Sonic Mania (August 15th 2017, Christian Whitehead, PS4, Xbox One, PC, Switch) - The New Classic

[CleverSonicUsername]

Even if there is zipping, I'm sure there will be no glitch runs. That tends to be a popular sub-category, and usually a much more impressive one at that. .

[StaticMania]

Which one takes more skill tends to be the more impressive one...that could be either-or.

[Chris Knopps]

It's something else to see such a different mindset toward a Sonic game.

It does make me wonder though if both parties are getting the same "soft" treatment with expectations. Is it just SEGA of America pampering the staff behind Mania and telling them "no worries" about dates, or is it possible SEGA of Japan is doing the same for Sonic Team and giving the same pampering toward Project 2017 by chance?

I'd love to see the company as a whole finally telling staff to forget deadlines and just "make the d@$n thing good this time" basically. If we're suddenly before a new SEGA that treats ALL of their Sonic projects the way Nintendo treated Breath of the Wild...

I'll tip my hat, kiss some feet and blow somebody. That's how happy it'd make me.

I know folks have seen me being extraordinarily hard on Sonic Team and SEGA of Japan, because I personally see it justly deserved resentment, I also do it as a means of, hopefully, pleasantly surprising myself and enjoying a bit of humbling should their project turn out to be on par with Mania in the end.

I find it doubtable, but if Sonic Team finally pulls another Sonic Adventure and/or Sonic Unleashed revolution for the franchise in the best of ways on top of providing us with Mania from the Western staff this year...

Hot sh@t will I die a happy, HAPPY man.

[Ajavalo]

If the game has to be delayed in the end, it would be cool to release it on June 23th!

[Ratcicle King]

6 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

It's something else to see such a different mindset toward a Sonic game.

It does make me wonder though if both parties are getting the same "soft" treatment with expectations. Is it just SEGA of America pampering the staff behind Mania and telling them "no worries" about dates, or is it possible SEGA of Japan is doing the same for Sonic Team and giving the same pampering toward Project 2017 by chance?

I'd love to see the company as a whole finally telling staff to forget deadlines and just "make the d@$n thing good this time" basically. If we're suddenly before a new SEGA that treats ALL of their Sonic projects the way Nintendo treated Breath of the Wild...

I'll tip my hat, kiss some feet and blow somebody. That's how happy it'd make me.

I know folks have seen me being extraordinarily hard on Sonic Team and SEGA of Japan, because I personally see it justly deserved resentment, I also do it as a means of, hopefully, pleasantly surprising myself and enjoying a bit of humbling should their project turn out to be on par with Mania in the end.

I find it doubtable, but if Sonic Team finally pulls another Sonic Adventure and/or Sonic Unleashed revolution for the franchise in the best of ways on top of providing us with Mania from the Western staff this year...

Hot sh@t will I die a happy, HAPPY man.

Considering Project 17 is supposedly the 25th birthday game(Which was last year) and is most likely coming out by the end of this year/beginning of next, I'd say Sega of Japan is on a similar mindset.

[Gemster312]

19 hours ago, Celestia said:

Speaking of breaking the game--and maybe I've said this before but I feel very strongly about this so--I really hope they bless us with debug mode. I think I spent more time messing with that then actually playing the games when I was younger.

Someone tweeted Christian Whitehead asking for a debug mode, and here's what was said

So i think we can expect a fun debug game-breaking tails-trap-making debug mode coming! Super excited!

[molul]

The Taxman always finds a cool way to say "yes" xD 

[TheOcelot]

Something which has peaked my curiosity since Mania's reveal back in July is the new highest route towards the end of act1 of Green Hill. I think if you go as high as possible it will lead to a second high-up exit where you'll fight the mini-boss and then continue into act 2 from a higher-up starting point (Mirage Saloon act2 has two different starting points - one for Sonic & Tails and the other for Knuckles - so I think it's okay to assume other zones will as well).

