What would ruin Needlemouse for you?

[Patticus]

Part of what made the old games' level designs so great was that most stages had two or sometimes three different, often interwoven paths to the end of the level, and when Sonic 3 and Knuckles came around this was taken to wonderful new heights of ingenuity through the introduction of sections that only certain characters could reach, with co-operative two-player gameplay allowing Sonic access to some otherwise-inaccessible parts when desired, and level endings and beginnings which occasionally played out differently depending on your choice of character.

I suppose this was an early version of what came later in 3D Sonic games with character play modes, then different teams and shit like that... but it was a much simpler setup involving 3 characters and I think it works better than its successors as a result. If they could build on that setup by allowing Knuckles and Sonic, or Knuckles and Tails to play together, the potential new stage designs could with a quality design team be rather lovely.

[Tornado]

If the final game ends up being designed anything like either of the Rush or final two Sonic Advance games, be it through level design, physics implementation or even simply boost, then Sega can go screw themselves. Keep in mind that I would probably still enjoy it taken by its own merits if it was like the Advance 2 or SRA; but after all of this hype and nonsense of hearkening back to classics, if it was any where near one of those four games it would only prove once and for all that no one at Sonic Team even has a fucking clue anymore. And truth be told, I am actively worried that the game may very well end up being that way, but that is for another thread. All other major problems that I would have with the game, be it the music style, DLC only or not, "shitty friends," game length and even story, are pretty much tertiary in nature by comparison.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Tornado

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Bad execution pretty much sums up everything else I'm gonna say and one that I argue almost all the time whenever it is something involving a new idea or a new anything. It is this primary factor that, when done poorly, ended up with all the previous installments failing to the levels they did. Had it been done decently, the Gun idea would've (possibly) been a good idea for certain characters, Vehicles would've been some great optional content, Telekinesis parts would've done much better, Stories would've actually been good despite the content within them, other characters wouldn't be called "shitty", I could go on. But hey, that's what happens when you screw this factor up.

Bad Level design would really hinder things. Part of what made the Classics last as long as they did was because they actually had levels that weren't littered with endless pits to where a simple slip could end your life drastically (even though that may be exaggerating things a bit). They also had some good passage ways, multiple routes and such that allowed for you to explore without too much of a hassle, and you aren't required to just speed through the stage in the fastest time possible. You could do that, but you would miss out on some really good goodies.

Speed being the main focus. Seriously, I don't care what the hell the trailer said about "Speed returns", if speed becomes the only thing this game values it is not even worth me playing. I really want to shoot whoever blasted this notion on the net right in the eye, because that ended up with Unleashed having a mediocre feel for me.

And a soundtrack that has more Rock music than any other genre wouldn't be something I find appealing. Not that there is anything wrong with Rock, but the Classics had a soundtrack with various genres of Jazz, Big Band, Latin, Electronica, Rock, etc. I can name quite a lot of the genres that the levels played in the classics, and I would really enjoy a game with a varied soundtrack.

That's about it for now.

Wow, that's really sad. I always thought of classic elitists as the worst,and I'm more on the classic side of the fence myself. But anyone who is (even remotely) wanting a game to fail just so they can act immature like that is definitely the worst the fanbase has to offer.

I hated every single idea that Sonic 06 ran on, but I certainly didn't want the fail to turn out to be a steaming pile...which it was.

Anyways, enough about how bad (some) of the fanbase is. I agree with wwhat speedfreak said. This is suppose to be classic, so I want good classic mechanics. If it plays like Sonic Advance 3, I'll cry.

Don't know what you, or Legendary Emerald, have been reading, but if it's something involving the folks would laugh at everyone who thinks that Sonic only works in 2D (Like I did) then I can certainly say you're taking those comments too far to heart. Those who would laugh at everyone for this are among those who would NEVER hope for this game to fail just to laugh.

I'll admit, I did say that it was the possiblity of opening everyone's mind to good execution is what would almost make want this game to fail, but that wasn't to say that I wanted this game to fail just to laugh at folks. Even with the possibility of the game's failure opening folks minds, there's also the possibility of the game darkening others, and that isn't something anyone wants.

[Dummy Bear]

I'm just more angered that if this game is good I can't play it.

Yeah, it's already "ruined" for me for this very reason.

That and having to settle for the next lame storybook game.

[Patticus]

The Wii could very easily be given a new 2D Sonic game if the developers' heads weren't so far up the arse of HD.

[Candescence]

Basically, the last three points on Patticus' first post in the topic, and everything else he and Tornado said.

Also, I will rage if they try to pull the fake difficulty/trial and error bullshit that Unleashed had. Heck, if they simply do that bullshit involving placing easily-accessible extra lives in front of areas where you die a lot, it will be an epic fail in itself.

The Wii could very easily be given a new 2D Sonic game if the developers' heads weren't so far up the arse of HD.

Agreed. You don't need HD to pull some beautiful 2D visuals - Wario Land: Shake It! and Muramasa come to mind, and the LostWinds games are fucking gorgeous 2.5D games.

