Why do some people 'round here not like Sonic Unleashed?

[Shiny Gems]

Seriously...I know that some people around here have already stated at least some reasons, but I can't seem to understand why those reasons are enough to some people to hate especially the daytime levels of Sonic Unleashed! Aside from the Werehog and the medal collection, which I do understand why they get such hatred, some issues, especially in the 360 version of the game, I just can't really understand...

For example, the boost feature of the daytime levels and the speed of such levels; those reasons I can't easily phantom. While I admit that it may be an unnecessary feature, I personally find the boost to be a great, newer feature in Sonic games, for it especially helps build momentum if you can't build it up, and even though that wasn't in the classic games, that doesn't mean it's that bad. Plus, it gives you a sense of high speed, and though such speed may not be needed in any Sonic game, and just because the classic Sonic games did not need the boost to be good, does not mean it should be left out of future Sonic games just because the fans want it out, for some other fans, not to mention plenty of people who are new to the Sonic series may enjoy the boost feature, perhaps even better than in the classic games! The boost, especially considering 3D Sonic games, just needs some tweaking and improvement to use, not to mention like taking out that "magnetic ring pulling thing" the boost in SU had; and they should put in more platforming, or make the levels so that you can't EASILY get through most of the level you play through by using the boost, for you would have to do things slowly or use other, more effective actions to get around obstacles that cannot be overcome by the use of the boost, but personally, I think the boost is a great, new feature in Sonic games! Also, while it may be a replacement for the spindash, a move more commonly loved by more classic Sonic fans, let me remind you all that there is more than one way to build up speed and momentum, and while the spindash is more memorable, and though it could have been in this game, it's not like the boost will replace the spindash in future Sonic games. I am sure that if they tweak both abilities, both abilities can be equally useful.

Also, there are the quicktime events. I personally did not mind them being in the game, though they were unnecessary in some areas. While I am not saying that they should be in the next game, for they don't need to be, they could be improved and placed better if they were to appear again. I do admit that the quicktime events were that unnecessary, but aside from the ones found in like Eggmanland, where you may automatically die if you fail a quicktime event, the quicktime events were good at accessing certain areas that would act as alternate paths. Sure, there may be other ways to get to such paths, and though the quicktime events could be made differently if they were used in the next game to be more challenging or something, I don't think that (other than in Eggmanland and Abadat) they were that bad, but that is just me.

Also, there is that trial and error thing in this game, which is made worse to some players to some bottomless pits. Sure, even I admit that the trial and error parts of the levels could have been improved, and some of them, like in Eggmanland, were a pain in the neck, but all in all, trial and error is one of those things that is supposed to be easier every time you practice the level you play through, for your mind unconsciously adapts to the challenges that make up the trial and error parts of the levels. Sure, some of those parts may have been too much to be considered fair, but if trial and error was used in future Sonic games, I am sure Sonic Team would have learned from the trial and error in the previous game (like Sonic Unleashed) so they can make trial and error less painful in the levels of the next game. Trial and error adds to challenge, and challenge is what is supposed to make a game more fun by having you try harder or get better at them, or otherwise, if the difficulty of the game was so easy to go though, the game would become dull quicker. Also, may I add that the daytime levels of Sonic Unleashed, which were mainly speed based, had you go so fast, and the levels were made that you would have to jump over obstacles, press the right button to avoid something or something along those lines. So it's only reasonable for such levels to have such trial and error to deliver challenge to the player.

Also, there are some people who complained about the controls being slippery in the daytime levels. Personally and honestly, I found no problems with these controls at all. Seriously! For those who have trouble in some areas of control, that is because in case Sonic is moving fast, it is harder than in other games to change direction (without the Sonic Drift) or stop because of Sonic's momentum, which, while it may be different from how momentum functioned in the classic games, is supposed to add challenge in terms of moving Sonic around. Plus, in terms of the newer move known as the Sonic Drift, it's not that hard, or even too hard to use; it just needs some adapting to. You just have to tilt the control stick slightly when drifting. Speaking of the control stick, some people complained about moving Sonic with the c-stick like in the sledding areas and some other areas, and I am sure that those people were tapping, holding or violently pushing the control stick to try to move Sonic and get through some parts of the level. Now, let me say, even though you may seem to hold the control stick forward most of the time when controlling Sonic, you're not supposed to hold the control stick like that all the time! Some areas, like the beginning of Rooftop Run Act 1 or the sledding areas in Holoska or Eggman, are easier to get through if you slightly push the control stick a little towards the direction you want Sonic to move! It's that simple!

