Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Hiki]

Just now, CuzEyeCan said:

I'd rather have Roger Craig Smith to continue voicing Sonic than having Ryan Drummond come back to voice him.

Just saying.

I think they should get Jason Griffith back. He got really good with Unleashed, and they changed voice actors after two more games (counting Black Knight).

[Pixel]

I don't have a strong opinion on the Sonic voice actors. Roger Craig Smith is a great voice actor but I don't like his interpretation of Sonic. I think it's mainly down to the sound direction. For some ungodly reason, Modern Sonic is whiny, cocky in a bad way and irritating. That comes across in Smith's acting but I'm not entirely sure it's his fault.

It's the same for Boom Knuckles. He's a terrible character no matter who voices him. An amazing voice actor could make him endearing or funny but the character is still dreadful.

[Kfarc]

16 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

By arguing for the inclusion of porn in a Sonic game because it would be optional, I demonstrate the absurdity of defending the inclusion of something simply because it's optional. That a thing is optional should not be used to shut down people's distaste for it, or be used as a reason to call them entitled. If someone is going to argue in favor of including something, they should rely on arguing its merits, not telling people "if you don't like it just ignore it".

Well, there is a difference beetwen making dialogues and porn an optional part of a PEGI 7 game. Like, a big difference. You just can't take an example to the extreme and expect us to take it seriously.

About a character telling a thing in a level, I don't need it. Maybe just for a story mode, just to showcase some elements of the enviroment, without using camera (to do that you need an automized set pice, or a straight line). But let's make a first-gameplay-only option, or better yet, give us an option to turn it on and of.

An argument "If it didn't worked before just don't do it" is invalid in this case, because other developers did it, so it is possible. Just. Do. It. Well. Simple and clean. Voice acting was good in recent Sonic games, so I don't see the point of not trying it again.

[Pixel]

it is valid that Sonic Team have tried and failed numerous times to make convincing stories. Just because other developers have done it and it's possible doesn't mean Sonic Team can do it. We aren't talking about ideal games here, if we were then sure, Sonic could have an epic story. The evidence suggests that if Sonic Team took another shot at a story then it would be horrendous and drag the game down.

[Menace2Society]

6 minutes ago, SonicEkkusu said:

I think they should get Jason Griffith back. He got really good with Unleashed, and they changed voice actors after two more games (counting Black Knight).

I wouldn't mind Griffith coming back, since he's my favorite Sonic voice actor, but I don't mind Roger staying, either. He has the best acting out of the three, and while his voice does sound a bit off, I feel it's tolerable enough to listen to and hell, fits Boom Sonic pretty well.

As for Ryan Drummond... let's just say I'm not exactly the biggest fan of his work. :/

[FriendBot]

Welp, nice to see this debate is back again for the umpteenth time.

Ok for this whole in-game dialogue thing. I'd say when done well, it enhances the gaming experience. 

Granted, there were some bad cases like in Shadow or 06. I would include Rise of Lyric but I actually loved the banter between the characters in that game, it helps bring out the characters more without including a cutscene. Heroes does this in parts as well but it's more about referencing the classic games and the Adventures.

If Project 2017 and future games were to include in-game dialogue, it would be better if the dialogue is more about character interactions or references and less about basic stuff like here comes the baddies or here's a Bounce Pad (though I absolutely loved that for some reason).

[Mark1]

4 minutes ago, Lucid Dream said:

Getting back on topic

I don't know about Sonic 3&K, but I do agree that Sonic doesn't have amazing stories. I mean, sure it would be great if that happened. But personally, I'm more than ok with simple plots and nice character development/interaction. If the dialogue becomes more consistantly good, than I think Sonic would be have good stories. A good plot would be awsome though. 

Yeah I mean along the lines of the interactions and simple plots too. As they're fun and I personally feel that's how Sonic should be portrayed regardless of the game. A more deep ended story is also welcomed as long as it doesn't go into edgy territory like Shadow/06. Like the comics, which I feel that this game is being influenced by. 

So people don't get confused what I mean I just want a well written story (along with good VAs) even if it is simple like Colours or Generations.

