Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, G-Force said:

The thing is, even if we all unanimously agreed that Iizuka is a big part of the problem and needs to be repositioned, or whatever, there isn't really a better person to put in his place.  We don't have anyone that we can point to and say, "they'll get it right."  The only person that really stands out to me as being in any way fit for the role is Yuji Naka, but he bailed quite a while ago.

I don't know... I have a lot of faith in Whitehead and Webber!

Imagine if they both took over Sonic Team as partners while Iizuka started bringing back old IP's for SEGA...

That sounds REALLY d@$n good to me.

[molul]

19 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't know... I have a lot of faith in Whitehead and Webber!

Imagine if they both took over Sonic Team as partners while Iizuka started bringing back old IP's for SEGA...

That sounds REALLY d@$n good to me.

Not sure if I'd like a Ristar (for instance) sequel made by him.

[G-Force]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't know... I have a lot of faith in Whitehead and Webber!

Imagine if they both took over Sonic Team as partners while Iizuka started bringing back old IP's for SEGA...

That sounds REALLY d@$n good to me.

I trust Whitehead when it comes to 2D sidescrolling Sonic, and I'm sure he could evolve that style of play if given the chance, but I don't want the Sonic series to be nothing but that, I want there to be 3D platforming as well, and I have no idea what Whitehead is capable of outside of his established 2D Sonic wheelhouse.  Similarly, Webber's good at community related stuff, but I don't know what he's capable of in terms of game design.

3D Sonic games have never had a truly reliable core gameplay structure to build off of, so "fixing" the series as a whole would basically require building those core elements almost from scratch.  To achieve that, the Sonic series needs to be run by someone who has a strong grasp of game design in general, a solid understanding of what Sonic games should be, and a clear vision of how to evolve, expand, and just generally bring innovation to the series.

[Chris Knopps]

4 minutes ago, G-Force said:

I trust Whitehead when it comes to 2D sidescrolling Sonic, and I'm sure he could evolve that style of play if given the chance, but I don't want the Sonic series to be nothing but that, I want there to be 3D platforming as well, and I have no idea what Whitehead is capable of outside of his established 2D Sonic wheelhouse.  Similarly, Webber's good at community related stuff, but I don't know what he's capable of in terms of game design.

3D Sonic games have never had a truly reliable core gameplay structure to build off of, so "fixing" the series as a whole would basically require building those core elements almost from scratch.  To achieve that, the Sonic series needs to be run by someone who has a strong grasp of game design in general, a solid understanding of what Sonic games should be, and a clear vision of how to evolve, expand, and just generally bring innovation to the series.

I think the best option is to retire 3D for a few years. Not permanently, but just focus on rebuilding Sonic as a 2D franchise again, and THEN move onto 3D again after some time has passed and they've had several years to go through all their ideas, rethink what did and didn't work, how and why it worked and how and why what didn't work, stuff like that.

Essentially give us the modern, more open-world take of Adventure while finding a way to implement the mach-speed type stuff that began back in Advance/06 into the world. Utopia is a good example to research for starters, but that has been point out more than enough.

A vacation from 3D while 2D rises back up to the top then BANG there's 3D back in an all new, better way.

[Blue Wisp]

32 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I don't know... I have a lot of faith in Whitehead and Webber!

Imagine if they both took over Sonic Team as partners while Iizuka started bringing back old IP's for SEGA...

That sounds REALLY d@$n good to me.

But... But Taxman is the programmer and Webber is the head of social media. What would they know of being the head of Sonic Team? 

Don't tell me "Iizuka doesn't know how to direct a game" either because that's not what I'm talking about. And I'm not saying Taxman and Webber don't know shit about anything, I know they're really skilled at what they do, but I can't see them heading Sonic Team. I'm speculating but I would guess that it's a whole different world to lead an important and longstanding group as Sonic Team than developing the games themselves and helping in the social media aspect. It'd be stressing as fuck. 

 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

But... But Taxman is the programmer and Webber is the head of social media. What would they know of being the head of Sonic Team? 

