Sonic Forces Reviews Thread

[Ryannumber1gamer]

8 minutes ago, Speedi said:

Because people get offended when you shit on things they like and try to come up with the most obnoxious excuses possible as to why their precious didn't get a grade A from the critics. For Sonic fans it's because there's this ingrained thought process that "Bad review = Sonic haters" when in reality the game probably just isn't that good and they can't handle criticism.

Despite the fact people who like Forces, myself included have criticised it on many aspects, including the fact the story while having potential was underdeveloped, rushed and far too short to be meaningful in any real way, Classic Sonic being a completely worthless addition to the game who also controls pretty terribly in terms of his momentum and physics, the fact that the avatar gameplay takes some getting used to in order to enjoy, the marketing of the game as a whole being absolutely horrid in every single possible way.

There's plenty of things to dislike about Forces, massive things to dislike even. Sonic's friends finally interacting for once after at least four to five years of being side-lined and having pretty terrible dialogue exchanges is the least of Forces' worries, especially when at the very least, what they're saying tries to add to the atmosphere of the game and shows a bit of personality, as opposed to just "oh hey sonic homing missile dodge".

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I wouldn't say it's hypocritical when famitsu has been notorious for overly generous reviews...

Polygon admittedly did have its own notoriety issues to be fair. But heck,  even then, not many people here just brushed it off. Heck,  even people who liked the game agreed with Polygon's reviews finer points. 

 And with the latest review here, there are quite a few eyebrow raisers are far more notable and make said review questionable compared to previous ones. 

Also, trying to write off concerns people might have about a review as simply defending it against any and all criticism is in and of itself,  an egregious error. 

[RedFox99]

9 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Addendum to the whole "Sonic's friends thing":

My biggest problem with this kind of thing is that it's nothing but LAZY criticism. It's utterly useless as a critique because it doesn't tell me WHY the friends are a problem, nor does it offer any ways to improve the situation. If it had been made clear that the criticism was towards how the characters only constantly chime in offering useless information, or lack any personality or character interactions, I'd at least understand where they were coming from and could accept that they had a point.

But NOPE! Gotta pander to dem Sonic fans who already despise everything related to Sonic's friends and don't even want to entertain the idea of improving them regardless of merit (or lack of) rite :B?!

You've definitely got a point. It doesn't come off as constructive as it doesn't provide a way to improve their characters. What criticisms do you have concerning Sonic's friends (in general)?

[KHCast]

The Forces review from polygon i thought was perfectly reasonable, a lot of people on here agree with it, especially those that have played it and didn't enjoy it as much as they wanted to. The review itself was fair, well written and informative, detailed, the score seemed reasonable and not out there, I'm not exactly sure what's eyebrow raising outside "its polygon"(which I thought mods said to stop doing)

[Mad Convoy]

10 minutes ago, KHCast said:

I wouldn't say it's hypocritical when famitsu has been notorious for overly generous reviews...

Elaborate then. I know famitsu has been notorious for generous reviews. But it was a bad review, and it was socially acceptable here to call it such and explain why. So why, when a negative review is bad quality, trying to point out areas where it fucks up is suddenly "accusing all negative reviews of bias." (when @Ryannumber1gamer was criticizing this article, he actually mentioned liking the Polygon article which was also very negative, and later clarified and apologized for saying that the reviewer is just on a hate train because he didn't read it closely enough)? He's also the only person who even claimed the reviewer was on a hate train in this discussion-- for the record, most people I talk to, myself included, that like Forces think that the review is simply lazy, as opposed to actively malicious. There are very few here or elsewhere who would claim that all negative reviewers have an anti-Sonic bias, even less who wouldn't later admit that they were wrong and acted impulsively and apologize for it.

Or, to quote what has become a mantra here: "If you think something is bad, its not against the rules or an inherently bad thing to call it such and give reasons."

[Meta77]

#famitsu reviews Japanese games. There taste are different. They can be generous on many games over there but if all 4 enjoyed what they played and cause they don't shit on what they played there score is to taken less serious than someone who os noting more than another reviewer in a different area who didn't like it? Sonic forces has some faults like a messy story and short stages but if they really enjoyed it who am I to say there's is bad cause it's not lining up with the west score or cause they didn5 write a 2 page essay?

[ShadowSJG]

Eurogamer said its not bad

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

The Forces review from polygon i thought was perfectly reasonable, a lot of people on here agree with it, especially those that have played it and didn't enjoy it as much as they wanted to. The review itself was fair, well written and informative, detailed, the score seemed reasonable and not out there, I'm not exactly sure what's eyebrow raising outside "its polygon"(which I thought mods said to stop doing)

 You misunderstand. I was complementing the polygon review. It's the LastLife review,  hence when I said "this latest review" that has issues. 

