Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Well, he'll probably never let that out -- you never know when Hollywood will come knocking on the door of a visionary such as himself, after all.

Assuming he doesn't rework it to be a part of Lara-Su, that is. Because THEN he can preface the film with "Based on the Smash-Hit Chart-Topping #1 Best-Selling Visual Literature Mobile Application Experience 'The Lara-Su Chronicles'."

[SBR2]

20 hours ago, Tenko said:

He's posted a new tweet with some artwork of Lara-Su..you know..if you have ever wondered if these "aliens" wear undergarments in their society..even the underage ones..

They don't.

 

Honestly this is maybe the first piece that doesn't look like garbage. There's actual subtly to the pose and it gives the feeling of deep thought. It's not bad.

12 hours ago, horridus said:

A proper outline was never given, so the plot points can only be gleaned from the concept art and that awful, awful pitch video he made.

Between the art and the name of the film though, its pretty clear that Mobius blowing up was gonna be a major plot point for this trainwreck. Cause you know, THAT'S what we all wanted to see from a Sonic movie. And yet according to Penders, this would have been the axis upon which the franchise would spin, if those FOOLS had only LISTENED to him. 

I seriously wish this had been made. It would have been a hilarious trainwreck. 

[Tenko]

For those that may have doubted, or perhaps thought it wasn't meant as it was seen, perhaps it was underwear but looked like a butt cheek...it wasn't.

"Mobian culture" doesn't abide undergarments. While that's all well and good when dealing with characters like Sonic and company who have no dicernable "rude" parts. When you take the time to draw butt cheeks etc..it just becomes creepy. Personal opinion.

[DabigRG]

4 minutes ago, Tenko said:

 

 

Pop culture, like Back to the Future and Bojack Horseman.

[horridus]

6 hours ago, Tenko said:

For those that may have doubted, or perhaps thought it wasn't meant as it was seen, perhaps it was underwear but looked like a butt cheek...it wasn't.

"Mobian culture" doesn't abide undergarments. While that's all well and good when dealing with characters like Sonic and company who have no dicernable "rude" parts. When you take the time to draw butt cheeks etc..it just becomes creepy. Personal opinion.

Kinda shocked anyone could mistake the characters outfits as 80s outfits. I don't think any of the 80s fashion was that boring. 

I'm rather amused by the fact that evidently, Captain Realistic Sci-Fi here just cheerfully gave a blanket justification for it, given that even on Earth there is no universal consensus on what properly constitutes proper clothing, to say nothing of individual choices when it comes to undergarments. 

This is one of the stickier points when it comes to building up fictitious, non-human cultures- namely, when is an action taken in the name of creating a genuinely alien viewpoint, and when it is done as a cheap excuse? Science fiction is LITTERED with authors who used the medium as a means of expressing their otherwise more unwholesome views while using the sci-fi context to justify their choices despite how blatantly repugnant their motives in doing so. It can be a tough call to make at times.

That being said, when the first demonstration of this is to justify why a teenager's ass crack is on display? Yeah, its got nothing to do with the nonexistant 'culture' of the Echyd'nya. 

 

[Tenko]

Posted in the IDW topic too to see if anyone had old figures, but I saw a post that mentioned that IDW Sonic #1-4 The first print run of the first arc had colectivly sold over 60,000 copies. Not sure if that's better or worse than Archie's figures on any given arc or compared to the old days that Penders seems to always bring up as being the most successful time, cause he was involved of course. It will be interesting to see if he says anything or considering his bashing of the concept of just using game material and Sega's closure on his material. I sincerely doubt Lara-Su will sell anywhere near that ball park tho. 

[horridus]

I think its kind of moot to use absolute numbers with regards to popularity and reception. Penders wholeheartedly embraces the idea that sales are proof of popularity, regardless of quality- never mind that comics in general haven't sold as well as when he was writing, or that he was fortunate enough to write when Sonic was at the absolute peak of his popularity and during a time before SEGA decided they wanted a more unified approach to their property. The circumstances are never important to him, only the results, and only when it benefits him in some way or allows him to act like he's actually good at what he does. 

Last I checked though? The new IDW books have been going into multiple printings, and last time I checked, nothing of the old Archie was ever successful enough to justify that. 

Aand yeah, assuming LSC ever comes out, its pretty much doomed. Its overly reliant on materials he can't use and doesn't own. His insistence on directly tying the work into said materials and continuing after them is going to alienate potential new readers, and the vast bulk of the old readers are so fed up with him that they're not gonna come in droves for the Not-Sonic. And that's without getting into the truly abominable quality issues  that have impacted every last facet of this project since its onset. 

[SBR2]

16 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Pop culture, like Back to the Future and Bojack Horseman.

Plus TV from the 80's and just reading about them.

[RedFox99]

Just now, SBR2 said:

Plus TV from the 80's and just reading about them.