[Semi-colon e]

I expect it to be quite good, but like Sonic Advance 1 good rather than Sonic CD good.

I would be very disappointed if it was just like Sonic 1 and 2 with different levels, very similar badniks, and the very first level being not-Green Hill etc. The whole point of this is to be classic styled, so I hope it's not just a rehash. It would just be forgettable if it was a rehash. I would like to see new ideas. Or even something not quite classic but in classic style gameplay. Imagine White Acropolis in classic Sonic style. That would be cool. But I am partial to that stage as a whole :x

[Double A]

Hi

I'm an idiot who don't like 2D Sonic games and this game is probably already ruined the way everyone talks about it. You enjoyed first Sonic games because you were 10 not because it was particulary good, but if you need to be convinced that way, fine, they'll make a retro Sonic to shut you off and it will get not-so-good reviews as usual, then maybe you'll start to think about a new theory to explain why Sonic series have problems other than ''because it's not like Sonic 2''.

thank you

[Djawed]

Hmm. I think the boost would ruin it the most.

If it were 3d it wouldnt be that big of a deal but id rather see the game in beautifull colorfull 2D-HD

[lounge]

As long as they make sure the object placement isn't as cheap as it was in the genesis games.

Also, embarrassing dialogue would be a turn off. I pray they don't get the Unleashed writer to do the story, if they even have one.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Brevity.

The level design, character design, music, blah blah blah can be as good as anything the Genesis games had to offer, but if it's a paltry 7-zone, finished-it-on-the-first-day affair, I will be seriously displeased.

[Djawed]

Brevity.

The level design, character design, music, blah blah blah can be as good as anything the Genesis games had to offer, but if it's a paltry 7-zone, finished-it-on-the-first-day affair, I will be seriously displeased.

unless its very hard and challenging to finish. A sick end-boss. But yea id rather see more than 7 zones.

[Dark Qiviut]

A few for me.

1. Broken, uncontrollable gameplay. If I can't control the game, then I won't have fun, period.

But there are others that are more personal.

2. A complete rehash of the Classics. Sure, the Classic gameplay was so-called "timeless" (although for me, it aged very rapidly over the past two years). But I want the games to literally be different every single time. I want there to be very noticeable differences in the gameplay compared to the Classics, not small "tweaks" that only an art director can recognize. I prefer P.N. to have the game be a combo of many games, even the 3D ones, while giving fresh ideas, too. If the game feels and plays EXACTLY the same, and if there aren't any differences, I'll indefinitely call it a lame rehash of the Classics. I don't want my game to feel like a Classic game that I've played before in disguise.

3. The story aspect is a concern, but mostly on the characterization and timeline. That's where the badnik concerns me, especially if an animal is inside the robot. If it's pre-Adventure 2, then I'm fine with it, as he put animals in the robots until Heroes. But if the game follows the storyline -- i.e., after NG or Unleashed -- then it'll greatly bother me, especially if animals are trapped inside. Eggman's the best written character in the franchise, and the characterizations and character development are why I closely follow the series. If it takes place after Adventure 2, and if the robots have animals inside, then the developers and writers really screwed up Eggman's character. Eggman gave the robots personalities of their own; he no longer NEEDED animals. Animal-controlling badniks just don't match him as a character anymore, and bad characterization (especially by Sega themselves) really bothers me.

4. That P.N. is a reboot of the series. This is what really concerns me and will really embarrass me as a fan. The timeline has grown to where the characters are rich, mostly well-rounded, and feel alive. The Classics gave it the environment; the Modern Era developed it even further. The characters have grown, and the series is complex and full of interesting faces, stories, and universes. A total reboot indicates to me that they don't care about the creators and that their hard work is meaningless. It signals me that the games don't count and that we should ignore them. No, I will NOT ignore them. This is why I was greatly angered by the cutscene of Elise blowing out Solaris and retconning everything. Retconning is cheap, confusing, and indicates a lack of care about the franchises. Reboots disrespect me as a fan of the Sonic series, especially to those who care about the characters like myself. If this truly is a reboot of the series, then I will never officially recognize it because it disrespects me so much.

[Solid SOAP]

Brevity.

The level design, character design, music, blah blah blah can be as good as anything the Genesis games had to offer, but if it's a paltry 7-zone, finished-it-on-the-first-day affair, I will be seriously displeased.

To be honest, since the game is going to be set up in episodes, I won't be surprised if this is the case per-episode. However, it will probably be a decent 5-10 hour game once all the episodes are released, with some extra stuff to keep you busy as well.

[Patticus]

The old Sonic games hold up well today against any and all comers and they're not 5-10 hours long. I would much rather see 6-9 lovingly crafted, genuinely clever zones mixing up a bit of speed, precision platforming and badnik bopping and not have that diluted by resources going toward extra episodes.

