Characters that never grew on you (Games only)

[MadmanRB]

14 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I thought we got over this age of scapegoating...

Well I'm not exactly wrong after all Shadow the Hedgehog the video game is considered by many to be the first of the Dark Age Sonic games. But I will be a little fair and also say maybe Sonic Heroes can qualify for that too.

[dbzfan7]

Gonna have to be on the Orbot and Cubot pick. They're honestly the worst Eggman sidekicks. I don't think they're personality or whatever is that bad....well maybe Cubot. It's just they have no reason to exist. They honestly drag Eggman down, more than be of any use to him. All they do is make Eggman look bad most of the time. If they at least piloted some of Eggman's inventions or showed some competency, they might be passable. But they basically exist for Eggman to talk to someone....and that's it. I honestly enjoyed Infinite and Eggman more than Orbot/Cubot and Eggman, and I don't think Infinite is good, but more believable as a sidekick to Eggman.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, MadmanRB said:

Well I'm not exactly wrong after all Shadow the Hedgehog the video game is considered by many to be the first of the Dark Age Sonic games. But I will be a little fair and also say maybe Sonic Heroes can qualify for that too.

Yes, you actually are wrong, because the fault of that lies in the people responsible for the dumb decisions as opposed to the character you’re blaming that they translated said decisions on.

Note: that’s not the same saying you can’t dislike a character, but scapegoating them for something not in their control speaks for itself—you know full and well that Shadow wasn’t the only character part of that dark age (nevermind the semi-second Dark Age we’re currently in that he has even less involvement in).

[Skull Leader]

Tikal, despite her being nice, is one of those characters that never grew on me. Same with other "good girls" like Maria or Cream.

Maybe it's because they're like the good guy's equivalent of a bad guy that is evil for the sake of being evil, coming off as rather shallow and with not much substance when compared to characters with more complex personalities in the sense of feeling more believable, which is usually what hooks me and makes me become invested in them along with how entertaining they can be.

[Multikaris]

15 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

Tikal, despite her being nice, is one of those characters that never grew on me. Same with other "good girls" like Maria or Cream.

Maybe it's because they're like the good guy's equivalent of a bad guy that is evil for the sake of being evil, coming off as rather shallow and with not much substance when compared to characters with more complex personalities in the sense of feeling more believable, which is usually what hooks me and makes me become invested in them along with how entertaining they can be.

Does the pairing of her and Shadow change this in any way?

[SBR2]

I used to despise Amy and I think I know why. The people that wrote her just kept writing her as prone to violence over anything especially if she thought Sonic was dating a girl. 

She's gotten better thanks to Boom and her comics version.

I will never like the Babylon Rogues though. They're so one note even by this franchises standards. I have never once given a crap about them. 

[A person, that exists]

Gamma - Sure, he had a somewhat deep arc in SA1, but still, as a character, Gamma is just way too grounded and boring. I mean, at least Omega was a more memorable character, with his obsession to kill all the robots and prove that he's the ultimate life form robot.

The Deadly Six - I mean, most Sonic villains are all kinda generic in a way, but these guys just take the cake. Not only are they boring archetype characters, but they're also incredibly annoying. Plus, their design... Not the best. I mean, they look like world bosses from a scrapped Mario game, not Sonic villains. And, really, most of them barely interact with Sonic, so it's not like they're doing a good job at being comic-relief characters either.

Hard-Boiled Heavies - Again, boring as hell pointless gimmicky world bosses. Nothing to see here. 

[Shaun Shikeishuu]

Shadow. I've despised him since his introduction in Sonic Adventure 2 and think he should have stayed dead. I don't like the dark clone of the main character cliche. That and he was sort of suppose to be like a rival to Sonic which is pointless as we already had Knuckles and Metal Sonic. Then he ends up joining G.U.N for some reason that I never understood.

Also dislike Charmy and Vector for being annoying and would have rather the Chaotix established in Hero's been Espio, Mighty and Ray.

