Sonic Boom (Untagged Spoilers)

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, blazefan519 said:

But Season 1 of Boom actually did really well, especially in Europe. If you're talking about this Season, they only changed it after they previewed the first episode on CN, which the views on that were poor because of terrible advertising.

 

This is a "what have you done for me lately" business. What went down rating wise for season one pretty much means little to nothing if the prospects for Season 2 are dire or poor.

This kinda sucks. Season 1 pulled down strong ratings - even with the negative synergy from the games. Season 2 might not be able to do the same with the combination of a sporadic schedule, lack of a comic, and ho-hum synergy (at best) from Fire and Ice. The only help it will get will come from Sonic Mania, but by the time the hype train for that gets into full swing, it'll probably be too little too late for season 2.

[SSF1991]

9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

But more importantly, to your next point. Pushing people away is exactly what sega has meant and is doing. They think non adventure money will make them more money, so they go in another direction. They abandon one aesthetic for another and appeal to that one. Its not malicious, its what businesses do. Or it shouldn't be malicious , DmC devil may cry is an active example of the devs being vitriolic to the original fambase to the point of being homophobic along with press pushing this narrative that the games critics were mouth breathing man children instead of ninja theory releasing an underwhelming experience.

Do I think sega is that? God no, they threw people a silly party for gods sake. But they do come off a cynical. The people who like adventure era stuff have been told for the past few years " we don't want your money unless its nothing big, or we are making fun of you" and to someone who might like adventure era stuff and sees the other parts of the fanbase being held in higher regard as far as sega goes, and ontop of a strait up new classic sonic game and 2017, and I went through why  that teaser including classic sonic undermines the tone and potential presented just moments earlier, these things in combination create  air that isn't welcoming. And it isn't sega is a buisness they want money, just not yours. Or at least if they try, its nothing major like shadow showing up in sonic boom and amounting to nothing.

But my point is , yeah sega is pushing folks away, they don't want their money. They think they can get more money elsewhere, sega is a buisness.  

Why does this always fall back to "Adventure fans don't get what they want/get mistreated"? And you feel SEGA's being cynical because of this? You're just proving my point.

SEGA just collaborated with LEGO Dimensions, and the Adventure games recieved more love than any other Sonic game. It's loaded with references to those games. In fact, the Adventure references are so important to the story that I'd actually be spoiling the game if I mentioned one major Adventure 1 reference. Adventure fans got arguably 5 Adventure-style games (SA1, SA2, Heroes, Shadow, 06). The Adventure games got it's own era in Generations. SEGA remixes the Adventure soundtracks often. In fact, they put out an album a year or two ago with brand new Adventure 1 & 2 remixes, including a new version of It Doesn't Matter. SEGA even ported both SA1 and 2 to Xbox Live and Steam. They're well aware about the love for the Adventure games, especially the Chao Gardens. How is that being cynical? They haven't been making fun of Adventure fans, and they haven't been saying any of this. In fact, the only thing they've really done is say they're not interested in making a SA3. That's it. And I've been following SEGA for years.

Quote

Considering my main example was Sonic Advance, I'd really like to hear about how that blew up in their face. As far as I can see that game was very successful. How was the Advance series a failure? 

My point has nothing to do with Sonic Advance. And I never said it was a failure. I never said Advance blew up in their face. I was referring to things like reboots (06, Boom), or significant gameplay style changes (Heroes, Lost World, Unleashed, Secret Rings, et cetera).

 

Quote

And I don't think the games added that much change. They added much less change than some of the classics, like Chaotix. Except, debatably Advance 2. 

Even if it wasn't much, they still took the Classic formula and built upon that. Which was the entire point I was making there.

 

Quote

Also, I don't see how a 30 second cutscenes slows you down that much. Sonic 3&K actually has more and longer cutscenes than Advance 2/3. The Advance series only put 3-4 cutscenes in and it definitely added to the game.

Because they happened after every 2 levels. And again, my point had nothing to do with the Advance games.

 

16 hours ago, Sniper dreams said:

You know, it would be nice if you actually read what I wrote instead of reading the first line and assume I'm talking about God knows what. I never said the classics weren't done right. Strawman fallacies are quite rude

Well, seeing how I just spent my reply to this post of yours by saying "I never said that" and "that's not the point" quite a lot, I could say the same thing to you. But I won't, because I recognize that people may interpret what I say differently, and it has nothing to do with "not reading what I wrote". There's no need to be so defensive anyway. I spent over half of the post explaining why I felt that it's understandable why you feel the way you do.