It's been disappointing that in the many playthroughs we've seen no one has managed to stay on the highest route until the end. Having watched the full act 1 & act 2 continuous playing which Aaron did a commentary on, I now believe my suspicions are correct.

Case in point: I took this screenshot from the video at 1:20, Sonic is just about to go down the tube which takes him lower. However, if you have a keen eye you will notice a yellow spring at the very top of the screen (which you can see has blue sky background around it) which heavily implies there is something up there to explore.

Now, if you take a look at the video which I have embedded from 1:10. When it gets to 1:18 you'll notice a diagonal placed yellow spring at the (right) top-edge of the loop-de-loop which I believe will propel Sonic, Tails or Knuckles to the spring at 1:20 in my aformetioned screenshot, which will in-turn bounce Sonic higher. As I said, I believe this will lead to a second higher-up exit.

 

At the start of Mania's GH act2 once Sonic has bounced up you can backtrack to what was the original starting point of GH act3 from Sonic 1. Perhaps the theorized higher-up exit in act1 will lead to the original act3 starting point? Or maybe there's an even higher starting point for act2?

So, what do you guys tthink. Is it a good theory?

[Gemster312]

40 minutes ago, TailsBot said:

Something which has peaked my curiosity since Mania's reveal back in July is the new highest route towards the end of act1 of Green Hill. I think if you go as high as possible it will lead to a second high-up exit where you'll fight the mini-boss and then continue into act 2 from a higher-up starting point (Mirage Saloon act2 has two different starting points - one for Sonic & Tails and the other for Knuckles - so I think it's okay to assume other zones will as well).

It's been disappointing that in the many playthroughs we've seen no one has managed to stay on the highest route until the end. Having watched the full act 1 & act 2 continuous playing which Aaron did a commentary on, I now believe my suspicions are correct.

Case in point: I took this screenshot from the video at 1:20, Sonic is just about to go down the tube which takes him lower. However, if you have a keen eye you will notice a yellow spring at the very top of the screen (which you can see has blue sky background around it) which heavily implies there is something up there to explore.

Now, if you take a look at the video which I have embedded from 1:10. When it gets to 1:18 you'll notice a diagonal placed yellow spring at the (right) top-edge of the loop-de-loop which I believe will propel Sonic, Tails or Knuckles to the spring at 1:20 in my aformetioned screenshot, which will in-turn bounce Sonic higher. As I said, I believe this will lead to a second higher-up exit.

 

At the start of Mania's GH act2 once Sonic has bounced up you can backtrack to what was the original starting point of GH act3 from Sonic 1. Perhaps the theorized higher-up exit in act1 will lead to the original act3 starting point? Or maybe there's an even higher starting point for act2?

So, what do you guys tthink. Is it a good theory?

As much as i would LOVE to see "multiple end-of-level bosses" that you can achieve via different routes, i kind of doubt they would do that. For one, that would take quite a bit more development time to design different bosses for different routes, OR, even if they do use the same boss just located in different locations, it would be strange to somehow tie the player back into the next act from different starting locations.

I don't know, it think it's just weird to have multiple starting locations based off of where you ended the last act, and then multiple ending locations, depending on how you traversed the level. Although that would be absolutely phenomenal, it would add much more spice and variety on how to beat the game, i feel like Boss Fights should be anchored. It's like the spot in the map where all the routes all finally come to. All roads lead to Rome. All Sonic paths lead to the miniboss.

Additionally, if you watch the footage of GHZ act 2, when they go up to the "starting area of GHZ Act 3", there are 2 item boxes hidden in the trees that get hit. Feels weird to have item boxes (especially a 1-up) located right where a boss fight just happened and to have the player start so close to a 1-up (unless they oddly program it to only spawn if you took the lower route? But that's weird to suddenly have items spawn depending on which route you take).

