What were the most controversial moments for you in the Sonic the Hedgehog Games?

[Rabbitearsblog]

What were some moments that happened in the Sonic the Hedgehog games do you think were the most controversial?  For me, it was the moment where Tails was cowering against Chaos in Sonic Forces.  This moment felt so left out of field for me because previously, Tails had fought against Chaos and wasn't afraid of him.  So, this moment definitely riled up a lot of Tails fans.

 

[Treacher]

For starters, this:

https://files.catbox.moe/sj74g1.mp4

Looked pretty surreal to see Sonic Studios seemingly ape GTA in what wouldn't look out of place as an April Fool's joke. Seeing him:

made me wonder if what I was seeing would actually be put in a Sonic game. (or spinoff rather) and if I was potentially stumbling on another game by accident or site owners were pulling pranks of their own online when previewing the game.

 

[Lytan]

Seconding Black Doom/Shadow's game. It's a guilty pleasure and I've had some genuine fun with it, but I don't like how it changed Shadow's SA2 backstory and added aliens seemingly just for the sake of "being cool".

Shadow joining GUN is another one.

Oh, and bringing back Classic Sonic. I love him in Generations, but that's where he should have stayed.

[Rabbitearsblog]

5 hours ago, Lytan said:

Seconding Black Doom/Shadow's game. It's a guilty pleasure and I've had some genuine fun with it, but I don't like how it changed Shadow's SA2 backstory and added aliens seemingly just for the sake of "being cool".

Shadow joining GUN is another one.

Oh, and bringing back Classic Sonic. I love him in Generations, but that's where he should have stayed.

I agree about Classic Sonic.  He was fine in Sonic Generations because there was a need for him in that storyline.  However, afterwards it seems like SEGA had no idea what to do with Classic Sonic and they just ending up shoving him into games that he had no business being in.

[MetalSkulkBane]

I'm gonna be original and say Sonic Colors. You can talk all you want about how 06 broke the fandom, but everyone agrees it wasn't good. Even apologists will say "The game was flawed."

Colors (especially story-wise) is when you really start seeing people with radically opposing views. I'm not as butt-hurt as I used too, but I still think the game's story wasn't good, even if Ian Flynn likes it.

I mean, that's what "controversial" means. When people have drastically different opinions, not just "Classic shouldn't return", which most people seem to agree on.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I'm gonna be original and say Sonic Colors. You can talk all you want about how 06 broke the fandom, but everyone agrees it wasn't good. Even apologists will say "The game was flawed."

Colors (especially story-wise) is when you really start seeing people with radically opposing views. I'm not as butt-hurt as I used too, but I still think the game's story wasn't good, even if Ian Flynn likes it.

I mean, that's what "controversial" means. When people have drastically different opinions, not just "Classic shouldn't return", which most people seem to agree on.

That's what I've been seeing with Sonic Colors as well.  I feel like Sonic Colors has become a divisive game because some people like the game for the gameplay, while other people hated the game for the bad storyline.

[Phoenix]

53 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

That's what I've been seeing with Sonic Colors as well.  I feel like Sonic Colors has become a divisive game because some people like the game for the gameplay, while other people hated the game for the bad storyline.

It reminds me of Fire Emblem. Some people swear by Three Houses and some people swear by Engage, and it depends entirely on where you fall in the gameplay/story camp.

I didn't like Colors, but the one where I've been the most out of step with the community is Generations. I'll take '06 over Generations any day of the week. At least in theory '06 can be made good (P06 proves that), but Generations will always have one of the worst stories of the modern era. And it introduced a concept that I'm still annoyed with; Classic Sonic as a different, mute character from Modern Sonic.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Phoenix
typo

[Lytan]

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I'm gonna be original and say Sonic Colors. You can talk all you want about how 06 broke the fandom, but everyone agrees it wasn't good. Even apologists will say "The game was flawed."

Colors (especially story-wise) is when you really start seeing people with radically opposing views. I'm not as butt-hurt as I used too, but I still think the game's story wasn't good, even if Ian Flynn likes it.

With you on that, Colours' story was bad. I like the DS version better for the extra character stuff alone. I think the success of Colours back in it's day is part the reason the 2010s writing team took so long to go.

54 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

I didn't like Colors, but the one where I've been the most out of step with the community is Generations. I'll take '06 over Generations any day of the week. At least in theory '06 can be made good (P06 proves that), but Generations will always have one of the worst stories of the modern era. And it introduced a concept that I'm still annoyed with; Classic Sonic as a different, mute character from Modern Sonic.