Silver. Oh boy another hedgehog rival for Sonic. 

[Sonic Fan J]

Most of the characters grew on me in some way or another but I guess if I really stop and think about Cubot is the one who just never really did anything for me. At best he's the focus of Orbot's wit when he can't back talk Eggman but since everything goes over his head it just doesn't work for me. Perhaps I'm overthinking things as normal but he doesn't seem to do anything but divide what focus Eggman gets even further for jokes that rely on him not getting them to work. As someone who's not a fan of the comedic approach to the main series it doubly fails for me.

[Gumbit]

Shadow the hedgehog and Infinite

I don't hate them , it's just that edgy  cartoony animals don't appeal to me at all .

[Austroid]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 5:37 AM, A person, that exists said:

Hard-Boiled Heavies - Again, boring as hell pointless gimmicky world bosses. Nothing to see here. 

 It seemed like the Heavies got a "free pass" because Mania was so well received; and because Classic-era. If it was done in a modern game people would cry out "Lazy!" (kind of like the Deadly Six... oh wait.)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I wouldn’t say that’s entirely true...although in all fairness, the attitude towards such things doesn’t really help in disputing that belief.

[DabigRG]

13 hours ago, Austroid said:

 It seemed like the Heavies got a "free pass" because Mania was so well received; and because Classic-era. If it was done in a modern game people would cry out "Lazy!" (kind of like the Deadly Six... oh wait.)

To be fair, the Hardboiled Heavies are just Eggrobos that were warped by the Phantom Ruby into having different appearances and abilities, while the Deadly Six are these electromagnetic demon-like creatures that have supposedly lived for at least over a century at the youngest with their own culture and interests before Eggman enslaved them.

One clique is inherently more ignorable and justified in it's presentation then the other.

9 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

although in all fairness, the attitude towards such things doesn’t really help in disputing that belief.

How so, if ya don't mind me askin?

[Sonic Fan J]

Out of the HBH I think only the Heavy King really has enough ambition to carry forward as a developing character. the others have fun themes and great pantomime acting that helps them stick with you, but they lack any real sense of ambition or personal goal. The Heavy King on the other hand you can see developing in a way like Metal Sonic did in Heroes. Admittedly, looking at it like that I think if the Heroes plot was revisited (or if the Black Eggman plot from the OVA was played straight) that the Heavy King would make an interesting rival to Eggman while still being a playful threat to Sonic and friends. Knuckles' thoughts in Mania Adventures really makes it easier for me to see that too.

For the Deadly Six, considering who and what they are supposed to be there is so much potential with them that it just feels squandered. Imagine if you were a citizen of some land suffering from famine and suddenly all of your defense systems go haywire as Zomom appears on the horizon. If you don't perceive him as a threat you're a fool, but how do you fight him. That's what SLoW really needed to do with them, have little still shorts when they were introduced implying what type of trouble they caused before ending up stuck on the Lost Hex. It would have made meeting each of them more personal for the player and the type of threat they posed would have been more apparent. Unlike the HBH though they still have their backgrounds to make more out of them from for the future, whereas the HBH only really has the Heavy King and maybe magician as showing having something more.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

How so, if ya don't mind me askin?

The whole mindset of “Classic=good; Everything else=bad (even if it was highly acclaimed in the past)” that makes a faction of fans come off as borderline or even straight up purists, that’s how.

That’s something that’s been prelavant for the past decade, even despite the details that paint a contrary picture.

[MetalSkulkBane]

15 hours ago, Austroid said:

 It seemed like the Heavies got a "free pass" because Mania was so well received; and because Classic-era. If it was done in a modern game people would cry out "Lazy!" (kind of like the Deadly Six... oh wait.)

I don't think HBH are better than D6, but they better at their job.

Both teams should be colorful bosses, like Robot Masters. Whenever each team succeeds is arguable, but I think it's safe to say they at least colorful.

