Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

 

Because they're not. Sonic is everything Shadow isn't. The exact opposite for the most part.

Uhuh

2 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

My term was used more as an example, and not trying to use it as the end all be all as you keep making it seem like. Want another example? You can have a main character, and another character which is Lancer be the leader. The main character of the story we follow who say is brash, headstrong, maybe kinda dumb, can run into someone who is smart, focuses, level headed who leads their group. It can happen from that perspective.

What does this have to do with original topic at hand which is , shadow's the leader of the team and your " Lancer " doesn't really have any value as a premise applied to sonic.

2 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

No it's something you misunderstand, then pretend to understand, and then use it to avoid even giving any example of leadership ability by instead focusing all thought process on this term, instead of giving me good examples of Shadow leadership beyond that he exists.

I did, I even explained how leading a team is different for different people and means different things depending on the team. And then someone else mentioned how sonic himself doesn't do much leading and is still the leader of said team.

But to keep it brief. Shadow's Team consists of a Trained spy and a robot who's good at a thing and does that thing, they generally don't need a lot of direction because they have job's and they know what the fuck their jobs are. Shadow's place as the leader of the team is because he makes the hard decisions, and actively tries to keep everyone safe despite harm to his person. He trusts the other two to do their jobs , often time him going out of his way to face the threat not because he's trying to be the coolest or the strongest... because he's trying to solve a problem as quickly as possible. So the other teams can do their jobs.

I can give you specific examples from the games and the comics if you want. But you will probably just ignore that again to somehow justify how because this version of leadership doesn't fall under the version of leadership you have going in your head its bad

[Kuzu]

Think your point would get across more if you bothered to post the term's origin dbzfan

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLancer

 

[Red Hot Jack]

Can we open a different thread for Shadow and leave this for the comics?

[dbzfan7]

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Uhuh

What does this have to do with original topic at hand which is , shadow's the leader of the team and your " Lancer " doesn't really have any value as a premise applied to sonic.

I did, I even explained how leading a team is different for different people and means different things depending on the team. And then someone else mentioned how sonic himself doesn't do much leading and is still the leader of said team.

But to keep it brief. Shadow's Team consists of a Trained spy and a robot who's good at a thing and does that thing, they generally don't need a lot of direction because they have job's and they know what the fuck their jobs are. Shadow's place as the leader of the team is because he makes the hard decisions, and actively tries to keep everyone safe despite harm to his person. He trusts the other two to do their jobs , often time him going out of his way to face the threat not because he's trying to be the coolest or the strongest... because he's trying to solve a problem as quickly as possible. So the other teams can do their jobs.

I can give you specific examples from the games and the comics if you want. But you will probably just ignore that again to somehow justify how because this version of leadership doesn't fall under the version of leadership you have going in your head its bad

JFC it's to show his anti leadership qualities. That was the point. That was the whole point, because he shows off so many of those. Fills like maybe at best 3 of like 10 or 12 qualifications. That's why I brought it up. Because he shows more qualities that make him not a leader than being one.

Hard decisions like when to go out and jump into action on his own, when to disregard a plan and then fuck everything up by doing his own thing, and then disappear to avoid any sort of repercussion. And that's just from the comic alone. The truly amazing leadership skills.

Naw that's your specialty, like trying to understand terms and then getting them wrong so clearly, then denying you got them wrong when you did.

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Think your point would get across more if you bothered to post the term's origin dbzfan

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLancer

 

That does help.

7 minutes ago, Jack in the Snow said:

Can we open a different thread for Shadow and leave this for the comics?

Hopefully this helps

 

[Sonic Fan J]

On the whole lancer trope, I think it was cool learning a term I was totally unfamiliar with but if you go by the definition it actually isn't a good argument for a character not making a good leader (comically though TV Tropes actually considers Shadow Roughe's lancer so there's that) as Yuri and Flynn of Tales of Vesperia are both sound leaders but could be considered lancers to each other since Flynn is the typically protagonist but Yuri is the game's protagonist. So cool information to pick up, but even the definition itself says that the lancer can be a good leader, especially in the protagonist's/leader's absence. So while opposite personality traits makes a character a lancer, it does not mean they can not be a good leader. That would require playing the trope completely to it's extremes and having no nuance which would just be shallow writing.