Generations is one I don't know how I feel about. I find it fun as a quick journey through Sonic's history, and while the story is basic I think it's fine for what it's trying to do. I agree about Classic though. It's such a weird choice not to give him dialogue when it's not like he was ever designed as a mute character.

[Lytan]

Okay, no idea if this is "controversial" or not, but I just finished playing Frontiers for the third time so here goes: I'm not a fan of Eggman/Robotnik's modern characterisation. That's not to say that I don't like the additional lore from Frontiers - the stuff with his jealousy of Maria, and his father-daughter relationship with Sage are both interesting developments that make him a more 3D character. But his relationship with Sage didn't get the time needed to really make me care, and besides, it seems a bit odd to me that he'd consider her a daughter so quickly when he's not usually that soft, even towards his own creations (e.g, the E-series in SA1). I guess I'm fed up of him teaming up with Sonic so frequently these days. He seems kind of soft and a bit useless at being the villian. Maybe it's because I grew up with the games/media that depict Robotnik more as an industrialist destroying the environment, but hey, that's just how I prefer it. I like when he's a real force to be reckoned, rather than solely comedic and a bit useless like he's been in almost every recent game (Forces being the notable exception, and even there the writing was awful).

[Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Lytan said:

Generations is one I don't know how I feel about. I find it fun as a quick journey through Sonic's history, and while the story is basic I think it's fine for what it's trying to do. I agree about Classic though. It's such a weird choice not to give him dialogue when it's not like he was ever designed as a mute character.

I think that if the whole concept of Classic Sonic had stayed confined to Generations, it wouldn't have bothered me as much. Then I could see it as a meta celebration of the history of the series, equivent to Sonic in Smash. But then he appears in Forces again, and we have to take him as an actual character with a place in the lore. So, what, Sonic used to be small and mute, then grows up a little bit for CD, and then learns to talk in Adventure? It's just nonsense.

1 hour ago, Lytan said:

Okay, no idea if this is "controversial" or not, but I just finished playing Frontiers for the third time so here goes: I'm not a fan of Eggman/Robotnik's modern characterisation. That's not to say that I don't like the additional lore from Frontiers - the stuff with his jealousy of Maria, and his father-daughter relationship with Sage are both interesting developments that make him a more 3D character. But his relationship with Sage didn't get the time needed to really make me care, and besides, it seems a bit odd to me that he'd consider her a daughter so quickly when he's not usually that soft, even towards his own creations (e.g, the E-series in SA1). I guess I'm fed up of him teaming up with Sonic so frequently these days. He seems kind of soft and a bit useless at being the villian. Maybe it's because I grew up with the games/media that depict Robotnik more as an industrialist destroying the environment, but hey, that's just how I prefer it. I like when he's a real force to be reckoned, rather than solely comedic and a bit useless like he's been in almost every recent game (Forces being the notable exception, and even there the writing was awful).

 

I agree on principle, but I'm a sucker for a hero-villain team up against the Big Bag. I think the IDW comics do it best. Eggman is *the* bad guy most of the time. And not a silly one either; he does some terrifying psychopathic shit. He only needs to team up with Sonic when his creations turns against him, which is an in-universe character flaw, and even then, the team knows he's going to backstab them the very second he can.

 

[Rabbitearsblog]

39 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

I think that if the whole concept of Classic Sonic had stayed confined to Generations, it wouldn't have bothered me as much. Then I could see it as a meta celebration of the history of the series, equivent to Sonic in Smash. But then he appears in Forces again, and we have to take him as an actual character with a place in the lore. So, what, Sonic used to be small and mute, then grows up a little bit for CD, and then learns to talk in Adventure? It's just nonsense.

 

I agree on principle, but I'm a sucker for a hero-villain team up against the Big Bag. I think the IDW comics do it best. Eggman is *the* bad guy most of the time. And not a silly one either; he does some terrifying psychopathic shit. He only needs to team up with Sonic when his creations turns against him, which is an in-universe character flaw, and even then, the team knows he's going to backstab them the very second he can.

 

I really like how the IDW comics made Eggman into an actually threatening villain.  There were times that I felt that Eggman wasn't serious enough to be a villain in the games (well, except for the Adventure Era where he was a legitimate threat).

[Lytan]

I guess all this is a sign I should read the comics, then! I admit I haven't looked into them much but it sounds like I might enjoy them. Thanks!

