SATAM vs AOSTH

[Tornado]

Even ignoring that AoStH was the only one that was vaguely related to the games proper in style (albeit it exaggerated greatly), I could go over a long list of things that AoStH did right that no other Sonic production ever did; but quite frankly all that needs to be shown is this:

Edited August 8, 2009 by Tornado

[Blazey Firekitty]

I admittedly haven't seen all of SatAM yet, but from what I have seen, I feel like part of the problem with SatAM is that it was basically Sonic running around with a bunch of girls.

In other words, if you were Sally, Bunnie, or Dulcy, you got to fight with Sonic and look cool. If you were Ant, Tails, or Rotor, you were either comic relief, the cute kid, or a walking item rack who was stuck in the lab.

That being said, comparing SatAM to Adventures is like comparing chocolate to vanilla to me. I like both for different reasons. I do feel that Adventures was a bit over the top, and that SatAM was somewhat pretentious, but don't think that the problems with either are as bad as their online reputations make them out to me.

[BlazingTales]

I admittedly haven't seen all of SatAM yet, but from what I have seen, I feel like part of the problem with SatAM is that it was basically Sonic running around with a bunch of girls.

In other words, if you were Sally, Bunnie, or Dulcy, you got to fight with Sonic and look cool. If you were Ant, Tails, or Rotor, you were either comic relief, the cute kid, or a walking item rack who was stuck in the lab.

That being said, comparing SatAM to Adventures is like comparing chocolate to vanilla to me. I like both for different reasons. I do feel that Adventures was a bit over the top, and that SatAM was somewhat pretentious, but don't think that the problems with either are as bad as their online reputations make them out to me.

Very well put. That's the problem with the show. The only characters who trully shine were Sonic and Sally (and to a lesser extent the other girls). Rotor and Tails had so much potential, but they were completely shunned.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Very well put. That's the problem with the show. The only characters who trully shine were Sonic and Sally (and to a lesser extent the other girls). Rotor and Tails had so much potential, but they were completely shunned.

Yeah, it's a shame, because while Rotor and Tails were written pretty well in terms of personality, they were rarely allowed to do anything.

The show generally did okay trying to show Sonic and pals as a surrogate family, but it didn't do very well in terms of showing all the protagonists making an equal team effort.

[Future]

I like SATAM way better than AOSTH. SATAM just has a darker sense and I enjoy that. I mean don't get me wrong I like comedy and AOSTH, but I dislike slapstick humor. It just annoys me. I know AOSTH is slapstick and it is the only cartoon I enjoy that is slapstick.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I kinda feel like people exaggerate how dark SatAM was, though. I mean, it certainly was dark, what with the slavery and orphaned kids fighting a war against impossible odds.

But a lot of SatAM was about bringing light out of the darkness. The good guys didn't always win on that show, but there was always at least the sense that Tomorrow was Another Day. There was always at least some sense of hope.

[Mega]

In SATAM I rarely saw sonic acting.... well Sonic just like in his games, but in AOSTH he was always "SONIC the blue blur".

Sonic had no personality in the games, really, at the time. It's pointless to compare him to his game counterpart the way he is now, as there was no canon dialogue to work with.

But I love SatAM a million times more. The plot, the characters, the art, and Sonic's characterization above all else appeals to me. My favorite version of Sonic PERIOD.

AoStH is too random, poor animation, and just...I can't even sit through a whole episode. +_+;

EDIT:

But a lot of SatAM was about bringing light out of the darkness. The good guys didn't always win on that show, but there was always at least the sense that Tomorrow was Another Day. There was always at least some sense of hope.

THIS. Seriously, SatAM isn't even that dark. Darker than AoStH, yes, but nowhere near as dark as, say, SA2 or...ugh, ShtH.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Mega

[Joseppi]

I didn't like Antoine's face. It bugged me.

Hahahaha! I thought I was the only person that felt that way.

Another thing I didn't like about SatAM was the fact that Sonic always had to wear that damn backpack.

