RUMOUR: Next Sonic Game Allegedly has a working prototype - "Another new gameplay style? But we just got one...no...two!"

[Scar]

Sounds about right.

 

Having played a little bit of Lost World....something felt off about it. I dunno, it just felt weird to control.

People say: "Oh, they shouldn't scrap it, if they kept some of it and added 'momentum physics' and other stuff, it could be great", but is it actually that simple?

 

I'd wager that it isn't. If there was something in LW's gameplay that was fundamentally broken, sometimes you can't avoid changing it up again. And who's to say they didn't just take LW's gameplay engine and strip it down to the fundamentals a play around with it, resulting in an ultimately different beast.

 

Too much uncertainty at this stage.

[Diogenes]

Sonic didn't even react to them though. Not even an "ooh, a wisp! Haven't seen these guys in a while!". Even that would have been enough.

I just don't get why you'd want them to waste time pointing out something so inconsequential. Where would he even mention it? SLoW didn't have any real in-level dialogue from Sonic, and they aren't a part of the story so it wouldn't make any sense to point them out in a cutscene.

[Tani Coyote]

Why? Wisps still being around is the most inconsequential thing in that whole game. Their presence affects nothing. Is it ever stated in Colours that all the Wisps went back with their home planet? It's a complete non-issue.

Not for those who enjoy Sonic having some sort of overall narrative as much as gameplay. We're not expecting the next Harry Potter in terms of writing, but it would be nice to know why they're back despite all returning home in Colors.

Does the Lost World guide explain the Wisps? That's the easiest place to put inconsequential bits of info.

[Nepenthe]

The Wisps at least work far better and sensibly in Colors' world because everything about the game points back to their existence. Eggman is using them for energy, thus when you free a new type they reward you with a new power in return. Narrative feeds gameplay which feeds narrative; a satisfying feedback loop. It's a decent sense of game design and continuity and one of the most simple, and that's what baffles me about people actually complaining or wondering about the fact that people had a problem with this. It's not like we're asking for an entire book about why they're there, but a little something more than the laziness of tossing them in for the hell of it. Hell, Lost World couldn't be bothered to at least use them in place of the Small Animals, with an excuse that they got lost on the way home or something. Even that would've been perfectly fine. 

I mean fuck, I just want games that are harmonized better in all areas, like every other medium requiring multiple disciplines of art ever. This weird, lackadaisical approach to how the elements of a game are connected with one another just makes for some exceedingly basic shit.

[Willsy]

I just don't get why you'd want them to waste time pointing out something so inconsequential. Where would he even mention it? SLoW didn't have any real in-level dialogue from Sonic, and they aren't a part of the story so it wouldn't make any sense to point them out in a cutscene.

WelI, exactly. I was saying that if they were going to do it at all, they should have at least referenced them. At the end of the day though, they had no real purpose being there, and I think it would be better if they were just left out in favour of development time going on to something else. But it's done now I guess, and it doesn't really ruin the game. (There are other things in the game that do that instead)

[Milo]

Saying the Wisps are pointless because we already have the shield power ups is such a strange comment. Most of the shied power ups have kind of been rendered useless now: the Flame Shield's launch attack got bungled into the Homing Attack, the Lightning Shield's ring attraction has been added as a boosting bonus, and Sonic spends less time in water now so the Bubble Shield is not as needed and it's attack got shoved into the bounce. There is no real need for them.

 

The homing attack and boost don't have certain abilities the fire and lightning shields have (no fire-resistant powers, no retained momentum after performing jump dashes, no blocking of enemy-fired projectiles...).

The water shield likewise has a few additional powers aside from breathing underwater and bouncing and isn't strictly for underwater usage, however since there hasn't been many (under)water levels for it to be used recently I do think you make a fair point.

Nonetheless, just because those shields in particular have had their abilities made redundant or recycled into other powers doesn't mean shields in general are redundant. They can just easily make new shields.

 

And don't say Wisps were "mostly optional in Colours," and then get annoyed because they were "sometimes mandatory in Lost World." You're literally picking and choosing your words to make one sound better than the other, despite the fact that they are the same thing. Getting annoyed at their controls is a valid complaint, this one isn't. 

 

You're calling semantics on terms that honestly aren't as similar as you're making them out to be. Nonetheless...

 

In Colors, Wisps are mostly optional in that aside from a few cases, they aren't necessary to get through levels throughout the game.

