Euro Gamer Interview Nakamura on Forces, Mania and the Future of Sonic

[Blue Blood]

I want to say that the absolute main problem behind all of this is still Sonic Teams entire game/level deign philosophy. They don't have a clearly defined set of rules and behavious for Sonic that come together to make a good gameplay experience. It's like they build a level first, and then put Sonic in after most of the work is done. It applies to Lost World as much as it does the Boost entries and even Classic Sonic in Generations and Forces. And then you have extra acts/missions like this:

It's like nobody even designed it.

If there was forethought in the game design, Sonic would control more naturally without the need for any automation and invisible scripts, But it actually feels like Sonic Team play these levels and say "Oh no, I can't go around this loop because I'm not going fast enough. That means that we need to put a booster in!". 

[Straw Hat]

Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea for the Lost World guys to come back? And for the next major Modern Sonic title of all things? And not only that, but throwing the Gens director behind the Mario & Sonic series...? Seriously??? What even is Sonic Team...

[Wraith]

A potential Sonic Team shake up post Forces and a new drive to reproduce the magic Mania made might lead to good things. I'm interested.

There's not much more to say than that. I hope they learn the right lessons from it. They've never had such a blatant cheat sheet before.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

A few years ago I might have been excited by Nakamura''s statement. 

The problem is that I simply do not trust Sonic Team as a singular development group to properly interpret something nuanced like the classic gameplay and translate it into 3D. Based on history, it is a near certainty that they will screw it up and create an even worse situation for the franchise than exists now, since they would soil the highly positive reputation of the classic era and destroy the only credit remaining with the franchise.

I've been rooting for them for a very long time to finally "nail it" with Sonic, but they have proven without a doubt that, not only do they not understand fundamentally the gameplay mechanics or appeal...they're also not too interested in actually doing it.

Come on, this is almost 20 years after the original Sonic Adventure and that was arguably the only serious attempt they've ever had at something like that....since the rest were so far from that goal they might as well have been from a different franchise.

I, honest to God in heaven, do not believe they should even be given the chance unless they are being supported by a group like the Mania team who clearly understands how to execute Sonic''s fundamental gameplay design. And at that point, you have to wonder how Sonic Team would still be useful or relevant at all? Why not let some other group gave a crack at making a traditional Sonic game and put the current Sonic Team on another project where they belong? They can even continue to do games like Forces on perhaps a smaller budget, as a side series. But let someone else push the envelope with Sonic and make a flagship platforming series that can compete with Mario Odyssey and the very best out on the market.

Let the current Sonic Team do what they're good at. They're not good at Sonic, however, and it has been proven many times over. 

[Meta77]

For me just keep it simple keep 3d games 3d. Like adventure and 06 not buggy but the openers of it

And for 2d leave it 2d.

Classic and modern fans both get what they want without any of the fan base trying to strangle the other cause they see either better than the other

[superman43]

13 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

For me just keep it simple keep 3d games 3d. Like adventure and 06 not buggy but the openers of it

And for 2d leave it 2d.

Classic and modern fans both get what they want without any of the fan base trying to strangle the other cause they see either better than the other

Please not again. As for myself, I grew up with Classic trilogy, despite being born in 1996. But I really like Heroes (yes, even with a terrible squeaky sounds of Tails´ voice actor and other miserable things) and I do kind of like Sonic´s parts in Adventure and Adventure 2. I think that is what they should really focus on. To make a 3D game that builds upon Adventure, Adventure 2 and Heroes, may have similar storyline form as Adventure 2, but for god´s sake don´t do again mech stages and treasure hunting stages. 

The level design could be build upon what Generations show (but without the BOOST) and/or some of the best stages in SA, SA2 and Heroes. Some simple, not heartbreaking story and that´s it. I think that would be inspiring 3D Sonic game after many years and will fulfill what Adventure Era people wanted as well as bringing new people to the franchise.

[Meta77]

I'm just going off with how many act toward 3d games no need for that  not again stuff.  you can have the best of both without the other Sonic team keeps thinking people that like 2d means they need to put 2d in their games now which is  not  true. Sonic team has a habit to  trying to much at once

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

Everyone likes what they like and I won't try to sway anyone to agreeing with my preferences...

However....

If Forces does not do well in a few weeks, I think SEGA should strongly consider eliminating the entirety of the Modern Sonic concept and aesthetic. Just trash everything. It cannot be demonstrated any more resoundingly that it does not work. It sucks and always has since Sonic Adventure 2 first took the series on a sharp turn down edgy road.