Edited August 8, 2009 by Joseppi

[Flyboy Fox]

Yeah, it's a shame, because while Rotor and Tails were written pretty well in terms of personality

I dunno... Rote was cool, but did Tails even have a personality beyond 'cute and babyish'? ^^; He's probably my least favourite of the cast in that show. Not because I actively dislike him, but just because there was nothing redeeming about him and he just didn't DO anything. Ironically, he was older in that show than his canon game age...

[Blazey Firekitty]

I dunno... Rote was cool, but did Tails even have a personality beyond 'cute and babyish'? ^^; He's probably my least favourite of the cast in that show. Not because I actively dislike him, but just because there was nothing redeeming about him and he just didn't DO anything. Ironically, he was older in that show than his canon game age...

Looking back, Tails probably wasn't as well written as I remembered him. But I did feel like they intend him to be at least something of a "wise beyond his years" character even if they botched the execution.

Mainly I'm thinking of the way he's the only one who notices that "Sally" is a robot duplicate while all the older characters are oblivious.

[KururuSouchou]

I definitely prefer AoStH. The animation was awful, yes, but it was just so goofy and silly! It felt a lot closer to the games than SatAM's gloomier outlook. Plus, there's another reason: YouTube Poop (Snooping as usual, I see?).

To me, SatAM was just unnecessarily gloomy. As opposed to the over-the-top flamboyant Robotnik of AoStH, SatAM Robotnik to me felt like the generic "rawr I'm evil and the world will be mine" villain of so many TV shows. That, and with so many exclusive characters, most of whom (i.e. everyone except Rotor) were kind of obnoxious to me, you really could have just replaced Sonic and Tails with original anthropomorphic critters and the show would be practically unchanged.

Overall, while SatAM was a lot higher-quality in terms of animation, AoStH was a lot more enjoyable for me.

[BlazingTales]

I dunno... Rote was cool, but did Tails even have a personality beyond 'cute and babyish'? ^^; He's probably my least favourite of the cast in that show. Not because I actively dislike him, but just because there was nothing redeeming about him and he just didn't DO anything. Ironically, he was older in that show than his canon game age...

I think he was pretty OK, at least in season one and definately the pilot episode. Tails didn't really have a huge personality in Sonic 2. ALl we knew was that he was a cute fox kid who looked up to Sonic, and that's what he did in SATAM. What I liked about the pilot is that he actually TRIED to be useful, going off alone, picking flowers for Sally, helping Sonic get a power ring, even going to the city with Sonic... He acted like a little kid trying to do everything he could to help the Freedom Fighters, even though he was too young. I also loved how adorable he was in that episode ("Hi mom!" "Sonic, I have to go to the bathroom... REAL BAD.").

[Tornado]

Sonic had no personality in the games, really, at the time. It's pointless to compare him to his game counterpart the way he is now, as there was no canon dialogue to work with.

What are you talking about? Sonic's personality was one of the defining features of the franchise. It was Sonic's personality and its derived popularity that directly led to the dozens of copycat "Animal with attitude" platformers that swamped shelves all the way through 1996.

I kinda feel like people exaggerate how dark SatAM was, though. I mean, it certainly was dark, what with the slavery and orphaned kids fighting a war against impossible odds.

THIS. Seriously, SatAM isn't even that dark. Darker than AoStH, yes, but nowhere near as dark as, say, SA2 or...ugh, ShtH.

It was a show based on fighting an oppressive dictatorship that rules through terror and slavery. Its like 1984 with cartoon animals and some Blade Runner thrown in for good measure. Sounds pretty damn dark to me considering it was based on a game series that was essentially "run through the loops of happiness" at the time.

[Blazey Firekitty]

I guess I should have been more clear: I definitely do think that SatAM was dark, but not overwhelmingly so, as in "mindlessly depressing or very close to it."

[Tornado]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

[188Eternal]

To me, SatAM was just unnecessarily gloomy.

Man, you're totally neglecting the cowardly yet courageous ego of Antoine the coyote, together with his poor grammar and his French accent, and together with his flirtatious ways around Princess Sally.

Those bits were not gloomy at all, and they happened in quite a lot of the episodes.