16 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Finitevus was mutated into something of an Anti-Guardian due to his Chaos Syphon Suit malfunctioning with Chaos Knuckles. This led to him acquiring enhanced durability & strength(though he seldom used the later) and corrupted Chaos affinity, as well as a warped perception of what's wrong with the world where the Echidnas are concerned.

To him, the Echidna's problems came down to the fact that they were so obsessed with their different belief systems and relied too much on faith to solve them, instead causing more problems. And the best way to fix things is to wipe out much of the world and let things start anew.

And as both a scientist and a former Technomage for the Dark Legion, he was interested in studying, acquiring, and maintaining various sources of power(the Master Emerald) and technology(Ivan Kintobor's nukes). Partly to gain knowledge for it's own sake and partly to eventually use that knowledge to achieve his goals.

Interestingly, when it came to interacting with others, he tended to be a little backwards--being somewhat condescendingly cordial to enemies and terse with his allies. Granted, that last one could partly be because most of his allies are run of the mill criminals like Scourge and Rouge. But yes, he was someone who preferred enlisting help from base individuals such as them to aid him in accomplishing his goals by doing entry level dirty work.

Thanks for summarizing him up for me, that helps a lot and makes it easier for me to see the comparison between him and Finitevus. Of course it also now makes me more and more curious about his own ambitions and goals. Kind of a shame that it requires being more familiar with another character though to get me interested in Starline. Oh well, that seems to be a problem that the book is having in general for me is weak to bad first impressions. Fortunately things typically seem to improve for me the longer I stick with it. It's kind of like the 3-Episode Rule with anime I guess, though in this case it's on a character appearance basis (I guess that mean's I've got to give Shadow one last chance to entertain me before I give up on him being entertaining in IDW ).

[dbzfan7]

7 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

On the whole lancer trope, I think it was cool learning a term I was totally unfamiliar with but if you go by the definition it actually isn't a good argument for a character not making a good leader (comically though TV Tropes actually considers Shadow Roughe's lancer so there's that) as Yuri and Flynn of Tales of Vesperia are both sound leaders but could be considered lancers to each other since Flynn is the typically protagonist but Yuri is the game's protagonist. So cool information to pick up, but even the definition itself says that the lancer can be a good leader, especially in the protagonist's/leader's absence. So while opposite personality traits makes a character a lancer, it does not mean they can not be a good leader. That would require playing the trope completely to it's extremes and having no nuance which would just be shallow writing.

Well I did say it doesn't exclude one from being a leader, just that they typically have quirks that are quite against it. I did say you can have your protag be a follower, and the lancer be the leader. That does exist. It was more as a tool to point out anti authoritative traits than the end all be all. But I do really appreciate the input.

An interesting example is Wes being the main character in Power Rangers Time Force, but Jen is his Lancer and the leader of the team.

[DabigRG]

26 minutes ago, Jack in the Snow said:

Can we open a different thread for Shadow and leave this for the comics?

Yes, please. For FOQZ sake, get it out of the way.

[dbzfan7]

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Yes, please. For FOQZ sake, get it out of the way.

YOOOWHOOOOOOO OVER HERE HANDSOME!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Celestia]

Well. This has certainly been a good example of why using tvtropes terms that haven't actually become standardized is maybe a bad idea.

So now that y'all have literally made a separate topic for the latest one, are we done with terrible Shadow arguments that barely have anything to do with the comic book now?

[dbzfan7]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Well. This has certainly been a good example of why using tvtropes terms that haven't actually become standardized is maybe a bad idea.

So now that y'all have literally made a separate topic for the latest one, are we done with terrible Shadow arguments that barely have anything to do with the comic book now?

I'm pretty sure it's gone past that. I see the term in the same vein as main character, rival, etc. Maybe I'm wrong.

