Metroid 5 Dread - 16 Years IN The Making!

[PublicEnemy1]

2 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

It's a Metroid, so I'm sure it's a good 2-10 hours depending on your skill level, but I'm kinda weary of this sentiment just because it potentially precludes tightly crafted single-player experiences.

True, but I dunno, in a world where Hollow Knight exists for 20 bucks for much longer while also being a tightly crafted single player experience just shows how the genre evolved since Metroid has been dormant. Sure, I think 2-10 hours might've been good enough back in the GBA days, but I also think that for full retail price, I would hope that there'd be a little more meat on them bones.

[shdowhunt60]

18 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

True, but I dunno, in a world where Hollow Knight exists for 20 bucks for much longer while also being a tightly crafted single player experience just shows how the genre evolved since Metroid has been dormant. Sure, I think 2-10 hours might've been good enough back in the GBA days, but I also think that for full retail price, I would hope that there'd be a little more meat on them bones.

I'm not sure I follow. That's like saying there's no reason to buy Doom for $60 when a game like Dusk exists and its $20. 

[PublicEnemy1]

2 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

I'm not sure I follow. That's like saying there's no reason to buy Doom for $60 when a game like Dusk exists and its $20. 

Since when did I say Dread isn't worth buying? I just hope that it has a decent length. Also, that comparison is flawed, because I think Doom DOES have enough content to justify the price.

[Salamander]

The other factor to consider is the possibility that Hollow Knight is, in fact, underpriced.  It's going to be interesting to see what price tag they put on Silksong.

(Edit: Though of course really the whole song and dance is just smoke and mirrors.  There's no objective "right price" for any game other than what the maximum number of people are willing to pay.  That's why Metroid Dread will be expensive and Hollow Knight was not - though again, very interested to see what we're charged for Silksong.)

[Wraith]

There are a lot of valid concerns with Metroid Dread's price, but yeah Hollow Knight is the most criminally underpriced game I've ever bought for the content on offer and the quality of said content.

I'm willing to pay premium for a new Metroid game, but if other people don't want to that's understandable. Metroid Dread doesn't look to be significantly better than it's indie counterparts. It's Nintendo's fault for dragging their feet on sticking their toes back in the genre.

[KHCast]

Wonder what version of Ridley we’ll be seeing this time around

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

3 hours ago, KHCast said:

Wonder what version of Ridley we’ll be seeing this time around

Probably the original Ridley brought back to life, given the fate of the clone.

Or who knows? Maybe we'll see them both come back to double team Samus. 

[Salamander]

I admit to not being hugely well-versed in Metroid lore, but from what I gather, Ridley has gradually been attributed such extensive regenerative properties that resurrecting or cloning him is probably no big deal at this point.  With that said, it still feels like poor form to have him show up out of nowhere like Ganon, so maybe, if he's in, it could be as a completed version of his mecha doppelganger from Zero Mission?

[NegaMix]

5 minutes ago, Salamander said:

I admit to not being hugely well-versed in Metroid lore, but from what I gather, Ridley has gradually been attributed such extensive regenerative properties that resurrecting or cloning him is probably no big deal at this point.  With that said, it still feels like poor form to have him show up out of nowhere like Ganon, so maybe, if he's in, it could be as a completed version of his mecha doppelganger from Zero Mission?

This is what I'm thinking, tbh. If they do bring Ridley back in, having him appear in a fully robotic from could work considering all the other mechanical menaces like EMMI around too.

That said, I'd personally prefer for Ridley to not suddenly show up for once, or at the very least not be shoehorned in for no good reason.

[Iko]

On 6/20/2021 at 2:36 AM, PublicEnemy1 said:

True, but I dunno, in a world where Hollow Knight exists for 20 bucks for much longer while also being a tightly crafted single player experience just shows how the genre evolved since Metroid has been dormant. Sure, I think 2-10 hours might've been good enough back in the GBA days, but I also think that for full retail price, I would hope that there'd be a little more meat on them bones.

If you have enough skills and knownledge, you can finish Hollow Knight in less than 5 hours too. They added a lot of content with DLCs to extend the game's lenght, but the original base game alone was not much different than your average old 2D Metroid game in terms of lenght.

I've more than 200 hours in Hollow Knight, finished it multiple times, got all the achievements and all, I know the game well enough.

If the game is well made, I don't care if it's as long as the GBA games, it would still be fine for me; if a game is good but short, and is deep enough so that each new playthrough is still engaging, I may still replay the game in the future: for me replay value is the best value.

People complained about the price of Link's Awakening too, there's this idea that a 2D game has lower value than a 3D game it seems (I disagree with this). I mean, I don't like how the standard price of the games is getting up with each new generation, but at the same time I don't think that Metroid Dread or Link's Awakening should cost less than other games just because they're 2D games.