[KHCast]

I wouldn't exactly say I said the review in question was perfect. Like Blue blood said, its harsh yeah, but it still harbors points that are fair to criticize the game by. I simply don't see it as a conspiracy to purposely make the game look bad, when the game can easily do that on its own

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Mad Convoy said:

Elaborate then. I know famitsu has been notorious for generous reviews. But it was a bad review, and it was socially acceptable here to call it such and explain why. So why, when a negative review is bad quality, trying to point out areas where it fucks up is suddenly "accusing all negative reviews of bias." (when @Ryannumber1gamer was criticizing this article, he actually mentioned liking the Polygon article which was also very negative, and later clarified and apologized for saying that the reviewer is just on a hate train because he didn't read it closely enough)? He's also the only person who even claimed the reviewer was on a hate train-- for the record,

I just want to clarify this was based solely off the article itself, which only mentioned the success of Mania and Generations, not the actual quality of the titles. That mixed with the fact I skimmed through the article and obviously not knowing of the reviewer beforehand led to that conclusion because of comments like the series should just die and the fanbase is suffering and such. 

Like to be frank, that's overblowing the issue ten fold. Forces has issues but it's hardly the game that's going to make a fanbase suffer and that SEGA should put it down here and now to stop said suffering, as well as Sonic and his cast just going away.

Again, I apologise for making that assumption, and obviously, it was an incorrect one to make, but those kind of comments are the type of thing that I've seen Sonic haters make before. Especially when that criticism is one of the least of Forces' worries.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

but it still harbors points that are fair to criticize the game by. I simply don't see it as a conspiracy to purposely make the game look bad

Yes it has points, which is why it's even more jarring when they resort to lazy buzzwords and uncritical phrases instead.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

I wouldn't exactly say I said the review in question was perfect. Like Blue blood said, its harsh yeah, but it still harbors points that are fair to criticize the game by. I simply don't see it as a conspiracy to purposely make the game look bad, when the game can easily do that on its own

 Where did anyone in this thread allude to it being a conspiracy? You might have been jumping the gun on that one. 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

8 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Addendum to the whole "Sonic's friends thing":

My biggest problem with this kind of thing is that it's nothing but LAZY criticism. It's utterly useless as a critique because it doesn't tell me WHY the friends are a problem, nor does it offer any ways to improve the situation. If it had been made clear that the criticism was towards how the characters only constantly chime in offering useless information, or lack any personality or character interactions, I'd at least understand where they were coming from and could accept that they had a point.

But NOPE! Gotta pander to dem Sonic fans who already despise everything related to Sonic's friends and don't even want to entertain the idea of improving them regardless of merit (or lack of) rite :B?!

Didn't he do that though? Unless I read wrong, he commented on how annoying they are because they're constantly chirping on the radio. That's pretty fair and I guarantee its going to be a sticking point with this game among general audiences. If you're not already invested in these characters and you play this game, there's a reasonable chance you may find yourself annoyed....

And "Sonic's shitty friends" spawned from the numerous games in a row in which they sucked. That meme developed quite naturally as a reaction to games in which we were forced to go through awful gameplay in order to get to the mostly fun parts of Sonic style gameplay...that lasted 3 minutes before the next awful section. So now we have to listen to them standing around and yapping incessantly at us...because a group of fans are loud about their inclusion being absolutely necessary in any Sonic title....even though evidence does not support that in the slightest.

The meme really fits, at least in the 3D titles. 

Note: I like many of "Sonic's shitty friends". Knuckles, Tails, Shadow, Amy, etc. But.... they suck and making them not suck is extremely difficult when even Sonic himself isn't all that well executed of a concept in 3D.

[KHCast]

@Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon The whole argument on it being "biased" and therefore unfair. I'll agree some of the things said in the review may be a bit strange, but I'm not about to write off it completely when he still clearly played the game and had genuine thoughts on it.

[Harkofthewaa]

Come on, we all know Forces isn't up to snuff. So I don't know about you, but I'm just going to sit back and watch the show.

It's just this...

again. Except this time we were actually questioning Forces the moment it reared it's head.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

2 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Didn't he do that though? Unless I read wrong, he commented on how annoying they are because they're constantly chirping on the radio. That's pretty fair and I guarantee its going to be a sticking point with this game among general audiences. If you're not already invested in these characters and you play this game, there's a reasonable chance you may find yourself annoyed....

And "Sonic's shitty friends" spawned from the numerous games in a row in which they sucked. That meme developed quite naturally as a reaction to games in which we were forced to go through awful gameplay in order to get to the mostly fun parts of Sonic style gameplay...that lasted 3 minutes before the next awful section. So now we have to listen to them standing around and yapping incessantly at us...because a group of fans are loud about their inclusion being absolutely necessary in any Sonic title....even though evidence does not support that in the slightest.

The meme really fits, at least in the 3D titles. 