I may be missing some things, but I am having a hard time understanding why these things are such a big a deal! Can anyone elaborate as to why these issues ruined the daytime levels of the 360/PS3 versions of Sonic Unleashed to some people?

PS: If you want to, can you please also explain why YOU think people would enjoy the next Sonic game if it were just more classic based rather than Sonic Unleashed based?

[jonathan]

From my experience, most fans like the game. Some feel like the day stages are to much like the Rush games which are not liked by them either.

[Shiny Gems]

From my experience, most fans like the game. Some feel like the day stages are to much like the Rush games which are not liked by them either.

While I have seen most fans like the game, your second sentence is what I am more curious about. I know that there are plenty of old school fans who do not like Sonic Rush or the daytime levels of Sonic Unleashed, or at least how those games were made compared to the classic Sonic games. But even those "most fans", even if they liked the game, Wii or Xbox 360/PS3 version, have at least one reason for hating about the game. I just want to get more insight from such people, whether they perfer the old school Sonic games to Unleashed or not. Or are more neutral, in any case.

[Phos]

It seldom feels like you're actually in control of what's going on, you're mostly just letting the level take you to it's end, only intervening when not doing so would kill you, or whenever Sonic needs to homing attack something. I describe it as being "input starved". Also, aside from the textures, there not a whole lot differentiating the levels.

A more classic style 3D game would be more fun because the player would be more in control of what's going on.

[-Mark-]

The Wii version was a rushed, barely-finished and quite frankly rather shoddy mess, I found. =/ Still decent fun, yes, and I don't dislike it by any means, but it was disappointingly lacking in polish.

Haven't really played the 360 one, although I get the feeling I'd like it a lot more.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Mahzes

[redmenace]

I like the HD version.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

It seldom feels like you're actually in control of what's going on, you're mostly just letting the level take you to it's end, only intervening when not doing so would kill you, or whenever Sonic needs to homing attack something. I describe it as being "input starved". Also, aside from the textures, there not a whole lot differentiating the levels.

A more classic style 3D game would be more fun because the player would be more in control of what's going on.

And input starvation isn't just a problem in the Day Stages. In Werehog fight mode, the sophistication of the input extends mostly to "Mash Y to win". You can just about complete the vast majority of fight sections with your eyes closed. And I don't mean that in a good way.

And while your subscript said "Aside from the werehog", I do consider it important to point out that my number 1 objection to Unleashed is that the Werehog isn't Knuckles. Combine this with that goddamn Chip; Professor Pickle; Go Go Power Rangers Gaia Colossus; plus Monster Of The Week #267, and you have a story which causes R-R-R-ROID RAGE.

[lounge]

The day time stages don't even feel fun. When you boost, it's not fun, it's just automatic. Like there's no real actual gameplay. Even running just feels weird. Not like the adventure games where it actually felt good to run and do tricks. In Unleashed it's weird.

And the werehog stages are terrible. You'd think that controlling and playing as sonic the werehog would be like an experience like no other, but it's boring and slow. Not like the Incredible Hulk where you could jump super high and smash anything.

Besides those things, I really hate the whole art direction of the characters and the toned down story.

The graphics are amazing, but it's a shame they had to waste so much effort designing these huge levels when the concept should have been like the sonic stages in the Adventure games.

[cause_of_chaos]

The day time stages don't even feel fun. When you boost, it's not fun, it's just automatic. Like there's no real actual gameplay. Even running just feels weird. Not like the adventure games where it actually felt good to run and do tricks. In Unleashed it's weird.

And the werehog stages are terrible. You'd think that controlling and playing as sonic the werehog would be like an experience like no other, but it's boring and slow. Not like the Incredible Hulk where you could jump super high and smash anything.

Besides those things, I really hate the whole art direction of the characters and the toned down story.

The graphics are amazing, but it's a shame they had to waste so much effort designing these huge levels when the concept should have been like the sonic stages in the Adventure games.