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Lucid Dream said:

So here you claim that context is irrelevant.

And now you say that context is important. I'm getting tired of this. 

My point is that the argument, "you can't complain if it's optional", works equally as well for having a story as it does for something patently absurd like including porn. And by equally as well, I mean that it doesn't work. We all agree that being optional would not justify including porn in a Sonic game. Nothing, really, is justified simply by being optional. Things should be justified or dismissed on their strengths and weaknesses.

Also re: voice actors: Griffith always had this weird warble to his voice and I'd hate if that ever came back. Smith is doing a fine job, I see no reason to swap him out at this point.

[Pixel]

Sonic should have a story, just one that matches the pace and tone of the game itself. Dialogue isn't really necessary in my opinion.

The story for '17 looks ominous in that it reminds me of Shadow and Sonic 06's terrible grimdark plots. The worst excesses of 3D Sonic. However, if the game closer resembles the minimalism and dark atmosphere of Sonic CD, we could have something good. The trailer used no dialogue and that was very effective. If the game goes down that route it could exceed my expectations.

[FriendBot]

Frankly if we have Classic and Boom around and since those branches aren't very story-driven, Modern Sonic should be more story-driven.

I'm not expecting like Last of Us quality here but would it really hurt to have a fun action/adventure story that has a mix of serious and light hearted tones? I mean Unleashed and Storybook series are generally considered good in the community so yeah.

oh boi my ten thousandth post in this place!

Edited October 13, 2016 by Soni.exe

[Mark1]

3 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Sonic should have a story, just one that matches the pace and tone of the game itself. Dialogue isn't really necessary in my opinion.

The story for '17 looks ominous in that it reminds me of Shadow and Sonic 06's terrible grimdark plots. The worst excesses of 3D Sonic. However, if the game closer resembles the minimalism and dark atmosphere of Sonic CD, we could have something good. The trailer used no dialogue and that was very effective. If the game goes down that route it could exceed my expectations.

Personally I wouldn't go as far as to say like those 2 games in terms of how dark it is. 

Thsi gives off a Eggman won vibe from the Archie Comics. Those two were literally focused on RPG like stories with shallow Monster of the week bosses whoch only appear for one game.

[Lucid Dream]

15 minutes ago, Pixel said:

it is valid that Sonic Team have tried and failed numerous times to make convincing stories. Just because other developers have done it and it's possible doesn't mean Sonic Team can do it. We aren't talking about ideal games here, if we were then sure, Sonic could have an epic story. The evidence suggests that if Sonic Team took another shot at a story then it would be horrendous and drag the game down.

Please explain how: Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Battle, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic and the secret rings, Sonic and the Black Knights, Sonic Boom Fire and ice, Sonic Unleashed, and a few other Sonic games have bad stories. 

I agree that Sonic, at best, has a pleasant simple plot, but that's not to say the story is bad when we have a well made character like Blaze, go through good character development as a result of dialogue with others. 

Sure there's been a few instances, like Sonic 06, where the story is bad. But most of the time it is middling to pleasant. Characters are pretty important. For example I hugely dislike Sonic Colours story, but I actually kinda like Sonic Colours DS story simply because there are other characters in there that I like. Yea, it's a bit silly, but when you like characters, simply seeing them interact and exist makes you happy. 

[Pixel]

Even if something is a separate branch it still affects the overall quality and representation of the franchise. So I don't really accept that Modern Sonic can have an ambitious plot because Classic and Boom are doing their own thing. Rise of Lyric has shown that you can cause great damage to a franchise with a separate, alternate universe game. If Sonic '17 has a terrible plot then that will affect the Sonic franchise, regardless how good Mania is.

[Badnik Mechanic]

21 minutes ago, Pixel said:

In my opinion, having bad in-game dialogue in four games is enough to start thinking about not doing that again.

lol no it's not.

You learn how to write decent ingame dialogue which only triggers once, it's not that hard to do, in fact it's really simple.

Also come on. 4 games over what... 12-15 years? 20 if we're including Tails' stages in SA. How is this really a serious problem?