Don't tell me "Iizuka doesn't know how to direct a game" either because that's not what I'm talking about. And I'm not saying Taxman and Webber don't know shit about anything, I know they're really skilled at what they do, but I can't see them heading Sonic Team. I'm speculating but I would guess that it's a whole different world to lead an important and longstanding group as Sonic Team than developing the games and helping in the social media aspect. It'd be stressing as fuck. 

 

Some careers you learn and garner experience from through taking the job. Starting out as freshmen essentially doesn't mean they would be terrible at it, rather it would just be a challenge. But take Taxman's programming savvy with Webber's intimate understanding of worldwide consumer demands for the franchise and there is a partnership BUILT for explosions, and in the best of ways.

In short, you never know unless you try. Stress is part of any job. Risk is as well. It's all a matter of...

Are you willing to take that leap to the next stone in the river...?

[TargetWatch]

4 minutes ago, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

But... But Taxman is the programmer and Webber is the head of social media. What would they know of being the head of Sonic Team? 

Don't tell me "Iizuka doesn't know how to direct a game" either because that's not what I'm talking about. And I'm not saying Taxman and Webber don't know shit about anything, I know they're really skilled at what they do, but I can't see them heading Sonic Team. I'm speculating but I would guess that it's a whole different world to lead an important and longstanding group as Sonic Team than developing the games themselves and helping in the social media aspect. It'd be stressing as fuck. 

 

So, Y2K AKA Yuji Naka was the programmer of the original games and he became the lead producer and CEO of Sonic Team up until Sonic 06.

[Blue Wisp]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

But take Taxman's programming savvy with Webber's intimate understanding of worldwide consumer demands for the franchise and there is a partnership BUILT for explosions, and in the best of ways

I'd argue there's something more you're missing. Budget and costs, handling the budget of a triple A game like a modern Sonic game must cost quite a hefty price. Make a wrong decision and you might end up getting Sonic Team broke. 

I don't know, it's easy for people like us to speculate on stuff but we have no clue how things work inside Sonic Team and SEGA. Things could be different.   

[gato]

Sorry if I'm being off topic but I didn't want to spoil people in the status and I don't know where else to comment, just wanted to say that people are starting to upload music rips. Just if you feel like listening to something.

And god damn the Metal Sonic bossfight theme is amazing.

[Dr. Detective]

Even when everyone's loving a Sonic game, I can't feel happy. Growing up a 3D fan is the worst feeling in the world right now.  I do sometimes wonder what it must be like to be the gaming community's equivalent of being normal.

[Chris Knopps]

Wanted to say, love your avatar @Hard-Boiled Wisp.

I also agree. We'd have no idea but it would be nice to see how it could turn out if it happened.

[TargetWatch]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Even when everyone's loving a Sonic game, I can't feel happy. Growing up a 3D fan is the worst feeling in the world right now.  I do sometimes wonder what it must be like to be the gaming community's equivalent of being normal.

Don't worry old chum our time will come. Especially after this whole nostalgia trip blows up in Sonic Team's face. Plus, people are already getting disheartened by the fact there's going to barely any 3D in Sonic Forces, which will begin to make the boost look unfavorable in its current stance. This is why Sonic Team tried to change it up a bit with Lost World, they knew this kind of back-lash would arise. Now they'll see it in full force. Sonic Forces won't flop, but I've a feeling it'll most certainly won't be viewed favorably.

[Blue Wisp]

21 minutes ago, gato said:

Sorry if I'm being off topic but I didn't want to spoil people in the status and I don't know where else to comment, just wanted to say that people are starting to upload music rips. Just if you feel like listening to something.

And god damn the Metal Sonic bossfight theme is amazing.

Link hermano. I need that shit inside of me. 

Tee Lopes give me strength. 

