First Knuckles Series Reviews drop

[Spagonia Bowl]

58 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

So, is the only bad thing that critics are saying about the Knuckles series is that Knuckles isn't in the show enough?  Is that it?

From the reviews I've read, that is the main issue with the show, along with the villains not being all that great.

Whilst I personally think it's best to wait until it drops on Friday, the fact that quite a decent number of critics have all said that Knuckles takes a "back seat" in his own show is a bit concerning. Like what others have said, I imagine this is probably a budget issue and Paramount isn't in the best state at the moment. But this does raise some questions regarding the future of the "Sonic Cinematic Universe" (SCU) and what Paramount and the team behind this and the movies priorities are. Will the third film have the same issue as this? What does this mean for potential future spin-offs? I'm sure Sonic Movie 3 will have a bigger budget than the Knuckles series, but will characters like Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Shadow get overshadowed by any human characters? This doesn't necessarily apply to Robotnik/Eggman, the Wachowski's, Agent Stone and Maria, but more so other cast members. We got the announcements of Krysten Ritter and a few others in unspecified roles and we've had no word on whether or not characters like Amy and/or Rouge will appear, which leads me to believe that the like of Ritter are playing new human characters. As someone who enjoyed the first two movies, I agree with the sentiment that the big focus on human characters is a drawback, and I'm someone who actually likes the idea of humans in the Sonic world! Is this just going to be a continuing issue with the third film? I can understand them not wanting to introduce Sonic characters straight away without any buildup/little character development, but fans AND the general public want to see characters from the games on the big screen! 

This also leads me onto my next point, that if the Knuckles series does have a heavier focus on Wade and the fans/general public really dislike the show, will this damage all the good will the team behind the movies have built up with the fanbase? Even though they're not masterpieces, the film series have been praised by fans and audiences alike and in a way, they helped rebuild Sonic's reputation, which was in a dire state come the late 2010s. As I said, they're not masterpieces, but they've definitely pleased many of us who were dreading the first movie when the initial first trailer dropped, only to be pleasantly surprised when they redesigned Sonic and the movie ended up being a fun little joyride, with the second film being a good step up! But with these reviews coming in for the Knuckles series, detailing Knuckles apparently being overshadowed by a character that not that many people really cared all that much about and the enthusiasm for this show dwindling with each passing day, it makes me wonder what the relationship between the fanbase and the creative team will be. Will it be a Pontac and Graff situation? Will this cause fans to be more worried/skeptical with the third film? Will they lose all trust in Jeff Fowler, Tim Miller, etc? Could this damage not only the movie series, but the franchise's reputation as a whole?  

I hope I don't come off as all doom and gloom, it's not my intention! It's just something that I've been feeling since reading these reviews. I'm not saying that the Knuckles series will definitely "ruin" the "SCU", nor am I trying to say that this all spells trouble for Movie 3, but I can't help but feel a little concerned for what's to come next. For all we know, I might be completely off with all these concerns I have. I have read in an interview with Adam Pally, who plays Wade, apparently he's not been contacted regarding appearing in Movie 3 and he's not listed in the cast, so this leads me to assume that he may not even be appearing in the film at all. Maybe Movie 3 does focus less on the humans and more on the game cast. Maybe we'll see characters like Amy and/or Rouge appear. Maybe the team will listen to all the discourse surrounding Knuckles and if it does get slated by the fans, they'll take note of all the criticisms and make sure improve in future projects. Hell, they did the same when the first trailer for the first movie dropped, even when we all thought they wouldn't. I guess all in all, it depends on how both Knuckles and Movie 3 turn out and if the they're both decent, then cool! But if they both disappoint, then the team at Paramount are gonna have to face the wrath of Sonic fans again!

 

FYI: Please do NOT go out and harass any of the crew members, actors, writers, directors, or producers who worked on this show! Even if you end up not liking it, these people worked hard on it and they don't need anyone throwing them abuse online! Especially don't send any abuse to Adam Pally! He's just doing his job portraying Wade and seems like a genuinely nice guy, so please don't harass him if you hate his character! We don't want another Last of Us: Part II situation! 

I'm not saying anyone on here will go out and do all this, but you never know if some "fans."

[The DOMinator]

1 hour ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

Shadow get overshadowed

Heh, unintentional pun.

1 hour ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

We got the announcements of Krysten Ritter and a few others in unspecified roles and we've had no word on whether or not characters like Amy and/or Rouge will appear, which leads me to believe that the like of Ritter are playing new human characters.

Unfortunately, in regards to Ritter specifically, she's already been "confirmed" by an industry insider, the same one who leaked her involvement in the first place, has since stated she'll be playing as a new human character named Captain Rockwell. As per his Twitter/X post: 

This already seems to be going in your presumed direction.

