyes are more rounded.

It's a very friendly design.

The new one's eyes are practically in the shape of a V. The low brow line makes him look almost angry all the time. Plus, he called me a looser. See, there he goes again, he's doing it to you!

The toes of his shoes point upwards and subsequently curve more into the sole,

The soles of the classic shoes aren't the widest part, they budge slightly the whole way around. This gives them the same kind of curve, but on the entire shoe rather than just the toe. It looks like he has 250 GTO's for feet.

Ignoring the fact that you're assuming that the life icon won't be monochrome, how often are you going to be looking at it, and how much are a few green pixels going to be a detriment to yours or anyone else's enjoyment? It's practically negligible.

OK, fine, the end-of-level sign post.

[SuperStingray]

The new design look more like a runner, but the old design looks much more like a gymnast.

You bring up an interesting point there. Their design's do often correlate with their associated movement styles.

his movement seems mostly based on using the environment. He rolls around loops, jumps between rocks, and rolls up a chain.

By comparison

his movements seem more about traversing it. He dashes straight along the ground and jumps between the walls simply because they're the way forward rather than a tool for momentum.

I guess there's a certain psychological implication in the design. After they revealed the use of the modern design, I thought back to that blog quote soon after:

"Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse."

I started to wonder why they chose that design in the first place to push that concept, so it made me think if the design aesthetic could be utilized in a way that brings forth that exhilaration in a mentally engaging manner, i.e. Sonic's dimensions approach the golden mean as he accelerates to his top speed.

I guess it doesn't matter which exact model they use, just as long as it's capable of tieing you into the game.

Just my thoughts.

[edge.]

This fanbase is tearing apart at the seams at this point with this game. Damn controversy.

[SuperStingray]

This fanbase is tearing apart at the seams at this point with this game. Damn controversy.

I predicted this would be the threshold game that would make the split worse than its ever been, but I didn't think it would start this early.

[Remy]

god it's like you guys have never been on a sonic forum around a game release, lol

everyone forgets Shadow, haha

[Dreadknux]

I'll be honest with you, at least we're debating (I won't use the term 'arguing' anymore, because I don't really see any of that going on - kudos to you guys for diffusing volatile aggressive situations, I didn't really want to have to get involved again ) things about a game that's likely to turn out good. Or at least, better than 'modern Sonic' (ignoring the use of modern Sonic in Sonic 4).

I mean, if I had to pick between seeing a debate on how 'retro' Sonic should look, or whether Sonic should be snogging a human princess (or if humans should be in Sonic at all) in a world that depressingly looks like a ripoff of Armageddon, I'd happily pick the first one. It's surely the lesser of two evils. At least with the former, we're just down to silly/important nitpicking on finer details.

[BlazingTales]

This kind of confused me at first, but I think you thought that the picture I linked was of a design I liked? No, actually I was saying the the new design's eyes have the same overall shape as those of the old American design. These eyes are way too rakish, and they have that funny cleft in the middle of his brow line. This is the exact reason why I prefer Oshima's design in this respect. The eyes are more rounded.

It's a very friendly design.

The new one's eyes are practically in the shape of a V. The low brow line makes him look almost angry all the time. Plus, he called me a looser. See, there he goes again, he's doing it to you!

Actually, I believe Sonic's newer design's eyes are more liken to that of Sonic CD's Sonic designs.

As you can see, the eyes (and entire facial structure) practically line up in shape and position.

Edited February 8, 2010 by BlazingTales

[Indigo Rush]

Anyone have have some spare popcorn? This is getting intense.

[HunterTSF]

...so, anybody else diggin' that beautiful blue sky on Sonic Channel's Sonic the Hedgehog 4 page? It certainly is relaxing to stare at it.

[Indigo Rush]

...so, anybody else diggin' that beautiful blue sky on Sonic Channel's Sonic the Hedgehog 4 page? It certainly is relaxing to stare at it.

It reminds me a little of the Sonic CD title screen, which isn't a bad thing.

It's still missing some sort of land mass in the background. I don't think Sonic would like playing through a game made entirely of water.

[BlazingTales]

...so, anybody else diggin' that beautiful blue sky on Sonic Channel's Sonic the Hedgehog 4 page? It certainly is relaxing to stare at it.

I love it! I really hope that it will be similar to the game's title screen, perhaps with some more detail, anyway!

Edited February 9, 2010 by BlazingTales

[Nepenthe]

The scrolling sky is awesome indeed, and it makes me hopeful that it's a bit taken from this game's undoubtedly awesome opening, which is a Sonic CD homage wherein we zoom onto an island full of obstacles and traps that Sonic makes his bitch one by one with his impressive acrobatic skills, all accompanied by the glorious visuals of VE Animation. Mmmm. <3

Oh wait, where was I? Oh yeah, debating and annoying people--

Sonic's proportions varied a lot, even by just comparing the Sonic CD artwork to the Sonic 1 artwork you can see this much. The head-to-body ratio was all over the place back then, even among the 3D games.

Oh, I was referring specifically to the Unleashed/Sonic 4 model since it was a part of the original tangent; Apologies.

I actually meant to address his hands and feet in that post, I just forgot. Yeah, you'd want to make his hands and feet smaller. But no, I'm not doing his off the top of my head, I have a full design in mind. I just don't have a better way to represent it yet.