As much as i would love variety in boss locations, they feel too much like an anchor spot, and don't seem worth the time/effort the developers would have to spend to link everything together and make the battles make sense in each location. But I hope im wrong

[Osmium]

1 hour ago, TailsBot said:

Something which has peaked my curiosity since Mania's reveal back in July is the new highest route towards the end of act1 of Green Hill. I think if you go as high as possible it will lead to a second high-up exit where you'll fight the mini-boss and then continue into act 2 from a higher-up starting point (Mirage Saloon act2 has two different starting points - one for Sonic & Tails and the other for Knuckles - so I think it's okay to assume other zones will as well).

It's been disappointing that in the many playthroughs we've seen no one has managed to stay on the highest route until the end. Having watched the full act 1 & act 2 continuous playing which Aaron did a commentary on, I now believe my suspicions are correct.

Case in point: I took this screenshot from the video at 1:20, Sonic is just about to go down the tube which takes him lower. However, if you have a keen eye you will notice a yellow spring at the very top of the screen (which you can see has blue sky background around it) which heavily implies there is something up there to explore.

Now, if you take a look at the video which I have embedded from 1:10. When it gets to 1:18 you'll notice a diagonal placed yellow spring at the (right) top-edge of the loop-de-loop which I believe will propel Sonic, Tails or Knuckles to the spring at 1:20 in my aformetioned screenshot, which will in-turn bounce Sonic higher. As I said, I believe this will lead to a second higher-up exit.

 

At the start of Mania's GH act2 once Sonic has bounced up you can backtrack to what was the original starting point of GH act3 from Sonic 1. Perhaps the theorized higher-up exit in act1 will lead to the original act3 starting point? Or maybe there's an even higher starting point for act2?

So, what do you guys tthink. Is it a good theory?

That's quite a good observation that even I didn't see. It's entirely possible, and with the issue of how much time it would take to put in alternate exits to every act, maybe there aren't alternate exists to every act. Kinda like how Starlight Zone act 1 had two exits but not every other act did. It could be one of those occasional odd things, but we'll see.  

[Gemster312]

3 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

That's quite a good observation that even I didn't see. It's entirely possible, and with the issue of how much time it would take to put in alternate exits to every act, maybe there aren't alternate exists to every act. Kinda like how Starlight Zone act 1 had two exits but not every other act did. It could be one of those occasional odd things, but we'll see.  

Starlight Zone Act 1 has only 1 exit...

What do you mean 2 exits?

[Osmium]

Just now, Gemster312 said:

Starlight Zone Act 1 has only 1 exit...

No it doesn't. 

[Tracker_TD]

Just now, Gemster312 said:

 

Starlight Zone Act 1 has only 1 exit...

What do you mean 2 exits?

Technically has two, just with the same signpost.

Saying that, Collision Chaos in CD has an act that actually does have two completely different exits; it even nabs you an achievement in CD 2011!

[Gemster312]

Just now, ShroomZed said:

No it doesn't. 

lol omg i never noticed that.

Does that even technically count as a second exit? xD

[Osmium]

And yeah Tracker is also correct with Collision Chaos Zone 2 having two exits. Collision Chaos Zone 2 is probably the better example actually with how more apparent it is. 

[Gemster312]

I guess i completely forgot about those.

Regardless, those could do it easy since the end of the act was nothing but a sign post (no boss), and it didn't "smooth transition" into the next act. Regardless where you ended the previous act, you began the next in the exact same spot. Would be more difficult in Sonic Mania xP

[Ajavalo]

Spring Yard Zone act 2 and Collision Chaos zone 2 both have two alternate signpost exits. And many Sonic 3&K levels have different starting/end points for Sonic and Knuckles.

What's the message I want to get across? DEFINITELY expect certain acts in Sonic Mania to have two starting or end points (maybe even three!).

[Osmium]

1 minute ago, Ajavalo said:

Spring Yard Zone act 2 and Collision Chaos zone 2 both have two alternate signpost exits. And many Sonic 3&K levels have different starting/end points for Sonic and Knuckles.