[mayday2592]

58 minutes ago, Iko said:

 

People complained about the price of Link's Awakening too, there's this idea that a 2D game has lower value than a 3D game it seems (I disagree with this). I mean, I don't like how the standard price of the games is getting up with each new generation, but at the same time I don't think that Metroid Dread or Link's Awakening should cost less than other games just because they're 2D games.

IIRC the argument about Link's Awakening being full price wasn't due to it being 2D, but due to the fact it was a remake of 20 year GB game. Especially when every other remake on the market went for 40 or less.

[shdowhunt60]

MercurySteam's attention to detail is highly, highly impressive. I can't think of many 2d games that put into this sort of thought into how a character should react to running into a wall.

[Sonictrainer]

Some new info from Metroid Dread Report Vol. 2: Researching the E.M.M.I.

Quote

What are E.M.M.I.?

An Extraplanetary Multiform Mobile Identifier—or E.M.M.I.—is a highly agile research robot equipped with the ability to extract DNA. The Galactic Federation dispatched several to the uncharted planet ZDR in order to research the X parasite, a lifeform with mimicking capabilities. But, somehow, the E.M.M.I. on ZDR went dark.

On her subsequent mission to investigate what’s happening on ZDR, Samus encounters the E.M.M.I.—only to find their behaviors and intent seemingly corrupted.

~Transmission from the dev team~

The E.M.M.I. are robots that belong to the Galactic Federation, so they are not ordinarily an enemy of Samus. However, the E.M.M.I. that appear before Samus identify her as a target and relentlessly chase after her. Our belief is that the E.M.M.I.’s lack of emotion and overwhelming power will combine to create a threat so great that they strike terror in the hearts of players.

 

What happens if Samus is caught?

E.M.M.I. roam freely within their zone. Depending on what their sensors are picking up, they are programmed to take one of three courses of actions, indicated by the color of their light.

• Patrol Mode (blue light): Roaming the area and has not yet detected Samus.
• Search Mode (yellow light): Investigating a suspicious sound.
• Pursuit Mode (red light): Pursuing its locked-on target at high speed.

When Samus is caught by the E.M.M.I., it’s almost certainly the end for her. Be very careful to avoid detection as you explore zones where E.M.M.I. are active.

~Transmission from the dev team~
If caught by the E.M.M.I., you may still have a chance to escape—however slim it may be! Strike with a well-timed Melee Counter the instant the E.M.M.I. opens itself up to attack. However, this window of opportunity has such narrow timing of success you may consider it nearly impossible to land a counter—so much so that you may want to avoid this situation at all costs.

However, there’s always a nearby checkpoint to restart from, which should be helpful if something goes sideways and Samus is captured.

 

E.M.M.I. Zone Doors
The E.M.M.I. are confined to roam only within designated E.M.M.I. Zones. These zones are separated from the rest of the world by E.M.M.I. Zone Doors—and only Samus can freely move through them.

When the E.M.M.I. visually identifies Samus and begins its heated pursuit, the E.M.M.I. Zone Doors lock down. To get them back open, you must shake the E.M.M.I. off your trail.

~Transmission from the dev team~
The Zones where you must contend with the E.M.M.I. threat are limited. It’s otherwise too stressful to have this kind of sustained tension!

When you enter an E.M.M.I. Zone, your map registers the layout of the Zone and the locations of the Zone Doors, which is helpful for making important decisions around where to go. Just remember: stay calm and check the map to get your bearings when you enter.

Quote

A new ability: Phantom Cloak
Phantom Cloak is one of Samus’ new Aeion Abilities, using optical camouflage to render her invisible. While this ability is active, Samus can move without causing any sound and she will go undetected by the E.M.M.I.’s optical sensor.

Samus can activate this ability by consuming a special type of energy called Aeion. However, if Samus walks or otherwise engages while the ability is active, she will more quickly burn through Aeion. If all of her Aeion is depleted, Samus may continue using Phantom Cloak at the cost of her Energy. Manage these resources carefully.

~Transmission from the dev team~
By using Phantom Cloak, you can not only prevent the E.M.M.I. from detecting Samus, but also walk through doors that close when detecting humans.
You’ll find this ability is useful against all enemies—not just the E.M.M.I.—so you may want to consider using it to bypass others when you’re low on Energy.

 

[Wraith]

 

[PublicEnemy1]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

 

Spoiler

KRAID MOTHERFUCKA

 

[Salamander]

The paradox of fandom, when you're looking forward to a game so much that you don't watch the trailers.