In Lost World, Wisps are "sometimes mandatory in Lost World" in that you occasionally have to use them in levels or sections of levels throughout the game. (That quote, for the record, I never actually said in my post...I said "[they were] mandatory to complete (sections of) certain levels". There is a difference.)

 

Oh, and here's how you explain why the Wisps are in Sonic Lost World: because Sonic Team wanted to keep using them in their level design. Bam. Done.

 

I'd personally rather have a legitimate reason from Sonic Team themselves why they are in the game rather than make assumptions and call it a day. And even if that was the case I'd consider it a poor reason because the Wisps were integrated into/with the level design in a terrible manner.

[KingIgort]

I'm talking to a fucking brick wall, aren't I?

[Chaos Incarnate]

I just wonder if Iizuka is actually going through with his statement on The Wisps becoming a staple of Modern Sonic. After the reaction to them in Lost World, though? Who knows, Sonic Team doesn't really like to bring back gameplay elements that aren't so well received.

 

They were relatively harmless in Colors, and I wouldn't mind if their role in another title were similar to that, where they weren't intrusive on completing a level. But at the same time, I don't really see the point at all. Sonic's abilities are already well rounded enough in most titles to complete a level on his own, and if you want to add elements like flying, gliding, whatever, NEWSFLASH, what do you have your extended cast of characters for?

[Milo]

I'm talking to a fucking brick wall, aren't I?

 

Assuming you're referring to me, I find that hypocritical for you to assume that's the case, considering you just actively dismissed my previous post entirely (in which I actually admitted you had a fair point in one instance).

 

If you're not interested in continuing this discussion further, just say so instead of insinuating I don't give two shits about what other people who disagree with me have to say.

[azoo]

I'm talking to a fucking brick wall, aren't I?

 

No, you're not.

 

You're talking to people who, fairly enough, were wondering why Wisps were in the game yet with no given context, and you're arguing back with "because they wanted to".

 

This kind of argument is like they could make Sonic a dragon that has three girlfriends and a pet snake and it would be reasonable to use as an answer "because they wanted to" if it's practical from a gameplay perspective. :v

[Diogenes]

Man I dunno, I don't feel like they need to explain why CRT monitors can be found everywhere from ancient ruins to snow-covered mountains to lava-flooded caverns, and I don't think the magic space jellyfish are much different just because they were a plot point in a previous game.

[azoo]

Because the monitors were standard game items from the get-go a la mushrooms / fire flowers while Wisps were given place and personality a la Lumas?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Man I dunno, I don't feel like they need to explain why CRT monitors can be found everywhere from ancient ruins to snow-covered mountains to lava-flooded caverns, and I don't think the magic space jellyfish are much different just because they were a plot point in a previous game.

That makes a huge difference, actually.

 

Where as the Wisps were a plot point, the monitors, since the very beginning of this franchise, never were. And that's why they (the monitors) are not questioned to the same extent, if at all. Were the wisps never a plot point in Colors, there would hardly be any questioning of them still being around in Lost World like people are doing now. Not in the way people are doing now at least.

[Indigo Rush]

At first I was going to play devils advocate and use the existence of Chao post-SA1 as an argument for gameplay mechanics existing separate from a story explanation, but the Chao were never sent into outer space to their home galaxy where we are left to assume they will stay forever until further notice.

We were never given any notice.

[azoo]

Yeah, Chao were always included outside of the story and explained as pets that humans, anthro-peeps and whoever take care of. 

[KingIgort]

No, you're not.

 

You're talking to people who, fairly enough, were wondering why Wisps were in the game yet with no given context, and you're arguing back with "because they wanted to".

 

This kind of argument is like they could make Sonic a dragon that has three girlfriends and a pet snake and it would be reasonable to use as an answer "because they wanted to" if it's practical from a gameplay perspective. :v

 

Hey, look everybody, a straw man.

 

Sonic Team did not address the Wisps being in Lost World because it does not matter. If Sonic Team thought it necessary to explain them they would have done so. It is irrelevant, superfluous even. They brought them over from the previous game because they thought they were a fun gameplay mechanic. If you are upset that they did not explain their presence, that is your problem, not Sonic Team's. 

[Diogenes]

Because the monitors were standard game items from the get-go a la mushrooms / fire flowers while Wisps were given place and personality a la Lumas?

So like, if the Lumas were in 3D World (er, before the Galaxy level, that is) without explanation, that'd be a problem?

 

...yeah, sorry, I just can't get into that mindset. It just seems like a completely trivial thing, that some friendly aliens apparently stuck around.