If we're still referring to the Unleashed model and merely resize his body but forget his head, you will probably get something akin to Excessive Sackboy Syndrome, rendering the poor hedgehog into an inconceivable mess. All of the proportions and ratios are practically fixed, and making a mistake in trying to achieve any of them gives Sonic this uncanny valley feel to him; This happens in my artwork often much to my chagrin. A whole new design like the one you're picturing would be a much better solution then, again, trying to crunch and mold the current incarnation into something it was never actually supposed to be.

This kind of confused me at first, but I think you thought that the picture I linked was of a design I liked? No, actually I was saying the the new design's eyes have the same overall shape as those of the old American design. These eyes are way too rakish, and they have that funny cleft in the middle of his brow line. This is the exact reason why I prefer Oshima's design in this respect. The eyes are more rounded.

Ah, that design. In that case, I see what you mean, although I don't agree that modern Sonic's eyes lean any closer to the other American design's. They're perfectly round, and not tapered off at the top. If anything, that third Sonic head bears much more resemblance to the American design in eye structure, and the eyes of the former two heads are essentially akin to the eyes on the new model, just with the lack of a rounded brow.

The new one's eyes are practically in the shape of a V. The low brow line makes him look almost angry all the time. Plus, he called me a looser. See, there he goes again, he's doing it to you!

We are two nerds arguing about the aesthetics of fictional blue shrew-thingies on a message board while said fictional blue shrew-thingie is making more bank then we'll ever see collectively in our lifetimes. We are sadly losers, buddy. Sorry.

Anyways, you think Sonic looks angry? With the way his face looks now, he sends across a whole host of other things to me-- Contentedness, focus, determination, interest, daydreaming, and maybe even obliviousness, but not anger. There's a warm thoughtfulness to his expression now, and honestly I'm not sure what it is that gives me that emotional response...

Maybe the eye color? *shot*

The soles of the classic shoes aren't the widest part, they budge slightly the whole way around. This gives them the same kind of curve, but on the entire shoe rather than just the toe. It looks like he has 250 GTO's for feet.

I don't think I got across my observation well, so lemme try that again-- Because the shoes' toes point slightly upward, the roundness of the sole is more noticeable. This helps emphasize the flow and roundness of the shoes and subsequently the flow and form of the entire figure as a whole. Classic Sonic's toes hit the ground and his shoes are a lot more narrower and flat anyways which, despite having a curve to them, detracts from it regardless. It also easily allows artists to render the shoes as practical triangles without getting into too much trouble. xP

OK, fine, the end-of-level sign post.

That's not much more of a step up considering you'll see the life icon for longer than you'll see the sign posts-- Still not enough to warrant you Hulk smashing. <3

[Rusty Spy]

Anyone have have some spare popcorn? This is getting intense.

I would, but I can't find that gif of Michael Jackson nomning on popcorn in Thriller.

That's not much more of a step up considering you'll see the life icon for longer than you'll see the sign posts-- Still not enough to warrant you Hulk smashing. <3

At least it won't be Shaq dressed as Wonder Woman.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Black Spy

[Phos]

Oh wait, where was I? Oh yeah, debating and annoying people--

Don't worry, you're not annoying me. This is exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping to have.

Ah, that design. In that case, I see what you mean, although I don't agree that modern Sonic's eyes lean any closer to the other American design's. They're perfectly round, and not tapered off at the top. If anything, that third Sonic head bears much more resemblance to the American design in eye structure, and the eyes of the former two heads are essentially akin to the eyes on the new model, just with the lack of a rounded brow.

Anyways, you think Sonic looks angry? With the way his face looks now, he sends across a whole host of other things to me-- Contentedness, focus, determination, interest, daydreaming, and maybe even obliviousness, but not anger. There's a warm thoughtfulness to his expression now, and honestly I'm not sure what it is that gives me that emotional response...

Maybe the eye color? *shot*

New Sonic's eyes look too elongated to me, thanks to that thicker bit in between them, and that steep sustained angle on it makes him appear to be scowling. Oshima's design would sometimes look like that, but New Sonic's brow always looks like that. It doesn't help that that was the face old Sonic would make while angry. It's also basically how old-ish cartoons would depict cyclopeses as angry. Then there's that cleft in the middle of his brow. Why's that there all the time? That's only supposed to show up so clearly when you're angry. It looks weird to me when he smiles, almost creepy. Maybe Sega wants to beat everyone to the punch and have a character that they can market towards Klingons. XD

I don't think I got across my observation well, so lemme try that again-- Because the shoes' toes point slightly upward, the roundness of the sole is more noticeable. This helps emphasize the flow and roundness of the shoes and subsequently the flow and form of the entire figure as a whole. Classic Sonic's toes hit the ground and his shoes are a lot more narrower and flat anyways which, despite having a curve to them, detracts from it regardless. It also easily allows artists to render the shoes as practical triangles without getting into too much trouble. xP

I think you've got a slightly incorrect idea of how the form of Sonic's shoes - They don't have a cusp where the body joins the sole, they just curve tightly inwards. They had also become considerably shorter and more rounded about the toe by the time Sonic 3 rolled around. This was more pronounced in that game's sprites.

But I will admit, the new shoes aren't bad, I just like the old shoes more. They've got kind of an abstract nature to them where they kind of look "almost possible". I also like how they're almost unbroken silhouettes of red.