[FriendBot]

Based on the teaser, it does look pretty serious but I'd say not as serious as 06 or Shadow. From what we can tell, we're not going up against some random ass hell spawn or demigods, just super powerful robots that were shown to be very destructive. In a sense, it's more like 3&K when you think about it. 

Besides Classic Sonic is in it which is a sign that while things do look grim, the game won't forget to include the fun that Shadow/06 forgot

[Diogenes]

How many examples of well-written, not-annoying character chatter are there in the series? Doesn't make much sense to scoff at "only four" when it's pretty much every time the series has tried it.

[FriendBot]

I think people will ignore if a Sonic story is bad when the gameplay is good.

 I mean, I don't really like Colors or Generations' story but people didn't care because the games was still good.

And since Project 2017 has the longest development time in the series' history, I feel reassured that game aspect will at least be good.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Soni.exe said:

 I mean, I don't really like Colors or Generations' story but people didn't care because the games was still good.

People do care, though. Some people may be able to overlook them but they get plenty of shit for their stories.

[Pixel]

9 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

lol no it's not.

You learn how to write decent ingame dialogue which only triggers once, it's not that hard to do, in fact it's really simple.

Also come on. 4 games over what... 12-15 years? 20 if we're including Tails' stages in SA. How is this really a serious problem?

Four mainline titles is a lot. Just because Sonic has an unbelievable amount of games doesn't change that. Besides, outside of those titles, Sonic characters don't really speak in levels which is what we are talking about. In the games where the levels are typically uninterrupted by dialogue, Sonic Team still can't resist putting in horrendous in game-dialogue (Sonic Generations - Homing Shot as a prime example). There's absolutely loads of evidence that Sonic Team are incapable of incorporating dialogue smoothly in levels.

12 minutes ago, Lucid Dream said:

Please explain how: Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Battle, Sonic Advance 3, Sonic and the secret rings, Sonic and the Black Knights, Sonic Boom Fire and ice, Sonic Unleashed, and a few other Sonic games have bad stories. 

I agree that Sonic, at best, has a pleasant simple plot, but that's not to say the story is bad when we have a well made character like Blaze, go through good character development as a result of dialogue with others. 

Sure there's been a few instances, like Sonic 06, where the story is bad. But most of the time it is middling to pleasant. Characters are pretty important. For example I hugely dislike Sonic Colours story, but I actually kinda like Sonic Colours DS story simply because there are other characters in there that I like. Yea, it's a bit silly, but when you like characters, simply seeing them interact and exist makes you happy. 

The Sonic games on the Gameboy Advance and DS are all solid titles. I have no problem with them. That said, they aren't as good examples of Sonic Team going forward as the mainline titles are.

Sonic Unleashed has a horrible plot, I hate Chip's voice actor and his constant speaking. If Chip talked throughout the levels that would be even worse to me than Sonic Boom Rise Of Lyric's ingame dialogue.

Secret Rings was ok but the tone and plot is very far removed from conventional Sonic which was intentional because it was a Storybook Game. The same can be saide for Black Knight, but I think Black Knight's plot was more generic and not as good as Secret Rings.

I haven't played or seen Fire and Ice.

There are a few well-written characters in the franchise but on the whole the bad far outweighs the good.

[Badnik Mechanic]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

How many examples of well-written, not-annoying character chatter are there in the series? Doesn't make much sense to scoff at "only four" when it's pretty much every time the series has tried it.

Because what I'm getting at here is that someone is complaining over nothing. 

Nobody has ever made this a major problem unless the game in question had a major problem with it. When ROL was in development most people called out the ingame dialogue as being atrocious, but nobody was doing that for Generations, nobody did it for SLW, nobody did it for Unleashed. In fact other than Heroes and discussion about Tails' stages in SA. where are the huge discussions about how people hate the ingame dialogue?

I've seen threads about the boost, I've seen threads about what to do with Super Sonic, I've even seen threads about what to do with Sonic's shitty friends. 

But other than when a game comes out and it as a specific flaw which is rare, nobody ever makes threads on why they dislike the dialogue which plays during levels.