Wow this is EXACTLY what I think! I have a Japanese X360 console and Unleashed (PAL) won't boot on it. So I used to borrow my brother's European X360 to play it. However, I've been on the final boss for 6-months now and have ZERO urge to complete it as the story is just plain boring when compared the previous 3D Sonic titles.

It's really depressing as I thought that Sonic '06 (minus the overly-sensitive controls) was the way forward for Sonic in 3D. It had an epic story and the art / music was really good. I'm playing Sonic '06 now on PS3 (I've finished it in '06 on X360) and am enjoying it much more than I ever enjoyed Unleashed.

I completely understand why people like it though; the changes they've introduced seems to be a major hit with the masses. I'm just not "feeling" what the masses do about Unleashed.

Oh, and I hope Chip gets killed by a stray boulder or something of equal insignificance at the end of the game...

cause_of_chaos

Edited December 13, 2009 by cause_of_chaos

[Sega DogTagz]

Hmm... a reason that I didn't like the Day Stages....

Seeing as how I adored them, coming up with criticisms isn't as easy for me. If there was one glaring problem I could cite, it would defiantly be Adabat(PS360). Don't get me wrong, the stage itself is phenomenal and a blast to both play through or just look at, but Sonic Team really missed an opportunity here. I seriously believe that if the stage didn't lag in that extended water running section, it would be widely considered one of the best stages in the franchise. Now it will forever be shunned into the "Eh, it was buggy" sin bin.

It was easily my most favorite stage since Speed Highway.

[brobotnik]

I didn't mind the daytime stages, I didn't mind Chip (despite the fact that he basically rendered Tails pointless/redundant-- one hovering-over-the-shoulder sidekick at a time, please), and I didn't even mind the idea behind the Werehog.

For SEGA to still be relying on Apocalyptic End-Of-The-World Monsters for every final boss fight (and central plot device, more importantly-- you really, really think Eggman/Robotnik would have learned better by now) is utterly ridiculous, unnecessary, and completely detrimental to the overall status of the franchise.

[Octarine]

I quite liked Unleashed overall, especially in art direction and storyline. It got lightheartedness right in a way that put Heroes utterly to shame; it was epic but simple, pleasantly slapsticky most of the time but emotional when it needed to be. It really felt like Sonic for the first time in ages. The daytime stages were a bit flawed but still a lot of fun, the night stages were... not great, but alright. All in all it was pretty good, and vastly better than '06.

I'll concur with bro-botnik and others on one main thing, though: the final boss fight was pretty bad. A lot of thought clearly went into it, and if that thought had been applied in a different way it might've been fantastic, but instead it was (in the HD version, anyway) a QTE-choked, genre-shifting mess with a pretty generic opponent. Even within the conceit of Eggman waking Dark Gaia (which I didn't really mind), he could've used its energy to power a giant mech or something... anything but another giant monster. He was basically using Dark Gaia as a giant battery anyway; I don't see why that idea wasn't extended further. Pity.

[Scarlet2106]

Day levels over-reliant on the face buttons (and L and R).

No problem with the night levels, though. Just wish he was a little more agile.

Not a fan of the overall theme, either. Couldn't care less about the characters, their designs, the number of them or anything else.

It's a good game, but it's not my thing.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Arcane

[Ebby]

It's really depressing as I thought that Sonic '06 (minus the overly-sensitive controls) was the way forward for Sonic in 3D. It had an epic story and the art / music was really good. I'm playing Sonic '06 now on PS3 (I've finished it in '06 on X360) and am enjoying it much more than I ever enjoyed Unleashed.

I played 06 after Unleashed, and I felt like everyone else. I hated it. It just seemed so inferior to Unleashed. The way-over-the-top story, the slowness of the gameplay, ELISE, horrid camera angles, the overrated, unfitting music, unfitting realism (Eggman looked so off), and I thought the graphics and character models were not top notch. Even though Blaze looks amazing.

With that said. I loved Unleashed. I found the day levels fun (minus Savannah Citadel, dear God... kill it now!) and werehog was quite enjoyable. But I can see why people can see why people hate it. It's simply not for everyone. While I hate the plothole-tastic time travel plot of 06, it comes off as a better idea than a "werehog". However, the werehog came out to be much better gameplay wise, even though it is a STUPID gimmick.