[batson]

I think one of the most controversial moments within the Sonic fanbase was when it was announced that the original voice cast would be replaced by the 4kids voice cast. Fans were understandably PISSED when this happened. For those who weren't around in those days, I think it's difficult to grasp just how out of the blue and insane this felt. Nowadays we're used to the idea that the entire voice cast can change since it's something that has already happened, but back then it was like wtf is wrong with Sega? Sonic X was just a spin off, localized by the most hated localizers of anime in the US by the way, and the idea that the vocal interpretations of the characters featured in that spin off would replace the original voices just felt so out of nowhere, stupid and disapointing to so many people.

Personally I'm still kinda miffed that once the voice cast changed once again in 2010 they allowed many of the new actors to essentially do an impression of the former 4kids voice (with expections of course; the most notable one being Sonic himself, who no longer sounds anything like Jason Griffiths version), meaning that even to this day many of the characters essentially still have the same type of voice asigned by 4kids but provided by a new actor. Obviously this is only a problem when the voice 4kids voice was bad, but to me at least there of plenty of examples of that being the case. Like how Knuckles isn't allowed to go back to the deeper, more mature voice he had in the games prior to the 4kids version took over. And don't even get me started on Vector. His voice in Sonic Heroes was great, but then 4kids gave him this super annoying cartoony bullshit voice that he's still stuck with to this day.

[Red Hot Jack]

On 9/25/2023 at 1:39 AM, Lytan said:

Okay, no idea if this is "controversial" or not, but I just finished playing Frontiers for the third time so here goes: I'm not a fan of Eggman/Robotnik's modern characterisation. That's not to say that I don't like the additional lore from Frontiers - the stuff with his jealousy of Maria, and his father-daughter relationship with Sage are both interesting developments that make him a more 3D character. But his relationship with Sage didn't get the time needed to really make me care, and besides, it seems a bit odd to me that he'd consider her a daughter so quickly when he's not usually that soft, even towards his own creations (e.g, the E-series in SA1). I guess I'm fed up of him teaming up with Sonic so frequently these days. He seems kind of soft and a bit useless at being the villian. Maybe it's because I grew up with the games/media that depict Robotnik more as an industrialist destroying the environment, but hey, that's just how I prefer it. I like when he's a real force to be reckoned, rather than solely comedic and a bit useless like he's been in almost every recent game (Forces being the notable exception, and even there the writing was awful).

To be fair, in Frontiers he tried to take and use the Ancients technology for himself, and failed, in fact my problems with Eggman in the game is he's not a boss or an antagonist, but still, like in the cojmics, he doesn't want to team up with Sonic, Sage convinces him because she's rational, even though Eggman teams up with Sonic often, so it's kinda weird for him to not want that and Sage needs to change his mind, but still, like in the comics, Eggman is a piece of shit, a psycho who does terrible things and even when he teams up with Sonic, he's still a piece of shit.

But also in the games themselves, Eggman does awful stuff, in Colors he kidnaps little cute aliens to use their energy to basically pypnotize the people on Earth, in Unleashed he breaks the world to pieces and wants to use the Dark energy from inside the planet, in Generations he kidnaps all of Sonic's friends on his birthday and messes up time and space for revenge. He does pretty wild stuff in the games as well, it's just so downplayed because his appearance is focused on his "buffoon" side, and not on the threatening one even though his plans are big.

As for Colors' story I actually found it basic, boring with weird dialogue but nothing divisive. 06 had the weird kiss which was universally THE most controversial thing in the franchise, but I don't want to say that personally because it's too clichè.

I found Generations story worse than Colors, the latter has more cutscenes, Generations is weird because there was potential, more than Colors at least, and has like 12 short main cutscenes, what happened there? It's a big game for the franchise and you barely do anything with the story.

Lost World Tails being a bitch and jealous of Sonic teaming up with Eggman and ignoring him was the weirdest thing Pontac and Graff wrote, also that strange cutscene where Eggman swears he's gonna kill the Zeti, LOL, the entire Lost World plot is quite controversial, so that's what I'm gonna pick.

Tails being a coward in Forces is also a pretty controversial moment generally, but to be fair he was depressed about "Sonic being dead" in that moment, Tails also says "please help me" in Unleashed, against a mini boss and a horde of enemies, but no one ever mentions Unleashed...

[Rabbitearsblog]

22 minutes ago, Red Hot Jack said:

To be fair, in Frontiers he tried to take and use the Ancients technology for himself, and failed, in fact my problems with Eggman in the game is he's not a boss or an antagonist, but still, like in the cojmics, he doesn't want to team up with Sonic, Sage convinces him because she's rational, even though Eggman teams up with Sonic often, so it's kinda weird for him to not want that and Sage needs to change his mind, but still, like in the comics, Eggman is a piece of shit, a psycho who does terrible things and even when he teams up with Sonic, he's still a piece of shit.