[Legendary Emerald]

Hi

I'm an idiot who don't like 2D Sonic games and this game is probably already ruined the way everyone talks about it. You enjoyed first Sonic games because you were 10 not because it was particulary good, but if you need to be convinced that way, fine, they'll make a retro Sonic to shut you off and it will get not-so-good reviews as usual, then maybe you'll start to think about a new theory to explain why Sonic series have problems other than ''because it's not like Sonic 2''.

thank you

Is this sarcasm? I can't tell. This is either a very funny post, or one of the most insulting things I've read on here in a while. I'll just treat this as being serious even if it isn't, because I have nothing better to do right now.

First off, I didn't even grow up playing the 2D Sonic games. I mean I tried them out, since we had a Genesis, but I didn't become a Sonic fan until Adventure. What happened over the years though is that I gained more appreciation for the 2D games, and now happen to slightly prefer them over the 3D. I'll be the first to say that Sonic 2 and 3&K aren't as perfect as everyone says, but they are amazingly well made games, and Sonic 1 is almost perfect in every way. Saying that the genesis games aren't good platformers... I don't even see how anyone could argue that position, unless they just have a strong preference for Mario or Bonk.

There is no evidence so far that Needlemouse will get bad reviews. Hell, if it does turn out to be like the genesis games, then the reviewers will probably love it more than the actual fanbase at this point. This is what the websites and magazines have been asking for ever since 2006; unless the game really IS horribly botched, they'd be hypocrites to give it bad reviews.

I've never been one to say that Sonic games should go "back to Sonic 2". But that doesn't mean I don't want more 2D Sonic games alongside the 3D offerings. I don't see why some people think catering to the genesis and older crowd is such a terrible thing. We've had nothing but modern Sonic games for the past decade. Let the other folk have a bone now and again. It's not like there can't be two styles of Sonic games running concurrently (see Megaman franchise).

Anyways, like I said, I don't know if you were wanting to be taken seriously or not, but this post isn't exactly worthless because there are people that think like that.

[SuperStingray]

To be honest, since the game is going to be set up in episodes, I won't be surprised if this is the case per-episode. However, it will probably be a decent 5-10 hour game once all the episodes are released, with some extra stuff to keep you busy as well.

I don't think it was confirmed to be episodic yet.

[Solid SOAP]

I don't think it was confirmed to be episodic yet.

It wasn't exactly confirmed, but someone leaked episodic content and 2 level names, which SEGA abruptly told them to get rid of, so there's a strong chance of that happening.

[Legendary Emerald]

It wasn't exactly confirmed, but someone leaked episodic content and 2 level names, which SEGA abruptly told them to get rid of, so there's a strong chance of that happening.

I'm really sick of this rumor. That's right, RUMOR. Don't trust TSSZ news one bit. It sounds like it could be true, I admit, but I'm not believing anything until SEGA confirms. I'm just a skeptic like that.

That said, I think the rumored info is pretty great, except the name. They really couldn't think of something more original? And "Sonic 4: Episode 1" just sounds silly. Worse than "Final Fantasy X-2".

[Shaddix Leto Croft]

I Know what would ruin this game another pointless god like monster near the end of the game for super sonic to pwn

[Solid SOAP]

I'm really sick of this rumor. That's right, RUMOR. Don't trust TSSZ news one bit. It sounds like it could be true, I admit, but I'm not believing anything until SEGA confirms. I'm just a skeptic like that.

That said, I think the rumored info is pretty great, except the name. They really couldn't think of something more original? And "Sonic 4: Episode 1" just sounds silly. Worse than "Final Fantasy X-2".

It is just a rumor as of now, but I'm just saying, if it happens to be true then that means you won't have to worry about a short adventure since SEGA will probably wind up releasing a disk of all episodes. Also, if the rumor is true, it's called Sonic 4: Episode 1 has a codename of sorts right now, when a legitimate story and gameplay is developed for the game it'd probably have a name along the lines of Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

[Chooch]

I think the whole 'IF THIS GAME HAS ___ IT WILL BE RUINED FOREVER' mentality is stupid.

[Greg the Fancat]

The lack of pinball physics, straight forward and linear gameplay, and uncreative, generic level design would ruin it for me.

[AuroraRedwinters]

Not having a hidden level select/debug mode cheat. Sonic 2's was clever, Sonic 3's was a bitch to perform.

And if this is a return to a more classic style of play for Sonic, then I really don't want to see any of the "modern" elements added in. I am almost hoping it is picking up where Sonic and Knuckles left off. (although I am sad that Tails isn't playable, and might not even be present. Oh sob.)

Oh... and if they refer to Sonic's planet as Earth and not Mobius. Last I checked there wasn't no talking animals or power rings floating around my backyard.

Edited January 25, 2010 by AuroraRedwinters

[Nepenthe]

Oh... and if they refer to Sonic's planet as Earth and not Mobius. Last I checked there wasn't no talking animals or power rings floating around my backyard.

You must have a problem with a LOT of fiction. xP

Anyways, what would ruin Needlemouse for me?... It being a bad game? Despite the classic angle, I'm not going to be particularly picky in whatever Sega ultimately does, so long as they pull it off to the absolute best of its potential.