 

[Lucid Dream]

5 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

11 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

My point has nothing to do with Sonic Advance. And I never said it was a failure. I never said Advance blew up in their face. I was referring to things like reboots (06, Boom), or significant gameplay style changes (Heroes, Lost World, Unleashed, Secret Rings, et cetera).

 

I made it quite clear I was talking about the Advance games and not Sonic 06. If you were going to completely ignore my points, than why try to argue/understand me? 

Clearly you're talking about something very irrelevant to my point or something that has nothing to do with me. That's just awkward. 

[SSF1991]

1 minute ago, Sniper dreams said:

I made it quite clear I was talking about the Advance games and not Sonic 06. If you were going to completely ignore my points, than why try to argue/understand me?

...You realize i mentioned more games than just 06, right?

[Lucid Dream]

4 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

...You realize i mentioned more games than just 06, right?

I was only talking about Sonic Advance. It was my topic point. It's very obvious.

There was absolutely no reason for you to assume I was talking about any 3D game. 

[SSF1991]

18 hours ago, Sniper dreams said:

Is it really so hard to learn from what they did right? Because, despite what a few people like to say, Modern Sonic undeniably did have quite a few modern games with pretty good writing

Except it's not obvious. You mentioned Advance in the post only once, then criticized elements of classic games like the lack of story and no talking. You continued by saying this:

18 hours ago, Sniper dreams said:

is it really so hard to learn from what they did right? Because, despite what a few people like to say, Modern Sonic undeniably did have quite a few modern games with pretty good writing.

That didn't come off as a "pro-Advance" remark to me. You praised Modern Sonic after asking why it's so 'hard to learn from what they did right", which comes off to me as you implying that the Classic games weren't done right. If it was nothing more than just Advance talk, then it sure didn't feel that way. I apologize if that was the case, but there's a reason I came to the conclusion that I did. And the fact you keep acting like it's "obvious" that this Advance-topic was what happened (firstly, it's not, and secondly, it's only obvious to you because you wrote it and know exactly what you meant by it).

[Lucid Dream]

35 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

Except it's not obvious. You mentioned Advance in the post only once, then criticized elements of classic games like the lack of story and no talking. You continued by saying this:

That didn't come off as a "pro-Advance" remark to me. You praised Modern Sonic after asking why it's so 'hard to learn from what they did right", which comes off to me as you implying that the Classic games weren't done right. If it was nothing more than just Advance talk, then it sure didn't feel that way. I apologize if that was the case, but there's a reason I came to the conclusion that I did. And the fact you keep acting like it's "obvious" that this Advance-topic was what happened (firstly, it's not, and secondly, it's only obvious to you because you wrote it and know exactly what you meant by it).

You do realise you quoted the same section of my second paragraph twice right? 

Am I not allowed to praise Modern Sonic or criticise classic Sonic? I don't see how I'm implying anything is bad by simply saying SEGA should learn from what they did right. Also I quite clearly point out a few mistakes with modern games too. 

As I've said before, Sonic 3&K way of telling a story is inefficient. Learning how to use dialogue snippets like Sonic Advance could be very beneficial. 

I mean, if you're going to ignore half of my post than obviously you're not going to find it very clear. It's incredibly obvious I was talking about Sonic Advance. I literally say "develop it into something like Sonic Advance" what more do you want?

We're not even disagreeing with each other here. This is really awkward, so why don't we leave it as a misunderstanding?

[CottonCandy]

3 hours ago, Zippo said:

To me, Cartoon Network has been nothing but shit for years now. The cancellation of Sym Bionic Titan, Young Justice and Green Lantern greatly aggravated me. Shows like Regular Show, Steven Universe and Gumball don't appeal to me, but i can tell from all from all the hubbub online that CN's poor treatment of all of these shows is being met with justified criticism. Not sure if the executives are listening or truly care about what people have to say, and that's bad for everyone involved.

Oh I'm aware of the kind of crap CN can do with their shows. Which is why I was fishy about Sonic boom airing on the network since it was announced. Which sucks because it's usually the good shows that get terrible treatment. The cancellation of Symbionic Titan and Young Justice pretty much made me lose all faith in the network. I don't even tune in that much anymore. 

[SSF1991]

Quote

You do realise you quoted the same section of my second paragraph twice right? 

That was an accident. lol

Quote

Am I not allowed to praise Modern Sonic or criticise classic Sonic?

...And now I'm really convinced you haven't been reading what I've been saying. Because I've said multiple times that you can. But you keep telling me this is not what you did, so I'm explaining why I felt the way I did.

Quote

I literally say "develop it into something like Sonic Advance" what more do you want?