From previous experience...it will be back....or maybe we can start an Amy one. What do you think 

[Kuzu]

5 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Well. This has certainly been a good example of why using tvtropes terms that haven't actually become standardized is maybe a bad idea.

So now that y'all have literally made a separate topic for the latest one, are we done with terrible Shadow arguments that barely have anything to do with the comic book now?

So let's talk about the next time Shadow will appear in the comic...

[Ryannumber1gamer]

4 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Well. This has certainly been a good example of why using tvtropes terms that haven't actually become standardized is maybe a bad idea.

So now that y'all have literally made a separate topic for the latest one, are we done with terrible Shadow arguments that barely have anything to do with the comic book now?

Hopefully - yes.

Truthfully - we'll probably be back here again come Issue 13.

[DabigRG]

12 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

On the whole lancer trope, I think it was cool learning a term I was totally unfamiliar with but if you go by the definition it actually isn't a good argument for a character not making a good leader (comically though TV Tropes actually considers Shadow Roughe's lancer so there's that)

 

Ch'yeah.  

22 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 

Thanks for summarizing him up for me, that helps a lot and makes it easier for me to see the comparison between him and Finitevus. Of course it also now makes me more and more curious about his own ambitions and goals. Kind of a shame that it requires being more familiar with another character though to get me interested in Starline. Oh well, that seems to be a problem that the book is having in general for me is weak to bad first impressions. 

You're welcome, luv.

 

Eh, not really? Like even without that visual comparison, there's still a little of interdependent and/or outside context for getting some vibes from Starline. Be it his interest in restoring Eggman, to stating he's practically made his career from studying him, to his methods of accomplishing that goal thus far, to the mystery regarding what could be affecting Silver's future, there's a little bit of intrigue and speculation that can be had around him.

Characters don't really exist in a vacuum, though it'd help for them to be able to if briefly necessary.

16 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

YOOOWHOOOOOOO OVER HERE HANDSOME!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ah, thanks! Now I can stay the freak away from it!

10 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

 

From previous experience...it will be back....or maybe we can start an Amy one. What do you think 

Kaaay...um, what about her?

[Celestia]

Just now, dbzfan7 said:

From previous experience...it will be back....or maybe we can start an Amy one. What do you think 

I think Amy should have a hyperrealistic gun instead of a hammer. If Ian Flynn doesn't do this then I'll lose faith in him.

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So let's talk about the next time Shadow will appear in the comic...

At this rate there's probably going to be an unannounced Shadow story in the annual that has something controversial happen, lol.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, Celestia said:

I think Amy should have a hyperrealistic gun instead of a hammer. If Ian Flynn doesn't do this then I'll lose faith in him.

" You can't outrun me with a gunshot wound sonic "

1 minute ago, Celestia said:

At this rate there's probably going to be an unannounced Shadow story in the annual that has something controversial happen, lol.

Shadow says that he likes pinapple on pizza

[Sonic Fan J]

12 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

or maybe we can start an Amy one.

Please let's not, Flynn has been keeping her enjoyable and I like her too much to be able to back off like I can with Shadow.

13 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So let's talk about the next time Shadow will appear in the comic...

He's not even slated to appear yet in Year 2 and was only mentioned a couple of times in issue 12 so lets let him enjoy his vacation for a bit please.

5 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Eh, not really? Like even without that visual comparison, there's still a little of interdependent and/or outside context for getting some vibes from Starline. Be it his interest in restoring Eggman, to stating he's practically made his career from studying him, to his methods of accomplishing that goal thus far, to the mystery regarding what could be affecting Silver's future, there's a little bit of intrigue and speculation that can be had around him.

Characters don't really exist in a vacuum, though it'd help for them to be able to if briefly necessary.

I guess in my case with Starline is just that the delivery hasn't done it for me. As you say, there is a lot of intrigue with him, but I just found myself caring so far while reading. Not that he has failed completely to entertain me as I love his exchange with Eggman after Rough and Tumble introduce themselves, but otherwise he hasn't gripped me yet so the plot points affiliated with him haven't either. I'm hoping his first meeting with Sonic will change all of that for me so I'm looking forward to that meeting at least.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Tbh, if Shadow doesn't come back rockin' a Hawaiian shirt, a pair of sunglasses, and making finger guns towards everyone when he's leaving the scene, what's even the point? 