 

2 hours ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

will this damage all the good will the team behind the movies have built up with the fanbase? Even though they're not masterpieces, the film series have been praised by fans and audiences alike and in a way, they helped rebuild Sonic's reputation, which was in a dire state come the late 2010s.

2 hours ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

Could this damage not only the movie series, but the franchise's reputation as a whole?  

I don't think it'll be that dire. I mean, yeah, the movies have brought in more public interest (positive at that) in the franchise as a whole, but said franchise is made up of several elements.

2 hours ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

hope I don't come off as all doom and gloom, it's not my intention! It's just something that I've been feeling since reading these reviews. I'm not saying that the Knuckles series will definitely "ruin" the "SCU", nor am I trying to say that this all spells trouble for Movie 3, but I can't help but feel a little concerned for what's to come next.

No, your skepticism is understandable, especially when considering:

2 hours ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

Please do NOT go out and harass any of the crew members, actors, writers, directors, or producers who worked on this show! Even if you end up not liking it, these people worked hard on it and they don't need anyone throwing them abuse online! Especially don't send any abuse to Adam Pally! He's just doing his job portraying Wade and seems like a genuinely nice guy, so please don't harass him if you hate his character! We don't want another Last of Us: Part II situation! 

I'm not saying anyone on here will go out and do all this, but you never know if some "fans."

All in all, I don't think this'll (the show) be a base breaker for the movie subseries, and definitely not the franchise as a whole. It's going to be an eyeroller; a show you'll watch once and probably disregard after. Really, it's the third movie that the stakes are on. All we can do is hope for the best, as we're not in control...

2 hours ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

Maybe the team will listen to all the discourse surrounding Knuckles and if it does get slated by the fans, they'll take note of all the criticisms and make sure improve in future projects. Hell, they did the same when the first trailer for the first movie dropped, even when we all thought they wouldn't.

...well, not directly hands on anyways. But at least this proves that the team behind the films are good people, looking to make the best they can out of the franchise.

[Rabbitearsblog]

2 hours ago, Spagonia Bowl said:

From the reviews I've read, that is the main issue with the show, along with the villains not being all that great.

Whilst I personally think it's best to wait until it drops on Friday, the fact that quite a decent number of critics have all said that Knuckles takes a "back seat" in his own show is a bit concerning. Like what others have said, I imagine this is probably a budget issue and Paramount isn't in the best state at the moment. But this does raise some questions regarding the future of the "Sonic Cinematic Universe" (SCU) and what Paramount and the team behind this and the movies priorities are. Will the third film have the same issue as this? What does this mean for potential future spin-offs? I'm sure Sonic Movie 3 will have a bigger budget than the Knuckles series, but will characters like Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Shadow get overshadowed by any human characters? This doesn't necessarily apply to Robotnik/Eggman, the Wachowski's, Agent Stone and Maria, but more so other cast members. We got the announcements of Krysten Ritter and a few others in unspecified roles and we've had no word on whether or not characters like Amy and/or Rouge will appear, which leads me to believe that the like of Ritter are playing new human characters. As someone who enjoyed the first two movies, I agree with the sentiment that the big focus on human characters is a drawback, and I'm someone who actually likes the idea of humans in the Sonic world! Is this just going to be a continuing issue with the third film? I can understand them not wanting to introduce Sonic characters straight away without any buildup/little character development, but fans AND the general public want to see characters from the games on the big screen! 

This also leads me onto my next point, that if the Knuckles series does have a heavier focus on Wade and the fans/general public really dislike the show, will this damage all the good will the team behind the movies have built up with the fanbase? Even though they're not masterpieces, the film series have been praised by fans and audiences alike and in a way, they helped rebuild Sonic's reputation, which was in a dire state come the late 2010s. As I said, they're not masterpieces, but they've definitely pleased many of us who were dreading the first movie when the initial first trailer dropped, only to be pleasantly surprised when they redesigned Sonic and the movie ended up being a fun little joyride, with the second film being a good step up! But with these reviews coming in for the Knuckles series, detailing Knuckles apparently being overshadowed by a character that not that many people really cared all that much about and the enthusiasm for this show dwindling with each passing day, it makes me wonder what the relationship between the fanbase and the creative team will be. Will it be a Pontac and Graff situation? Will this cause fans to be more worried/skeptical with the third film? Will they lose all trust in Jeff Fowler, Tim Miller, etc? Could this damage not only the movie series, but the franchise's reputation as a whole?  