Note: I like many of "Sonic's shitty friends". Knuckles, Tails, Shadow, Amy, etc. But.... they suck and making them not suck is extremely difficult when even Sonic himself isn't all that well executed of a concept in 3D.

"As usual for a modern Sonic game, there are far too many of his scattered menagerie chipping in with advice when the vast majority of them would be more appealing as roadkill." -LastLife Reviewer

This is the only thing he said in regards to the friends that I found. No critical thought, no ways to improve them, NOTHING.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

8 minutes ago, KHCast said:

@Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon The whole argument on it being "biased" and therefore unfair. I'll agree some of the things said in the review may be a bit strange, but I'm not about to write off it completely when he still clearly played the game and had genuine thoughts on it.

 That's no where near applicable to it being a conspiracy theory when people bring up legitimate details in the review that give off the wrong impression of the reviewer themselves. And give your peers here credit,  they actually have made note to point out problematic bits and not just write it off. 

I mean,  not every critique of a review is blobs famboyism. If you really disagree,  just say you disagree or counter with evidence to the contrary when they actually do bring these arguments to the table.

[Celestia]

18 minutes ago, ShadowSJG said:

Eurogamer said its not bad

Here's a link, by the way. It talks more about the performance than anything, as far as I can tell from skimming it, which makes sense since it's a Digital Foundry article and not in the reviews section. But they do say of the game itself that it's not bad, just a let down and half-baked in comparison to the other post-'06 games.

[Blue Blood]

8 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

"As usual for a modern Sonic game, there are far too many of his scattered menagerie chipping in with advice when the vast majority of them would be more appealing as roadkill." -LastLife Reviewer

This is the only thing he said in regards to the friends that I found. No critical thought, no ways to improve them, NOTHING.

If you already don't like Sonic's Shitty Friends™, then Forces goes to absolutely no effort to make you change your mind. They appear in cutscenes to tell you the story without actually doing anything and then talk at you constantly throughout the levels. There's nothing wrong with the statement that the review is making.

[KHCast]

@SenEDDtor Missile Yeah reading the review again, I can definitely pick up "lazy" vibes...but it's just weird cause doesn't feel like he's intentionally trying to shit on it and be unfair, especially as he's a fan. Buuut, I can't ignore his lack of critique and ways to improve. Nonetheless, it still to me seems to be genuine that he simply did not enjoy it even if the review itself is lack luster. It still manages to raise issues about the game many can agree with, so that's why I'm not about to say it's being totally unfair. Again it's harsh, but not bad or not helpful. (Plus what's even the history of this reviewer/site regarding scoring? Is it as notorious as a site like famitsu?)

[Mad Convoy]

1 minute ago, Blue Blood said:

If you don't like Sonic's Shitty Friends™, then Forces goes to absolutely no effort to make you change your mind. They appear in cutscenes to tell you the story without actually doing anything and then talk at you constantly throughout the levels. There's nothing wrong with the statement that the review is making.

If he'd actually said that, I could see where he was coming from even if I thought it was an exaggeration. But he didn't. He just states that Sonic's shitty friends need to go as if its absolute fact and in no need of even a quick, brief explanation. We're not asking for changed opinions on Sonic friends, we just want a statement on the matter that isn't just a tired meme as reassurance that the review isn't lazy and maybe even suggests some kind of remedy to it.

------

And yeah, @KHCast, there's a lot of lazy parts . But again, we point out parts that are bad not because we think he's actively malicious, but because we want better from his reviews and also have some reason to doubt his assessment. I mean, yes, what he says is valid, but in terms of merit its on par with user reviews on Metacritic (that is to say, valid but giving them a ton of scrutiny is basically a requirement to get anything useful and informative out of them).

[RedFox99]

10 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

If you already don't like Sonic's Shitty Friends™, then Forces goes to absolutely no effort to make you change your mind. They appear in cutscenes to tell you the story without actually doing anything and then talk at you constantly throughout the levels. There's nothing wrong with the statement that the review is making.

Okay, those are actually fair points, but did he say those things?

[Clewis]

26 minutes ago, Harkofthewaa said:

It's just this...*Sonic Cycle*

again. Except this time we were actually questioning Forces the moment it reared it's head.

So it's not the Sonic Cycle then.

[Multikaris]

31 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

"As usual for a modern Sonic game, there are far too many of his scattered menagerie chipping in with advice when the vast majority of them would be more appealing as roadkill." -LastLife Reviewer

This is the only thing he said in regards to the friends that I found. No critical thought, no ways to improve them, NOTHING.

If he has nothing nice to say about them, he could at least say why he finds the characters to be irredeemable. Then we’d see more of this “hater”’s POV.

[dbzfan7]

1 minute ago, Clewis said:

So it's not the Sonic Cycle then.

I thought we're not allowed to even mention this here, I thought that was a rule...