The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[Tani Coyote]

Which is funny, given they're found to lie the most of any major news network. This has been the bogeyman of the right for years: faced with an inundation of critiques about Fox News' trustworthiness (though it's worth noting none of the other networks always tell the truth), the simple defense has been to just accuse everyone else of "liberal bias."

So if Trump decided to slam Fox News as fake, that'd probably create one Hell of a mess on the right.

[nintega137]

22 minutes ago, Noelgilvie said:

Which is funny, given they're found to lie the most of any major news network. This has been the bogeyman of the right for years: faced with an inundation of critiques about Fox News' trustworthiness (though it's worth noting none of the other networks always tell the truth), the simple defense has been to just accuse everyone else of "liberal bias."

So if Trump decided to slam Fox News as fake, that'd probably create one Hell of a mess on the right.

 

There isn't already a hell of a mess?

[Patticus]

1 hour ago, Noelgilvie said:

It's a scary world where we increasingly have to decide whether we trust the media or the government more every single day. It's even scarier that we can't just handwave stuff like this by default, since Trump has given us no reason to think he's too knowledgeable in politics to threaten war so callously.

I wouldn't trust much of what news the government puts out, not with master propagandist Bannon in place as a key adviser and policymaker. Everything coming out of that place is going to be suspect to the nth degree.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

https://www.thenation.com/article/leaked-draft-of-trumps-religious-freedom-order-reveals-sweeping-plans-to-legalize-discrimination/

EDIT: Welp, American Religious Theocracy is a comin'.

[Patticus]

6 minutes ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

https://www.thenation.com/article/leaked-draft-of-trumps-religious-freedom-order-reveals-sweeping-plans-to-legalize-discrimination/

EDIT: Welp, American Religious Theocracy is a comin'.

Make America Hate Again, right Donald? This desire he and his ilk seem to have to allow the persecution of vulnerable segments of society is utterly baffling and so incredibly disturbing. Have we learned nothing from the last century?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, Patticus said:

Have we learned nothing from the last century?

That no matter what we do, there's always going to be a ton of idiots who think everyone else deserves to be treated like trash for daring to exist in the same space as their "inherently superior" asses.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This is gonna cause how much damage?

Like, damn, how far are they really gonna push until the other side starts getting extreme in return?

[KHCast]

Pretty late, but Paul Ryan surprise surprise is defending the ban and Trump. Man, he really is fucking starscream in human form. He was against the man and appalled by most of the shit Trump was promising, and now he's his lapdog standing loyally by his side as if he never opposed him. He really must be waiting for the right time to strike 

4 hours ago, Patticus said:

Make America Hate Again, right Donald? This desire he and his ilk seem to have to allow the persecution of vulnerable segments of society is utterly baffling and so incredibly disturbing. Have we learned nothing from the last century?

Right after he says he's for protecting LGBT rights, and then this bomb hits lol

[Candescence]

In other news, Trump utterly humiliated Australian PM Malcom Turnbull over an immigration deal done with the Obama administration and basically treated the guy like shit over the phone.

Australia is one of the US' closest and most reliable allies (pretty much to a fault), and yet if that's how Trump treats Turnbull, what does that saw about his decorum on the world stage with other world leaders? Jesus Christ.

Even worse, the political football here is over a thousand refugees stuck and suffering in what are basically offshore concentration camps for the mere crime of being desperate enough to not use "legal channels", which is the government's fault because our country's conversation on refugees is fucked up as well, but fucking hell, Trump, these people aren't potential terrorists, they'd actually be grateful to any decent country who'd like to take them in, considering how horribly they've been treated by the country they were trying to escape to. 

[Patticus]

So that's two leaders of allied nations that Trump has belittle and humiliated over the phone. And this guy's supposed to be a master negotiator? What a fucking joke.

[Tani Coyote]

What I love is how even Fox News is reporting on the downside of the call. The only difference between them and the other major outlets is the omission of how Trump apparently bragged about his electoral college win.

The BBC also posted an article on it, and it was the most neutral, simply pointing out Trump's issue with the deal (which is publicly verified).

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

This is gonna cause how much damage?

Like, damn, how far are they really gonna push until the other side starts getting extreme in return?

It's a bad move, but I don't think as bad as it could be. The nature of federalism means there's probably going to be a ton of legal action at the state level, and even if the federal judges side with Trump, it's going to cause tons of legal fees.