That part I misread, which is my mistake. If you had said that sooner, I would've caught on a lot faster....lol

I did read it, it just didn't register in my head for some reason (I even went back to read the post multiple times). lol

1 hour ago, Sniper dreams said:

I mean, if you're going to ignore half of my post

One line =/= half of your post. I don't think you have any room to complain to me about ignoring posts anyway. You did the exact same thing.

Either way, this debate has gone very off-topic of the thread, it's going nowhere, and I do agree that it's best to leave it as a misunderstanding or whatever and move on.

[RLS Legacy]

In terms of Boom merchandise which, according to our resident rumormonger of the day "isn't selling," do we have any indication how well it's actually doing?

I can personally say for a fact, though, that here in the UK the merch is practically nonexistent. None of the posters, clothes or toys that SEGA promised. Hell, not even any trading cards or the damn Slurpees they talked so much about.

In Britain it's also commonplace to see bus advertisements for practically anything under the sun, including (recently) the new Pokemon game, Fantastic Beasts, new brands of biscuits etc. But have I ever seen one of those bus ads for anything Sonic related? Nuh-uh.

Really the only place you can find any of the Boom merch is online, and even that's in short supply. But hey, at least we got the DVDs, eh? Not that I've ever seen those out and about either.

Merchandising Rule #1, SEGA: If you do not stock it or advertise it, people will not buy it. That is how consumerism works. You can't not put anything on shelves and then whine about it not selling. 

[TB100]

I'm going to admit, i'm a bit conflicted, Because i was never into the Boom subseries to begin with. But at the same time, to see Sega just abandon the whole thing altogether, & while it makes some sense (People are forever going to assoicate Boom with Rise of lyric unfortunately.) it still feels like Sega didn't even try. Like i can see the potential in it & i do admire Sega going somewhere new for the Blue Blur, But the matter is, it didn't work out, & it never was going to work out. (It was screwed as soon as Rise of lyric failed.) Because Sega in reality still hasn't really got what makes the Main series tick yet, & honestly, until they do figure out where they want the Main series to go from here, They should not pull this stunt again for a while. (Especially since any minor change to the status quo is going to piss off a large group of people.) So for now in my opinion, they should just focus on the Main series for a while, until Sonic's gets to a point where stuff could be changed.

[Drawloverlala]

to be honest not even Sonic's twitter advertise the show like it did in first season, like remember when they used to make a promo of almost all the next upcoming episodes from that season? with preview pictures and such or after the first hiatus they even made countdown images from the left days to the return of the series?

dunno but i think that also helped the show to get more watchers.. and its kinda sad .. i hope they do it when the Show airs on CN, but i also think its still kinda reasonable if they want to promote Sonic Mania and Lego Dimentions Sonic's pack more than Boom Sonic TV series???  i mean its their first priority now they seem to be a stronger point for the whole franchise than Boom..

not that Boom doesn't have potential (it has but sometimes its being wasted ^__^; )   and nor that it hasn't been recognized by Sonic Team or anything...wich is why i doubt it's the end for Boom series; and if its the case of the rumor, then i don't think its going to be forever..

i would understand that they want to pause Boom... for a while... In fact if they plan making another Boom game in the future then i would prefer 100 times that they delay more than 4 years on it,  after all the franchise situation might get better by then and if that means it assures the game quality will be good and better than the previous ones.. then ok.

but that's what it seems to me hehe.. meanwhile then i will enjoy Boom series as i can i hope next episode can be found more easily than last one lol

-----

also i watched Nutwork! thanks SpongicX for the video!!   it was a nice episode, i was so happy how Sticks worked to get the truth out and what she said about people shoudn't do JUST what someone i the TV said and that people is also responsable for looking for the truth.. that was so nice!! i loved it!

[Fr0zenanus]

does the Boom series, existing. have anything to do with rivalry between the american and japanese parts of the company. (similar to Capcom of the west, being the ones who control Street Fighter)

it seems like the american part of the company wants to live in Tom Kalinske's/Classic Sonic's past glory, and discredit it's japanese half.

that's just the way how i think it, 

[Graystripe2000]

Can anyone confirm? We know that reruns of the past two episodes are airing this Saturday.

https://www.twitter.com/alamortiz92/status/802849136022167552

[SonicWind]

Perhaps that's what the poster meant? But I've checked TV schedules for next Saturday, and Boom isn't on CN that day. Again.

With that rumor that this subfranchise is doomed going around, I have little patience for this. TV Guide is saying it's airing, though, so it better be a scheduling mistake this time.