[Soniman]

Looking like a slam dunk for Samus' big return. Really hyped to play it this Friday.

[Sonictrainer]

Spoiler

I didn't know you can Ball Spark in this game. (basically save up a Shinespark and then use it as in Morph Ball Form)

 

[Sonicka]

Been on a bit of a Metroidvania binge again recently - Ori 2, then a recent replay of Super Metroid led me to going back to finish (and ultimately loving) Axiom Verge... which then lead me to remember that I owned Samus Returns on 3DS (I know... I know... but it just got shelved and misplaced on the back-burner in my library of games). 

So I decided to start again and play that one in anticipation for Metroid Dread, and I'm utterly adoring Returns... however, Dread turned up today in the post and I couldn't resist giving it a quick go.

...which then turned into 2 Hours. My God this game is incredible. The minimalistic art style just WORKS for the atmosphere and the bump up to 60FPS does wonders for the pacing of the action, Samus has never felt better to control in 2D. Also, Nintendo were not kidding around when they said the E.M.M.I were terrifying.

But no... Samus Returns, I have to complete you first before I properly dive into Dread. I know in terms of the storyline it really doesn't matter as they are a few chapters apart canonically - but as it's by the same dev it's a mind niggle that I have to finish their first game first. 

[Salamander]

I know the feeling; I have games I need to work on before I can get to Dread, too, but the positive impressions of the latter certainly aren't making the wait any easier.  It's exciting to hear just how much people are enjoying it, though!  Nice to know I have that ahead of me.

[Wraith]

I owed this game a love letter  but I needed to stop playing it first...It's only a 9 hour game but I've already done 2 runs and am working on a third.

Right now my feeling is that this is the best Metroid game, but I need to go back to Super to be sure.

It beats out Zero Mission on movement. Nintendo games generally feel pretty good to move around in but this feels like another level of care and polish. I dont even know what they did to shinesparks but they feel SO. FUCKING. GOOD in this game, from activating the speedbooster by clicking the stick to the animation and sound when you do one. Good thing too because there are shinespark puzzles fucking everywhere in this.

It implements story better than Fusion/Other M without sacrificing Samus's character or killing the pacing. Samus's characterization in this game is so fun. I feel like I've got a better grasp on who she is than ever and they did it with only 3 voice lines. Some of the cinematic flair from other M is here too, but without going so overboard that they take control away from the player. Cutscenes and QTE finishers are present but they're pretty fun to watch and they're spread out enough that it's a treat when they show up. The story itself is...interesting? I don't think some scenes are going to hit that well without the lead in of the other games, but it pushes the Metroid lore forward when it would have been really easy to just run in place again.
 

Spoiler

The titular monsters don't appear and neither does Ridley, which is way more restraint than I was expecting even in the ideal scenario where the game was perfect. Samus is fighting new enemies this time, and they're so fun that they fill the void nicely. Raven Beak and the chozo soldiers might be some of my favorite enemies in the series to fight, and the plot twist makes the final confrontation extra impactful.

The new mechanics from Samus Returns, the parry and Aeon, are better utilized here. I still think Parry is a bit too strong, but there are less enemies that can be blown away with it so that it feels more like an option and less like the option. The enemy design in general is just so so fucking good in this game compared to SR. Some charge into attack you the instant you're on screen like SR, but others are more passive and fire patterns of projectiles. The most fun rooms in this game are when they find a good way to mix the different types together.

Some bosses still require pretty strict parry timing, and I'm sure that will rub some people the wrong way because it's not a skill Metroid normally asks of the player, but as an action game addict I was having the time of my life lol. The only thing I don't like about the parry is that the resources you get back from it seem too generous. Bosses might as well have reset your health in each phase sometimes.

Aeon is now more of a cooldown meter for skills that reasonably require a cooldown meter and not yet another resource to manage. The Aeon abilities are cool little niche tools this time that don't steal the show. They held back on the scanner so some of that relief that comes with finding a map room can still happen, but it's still in the game because fuck doing 100% without it honestly. The air dash is up there with my favorite Metroid tools ever for how it ups the pacing of everything from movement to combat. The cloak is the one I've seen get the most critique for only being useful in niche situation, but I don't mind if Metroid has some tools like that. It's also saved me from an Emmi many times. You just have to know to deploy it before you're already cornered. Deploy it with an escape route in mind and start heading toward it while the Emmi is confused.

