Why don't you take Sonic seriously?

[Tara]

11 minutes ago, NegaMetallix said:

While I do agree with this, there's something about those examples that I think is worth noting.

As you said, 80's TMNT existing doesn't prevent other, darker versions from existing later on. Much in the same way that the original Image Comics TMNT didn't stop the lighter 80's version from existing. However, each continuity was also not only separate from one another, but also generally consistent with their individual tones. For example, 60's Batman never became similar in tone to something like The Killing Joke, as it wouldn't really work for that particular interpretation of Batman.

With Sonic, however, I don't think it's as simple. Sure, the game series also has its own alternate interpretations/continuities, in the form of various comics and TV shows. But they're all distinctly seperate continuities from the games (some more so than others) and often keep a general consistency in their individual tones. The games themselves, on the other hand, aren't as simple. Post-Sonic Adventure, I'd argue that the tone of the series became something of a mess, with some games trying to be dark and serious, others being lighthearted and comical, and then there were a few that went somewhere down the middle.

And yet, all these inconsistent, flip-flopping tones were seemingly being presented as one singular continuity. A continuity where one day, a cartoon hedgehog is cursing, shooting people with guns, and stopping ugly aliens from devouring the world... and then later, another cartoon hedgehog is quipping joke after joke while rescuing cute little aliens from a goofy fat scientist. There's no consistency! And that makes it almost impossible for me, to be able to say what the game series' tone even is anymore!

I suppose what I'm trying to say is... I wouldn't mind future Sonic games having a different tone from the classics (and heck, thanks to Forces, they now have the excuse of Modern Sonic being a separate incarnation from the original). But I think they need to pick a general tone for the series going forward, and stick with it. No drastically changing it every two games. Wanna make Modern Sonic a series filled with epic adventures, and a dose of drama? I'm fine with that, but keep it consistent.

...Er, this came out a lot longer than I thought it would. Anyway, I hope I could get my viewpoint across.

Can't speak for TMNT, but The Killing Joke absolutely does treat 60's Batman as though it were also canon.  There's a scene where Bruce is looking over the Joker's past crimes on the computer, which are direct references to the silly 60's comics.

But I do agree with keeping a consistent tonalty rather than flip flopping every so often.  It's mostly that I don't think "this is how it is currently" or "this is how it was originally" are particularly good excuses for why one direction is inherently better or more correct.

[NegaMix]

1 hour ago, Tara said:

Can't speak for TMNT, but The Killing Joke absolutely does treat 60's Batman as though it were also canon.  There's a scene where Bruce is looking over the Joker's past crimes on the computer, which are direct references to the silly 60's comics.

But I do agree with keeping a consistent tonalty rather than flip flopping every so often.  It's mostly that I don't think "this is how it is currently" or "this is how it was originally" are particularly good excuses for why one direction is inherently better or more correct.

Ah, okay. My mistake on the Batman thing, then. And I'll agree with your latter point.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I would like to note that different games having different tones isn't always bad; Sonic's tonal shifts are just too drastic and don't have a really clear purpose in-universe or in terms of continuity, leading to a wildly inconsistent feel. It doesn't help that Sonic games are inconsistent in almost every other way as well, from gameplay to setting to chatacterizations to canon to overall quality.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Really, lots of games, shows, and films change tones, often more drastically than Sonic. The original Teen Titans, for example, (and also because fuck Go!) often did it in the same episode with no problems. Killer Moth threatening the city with mutated moths and demanding the city surrender is a pretty tense moment...only for him to then demand Robin go to prom with his daughter Kitten, and Starfire mistaking that for a duel and bitchslapping Kitten through the monitor is hella inconsistent, but folks are more likely to laugh as intended than have an issue with the inconsistency.

Movies like Lion King, or for a more modern example Zootopia, could have silly moments within dark tones of say Timon dressing in drag and doing the hula to distract hyenas in a barren and almost lifeless Pride Lands, or Judy trying to catch a slippery weasel in a silly chase scene before encountering a drug-induced deranged panther out to kill her and her partner as if they were in a slasher film.

I don’t think I need to browbeat folks for the millionth time about writing competency (although given how often that seems to be ignored whenever this is brought up often makes it a given), but there’s a flow to this that makes these juxtapositions work despite them being inconsistent.