The problem is that Deadly Six also suppose to carry story and we waste a lot of cutscenes on their flat personalities. If I had to haste 30 minutes watching Heavies and found then uninteresting, then I might have been disappointed with them as well. If Flynn had to write about one of the group, I still would prefer D6, if anything just to see if he can do something fun with them.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

What would really be the difference in what they’d bring, aside from the D6 being independent and the HBH being created by Eggman?

Honestly, the HBH look like they’d be far more compentent than the D6, and they’re just as silly. 

Granted, they don’t have much in the way of dialogue, so I guess I can see that Ian wouldn’t have as much to work with by comparison.

[SaturnWolf]

I'm with you as far as Orbot and Cubot go. 

I never could stand Marine, either. She's inoffensive as a side character, all things considered, but dear lord was she obnoxious. Her entire gag was how annoying and dumb she was, and I don't find that very amusing or endearing. At least she only appeared in one game? I mean, since we're not counting the comics.

 

I guess to that degree Sticks also counts, (only counting her appearances in the Boom games); her voice was absolutely grating and spouting off Alex Jones tier conspiracy theories is only funny for so long.

 

[BaronGrackle]

5 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Out of the HBH I think only the Heavy King really has enough ambition to carry forward as a developing character. the others have fun themes and great pantomime acting that helps them stick with you, but they lack any real sense of ambition or personal goal. The Heavy King on the other hand you can see developing in a way like Metal Sonic did in Heroes. Admittedly, looking at it like that I think if the Heroes plot was revisited (or if the Black Eggman plot from the OVA was played straight) that the Heavy King would make an interesting rival to Eggman while still being a playful threat to Sonic and friends. Knuckles' thoughts in Mania Adventures really makes it easier for me to see that too.

See, I think Heavy Magician has the most promise. That preview image of her hovering literally above the scrapheap of HBH gives me hope.

I fear Heavy King would be too much like preexisting antagonists, including Metal and Robotnik.

[DabigRG]

5 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Out of the HBH I think only the Heavy King really has enough ambition to carry forward as a developing character. The Heavy King on the other hand you can see developing in a way like Metal Sonic did in Heroes. Admittedly, looking at it like that I think if the Heroes plot was revisited (or if the Black Eggman plot from the OVA was played straight) that the Heavy King would make an interesting rival to Eggman while still being a playful threat to Sonic and friends. Knuckles' thoughts in Mania Adventures really makes it easier for me to see that too.

Hm, I suppose. Should they ever actually appeared again, namely where clear characterization is actually any relevant.

5 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Imagine if you were a citizen of some land suffering from famine and suddenly all of your defense systems go haywire as Zomom appears on the horizon. If you don't perceive him as a threat you're a fool, but how do you fight him. That's what SLoW really needed to do with them, have little still shorts when they were introduced implying what type of trouble they caused before ending up stuck on the Lost Hex. 

Woah, what foreign manuals or supplementary materials are you getting this from?

 

5 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Out of the HBH I think only the Heavy King really has enough ambition to carry forward as a developing character. the others have fun themes and great pantomime acting that helps them stick with you, but they lack any real sense of ambition or personal goal. 

For the Deadly Six, considering who and what they are supposed to be there is so much potential with them that it just feels squandered.  That's what SLoW really needed to do with them, have little still shorts when they were introduced implying what type of trouble they caused before ending up stuck on the Lost Hex. It would have made meeting each of them more personal for the player and the type of threat they posed would have been more apparent. Unlike the HBH though they still have their backgrounds to make more out of them from for the future, whereas the HBH only really has the Heavy King and maybe magician as showing having something more.

 

4 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I don't think HBH are better than D6, but they better at their job.

Both teams should be colorful bosses, like Robot Masters. Whenever each team succeeds is arguable, but I think it's safe to say they at least colorful.