The 2D series is clearly fine.

For 3D, Actually do what Nakamura is suggesting but take it one dramatic step further and get rid of all the garbage in terms of convoluted plots, character clutter, tone, etc.  You're already one step up by eliminating the gameplay genre roulette that SA2 and '06 did. Show the world that the Sonic that has been a joke for nearly 20 years is finally gone, and the one that has always worked and been successful is finally back...but now he can grow in the third dimension and be better than ever! Mania is like a freebie for them, and really should be making this much, much easier to accomplish in terms of design inspiration.

Do your homework for  a proper 3D translation, execute, and profit. The proper minds and resources exist that can get this done.

There is little to lose and an enormous amount to gain from this. 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

23 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Everyone likes what they like and I won't try to sway anyone to agreeing with my preferences...

However....

If Forces does not do well in a few weeks, I think SEGA should strongly consider eliminating the entirety of the Modern Sonic concept and aesthetic. Just trash everything. It cannot be demonstrated any more resoundingly that it does not work. It sucks and always has since Sonic Adventure 2 first took the series on a sharp turn down edgy road.

I disagree incredibly strongly. I just got done playing SA2's story for the first time in years, and it wrapped me in like none of the voiceless classics could ever hope to. No way in hell would I want them to throw that kind of thing out. How often does a platformer make you interested in what's going on? Rarely. SA2 and to a lesser extent SA1 were able to do that. 

[Meta77]

Regardless you give me my choas back,and I'm happy

[superman43]

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

I disagree incredibly strongly. I just got done playing SA2's story for the first time in years, and it wrapped me in like none of the voiceless classics could ever hope to. No way in hell would I want them to throw that kind of thing out. How often does a platformer make you interested in what's going on? Rarely. SA2 and to a lesser extent SA1 were able to do that. 

Hm, maybe we should sum up all good levels in SA1 and SA2 and possibly Heroes. Apart from those being in Generations (both versions)... because they won´t be the chosen ones by ST there if they were not good.

[Badnik Mechanic]

8 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

 I just got done playing SA2's story for the first time in years, and it wrapped me in like none of the voiceless classics could ever hope to. No way in hell would I want them to throw that kind of thing out. How often does a platformer make you interested in what's going on? Rarely. SA2 and to a lesser extent SA1 were able to do that. 

Voice acting != gameplay/level design.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, Mayor D said:

Voice acting != gameplay/level design.

Notice how I only included the part where he was talking about story and tone, though. Those don't need to be changed, even if level design does. 

[Spooky Mulder]

To be honest, I don’t think anything really matters until SEGA decides to shakeup Sonic Team. Iizuka gets some credit for pursuing the Mania project, but it’s not as if that makes up for his lack of competent leadership otherwise.

If fangames and fan developers have proved anything, it’s that the problem is not with Sonic as a concept. It’s not that 2D Sonic isn’t popular anymore. It’s not that Sonic simply cannot be translated into 3D. The problem is that the people making these games don’t understand what makes this franchise fun in the first place and perhaps aren’t competent enough to implement those things even if they wanted to.

@Blue Blood is right. It seems as though levels are laid out with no forethought to how they might actually be played and boosters or other scripted sequences are thrown in anywhere things happen to not work. I used to think Sonic Team spammed these things because they thought making Sonic as fast as possible was what people wanted. Perhaps it started that way, but today it’s clear these things have become a crutch—nothing more than patches for broken level design and shoddy physics.

Unfortunately, fixing that will require a lot more than simply recognizing that Mania was well-received. 

[Pawn]

Perhaps SEGA looked at the critical reception of Colours and Generations, wondering whether to next time go with the team that succeeded on a low budget or the other, more costly choice.

No contest when money trumps brains.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

33 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

I disagree incredibly strongly. I just got done playing SA2's story for the first time in years, and it wrapped me in like none of the voiceless classics could ever hope to. No way in hell would I want them to throw that kind of thing out. How often does a platformer make you interested in what's going on? Rarely. SA2 and to a lesser extent SA1 were able to do that. 

Again, I'm not faulting you for feeling that way about the game. I never claimed anything about enjoyment amongst diehard Sonic fans.

However this is specifically why I said "If Forces doesn't do well". Because if it doesn't, then the market will have proven (once again) that most people do not care for that kind of tone/aesthetic and greatly prefer one of the traditional Sonic mold. Its been proven long ago; we're just waiting for a more imminent example so that there can no longer be a dispute internally among SEGA or its fans to which the prudent move is.