In fact, when it comes to the plot I think what does it the most (besides the plotholes) is Elise. Seriously. Sonic doesn't save random princesses. Mario does. If they never added her, I'd appreciate it more

[Blacklightning]

After the twitch gameplay that occurs in stages in Shamar and Adabat, it baffles me that people can still call this game "auto-guided" or "control-starved" solely over the boosting, particularly when such reckless boosting is the #1 cause of death in just about anywhere but the first few levels. Sure there are straightways and control-robbing boost pads about the place, not gonna deny that, but I can't help but feel some people are completely missing the point of most of the stage design here. As far as my thoughts go, the medal collecting is a pain in the ass (which is kinda ironic actually, considering this came just after fans complained they were completely useless in Sonic '06), especially in the daytime levels where stages are linear and you're only given milliseconds worth of notice to grab them, but that's a one-time thing and is never really an issue after your first playthrough. Daytime gameplay is okay - doing well requires some memorization and mastery of levels and I can honestly see how that can put people off, but absolutely raping a stage up the ass is a pretty good feeling once you get the hang of it. Nighttime gameplay is good outside of fighting - could've been better if not for boring GoW style combos and extremely frequent cases of trapping you in a room until all the enemies are gone.

Like a lot of recent Sonic games, I'd say it's not unfair for somebody to dislike the game, but I can't help but feel people hate it for all the wrong reasons.

For SEGA to still be relying on Apocalyptic End-Of-The-World Monsters for every final boss fight (and central plot device, more importantly-- you really, really think Eggman/Robotnik would have learned better by now) is utterly ridiculous, unnecessary, and completely detrimental to the overall status of the franchise.

I'd hate to break it to you, but it's not 1991 anymore.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

I'd hate to break it to you, but it's not 1991 anymore.

By the same token, it's not 1999 anymore. Sealed-evil-in-a-can Perfect Chaos was fun the first time, but that shit gets old fast.

[Blacklightning]

By the same token, it's not 1999 anymore. Sealed-evil-in-a-can Perfect Chaos was fun the first time, but that shit gets old fast.

All the same, it's hardly the worst of Sonic's problems and prioritizing it over, say, elements that are actually playable is just silly.

[Chooch]

To be honest? I couldn't tell you.

I think the 360/PS3 version is fantastic. Ranks up with the Adventure games and Sonic 3 and Knuckles and being four of my all time favorite Sonic games (and games in general). The Wii version is alright too.

[brobotnik]

I'd hate to break it to you, but it's not 1991 anymore.

Your point being?

If you're trying to argue my point, that's fine. If you're trying to label my comment as crazy "old school" fanatic garbage, however (as a "not 1991 anymore" statement certainly implies), then I'm pretty confused.

If you'd really rather see every future Sonic game end with him facing-off against a low-tier H.P. Lovecraft creation rather than, I don't know, his established nemesis character, then I guess you're going to be pretty stoked about the next twenty awful-to-play, painful-to-sit-through final boss fights that fail to contribute memorable experiences to a franchise that desperately needs them.

Unless SEGA/Sonic Team finally break their own, awful mould, that is. Which is what I'm trying to say.

[Blacklightning]

If you'd really rather see every future Sonic game end with him facing-off against a low-tier H.P. Lovecraft creation rather than, I don't know, his established nemesis character, then I guess you're going to be pretty stoked about the next twenty awful-to-play, painful-to-sit-through final boss fights that fail to contribute memorable experiences to a franchise that desperately needs them.

Unless SEGA/Sonic Team finally break their own, awful mould, that is. Which is what I'm trying to say.

The boss fight was shit. Not gonna deny that. But it seemed more to me that you had some sort of issue with any villain other than Eggman, and frankly, that's just petty. Hell, I got the impression you wouldn't complain if it were just, oh I dunno, a fucking big Egg mech or something like that you wouldn't have complained at all. If that's not the message you were trying to convey, well that's partly my bad I guess, but you still have to admit there was a distinct OMG EGGMAN ISN'T THE FINAL BOSS GAME IS RUINED FOREVER vibe going on with that post. But then again, we got handed the Egg Dragoon and that managed to be a neat boss even despite it being done with the Werehog, so... well, order doesn't mean everything.