[Eternal EX]

Scratch and Grounder(and Coconuts!) were probably some of the best characters ever. It's surprised me how no-one's mentioned them yet. (YES YOUR MALICIOUSNESS) ^^

Aah yes, the two best robots eggy every created, Scratch and grounder. Damn Eggy needs more robots like them.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. Tends to help if I make sure I'm being coherent!

[Indigo Rush]

Aah yes, the two best robots eggy every created, Scratch and grounder. Damn Eggy needs more robots like them.

Not quite the same, but at least they're trying.

[Eternal EX]

^ Yeah your right, Atleast they were trying when they created that guy.

[Tornado]

Man, you're totally neglecting the cowardly yet courageous ego of Antoine the coyote, together with his poor grammar and his French accent, and together with his flirtatious ways around Princess Sally.

Something which raises another problem with SatAM in particular...

[Flyboy Fox]

Something which raises another problem with SatAM in particular...

That problem being...?

Man, Antoine was awesome. Hilarious. Adorable ♥

[Sean]

Antoine ranks up there as one of my favorite Sonic characters (seeing as how Big is my favorite, this should come as no surprise). Amusing, cute, and he was awesome when he actually did stuff - which he never did in SatAM, but did in Archie, sometimes...

I thought his mini-episodes were ridiculously bad, though. And that one story in Archie in which Antoine transforms into an embittered war veteran who wouldn't shut up with his gritty monologues? Yeah.

[Tornado]

Everyone in the show with maybe two exceptions was a generic stereotype of sitcom proportions (ie. worse than Amy is in the games). Antione was the ungrateful wimpy Frenchman with an ego that he cannot possibly live up to, a highly original character design until minutes after WWII ended. Rotor was the behind-the-scenes mechanical genius, Tails was the annoying kid who you could tell was trying his best and thus you couldn't feel too bad for him, Sally was an American sitcom wife, Robotnik was the complete monster bad guy who was evil just because, Snively was the mistreated-yet-highly-competent underling with secret ambitions to overthrow his leader at the best opportunity, Dulcy was the completely-useless-yet-paradoxically-unfunny comic relief character, and Sonic was an unrepentant asshole (well, okay, that one is subjective ). Bunnie might be a stereotype as well, but I can't think of one as I type this.

I'm not saying these characterizations or the characters attached to them are bad by themselves (well, okay, Dulcy was awful from the start; and SatAM Robotnik has not aged well at all); but considering one of SatAM's main criticisms is that you could essentially remove the Sonic branding and absolutely nothing would change, they certainly don't help matters.

Edited August 9, 2009 by Tornado

[188Eternal]

Everyone in the show with maybe two exceptions was a generic stereotype of sitcom proportions (ie. worse than Amy is in the games). Antione was the ungrateful wimpy Frenchman with an ego that he cannot possibly live up to, a highly original character design until minutes after WWII ended. Rotor was the behind-the-scenes mechanical genius, Tails was the annoying kid who you could tell was trying his best and thus you couldn't feel too bad for him, Sally was an American sitcom wife, Robotnik was the complete monster bad guy who was evil just because, Snively was the mistreated-yet-highly-competent underling with secret ambitions to overthrow his leader at the best opportunity, Dulcy was the completely-useless-yet-paradoxically-unfunny comic relief character, and Sonic was an unrepentant asshole (well, okay, that one is subjective ). Bunnie might be a stereotype as well, but I can't think of one as I type this.

So what? Someone might as well argue that the characters from the game universe are also stereotypes...

Vector is like a reptilian version of a DJ from some underground club in Las Vegas who is always partying; Charmee Bee is like that kid from kindergarten who eats too much sugary stuff for breakfast and never calms down; Espio is like one of those disciplined dudes who trained for several years inside some Buddhist temple; and Shadow is like Wolverine but with jet shoes instead of adamantium claws.

They're all charming in their own ways even if they somewhat resemble someone else from somewhere else.

Honestly, I like Scratch the chicken equally as much as I like Antoine the coyote.

Scratch appears in the cutscenes of my Amy fangame, and I could've considered using Antoine in there as well, but unfortunately there are no spritesheets of him.