[Your Vest Friend]

1 hour ago, Fr0zenanus said:

does the Boom series, existing. have anything to do with rivalry between the american and japanese parts of the company. (similar to Capcom of the west, being the ones who control Street Fighter)

it seems like the american part of the company wants to live in Tom Kalinske's/Classic Sonic's past glory, and discredit it's japanese half.

that's just the way how i think it, 

It was definitely created with the idea of it being the Western part of Sonic (because both side's higher-ups ignore the comics), so it's not a stretch to assume that SoA wanted to do it to have some control over the Sonic brand given that they had barely any before.

...And yet they had to rely on Sonic Team to make the new starring character. What a great start. 

[FriendBot]

I can confirm that the past 2 Boomisodes will finally premiere this Saturday. Papa bless.

[SSF1991]

21 minutes ago, Soni said:

I can confirm that the past 2 Boomisodes will finally premiere this Saturday. Papa bless.

They've already premiered. On Boomerrang.

In this case they're reruns.

 

[FriendBot]

Just now, SSF1991 said:

They've already premiered. On Boomerrang.

In this case they're reruns.

 

Well technically they'd be reruns if it was on Boomerang, this is their debut on Cartoon Network so it's technically a premiere in a sense.

the power of loopholes

[Badnik Mechanic]

11 hours ago, Mcbasilrocks said:

In terms of Boom merchandise which, according to our resident rumormonger of the day "isn't selling," do we have any indication how well it's actually doing?

In terms of sales figures, no we do not. We have absolutely no idea because that data is not released to anyone, ever. 

 

However in terms of indirect information... Mmmmmm we have a little. 

Basically, we can tell how well it's doing from how often stores re-stock or purchase the next wave of figures and toys. 

Now whilst this is very unscientific, based on my local area, the stuff must be selling somewhat well since the selection has been re-stocked and the newer items have come in. However, the re-stocks did take several months and the 25th stuff is now starting to take over.

The other bit of information comes from the various trade shows. That being, what are Sega actually selling licenses to.

At the last big trade show, Sega had a very 25th anniversary booth. But they were certainly pushing licenses for Boom, no doubt about that. 

So it's not the disaster that some people claim it is, not by a long shot, it's not going to be anywhere near the most wanted toys of the year... but really? It's probably doing....

 

Oh-Kay.

[SonicWind]

Eh, "oh-kay" is better than "subfranchise-endingly low", so I guess that's good news. At least the merchandise is still selling, period.

[RLS Legacy]

Again, I'm sure it'd do better if SEGA made real effort to advertise and keep the merch in stock without letting it stagnate on shelves.

By the by, relevant question: does anyone have any clue how well the show has gone down with the target audience? Anyone with younger siblings/relatives/friends who watch the show/buy the merch? Ever seen any kids out and about wearing a Boom t-shirt or carrying a Boom toy? I can say I haven't, but then I don't really make a point of examining small children's clothes on my way into work. That'd be a tough one to explain to the cops. 

Regardless, gauging whether or not kids dig (or are even aware of) the show would be a good indicator of its success.

[Badnik Mechanic]

9 minutes ago, Mcbasilrocks said:

Again, I'm sure it'd do better if SEGA made real effort to advertise and keep the merch in stock without letting it stagnate on shelves.

Urm... how  is Sega supposed to do that?

Sega licenses out the Boom license, which Tomy currently has as the master partner for toys.

Tomy then makes the toys and passes them onto their distributors.

The retail stores then buy the toys from the distributors and sell them in stores. 

The advertising of the products comes from the retailers, and it's based on what they think will be the big sellers or what is selling really well, Sega doesn't have much of a hand in it after it approves the license, nor does it have any right to be involved with it.

[RLS Legacy]

4 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Urm... how  is Sega supposed to do that?

Sega licenses out the Boom license, which Tomy currently has as the master partner for toys.

Tomy then makes the toys and passes them onto their distributors.

The retail stores then buy the toys from the distributors and sell them in stores. 

The advertising of the products comes from the retailers, and it's based on what they think will be the big sellers or what is selling really well, Sega doesn't have much of a hand in it after it approves the license, nor does it have any right to be involved with it.

Correct. All correct. But SEGA can and should have a hand in raising awareness of the toy line, be it through social media or otherwise. It's not like it's completely out of their hands once they license out the Boom label; Sonic is their franchise, and should they wish it to succeed - which presumably they do - they can't just dump the license on Tomy and then go cold turkey on pushing it. More has to be done.

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

 

...And yet they had to rely on Sonic Team to make the new starring character. What a great start. 

Are you referring to Sticks?