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Tbh, if Shadow doesn't come back rockin' a Hawaiian shirt, a pair of sunglasses, and making finger guns towards everyone when he's leaving the scene, what's even the point? 

I like to belive that when shadow dissapeared from forces.

He went on a rocking island vacation where saved the islands community center by beating the rich kids at a surfing competition

[Fire-N-Space]

1 hour ago, dbzfan7 said:

From previous experience...it will be back....or maybe we can start an Amy one. What do you think 

Don't do that the Amy ones always have people going up against one person over a opinion on something.

[PublicEnemy1]

1 hour ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Don't do that the Amy ones always have people going up against one person over a opinion on something.

I dunno... I'd say it'd be a perfect topic for you to make since you always talk about how Amy isn't "always after Sonic" and bring her up almost every time you're here. That way, you can debate with others about it without causing a huge argument in the main topic like @Dash Speed and others like to do from time to time.

[SBR2]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

" You can't outrun me with a gunshot wound sonic "

I've been rewatching Red vs Blue and this sounds for all the world like something from one of their PSA's. XD

Anyway...how 'bout those IDW Sonic comics. They're pretty fun. Pacing kind of a problem I'll admit but I enjoy them more often than not. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

46 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I've been rewatching Red vs Blue and this sounds for all the world like something from one of their PSA's. XD

Anyway...how 'bout those IDW Sonic comics. They're pretty fun. Pacing kind of a problem I'll admit but I enjoy them more often than not. 

That's a nice idea for a subject: what you think IDW does right/better than Archie?

I just re-read Year One and I'll say this: they're much better when you're keeping your expectation's low. (or in this case: just know what to expect)

Also, every art easily trumps Archie. Issue 3 aside it always ranges from "good" to "sooooooo gooood". (I'm just hoping panel count isn't suffering too much from it.)

And I know that some still miss Freedom Fighters, but we can't go a single issue without someone doing something really cool or adorable and I can't make that claim about Sally and her pack.

[Forte-Metallix]

I actually appreciate the more episodic approach IDW's going with. I enjoyed Archie's overarching plot with Unleashed and all, but it's refreshing to be able to pick up any issue and just enjoy it on its own merits. Reportedly, IDW's gonna have a lot less focus on lore and more on action and characters, and that's fine by me.

And while I'm gonna miss the Freedom Fighters, it's nice to see Sonic meeting up with different people every adventure instead of being tied to a specific group. (So glad Knuckles finally  ended the Resistance) Everyone has their time to shine without stealing the spotlight from Sonic- or vice versa. Tails is the biggest example, finally being able to fight again instead of cowering or making smartass remarks. (His ramming the battleship into Metal was the hypest thing ever, I don't care)

And speaking of characters, I'm really enjoying the new faces- Whisper's adorable and has a cool weapon, Tangle's hilariously dorky, and Rough and Tumble have grown into my new favorite Eggman lacky duo. They're tryhards, but with just the right amount of self-awareness in how they're written. (Infinite would've been far more entertaining if others actually played off his "Ow the Edge" demeanor)

So while IDW is clearly in a different boat than Archie, that's okay. I'm just gonna enjoy both instead of comparing apples to oranges.

Also, I'm gonna call something right now:

Spoiler

Since Eggman now has all seven Chaos Emeralds, Super Sonic will debut in Issue 25. It just seems too logical.

 

[Shadowlax]

Art

Like that the characters that get focused on I actually care about

Character designs for non game folks

[DaddlerTheDalek]

3 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Tbh, if Shadow doesn't come back rockin' a Hawaiian shirt, a pair of sunglasses, and making finger guns towards everyone when he's leaving the scene, what's even the point? 

Good old margarita drinking Fake Sonic Boom Shadow.

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