Speaking of the Emmi...I was a bit concerned about these guys pre launch. I like Nintendo's tendency to add a gimmick to shake things up with each installment, but I didn't want it to be so overbearing that it made the game linear or ate into a the pacing too much, but look, they nailed this shit. This is basically another normal Metroid game with horror-tinged movement based challenges, and the new movement system being so smooth pairs with the excellent level design to make Emmi rooms really fun. They all have a unique quirk to keep in mind as you run too, like the way the yellow one can gain up on Samus on straight paths.  All that tension pays off so well when you get to blow their heads off. I was actually a little bummed out by the time I killed them all.

Fuck. Shit. There's a lot to this game. I didn't even talk about the map yet.

Let me acknowledge that it seems waaaay too fucking linear at first, but it's more like a funnel. The right way to go is strongly telegraphed, but it's ultimately just a suggestion. You have more freedom in how to progress the story than in Fusion or Other M for sure. Sequence breaks seem...easier this time, too? I normally don't do it but I found getting close to the end without the space jump to be reasonable They're not just back, but MS lowered the skill floor a bit is to get more people to think about Metroid in THAT way and that excites me.

I really enjoyed 100%ing this game too. I found the amount of shinespark puzzles kind of intimidating but by the end of it they represented some of the sharpest design in the game for me. Thinking about how to build, store and carry your charge across multiple rooms to get some items really makes you appreciate just how sharp these level designers are. I've seen some people down on the continued usage of missile tanks and e tanks as reward but for me, it's not about the shiny bobble at the end of the tunnel. Figuring out how to get to them is the fun part, and if that's what you're here for there's plenty of extra content to discover.

I want to go back to playing now so I'll just say this game is amazing. Easily up there with BOTW as my favorite game on the Switch. It doesn't have the high highs of that game, but it's in another world in terms of balance and polish so it doesn't sink quite as low either. I liked Samus Returns, but I never imagined Mercury Steam improve THIS much in four years.

[NegaMix]

44 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Spoiler

The titular monsters don't appear

Spoiler

Sure they do. You're playing as the last one.

[Sonicka]

7 hours ago, Salamander said:

I know the feeling; I have games I need to work on before I can get to Dread, too, but the positive impressions of the latter certainly aren't making the wait any easier.  It's exciting to hear just how much people are enjoying it, though!  Nice to know I have that ahead of me.

The priority of my back catalogue tends to shift drastically every so often (usually in genre) which helps with keeping me invested in playing titles... but I didn't expect Dread to sneak up on me like this when I got the Metroidvania itch... honestly I was ready to probably be playing this in a year or so. 

My original plan was to replay Zero Mission THEN get on Samus Returns, Replay Super Metroid, and then replay Fusion... but in the end I had so many other new games that I could spend my time with (and I know these Metroid titles already) and with the 3DS Metroid II Remake being the only one I hadn't played in the series... it just lead me to going the rout I did. 

I will say though, that despite the large text exposition dump at the beginning (for Fusion in particular) it might be a touch harder for newer players in the series to fully comprehend the lore going into this if they are completely green to it. That's not to say you have to have played previous entires before this game... but it helps. The fact that Nintendo never openly market or number their mainline Metroid game titles as I, II, III, IV, V  (except within the game itself) has always been an interesting strategy to not put off new buyers.

But yeah, as good as Samus Returns is... well, going back to it after playing some of Dread is HARD! Mercury Steam really built on and improved the formula to a tee between both titles. My biggest hurdle is that holding the 3DS XL for long periods of time to play an action game like this which requires constant use of the shoulder buttons... it really gives me massive hand cramps. This is alleviated in Dread due to the shape of the Switch in handheld mode... or just play docked using a Pro Controller which really is the ideal. 

[Blue Blood]

I really, really dislike the the shinespark (or whatever it's called). Figuring out where to dash and build a charge is nice, but actually executing the move is confusing AF. I dunno, it often feels like this game's control scheme is demanding a level of dexterity that's not only beyond me but is also a bit prohibitive in general. With regards to the shinespark move specifically, it's really unclear when you can and can't execute the move. Why is it mapped to the same button as jump? 

[Wraith]

15 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I really, really dislike the the shinespark (or whatever it's called). Figuring out where to dash and build a charge is nice, but actually executing the move is confusing AF. I dunno, it often feels like this game's control scheme is demanding a level of dexterity that's not only beyond me but is also a bit prohibitive in general. With regards to the shinespark move specifically, it's really unclear when you can and can't execute the move. Why is it mapped to the same button as jump? 

You can execute the move by pressing the jump button without moving the stick. If you input a spin jump it won't come out. It seems unintuitive at first but spin jumping to reposition yourself and then inputting a normal jump gives you a surprising amount of control over when and where it comes out. Once the "windup" animation starts you can just point the stick in any direction and Samus will shoot that way.

One thing that helped me was tapping the L button to snap Samus out of the spinning state and then pressing jump.