The problem is that Deadly Six also suppose to carry story and we waste a lot of cutscenes on their flat personalities. If I had to haste 30 minutes watching Heavies and found then uninteresting, then I might have been disappointed with them as well. If Flynn had to write about one of the group, I still would prefer D6, if anything just to see if he can do something fun with them.

Honestly, I never really gave the Hardboiled Heavies much thought. Though I've also never actually played Mania and most of my exposure to them comes through the intro, the Brainscratch playthrough, and jammin to some of the music. Still, to me, they were just six robots with colorful costumes/personas for Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles to fight in certain stages of the game, with Heavy King seemingly desiring power for himself being a handy way of both giving Knuckles a unique boss from the Unbreakable Bond and making the True Final Boss that much more chaotic. If people really enjoyed them and like their designs, then good.

 

Meanwhile, with the Deadly Six, you're pretty much in the ballpark. The Zeti clearly seemed like an effort to create tongue-in-cheek, yet formidable villains that would be manageable enough to recur with their own unique brand(s) of villainy. Not to mention that with the game being called Sonic Lost World, you kinda expect it to be about discovering some new locales and characters that have their own sense of mythos to be explored. Master Zik in particular always stood out to me as being a walking indication of some deeper context behind them. And yet, they primarily feel like just marketing friendly baddies as well as open showcases of some of Misters Pontac and Graff's shortcomings in writing for this series.

40 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

See, I think Heavy Magician has the most promise. That preview image of her hovering literally above the scrapheap of HBH gives me hope.

 

What are you referencing here?

[BaronGrackle]

51 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

What are you referencing here?

This one:

[DabigRG]

10 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

This one:

Huh. That's interesting.

I'm going to assume it has something to do with how she fights and/or is defeated compared to the others.

[Sonic Fan J]

15 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

See, I think Heavy Magician has the most promise. That preview image of her hovering literally above the scrapheap of HBH gives me hope.

I fear Heavy King would be too much like preexisting antagonists, including Metal and Robotnik.

I can understand that. My problem is that I'm a sucker for the Black Eggman plot from the OVA played straight and I feel Heavy King would fill that role nicely.

13 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Woah, what foreign manuals or supplementary materials are you getting this from?

Sorry, that was just me conceptualizing things on the fly based on their personalities and titles. Really, just a tag and a witty description would probably be enough though. Something like Zomom, has eaten any number of villages out of house and home. Sounds more playful that way too.

[BaronGrackle]

4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Huh. That's interesting.

I'm going to assume it has something to do with how she fights and/or is defeated compared to the others.

For me personally? Yes, I enjoy the gimmick of fighting with magic tricks, including the Titanic Monarch three-cups battle. Also:

1) Being magical distinguishes her from other Classic characters, and it cements her Phantom Ruby origins more bluntly than the other HBH. (Even if Amy Rose never touches tarot cards again, we could easily see them from Magician.)

2) Shapeshifting opens a whole new world of gameplay possibilities on par with Shang Tsung, Clayface, or Super Skrull. With Super Skrull, he was included in MvC3 as a gameplay substitute for the Fantastic Four characters. If SEGA wanted to, they could similarly wipe out the other robots and have Heavy Magician BECOME the team herself, just as we saw her being Team Hooligan.

3) Doesn't she look like she's enjoying herself in Mirage Saloon? I get a happy-psycho vibe from her. I think it's the jaunty pose and the sound effect used for her magic. I mean, even in the above image it looks like she's pulling the Phantom Ruby out of her hat!

4) Female villain robot. She and Heavy Rider get rarity points for that.

[DCFCSonic20]

I never liked Silver until about a couple of years ago, and that is mainly because he debuted int the worst possible fashion.

I just found him to be the dumb gullible person who doesn't think with his brain until his timeline is pretty much fucked. 

I feel like he was shoehorned into games like Generations and Forces, and that he needs a standalone game to stand on his own two feet and get a better reputation among fans.