[Dr. Detective]

6 minutes ago, TargetWatch said:

Don't worry old chum our time will come. Especially after this whole nostalgia trip blows up in Sonic Team's face. Plus, people are already getting disheartened by the fact there's going to barely any 3D in Sonic Forces, which will begin to make the boost look unfavorable in its current stance. This is why Sonic Team tried to change it up a bit with Lost World, they knew this kind of back-lash would arise. Now they'll see it in full force. Sonic Forces won't flop, but I've a feeling it'll most certainly won't be viewed unfavorably.

I want to be positive but I'm just a big sad sack. I want both sides of the Sonic series to be good and for them to eventually both earn the right to be celebrated. However some of the headlines and comments I've seen about Mania with regards to how the series should be going forward just makes me feel sad. Not to mention worried considering how kneejerk Sega's reaction to success is.

I'm so down I didn't even realize I was listening to Infinite's theme right now. That's kinda scary.

[TargetWatch]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I want to be positive but I'm just a big sad sack. I want both sides of the Sonic series to be good and for them to eventually both earn the right to be celebrated. However some of the headlines and comments I've seen about Mania with regards to how the series should be going forward just makes me feel sad. Not to mention worried considering how kneejerk Sega's reaction to success is.

I'm so down I didn't even realize I was listening to Infinite's theme right now. That's kinda scary.

Put it this way if Sonic Team don't change any time fast then this series will head for eventual collapse.

[Celestia]

Eh, it's not as if they weren't already focusing on 2D starting with Unleashed/Colours. Lost World had a few entirely 2D acts and that wasn't even a boost game. I think the most realistic outcome here is that sort of thing continuing, regardless of what ST does with the core gameplay.

I could maybe see 3D in Sonic going on complete hiatus, but we'd see it again eventually. There's a decent amount of demand for 3D platformers these days after all.

[Remy]

Wow I'm really surprised there's not a single Sonic Mania spoiler in here.

 

Here's one- you can light the oil on fire in oil ocean zone and it's SCARY.

 

Also the mirage saloon guy turns into Fang, Bean and Bark

[Ratcicle King]

So, soundtrack rips are coming and

 

Am I the only one who can hear Stardust Speedway Bad Future US here? They managed to mix both tracks into one flawlessly

[TargetWatch]

6 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Eh, it's not as if they weren't already focusing on 2D starting with Unleashed/Colours. Lost World had a few entirely 2D acts and that wasn't even a boost game. I think the most realistic outcome here is that sort of thing continuing, regardless of what ST does with the core gameplay.

I could maybe see 3D in Sonic going on complete hiatus, but we'd see it again eventually. There's a decent amount of demand for 3D platformers these days after all.

The problems stem from them attempting to merge everyone to like one game. It's never going to work if the game doesn't play to the strengths of a single perspective. Eventually even the most hardcore of fanboys will come to realise this and why it's a problem for the series going forward.

[Chris Knopps]

21 minutes ago, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

I need that shit inside of me

Tee Lopes

I'm so sorry. I really am.

[McGroose]

I've been waiting for a clean rip of this track ever since I first heard it during the Green Hill boss. This is my new favorite Sonic Boss theme ever.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, McGroose said:

I've been waiting for a clean rip of this track ever since I first heard it during the Green Hill boss. This is my new favorite Sonic Boss theme ever.

I dunno...

Mine is still Doomsday Zone, it's just SO epic.

[Zippo]

So Mirage Saloon Act 1 for Knuckles is a completely different stage?

[Blue Wisp]

23 minutes ago, McGroose said:

I've been waiting for a clean rip of this track ever since I first heard it during the Green Hill boss. This is my new favorite Sonic Boss theme ever.

This is THE SHIT that after 9 years in development it was worth the weight. 

I love you Tee Lopes and Falk please work in another Sonic game.

[expansivelovestories]

54 minutes ago, Zippo said:

So Mirage Saloon Act 1 for Knuckles is a completely different stage?

It is; and it is quite amazing!  It has design homages to other Knuckles-only areas and their dynamics, including Angel Island and Sandopolis; and of course an entirely different music track that fits the moods.