Please note that even though I'm a "classic fan", I would say the exact same thing if Sonic Mania had not done well. In that hypothetical case, I would say: 

"Sonic had his early time in the spotlight but people do not seem to appreciate that kind of gameplay anymore. Sonic Team should continue to explore new interpretations of Sonic for the modern audience."

 

But guess what? That's not the reality of the market and game reviewers. Mania did very well, just as well as the classic games always have except on a smaller scale, since it was just a side project with minimal investment. We know that that style of Sonic has always been popular and successful, so it is easy to justify a continuation of that. Great reception (best in 15 years!) and sales.

 

It however is not easy at all to justify the continuation of Modern Sonic, given what the Modern Sonic concept has done to the reputation and vitality of this franchise. For most of the last 20 years, it has largely been memories of Sonic's better days that has kept this franchise alive. And sales of those games have seen a steady decline. 

Always buy games that you like regardless of others opinions. But if one is going to argue about what the best move should be going forward, one has to consider what actually works among the general audience, not just themselves or a subsection of one community. Modern Sonic has been infamously bad. "Classic era" Sonic is famously good. Major difference.

 

Forces will inform us of much.

 

[kalion]

6 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Everyone likes what they like and I won't try to sway anyone to agreeing with my preferences...

However....

If Forces does not do well in a few weeks, I think SEGA should strongly consider eliminating the entirety of the Modern Sonic concept and aesthetic. Just trash everything. It cannot be demonstrated any more resoundingly that it does not work. It sucks and always has since Sonic Adventure 2 first took the series on a sharp turn down edgy road.

The 2D series is clearly fine.

For 3D, Actually do what Nakamura is suggesting but take it one dramatic step further and get rid of all the garbage in terms of convoluted plots, character clutter, tone, etc.  You're already one step up by eliminating the gameplay genre roulette that SA2 and '06 did. Show the world that the Sonic that has been a joke for nearly 20 years is finally gone, and the one that has always worked and been successful is finally back...but now he can grow in the third dimension and be better than ever! Mania is like a freebie for them, and really should be making this much, much easier to accomplish in terms of design inspiration.

Do your homework for  a proper 3D translation, execute, and profit. The proper minds and resources exist that can get this done.

There is little to lose and an enormous amount to gain from this. 

I'm very confused, you say you don't trust Sonic Team (Which I agree with) so how is just scrapping everything  and starting over under the same team's hands gonna end up any better?  Especially if they don't understand Sonic and what makes it fun.

All this interview just confirms what I've been saying for many months, Sonic Team needs someone like Koizumi to challenge what a Sonic Game should be, breaking away from the status quo. After all his challenge against what a Mario Game is, has led to the Genesis of Super Mario Odyssey.

[GentlemanX]

It astounds me that seven years ago, critics was praising Sonic Colors for being the epitome of contemporary Sonic gameplay and six years ago those same critics saw Sonic Generations as a major game worth celebrating. It was irrefutable that Sonic was popular beyond the established fanbase.

Following that we have had party spin-off games (Mario & Sonic 2012, 2014, 2016), low key mobile games (Runners etc.), a racing title (ASRT), and a sub-brand that more or less imploded on launch (Rise of Lyric, Shattered Crystal, Fire & Ice). For games actually important to the main Sonic brand, we've had Sonic 4 II (because Sonic 4 I was relatively well received outside of the Sonic fanbase), the clearly cooly received Lost World, the blockbuster Mania, and now the upcoming Forces.

Of every title that has come out since Generations, exactly two have really underwhelmed consumers: Lost World for not keeping up the momentum from Generations and Boom's utter disaster.

That's it. Really, that's it. Two games, one of which was heavily marketed as not part of the main series and has no reflection on Modern Sonic, his aesthetic, or even his gameplay style.

How bad are people really expecting Forces to do? Multiple people have talked about the mediocre level design and that they don't find it engaging to play. It's been hammered in that a portion of the Sonic fanbase doesn't care for the tone and aesthetic direction Forces is going for. People have joked about the idea of using OCs and that Classic Sonic is being shoehorned in where he isn't needed. The game clearly isn't appealing to certain groups of people.

But is this really going to bomb harder than 06 and Rise of Lyric? Is it that unplayable and bug ridden? Is this really going to be so disastrous that it ends the brand as it has existed for nearly two decades now? That it retroactively makes successful titles like SA1-2, and Heroes, and Rush, and Colors, and Generations all detrimental to the future of the brand?