If anything, the problem's more in the execution factor rather than the fact people other than ol' Eggy exist. If you just said the final boss was shit and left it at that, there probably wouldn't be any issue.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

The boss fight was shit. Not gonna deny that. But it seemed more to me that you had some sort of issue with any villain other than Eggman, and frankly, that's just petty. Hell, I got the impression you wouldn't complain if it were just, oh I dunno, a fucking big Egg mech or something like that you wouldn't have complained at all. If that's not the message you were trying to convey, well that's partly my bad I guess, but you still have to admit there was a distinct OMG EGGMAN ISN'T THE FINAL BOSS GAME IS RUINED FOREVER vibe going on with that post.

As pejoratively as you've just indicted the position, I'd say that yes, that WAS a problem I had with Unleashed. The Egg Dragoon was considerably more epic than Perfect Dark Gaia, and frankly I would have been far happier if the game had juxtaposed those two fights around.

Have other villains PRESENT, sure, but Eggman should always be the final boss of a Sonic game.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Frozen Nitrogen

[Blacklightning]

As pejoratively as you've just indicted the position, I'd say that yes, that WAS a problem I had with Unleashed. The Egg Dragoon was considerably more epic than Perfect Dark Gaia, and frankly I would have been far happier if the game had juxtaposed those two fights around.

Once again, a problem in excecution. PDG easily had the potential to be just as epic as Egg Dragoon had the potential to be just as much a steaming pile of shit as PDG did. The fact that either of them exist, or the order they come in, that's not the issue - the problem is, quite simply, that it wasn't done right. It's not hard to see the problem with Dark Gaia - hell, just lose the QTEs and ludicrously slow approaching at the pre-bashing and you'd see a pretty big improvement already. The Wii's approach to making it a Punch Out clone wasn't a bad idea either.

Here's a question for you, then: if the final boss was Eggy and was just as awfully designed as Perfect Dark Gaia, would you still be complaining?

Edited December 13, 2009 by Blacklightning

[Octarine]

Hm. There were two distinct problems with the battle against Dark Gaia -it played rather poorly and the concept has been overdone in the series- but I wouldn't say that there's any correlation. Even if Eggman had been piloting a giant, Dark Gaia-powered steampunk Megazord, we'd still have probably gone through four different gameplay styles to beat him. There's no real connection.

Unleashed was really Eggman's chance to shine, though, and for most of the game that's exactly what he did. He built a gorgeous fleet, beat Super Sonic, fulfilled his dream of creating Eggmanland, provided an epic fight in the Egg Dragoon, and... uh, got Team Rocketed away before things really got interesting? One of these things is not like the others...

EDIT: Aaaand ninja'd, to an extent.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Octarine

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Here's a question for you, then: if the final boss was Eggy and was just as awfully designed as Perfect Dark Gaia, would you still be complaining?

I wouldn't be complaining that the last boss wasn't Eggman, that's for sure.

But I never particularly had issue with the mechanics of PGD, because I can button-mash QTEs like a coffee junkie who's misplaced his Ritalin. It was mostly the Go Go Power Rangers Megazord shtik that made me want to vomit with rage.

[AuroraRedwinters]

I think Eggman/Robotnik loses some of his credibility as the antagonist... or even the villain of the series when he really isn't anymore. He might be the instigator, but you really aren't fighting him so much as you are fighting something that he has unleashed haphazardly time and time again.

I don't mind the occasional game/storyline where Eggman/Robotnik let's loose some sort of mythical creature/evil entity/what have you. I thought Sonic Adventure with Perfect Chaos did a good job with that aspect. But I would also love a return to the mad genius that tried to take down his enemies and control the planet with his technological prowess, too.

My viewpoint is when I play a Sonic game, nine times out of ten I want that epic Sonic (and friends) vs. Eggman/Robotnik fight at the end with the kick ass music blasting from my speakers.

WRT Sonic Unleashed, I think SEGA did some things right. (I don't think hardly anyone would contest the opening cutscene was true eye candy and that it "felt" right) However, and maybe it's because I grew up with the "classic" Sonic, but it didn't feel like a true Sonic game to me. And I think that is my main issue with Unleashed, along with most of the Sonic games this decade.