It's a non problem that someone thinks is a problem, and we don't even know if it is a problem, because nobody has said a word yet! Go teaser trailers!

[Mark1]

12 minutes ago, Soni.exe said:

Based on the teaser, it does look pretty serious but I'd say not as serious as 06 or Shadow. From what we can tell, we're not going up against some random ass hell spawn or demigods, just super powerful robots that were shown to be very destructive. In a sense, it's more like 3&K when you think about it. 

Besides Classic Sonic is in it which is a sign that while things do look grim, the game won't forget to include the fun that Shadow/06 forgot

Yeah I agree with this. It's a new take I feel, but since the background looks like Crisis City from Sonic '06 people will get a vibe from that game. But the inclusion of Classic Sonic and the fact that Eggman WON is what differentiates it from that one and would seem like a more interesting plot.

Quote

(Sonic Generations - Homing Shot as a prime example)

Yeah Pixel man I am pretty sure this is due to a rushed deadline. Something Sega are supposedly giving developers more freedom with future games, hency why Boom is our only anniversary title this year.

[Pixel]

2 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Because what I'm getting at here is that someone is complaining over nothing. 

Nobody has ever made this a major problem unless the game in question had a major problem with it. When ROL was in development most people called out the ingame dialogue as being atrocious, but nobody was doing that for Generations, nobody did it for SLW, nobody did it for Unleashed. In fact other than Heroes and discussion about Tails' stages in SA. where are the huge discussions about how people hate the ingame dialogue?

I've seen threads about the boost, I've seen threads about what to do with Super Sonic, I've even seen threads about what to do with Sonic's shitty friends. 

But other than when a game comes out and it as a specific flaw, nobody ever makes threads on why they dislike the dialogue which plays during levels.

It's a non problem that someone thinks is a problem, and we don't even know if it is a problem, because nobody has said a word yet! Go teaser trailers!

Just because someone has never complained about something doesn't therefore mean that complaint is void of any validity. An utterly bizarre claim 

I was directly responding to people wanting more in-game dialogue in Sonic levels. It was their hypothetical idea of Sonic '17 and I don't want it because of Sonic Team's past terrible incorporation of in game dialogue.

Seriously, this is not difficult.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

Nobody has ever made this a major problem unless the game in question had a major problem with it. When ROL was in development most people called out the ingame dialogue as being atrocious, but nobody was doing that for Generations, nobody did it for SLW, nobody did it for Unleashed.

People have complained about Sonic's repeated shouts and "woo!"s in Unleashed, actually.

And I'm not really sure what your point is. People complain about it where it is a problem and not where there's very minimal or no in-level chatter...that makes perfect sense?

1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

It's a non problem that someone thinks is a problem, and we don't even know if it is a problem, because nobody has said a word yet! Go teaser trailers!

It was brought up in this thread as a suggestion, man.

[Mark1]

I personally find it hard to believe players could get used to the constant chat whenever Sonic boosted in Unleashed. Something both Colours and Generations did fix, making him far more tolerable. 

Based on the changes they have made based on feedback I think it is fair to assume that both SEGA and Sonic Team are very well aware of complaints here. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what they have cooked up with this game, since it has been branded as a 'new experience'.

[PickleBrows]

I think the subtlety of the in-game dialogue is what would make or break it here. Sonic is a character that I could see talking to himself a little, even if it's just to hear his own wit and snark bounce back at him.

Maybe it's not dialogue we need so much as "reactions" to give this illusion of Sonic, as an in-game character, having more personality. Would anyone really object to something like Sonic falling down a shaft, landing in a small pool of muck and letting out a "blegh" noise under his breath as he gets up and shakes himself off? Or maybe he gives a slightly nervous "woah, woah, woah" as he balances his way across a beam.

We don't need him going "WOAH, CLEANUP IN ISLE 3 GUYS!" but that doesn't mean he has to remain silent.

I'm playing through Rise of the Tomb Raider right now and the game as plenty of little moments of Lara letting out a gasp or something without outright spilling out full sentences.