Are these real stakes this game is capable of risking, or are some people so unhappy with this game that they want it to turn out that way?

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

1 minute ago, kalion said:

I'm very confused, you say you don't trust Sonic Team (Which I agree with) so how is just scrapping everything  and starting over under the same team's hands gonna end up any better?  Especially if they don't understand Sonic and what makes it fun.

All this interview just confirms what I've been saying for many months, Sonic Team needs someone like Koizumi to challenge what a Sonic Game should be, breaking away from the status quo. After all his challenge against what a Mario Game is, has led to the Genesis of Super Mario Odyssey.

Perhaps I could have made it more clear but this part:

"....the proper minds and resources exist that can get this done..."

is an answer to your question. I've stated here and elsewhere several times that at a very bare minimum, Sonic Team should be on a very tight leash following Forces (IF it doesn't do too well) and should be required to have support like the Mania Team make sure that they nail the gameplay essence of the classics. It is possible that SEGA is observing the situation just as we are, and thinking that though Sonic Team has performed poorly, the Mania Team may not have the chops to completely take over the series now. I wouldn't agree with that view at this point but it would be a reasonable view to have.

A more direct, simplified route would be to just let the Mania Team lead the next project, with an experienced team of 3D programmers (even an outsourced one) to support their vision...and by this, let the current Sonic Team work on something else for the company. 

So you may not have seen it but I have said that numerous times.

[Diogenes]

11 minutes ago, kalion said:

I'm very confused, you say you don't trust Sonic Team (Which I agree with) so how is just scrapping everything  and starting over under the same team's hands gonna end up any better?  Especially if they don't understand Sonic and what makes it fun.

Personally, while it's not a guaranteed solution by any measure, there's enough that I don't like about how they've been handling the series that throwing it out and rolling the dice again is becoming worth the risk. At least if they shake themselves out of the mindset of needing to appeal to every group of fans by trying to emulate elements of existing games they might be able to make something with some consistency and sense of identity.

1 minute ago, GentlemanX said:

But is this really going to bomb harder than 06 and Rise of Lyric?

Probably not. But that doesn't mean it can't still do significant damage to this already shaky series.

1 minute ago, GentlemanX said:

That it retroactively makes successful titles like SA1-2, and Heroes, and Rush, and Colors, and Generations all detrimental to the future of the brand?

No those games are already detrimental in their own ways.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

30 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

It astounds me that seven years ago, critics was praising Sonic Colors for being the epitome of contemporary Sonic gameplay and six years ago those same critics saw Sonic Generations as a major game worth celebrating. It was irrefutable that Sonic was popular beyond the established fanbase.

Following that we have had party spin-off games (Mario & Sonic 2012, 2014, 2016), low key mobile games (Runners etc.), a racing title (ASRT), and a sub-brand that more or less imploded on launch (Rise of Lyric, Shattered Crystal, Fire & Ice). For games actually important to the main Sonic brand, we've had Sonic 4 II (because Sonic 4 I was relatively well received outside of the Sonic fanbase), the clearly cooly received Lost World, the blockbuster Mania, and now the upcoming Forces.

Of every title that has come out since Generations, exactly two have really underwhelmed consumers: Lost World for not keeping up the momentum from Generations and Boom's utter disaster.

That's it. Really, that's it. Two games, one of which was heavily marketed as not part of the main series and has no reflection on Modern Sonic, his aesthetic, or even his gameplay style.

How bad are people really expecting Forces to do? Multiple people have talked about the mediocre level design and that they don't find it engaging to play. It's been hammered in that a portion of the Sonic fanbase doesn't care for the tone and aesthetic direction Forces is going for. People have joked about the idea of using OCs and that Classic Sonic is being shoehorned in where he isn't needed. The game clearly isn't appealing to certain groups of people.

But is this really going to bomb harder than 06 and Rise of Lyric? Is it that unplayable and bug ridden? Is this really going to be so disastrous that it ends the brand as it has existed for nearly two decades now? That it retroactively makes successful titles like SA1-2, and Heroes, and Rush, and Colors, and Generations all detrimental to the future of the brand?

Are these real stakes this game is capable of risking, or are some people so unhappy with this game that they want it to turn out that way?

Colors and Generations were received well but not exactly what one would describe as stellar overall. The average scores were in the mid to high 70s, which was a large improvement over most of Sonic's previous 3D history, but not particularly high in comparison to the average platformer on the market. Certainly nothing to write home about. They were notable primarily for NOT being terrible, which was a breath of fresh air given most of the 2000s decade which wasn't so good for the blue blur.