I hope I don't come off as all doom and gloom, it's not my intention! It's just something that I've been feeling since reading these reviews. I'm not saying that the Knuckles series will definitely "ruin" the "SCU", nor am I trying to say that this all spells trouble for Movie 3, but I can't help but feel a little concerned for what's to come next. For all we know, I might be completely off with all these concerns I have. I have read in an interview with Adam Pally, who plays Wade, apparently he's not been contacted regarding appearing in Movie 3 and he's not listed in the cast, so this leads me to assume that he may not even be appearing in the film at all. Maybe Movie 3 does focus less on the humans and more on the game cast. Maybe we'll see characters like Amy and/or Rouge appear. Maybe the team will listen to all the discourse surrounding Knuckles and if it does get slated by the fans, they'll take note of all the criticisms and make sure improve in future projects. Hell, they did the same when the first trailer for the first movie dropped, even when we all thought they wouldn't. I guess all in all, it depends on how both Knuckles and Movie 3 turn out and if the they're both decent, then cool! But if they both disappoint, then the team at Paramount are gonna have to face the wrath of Sonic fans again!

 

FYI: Please do NOT go out and harass any of the crew members, actors, writers, directors, or producers who worked on this show! Even if you end up not liking it, these people worked hard on it and they don't need anyone throwing them abuse online! Especially don't send any abuse to Adam Pally! He's just doing his job portraying Wade and seems like a genuinely nice guy, so please don't harass him if you hate his character! We don't want another Last of Us: Part II situation! 

I'm not saying anyone on here will go out and do all this, but you never know if some "fans."

Honestly, if this series turns out to be bad, I don't think it will hurt the movie franchise at all.  Like Sonic Prime, most fans will probably just watch this series and not talk about it much afterwards.  Also, if this series is more like just a fun side adventure that doesn't really tie into the third movie, then people might forget about this series afterwards and just pay attention to the third movie.  That's IF this series turns out to be bad.  If this series turns out to be good, then it would at least have the viewers show more interest in having more TV shows made about Sonic and his friends.

I do agree with you that the actors and the writers on this series should NOT be harassed in any way.  They are just doing their jobs and it's not fair to them that they get harassed just for working on a series that they are passionate about.  All in all, I do hope that this show turns out to be really good.

Also, I'm just going to wait until the general audience say something about this show, since there's not that many critics talking about this show to begin with.

[Spagonia Bowl]

8 hours ago, The DOMinator said:

Heh, unintentional pun.

I've only just now realized this! 

8 hours ago, The DOMinator said:

Unfortunately, in regards to Ritter specifically, she's already been "confirmed" by an industry insider, the same one who leaked her involvement in the first place, has since stated she'll be playing as a new human character named Captain Rockwell. As per his Twitter/X post: 

This already seems to be going in your presumed direction.

Ah! I completely forgot about this! Guess that confirms my suspicions.

8 hours ago, The DOMinator said:

I don't think it'll be that dire. I mean, yeah, the movies have brought in more public interest (positive at that) in the franchise as a whole, but said franchise is made up of several elements.

 

8 hours ago, The DOMinator said:

No, your skepticism is understandable, especially when considering:

 

8 hours ago, The DOMinator said:

All in all, I don't think this'll (the show) be a base breaker for the movie subseries, and definitely not the franchise as a whole. It's going to be an eyeroller; a show you'll watch once and probably disregard after. Really, it's the third movie that the stakes are on. All we can do is hope for the best, as we're not in control...

 

9 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I'm just going to wait until the general audience say something about this show

Yeah, I agree that all the stakes are in the third film. I'm certain that the team have put all their effort into it, probably more so than the Knuckles series, but all we have to do is wait. I guess what I was trying to convey were my concerns for the future of the movie series and how it may impact the franchise. Sonic is currently going through some sort of a 'renaissance' of sorts and I'd say the movies played a big part in that, so much so that it's impacted the games in a way. I think it was Morio Kishimoto, or someone at Sonic Team, who said in an interview that the movies were an 'inspiration', or something along the lines. I'm not saying we owe Sonic Frontiers' success all to the movies, but they definitely played a part in bringing back people's confidence in the franchise, not just with fans, but with the general public too. 

It's no secret that during both the 'Dark' and 'Meta' eras, the franchise was seen by the general public. I remember how much Sonic fans were mocked online during this time and it didn't help that some of the games coming out were not so good, cough Lost World cough Boom cough Forces cough, as well as the behavior of some 'fans' online. With the success of both the films and Frontiers, general audience's view of the franchise and grown more positive and I believe they played a part in the success of these properties and not just the fanbase's enthusiasm, although that definitely helped! The first two movies were surprisingly successful at the box office, with the second one being the highest grossing video game film for a while and Frontiers is the highest selling game in the franchise! If Knuckles' does have a lack of screen time in his own show, it's not just fans who will be disappointed, but also non-fans/average joes as well. Like the fans, they'll be wanting to watch the show for Knuckles and not so much for Wade and the rest of the human cast. If reviewers and fans take notice of the lack of Knuckles, the general audience watching certainly will! When Movie 3 comes out and it has a similar issue, then that could hurt the general audience's enthusiasm for it and it could even hurt the film's box office. Whilst fans will support any new Sonic media when it comes out, the same can't be said for the general audience and ultimately, it's them who decides how successful a movie is and said movie's success, or failure at the box office will determine what the studio will do with the IP next. 