[Gabz Girl]

I was annoyed about the Wisps being in SLW with no explanation given. The tv screens with items have been around since Sonic 1 and there was no story attached to them. The Wisps on the other hand, were important to Sonic Colours and the reason they were in capsules was in itself important to Colours' story too! Why are they in capsules now in SLW? What are they doing at Lost Hex? Did Eggman re capture them? Nothing is said about them, Sonic ignores them and that's that. I dunno, it doesn't seem right.

 

That's why I hope that if they do make a return we at least get some explanation. Otherwise I'd rather not see them around anymore.

[Nepenthe]

The Wisps didn't stick around.

They went home at the end of Colors.

 

All of them.

 

So why the fuck are they on a "lost" planet for no reason?

 

Like, if Shadow appeared and had you use some vehicles, and they were fun vehicles, no one would question why he's there when nothing in the story has been made clear about why he appeared? Or rather, anyone who questioned "Hey, why the fuck is Shadow in this game and a major gameplay element for no reason?" would be being pedantic???

[Diogenes]

The Wisps didn't stick around.

They went home at the end of Colors.

 

All of them.

Well...apparently not.

Like, if Shadow appeared and had you use some vehicles, and they were fun vehicles, no one would question why he's there when nothing in the story has been made clear about why he appeared? Or rather, anyone who questioned "Hey, why the fuck is Shadow in this game and a major gameplay element for no reason?" would be being pedantic???

That's not quite an equal comparison. Shadow's a singular character of mostly known qualities. The wisps are an entire species, and we don't really know much about them. I don't find it a stretch for some of them to decide Earth looks like a fun place and to stick around, and to wander off to the lost wherever because why not.

[azoo]

Hey, look everybody, a straw man.

 

Sonic Team did not address the Wisps being in Lost World because it does not matter. If Sonic Team thought it necessary to explain them they would have done so. It is irrelevant, superfluous even. They brought them over from the previous game because they thought they were a fun gameplay mechanic. If you are upset that they did not explain their presence, that is your problem, not Sonic Team's. 

 

Hahaha, no man.

 

I used a strawman because the point behind something out of left field having no explanation other than gameplay reasons is such a ridiculous idea that it should be obvious that it is. 

 

Wisps should've been brought up because you don't build an entire game making the presence of some species, and then use them afterwards in a throwaway fashion. You're essentially undermining their purpose they've been put in. This is like Knuckles sticking around for no reason: it's bad design from a narrative perspective and minimizes the point of their presence to "oh, well, they're back just because it's convenient".

 

Wisps aren't like item boxes. Those are meant for power-ups in however way. Wisps have a background and personalities to them, and while they are power ups in their own way, they're also technically "characters", much like Chao. Chao get away with it because Chao were written into canon as pets and can return whenever Sonic Team feels like without having to write some sort of explanation on why they're back. Wisps don't do that.

 

And you know, Wisps didn't even need much of an explanation! All they needed was an acknowledgement and a one-sentence-long explanation to be in the game for a decent reason. To act like people are asking too much to get that is silly.

[Komodin]

They brought them over from the previous game because they thought they were a fun gameplay mechanic.

 

The point that they're making is that this isn't a good enough reason to explain their presence in the game, especially since, frankly, the way that they were implemented weren't "fun" at all.

[Nepenthe]

It's not the fact that it's a stretch to assume that they're there. It's the fact that context wasn't established for why they're on Lost Hex (still in capsules no less) when there was previously a whole game dedicated to their existence. It makes them feel like a pandering, superfluous element to the overall game design and makes the narrative feel that much more lazier on top of it, especially since it wouldn't have been all difficult to establish a bit of context anyway.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Wisps aren't like item boxes. Those are meant for power-ups in however way. Wisps have a background and personalities to them, and while they are power ups in their own way, they're also technically "characters", much like Chao. Chao get away with it because Chao were written into canon as pets and can return whenever Sonic Team feels like without having to write some sort of explanation on why they're back. Wisps don't do that.

Uh, wouldn't it be easier, and more to the point, to say that the Chao can get away with it because they were shown to still be alive? On Earth? Where we know they're still around? Unlike the Wisps where the ending in Colors implied they went back to their home planet?

 

Just a thought.

[Diogenes]

Chao get away with it because Chao were written into canon as pets and can return whenever Sonic Team feels like without having to write some sort of explanation on why they're back.

Thinking about it, being pets doesn't explain how two of them ended up in Heroes' special/bonus stages.