Not to mention, Sonic main titles have seen declining sales for some time now. The franchise has severely weakened as a brand due to its reputation, and its why SEGA has been publicly apologizing for the last few years.

 

About Forces: I'm not as hard on the game as many others. Much of it does not suit my personal tastes but I do understand how it can appeal to certain segments of fans. To me it is largely inoffensive, in that the entire package is decidedly bland. The gameplay is very light, the cinematics have been dialed up quite a bit, the graphics mostly look solid. Its nothing like another '06, which was a full on tragedy and a clearly unfinished game kicked out the door. Forces by comparison is much more polished but it seems to lack consistency and focus, and the gameplay is weak compared to the own franchise's standards, without even considering the average platforming game. And to top it off, Sonic Team has supposedly been developing this game for the last 4 years, right after the last 3D outing for Sonic was a disaster (not their fault) and SEGA promised that Sonic would become a global brand again and improve in quality and consistency. This would be a clear failure in that regard.

The reason why many are seemingly pessimistic about the game is that the main draw for most of the "target" audience seems to be the story. But outside of a certain segment of fans, story in Modern Sonic games has never exactly been a strong selling point. So if the gameplay is average at best and the story a bit silly to those who aren't into the Modern Sonic universe, there don't seem to be any remaining strong points. For this reason I expect the game to score a bit lower than Colors and Generations. Sales are a different beast, one which we'll have to wait and see. 

[kalion]

21 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Probably not. But that doesn't mean it can't still do significant damage to this already shaky series.

 

Yeah, exactly this. A Youtuber I met recently asked me how I felt about Sonic Forces and I straight up said it's fine, I'm not worried about the game, I'm worried about the future of the series as this Game would probably teach them all the wrong misinterpreted stuff to take forward..

[Mad Convoy]

55 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

It astounds me that seven years ago, critics was praising Sonic Colors for being the epitome of contemporary Sonic gameplay and six years ago those same critics saw Sonic Generations as a major game worth celebrating. It was irrefutable that Sonic was popular beyond the established fanbase.

Following that we have had party spin-off games (Mario & Sonic 2012, 2014, 2016), low key mobile games (Runners etc.), a racing title (ASRT), and a sub-brand that more or less imploded on launch (Rise of Lyric, Shattered Crystal, Fire & Ice). For games actually important to the main Sonic brand, we've had Sonic 4 II (because Sonic 4 I was relatively well received outside of the Sonic fanbase), the clearly cooly received Lost World, the blockbuster Mania, and now the upcoming Forces.

Of every title that has come out since Generations, exactly two have really underwhelmed consumers: Lost World for not keeping up the momentum from Generations and Boom's utter disaster.

That's it. Really, that's it. Two games, one of which was heavily marketed as not part of the main series and has no reflection on Modern Sonic, his aesthetic, or even his gameplay style.

How bad are people really expecting Forces to do? Multiple people have talked about the mediocre level design and that they don't find it engaging to play. It's been hammered in that a portion of the Sonic fanbase doesn't care for the tone and aesthetic direction Forces is going for. People have joked about the idea of using OCs and that Classic Sonic is being shoehorned in where he isn't needed. The game clearly isn't appealing to certain groups of people.

But is this really going to bomb harder than 06 and Rise of Lyric? Is it that unplayable and bug ridden? Is this really going to be so disastrous that it ends the brand as it has existed for nearly two decades now? That it retroactively makes successful titles like SA1-2, and Heroes, and Rush, and Colors, and Generations all detrimental to the future of the brand?

Are these real stakes this game is capable of risking, or are some people so unhappy with this game that they want it to turn out that way?

To address that last one, you do get those people. That started long before Forces, when people who were unhappy with Sonic Adventure hoped that the game bombed so that they could get their Sonic. It went quiet for awhile, but popped back up with the release of Heroes, Shadow, and especially 06, which were often contrasted with Sonic Rush, the Sonic Advance series, and the Classic titles as evidence that Sonic doesn't work in 3D and should be exclusively 2D or dead from here on out. Unleashed was much hated from those folks, and they only gave it good marks on what they associated with 2D Sonic. From them, Sonic 4 was praised baselessly while Colors was condemned as a Super Mario Galaxy ripoff (because it takes place in space and has you travel to different planets I guess?) in hopes of pushing Sonic Team to make 2D games forever and never do 3D again. Didn't work out, they went quiet. Come Lost World, they have more material to work with to prove that 2D Sonic is best. Come Boom, and they successfully tied Boom to mainline Sonic by making baseless claims that it was a reboot (apparently a lot of Sonic fans don't know what a reboot is, but that's a different discussion) and claiming that it was going to end 3D Sonic forever. By Forces, that mindset is set and like Lost World, they have material to work with and Mania to contrast it with.