But also in the games themselves, Eggman does awful stuff, in Colors he kidnaps little cute aliens to use their energy to basically pypnotize the people on Earth, in Unleashed he breaks the world to pieces and wants to use the Dark energy from inside the planet, in Generations he kidnaps all of Sonic's friends on his birthday and messes up time and space for revenge. He does pretty wild stuff in the games as well, it's just so downplayed because his appearance is focused on his "buffoon" side, and not on the threatening one even though his plans are big.

As for Colors' story I actually found it basic, boring with weird dialogue but nothing divisive. 06 had the weird kiss which was universally THE most controversial thing in the franchise, but I don't want to say that personally because it's too clichè.

I found Generations story worse than Colors, the latter has more cutscenes, Generations is weird because there was potential, more than Colors at least, and has like 12 short main cutscenes, what happened there? It's a big game for the franchise and you barely do anything with the story.

Lost World Tails being a bitch and jealous of Sonic teaming up with Eggman and ignoring him was the weirdest thing Pontac and Graff wrote, also that strange cutscene where Eggman swears he's gonna kill the Zeti, LOL, the entire Lost World plot is quite controversial, so that's what I'm gonna pick.

Tails being a coward in Forces is also a pretty controversial moment generally, but to be fair he was depressed about "Sonic being dead" in that moment, Tails also says "please help me" in Unleashed, against a mini boss and a horde of enemies, but no one ever mentions Unleashed...

I agree that Sonic Lost World had a pretty controversial plot, especially with how Tails was being portrayed in that game and of course, the introduction of the Deadly Six.

[Ghelatlishol]

It was introducing the concept of handguns in Shadow the Hedgehog for me. Seemed very out of place for a game known for lightheartedness. But there was that scene in SA2 where Eggman holds Amy at gunpoint and that kind of disturbed me too. Granted, I was about 9 years old at the time.

Cartoonish weapons like lazers and bombs shaped like figurines, and whatever robots shoot can be more fun in their nature. A handgun is a handgun and clearly has one purpose. 

I have nothing against guns as a red blooded American, but it sure felt off seeing them in Sonic games.

[Rabbitearsblog]

3 hours ago, Ghelatlishol said:

It was introducing the concept of handguns in Shadow the Hedgehog for me. Seemed very out of place for a game known for lightheartedness. But there was that scene in SA2 where Eggman holds Amy at gunpoint and that kind of disturbed me too. Granted, I was about 9 years old at the time.

Cartoonish weapons like lazers and bombs shaped like figurines, and whatever robots shoot can be more fun in their nature. A handgun is a handgun and clearly has one purpose. 

I have nothing against guns as a red blooded American, but it sure felt off seeing them in Sonic games.

Yeah, I will admit that the whole game of Shadow the Hedgehog felt like SEGA was trying to make the Sonic franchise as edgy as say Spec Ops or something like that.  However, the fact that the Sonic characters used language and used realistic guns felt a bit forced to me.  It's like they forgot what franchise they were trying to do all that with.

[Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

Yeah, I will admit that the whole game of Shadow the Hedgehog felt like SEGA was trying to make the Sonic franchise as edgy as say Spec Ops or something like that.  However, the fact that the Sonic characters used language and used realistic guns felt a bit forced to me.  It's like they forgot what franchise they were trying to do all that with.

It also didn't do anything for the character. Shadow's arc was over in 2. Heroes does good work and introduces the wrinkle of whether he's a copy or not, and has a pretty satisfying answer; it doesn't matter either way, he's still Shadow.

Shadow the Hedgehog doesn't add anything. He's back to wondering who he is, which we established doesn't ultimately matter. And his conclusion is that he's a hero who will defend the Earth for Maria's memory. The same conclusion of SA2.

But nothing happened. Nothing as added.

[Rabbitearsblog]

56 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

It also didn't do anything for the character. Shadow's arc was over in 2. Heroes does good work and introduces the wrinkle of whether he's a copy or not, and has a pretty satisfying answer; it doesn't matter either way, he's still Shadow.

Shadow the Hedgehog doesn't add anything. He's back to wondering who he is, which we established doesn't ultimately matter. And his conclusion is that he's a hero who will defend the Earth for Maria's memory. The same conclusion of SA2.

But nothing happened. Nothing as added.

I agree.  It felt like the Shadow the Hedgehog game wasn't really needed in that regard since they already wrapped up Shadow's character arc in previous games.  They should have told a different story with Shadow if they really wanted to make a Shadow the Hedgehog game.