If I were to make a comparison/analogy, I'd have to go with one of my other favorite franchises, Doctor Who. From 2005-13, the franchise was doing very well with the general public. This was during the 'Russell T. Davies' and the first half of the Steven Moffat' eras (aka when Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant and Matt Smith were playing the Doctor) and the show was very popular in the UK and was even growing a following overseas, especially in the US. But then during the latter half of the 'Moffat' era (when Peter Capaldi became the Doctor), the series was starting to fall out of the public zeitgeist and ratings were dwindling. This was because the it had gone "bad", but more so the general public wasn't vibing with the show as much. Hell, you could argue this was happening before Capaldi took over, specifically after David Tennant left. But when the 'Chris Chibnall' era came (when Jodie Whittaker took over as the Doctor), things really did change for the worse. Whilst it started off rather successful, ratings wise, as the era went on, viewing figures dropped and both fan and audience reception was, at best "divisive", at worst "probably the lowest point for the show". Whilst dedicated Doctor Who fans will still support the series and continue watching, even if the current era was pretty bad, the same can't be said for the general audience. The 'Chibnall' era just didn't take off with them and ratings had gotten so bad that the BBC weren't even sure if the show would be cancelled or not. In the end, Russell T. Davies came back to helm the show, with three specials releasing to celebrate the show's 60th anniversary and another for Christmas, with all four doing pretty well in the UK TV ratings and helping bring the franchise back into the public zeitgeist. 

Ultimately what I'm trying to say is that, despite the support from fans of an IP, it's really all down to how the general audience react to a new film or TV show. If they like it, then it'll probably be a success and give the studio confidence in making follow ups. If they don't like it and don't give it a watch, then that could put any future projects in the realm of uncertainty and there probably would be a lack of confidence from the studio going forward. Like I said, the fans will support the franchise when something new comes out, but the same can't be said for the general audience and it ultimately boils down to how successful it is with them. My biggest concern is more so if Movie 3 also has a lack of focus on the Sonic characters, such as Shadow, or if there is a large focus on the human cast, like the Knuckles series seems to have, then the general audience will be less interested in going to see it and it could cause the film to either underperform, or not generate enough hype and potentially result in them losing interest in the brand and if they're no longer enthusiastic to see any future movies/spin-offs, even if they do end up being decent, it could in how confident SEGA/Sonic Team will be with future games. As I've said quite a few times, the movie series helped bring the Sonic franchise back into the cultural zeitgeist, but I'm worried it could also contribute to it falling out of it again.

9 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

Honestly, if this series turns out to be bad, I don't think it will hurt the movie franchise at all.  Like Sonic Prime, most fans will probably just watch this series and not talk about it much afterwards.  Also, if this series is more like just a fun side adventure that doesn't really tie into the third movie, then people might forget about this series afterwards and just pay attention to the third movie.  That's IF this series turns out to be bad.  If this series turns out to be good, then it would at least have the viewers show more interest in having more TV shows made about Sonic and his friends.

Yeah, I hope the series does turn out to be good. From what I've read in some of the reviews, most of them haven't actually called it "bad", just that it has issues, with Knuckles' screen time being one of them. As I said in my previous post, I'm not trying to be negative, nor am I trying to say that the franchise will be "doomed" if this fails. I'm just a fan who wants the best for the Sonic franchise and want to see the games, movies and shows succeed. I just wanted to get all this off my chest and out out my concerns. I REALLY do want the movie series to continue being successful and I hope the Knuckles show does well enough for Paramount to have more confidence in producing more spin-offs. At the same time, I also hope they listen to any criticisms that fans, reviewers and the general audience have and make sure to take it all on and improve in the future.

If I'm gonna be honest, seeing all the excitement and enthusiasm fans had for this show slowly go away once the reviews dropped is quite disheartening. It was great when a lot of fans were anticipating it and speculating what it would be about and seeing quite a umber of fans losing interest and becoming disappointed regarding Knuckles' screen time did make me feel a bit down, especially after how well received the first two movies were. That's probably just me being sentimental and like I said before, I DO hope the show ends up being at least decent. 

10 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I do agree with you that the actors and the writers on this series should NOT be harassed in any way.  They are just doing their jobs and it's not fair to them that they get harassed just for working on a series that they are passionate about.

I really hope that we don't see this happen! I'm not saying that it will and I don't think anyone on here, or anywhere else will go out and just be abusive to all those who worked on the show. I also wanted to put it out there because I don't want what happened to Pontac and Graff happen to the creators of the Knuckles series, or Adam Pally!