However, it should be noted that these groups have been diminishing since Sonic 4 came out. Sonic 4 was a wake-up call to most of those folks that mindlessly praising 2D Sonic just for being 2D is not a good way to get what they want, and so they decided to be more reasonable and analytical. This and 06 is also what I suspect is the reason that these days fans are so laser focused on getting reasons out of people for liking this or that or enjoying a game, or accusing fans who enjoy a game of not acknowledging its flaws and so leading the franchise to ruination by allowing bad/mediocre games to succeed (or, to quote the dead horse, "just liking everything Sonic hands you [that's 3D/2D/Boom/etc.]"). Even in situations (read: nearly all of them except reviews and other writings that are supposed to be detailed, well-sourced, balanced affairs) when doing that is pointless-- furthering the division between factions of fans in the process and accomplishing absolutely nothing of worth.

But I'm going on a tangent here. Point is, yes, there are people who will never be happy with Forces no matter what and want it to fail so they get "their" Sonic. However, they've been in the minority for year and so don't have nearly the sales and criticism pull that they used to. They do not comprise the majority of Forces critics and skeptics, and so are not worth worrying about here. For now anyway.

As for the other things.

I think Forces is riskier than a lot of fans give it credit for. The Avatar, the serious story, the breaking of the status quo by having Eggman actually win and conquer the world, new Eggbots, more than two difficulty tiers... this game breaks a lot of the accepted Boost norms and attempts things the franchise hasn't tried before or in years. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Honestly, I'm not sure and won't be until I see more of the game in action and the like. However, it probably will not be a Rise of Lyric or Sonic 06 level catastrophe. At worst it will break even (with the exception of the Switch version and possibly the PC) with bad-to-mediocre reception. Every new Sonic game that is less than perfection will be perceived as catastrophic, but long term I doubt it will hurt the franchise anymore than Heroes did (and even that's a worst case scenario). Nakamura did confirm in the interview that Sonic Team would still make 3D Sonic games (implying that one is in the planning stages already) so I strongly doubt this will be the last 3D Sonic game.

I live in Mario country, so its hard for me to judge if Sonic really has little pull outside its fanbase or if people just keep their fandom offline and private. I do know that its quite easy to find used Sonic games as well as merch for relatively high prices in my neck of the woods. Sonic Rush and Sonic Gens in particular are probably the most popular and well-known in this area (though Mania is getting more and more popular these days), with most of the fans I meet IRL being some variation of "Oh, Sonic! Generations, right?" or "Man, I love playing Sonic Rush! What other Sonic games are out there?". I also know that nobody that's acknowledged my Sonic shirt and the like have ever mistreated me for being a Sonic fan (most actually find Sonic cool and complimented me, but rest respect me even if they aren't a fan themselves). So I can't say for sure how much appeal Sonic has outside the fandom, but I have had enough experiences to be able to roll my eyes when I hear somebody say that only Sonic fans don't hate Sonic.

[A235]

On 2017. 10. 24. at 5:44 AM, Blue Blood said:

He's not surprised by Mania's success because he knows "people like 2D games because they're easy to get in to".

wut...... Nakamura, You totally misunderstand why Mania succeeds. 

[knuckles20]

7 hours ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

Everyone likes what they like and I won't try to sway anyone to agreeing with my preferences...

However....

If Forces does not do well in a few weeks, I think SEGA should strongly consider eliminating the entirety of the Modern Sonic concept and aesthetic. Just trash everything. It cannot be demonstrated any more resoundingly that it does not work. It sucks and always has since Sonic Adventure 2 first took the series on a sharp turn down edgy road.

 

Or they can actually improve the 3D and not continue on the path of “the let’s make everything all about classic era”.

You really think scrapping Modern Sonic would solve anything? It would cause more fans to leave and raise more amniosity within the fandom.

I may not care about the classic era but I don’t have a problem with it existing with games that fits my tastes. 

Why is it such a problem that some of us want actual 3D, multiple playable characters and a plot that wasn’t made by 5 year olds for 5 year olds?

Why is it so hard to accept a sub series for Classia era and another for Adventure/Modern?

That is the only way I want Sonic to emulate Mario: Have a different sub series for fans of particular interests so we don’t keep fighting for territory all the time.