What's the message I want to get across? DEFINITELY expect certain acts in Sonic Mania to have two starting or end points (maybe even three!).

Oh yeah I forgot about Spring Yard act 2. Good catch. Yeah so we definitely aren't short on zones that have two exits when it's not the norm, so I can definitely see it in Mania. Agree completely dude. 

[Gemster312]

Just now, Ajavalo said:

Spring Yard Zone act 2 and Collision Chaos zone 2 both have two alternate signpost exits. And many Sonic 3&K levels have different starting/end points for Sonic and Knuckles.

What's the message I want to get across? DEFINITELY expect certain acts in Sonic Mania to have two starting or end points (maybe even three!).

Oh i agree for the sake of different characters getting different paths (that's a no-brainer), as already evident in Mirage Saloon Act 2 knux different starting place.

But i mean, for Sonic to get multiple places he could fight the End-Of-Act 1 boss? Then have multiple different ways of starting out Act 2 depending where he finished Act 1? I'm no way saying that impossible, but that's a lot of work.

In Sonic 3 it worked because Knuckles had his own bosses, his own whole level design. To dedicate a whole new "extra path" just for characters who took an alternative boss battle, is so much more work if 90% of players wont experience it.

 

Does it make sense what im saying?

[Ajavalo]

Well, I don't know if it is really that much work to put the same boss in two locations, even with different boss arenas for variety. The boss object is already programmed. And I'm all for putting somewhat hidden content for those who like exploring.

[Chris Knopps]

What if they do it so each character has an exclusive version of bosses only they can reach?

For instance, Sonic via the normal route, Knuckles via some barrier ala S3&K with Tails reaching his via flight?

[Tracker_TD]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

What if they do it so each character has an exclusive version of bosses only they can reach?

For instance, Sonic via the normal route, Knuckles via some barrier ala S3&K with Tails reaching his via flight?

Knuckles routes are definitely a thing in Mania, so I'd be surprised if this weren't the case for a few levels at least, especially given Knuckles' different Mirage Saloon Act 2 startpoint.

[Milo]

23 minutes ago, Gemster312 said:

In Sonic 3 it worked because Knuckles had his own bosses, his own whole level design. To dedicate a whole new "extra path" just for characters who took an alternative boss battle, is so much more work if 90% of players wont experience it.

That only depends on how these alternate routes are implemented, however. Not all hidden alternate routes need to be implemented in an ultra-vague/obscure manner. Otherwise people wouldn't be able to find almost any Giant Rings in Sonic 3&K, let alone the Giant Rings hidden under spikes in Flying Battery or underneath quicksand sandpits placed in the higher routes in Sandopolis.

Honestly, I don't mind the idea of some zones including alternate hidden bosses/exits that aren't tied to character-specific routes (either replacing or in addition to character-exclusive route exits). If anything, I've been hoping for them to be used as an access point for "secret" acts or zones not part of the main campaign (think the secret flagposts that unlock side acts in 2D Mario games). Taxman/Stealth already even experimented with this idea a bit with the remade Hidden Palace Zone in the Sonic 2 mobile remaster--you can only access it by going into what used to be Mystic Cave's notorious spike pit, and completing said zone simply takes you to the next zone in the standard level progression (Metropolis).

[EmmBee]

On 3/12/2017 at 3:26 PM, Celestia said:

Speaking of breaking the game--and maybe I've said this before but I feel very strongly about this so--I really hope they bless us with debug mode. I think I spent more time messing with that then actually playing the games when I was younger.

The mobile remasters of Sonic 1 and 2 had debug mode, so the possibility of it being included isn't entirely out of the question.

[Chris Knopps]

One more thing I'm not liking too much...

Is anyone else bothered by how PINK they made Knuckles tone in this game? I like him more on the red side, but I guess it's not terrible... It nags me nonetheless.

(Edit)

Don't get me wrong, still love the S3&K and Chaotix combination going on in design, but do wish he wasn't quite so pink as that's what made his super/hyper form so unique to me too.