It's believed Trump's Order goes far beyond his executive authority, however, and we're likely going to see a showdown in either Congress or the Courts.

As for the other side getting extreme, we're already seeing that. Milo just had to cancel a speech at UC Berkeley because protests went violent. Now, the protest itself was peaceful and it appears 150 violent people just joined in and ruined it all, but I think it's obvious more and more people are increasingly pissed, and they're turning violent.

All these idiots are doing is discrediting the majority, who have remained peaceful. I just question how long that will last though: Dr. King's murder was enough to set off nationwide riots when his vision for peace had unified so many people beforehand. After a certain point, when protesters don't feel they're being heard, they might just turn violent.

Which Trump will use to ramp up the police state, just as Nixon did.

I don't think America's quite at the point where an armed revolution would be successful, so all violence is doing is making things harder for everyone else who's in trouble right now. Seriously, the right is eating this protest up as further evidence of how the left is the real source of violence and hate. I know we all know that's a load of horseshit, but perception is reality.

[Patticus]

38 minutes ago, Noelgilvie said:

I don't think America's quite at the point where an armed revolution would be successful, so all violence is doing is making things harder for everyone else who's in trouble right now. Seriously, the right is eating this protest up as further evidence of how the left is the real source of violence and hate. I know we all know that's a load of horseshit, but perception is reality.

Just out of curiosity - is there any point now when an armed revolution could be successful in today's America? I would imagine that it would at a minimum require the backing of several states, and at least a large part of the US military - no rebellion is going to succeed without access to the same soldiery, drones, tanks and other heavy ordnance that will be facing it.

[Tani Coyote]

3 hours ago, Patticus said:

Just out of curiosity - is there any point now when an armed revolution could be successful in today's America? I would imagine that it would at a minimum require the backing of several states, and at least a large part of the US military - no rebellion is going to succeed without access to the same soldiery, drones, tanks and other heavy ordnance that will be facing it.

More or less, yes. The government would have to became far, far, far more oppressive than the worst Trump can roll out.

It's basically why that article on how the US would become a dictatorship established that it probably would never be totalitarian. It would be more like a sovereign democracy where the central government uses intimidation to quash any real resistance, rather than trying to control literally everything. We are rolling towards that at present, with political minority protections being removed and gerrymandering effectively creating a permanent GOP majority in both chambers. Democracy is failing because it's not failing hard enough for everyone to push back. This is the exact kind of political inertia described by thinkers like John Locke.

Speaking of the military. That convoy that rolled through Louisville has been identified as belonging to the US Navy SEALs. The Navy is preparing to investigate and take disciplinary measures.

What's concerning: the fact it was SEALs. You know, the highly-trained operatives who go on assassinations sometimes.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

1 hour ago, Ogilvie said:

What's concerning: the fact it was SEALs. You know, the highly-trained operatives who go on assassinations sometimes.

Should we expect mass Democrat assassinations to entrench the Republican Regime?

[Patticus]

7 minutes ago, SenEDtor Missile said:

Should we expect mass Democrat assassinations to entrench the Republican Regime?

If they do go about carrying out political assassinations, they only need to kill the figureheads - the Sanders', the Warrens, the RBGs. Anyone who can rally the base.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, that's a great way to start Civil War II.

[Johnny Boy]

Guys, let's not give them any ideas. Seriously.

EDIT: and now Trump says he's gonna destroy the Johnson amendment, which prevents churches from engaging in political activity. So much for a separation of church and state.

[KHCast]

http://www.newnownext.com/trump-muslim-ban-lgbt-maysam-sodagari/01/2017/

 

Well isn't this just dandy. I'm sure this is happening with lots of people. But it's clearly a necessary evil needed to keep Americans *cough!whitepeople!cough!*safe. Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette after all.

Edit: http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/02/02/trump-just-removed-white-supremacist-groups-terror-watch-program/

If this ends up being true, then holy shit

[Nepenthe]

Trump removing any reference to white supremacy/right-wing nationalism from the terror watch program comes at a nice time when the FBI admitted to investigating extensive white supremacist infiltration into law enforcement that was quickly abandoned because it made white conservatives feel really uncomfortable when they found out about it.

It's amazing how much everyone else is always a threat to your well-being except the people in your own neighborhood. Then when mass shootings and shit like the Oklahoma bombings happens, people say "I don't understand how this could happen here."

[SenEDDtor Missile]

World, if you are watching this, please be ready to knock sense back into the USA. Because the crazy people have taken over the asylum and the weapons.

[Tani Coyote]

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-military-officials-trump-ordered-raid-in-yemen-that-killed-us-navy-seal-was-approved-without-sufficient-intelligence-2017-2

Presenting what would be Trump's Benghazi scandal, if the GOP weren't massive hypocrites.

"US military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support, or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced Al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger-than-expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists."

Only 1 Navy SEAL was killed, alongside 14 militants. Medics estimate 30 others, including 10 women and children, were killed. Some of the women apparently fired on the SEALs, but that's still a sizable death toll.

Trump gave a visit to the fallen SEAL's family, but let's look at the bigger picture here: it's possible some, if not most, of these deaths could have been prevented with more intelligence. Besides the possibility no SEALs would have been lost, there's also the likely damage to American PR that all the noncombatant deaths is going to cause.

All because Trump didn't want to wait a little longer. Clinton got slammed for something she reasonably couldn't have done much about, while Trump's going to get no flak for this, even though much of the carnage was preventable. Obama had signed off on targeting this area, but ultimately chose to not order an attack, feeling that the next administration should gather more intelligence first; clearly, Trump didn't care to.

Sean Spicer, meanwhile, is wrapping this up in a flag, saying that since it killed militants, it is protecting America, and all those in the military would appreciate this, and the risks that come with it. Of course, as was mentioned, what's being ignored is how this attack probably could have been pulled off with far fewer casualties.

Also, read very closely: the SEALs were extracted from the firefight. This presumably means they made a tactical retreat. This explains the relatively small death toll on the US side. More worryingly, a better-prepared force probably could have stayed and killed far more militants. Now, any who are left know we're onto them, as we've given away our element of surprise, and they've no doubt fled to somewhere more secure.

I think Trump's going to make America less safe.

[Patticus]

What are the odds that the Democrats will treat this as his Benghazi and bang the drum about it for years? Or will they simply forget it happened by the time they next have a majority in either house?

[Tani Coyote]

3 minutes ago, Patticus said:

What are the odds that the Democrats will treat this as his Benghazi and bang the drum about it for years? Or will they simply forget it happened by the time they next have a majority in either house?

Probably low, since the Democrats are too nice for their own good.

They really should call out the GOP's hypocrisy on this subject, though. It's really hard to deny the possibility that this could have been a great victory for the United States, with minimal American and civilian losses and huge losses for Al-Qaeda.

Instead, Trump's ego turned it into a humiliating retreat because he just couldn't wait a little before attacking. Even in that, Trump will not admit any wrong, focusing highly on the 14 dead militants, blissfully glossing over how many more there could have been with better planning.

The way Obama kept quiet (so quiet, a ton of people still don't know it happened) about Khorasan until American bombers were right on top of them? That's some military genius right there. Trump should take some lessons. Don't give up your element of surprise until you're absolutely positive you can do as much damage as possible to the enemy.

[Patticus]

44 minutes ago, Ogilvie said:

Probably low, since the Democrats are too nice for their own good.

They really should call out the GOP's hypocrisy on this subject, though. It's really hard to deny the possibility that this could have been a great victory for the United States, with minimal American and civilian losses and huge losses for Al-Qaeda.

The Democrats are too nice for their own good when it comes to normal Republican politicians, like Dubya - although 9/11 helped him out big time there. As far as Trump goes though, they've had their knives out for a while, and they have no reason to treat him like other Republicans. He is a uniquely toxic phenomenon in American politics, and one the Democrats view as an existential threat to all they hold dear. I have my hopes that they'll make all the hay they can with this one. When Trump, McConnell, Ryan etc bitch about it, they only need one word to retort with: Benghazi.

[CleverSonicUsername]

2 hours ago, Ogilvie said:

Trump should take some lessons. Don't give up your element of surprise until you're absolutely positive you can do as much damage as possible to the enemy.

Funny thing is, this is exactly what he bragged about being his master strategy. He kept slamming the previous administration for announcing forthcoming attacks (not realizing that there's valid reason to do so), and then the first time he's given the opportunity, he screws it all up by jumping the gun.

He's a guy who has claimed he knows more than our generals, and the first moment he has to prove it, he bungles the whole thing.