And photos of people from the 80s.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Semi-related, but one has to wonder why ole Kenders here doesn’t try to use Patreon to post his abominations online for cash. Legal issues aside it strikes me as odd that someone as opportunistic as him hasn’t jumped on the bandwagon.

[RedFox99]

34 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

Semi-related, but one has to wonder why ole Kenders here doesn’t try to use Patreon to post his abominations online for cash. Legal issues aside it strikes me as odd that someone as opportunistic as him hasn’t jumped on the bandwagon.

Well, the thing is, that would probably require him making promises that might be too risking even for him. Sure, he constantly promises release dates and breaks them through, but doing so will probably get him in less trouble on the internet than breaking deals with his Patrons.

[Tenko]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

Last I checked though? The new IDW books have been going into multiple printings, and last time I checked, nothing of the old Archie was ever successful enough to justify that. 

Yeah he doesn't really care about that either. I recall people using Mega Drive selling out and needing second print to fill demand against his arguments but he just retorted with something about people not knowing the initial print run quantity and that anything can sell out if the run is small enough.

Again using his "inside" previous knowledge from working there to say Archie print runs were a lot bigger back in the day and that Mega Drive selling out now wouldn't even equal a standard one of his issues sales or some such.

Hence my interest in the figures, tho the old Archie figures are hard to come by and he would likely bring up his age old excuse that they could have sold better if they hadn't lost shelf space to other titles at the time as he does with Knuckles. From what VEDJ-F said in the IDW topic it seems that they are selling about the same as Archie, better than Universe and Boom, but stabilizing at a higher point of sales overall so it's sounding good for IDW regardless.

[Sidronas]

8 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Well, the thing is, that would probably require him making promises that might be too risking even for him. Sure, he constantly promises release dates and breaks them through, but doing so will probably get him in less trouble on the internet than breaking deals with his Patrons.

And also, it might show how popular or not it is, and I doubt even Ken can spin his way out of it going wrong or otherwise.

 

And IIRC, i think someone questioned about it before and i think he said that he claimed that he was a "professional" and  "doing professional work" and doing stuff by his own,  and like above, he would get caught out being delayed as he usually seem to be and would paint him as unreliable

 

 

 

On 5/6/2018 at 6:33 PM, Mr Silvia said:

At least this art is terrible for different reasons then usual. Christ. Nothing of interest here, honestly. 

I was looking through Ken's twitter, and a found this link to a Long facebook post by him.                                                                                                                                                               

EDIT: Sidronas Espio'd me, and my link was fuckin' broken anyway

He goes on about Trump, then about the Archie lawsuit. I think he overvalues his IP, (greatly!), and this seems to imply that he thinks a payout is coming, but that's nothing new, unfortunately. I'm wondering though, looking at this, did they offer to buy his IP off of him, but they simply didn't offer him enough money? I vaguely remember something from years ago where somebody asked him how much money he thought it was worth, and he didn't give a precise answer. I seems to remember a vague answer of "a lot".

...

I wonder, if Archie and/or Sega were waiting for him to start publishing TLSC, so they could threaten him with a lawsuit of some sort, and buyout his stuff cheaply, while Ken never really planned to do anything with TLSC, and just wanted to prod Archie/Sega into a big buyout faster? That would explain why nothing has happened in the past 5 years!

Alternatively, I wonder if Sega of Japan saw the Ken's victory as an excuse to eject western material they hated and used Ken as an easy scapegoat for the heat? SOJ really seems to hate "Mobius" related stuff for whatever reason, from the looks of things. It's a stupid and malicious plan, but it's not like they gave a crap about anybody involved with Archie's Sonic The Hedgehog... or anything, given the state of the franchise. LOL. Seems like it worked perfectly, if that's what they were trying to accomplish. I really hope this one isn't it.

Maybe Sega and Archie were just scared off by "some dude in Los Angeles?" It's not like the why matters anymore, this situation is an absolute disaster for everyone involved.

 Shit, I've been listening to the Deus Ex soundtrack while typing this. I can feel more conspiracies forming right now!!!

 

sorry about that. I think you described this better than i did. lol

[Tylinos]

Ken has finally released the first page of TLSC.

And, once again, we're back to using photo backgrounds.  You'd think that seven years of production time thus far would mean he'd be able to devote a bit of effort into the opening page, but I guess not.  It kind of works in the upper right panel (which I guess is why he just directly copy/pasted that frame in the bottom middle panel), but the bottom left one just looks like a sticker was pasted over the photo.  It barely even tries to blend in.

Speaking of the bottom left, we get our first look at Lara-Su's tattoo there.  And suddenly I have to wonder if this is a Sonic spinoff or an MLP spinoff, because even as someone who doesn't watch the show, I know that's exactly where they have their marks.

Also, there's a smudge in the right-hand margins.  May want to clean that up before finalizing it.

[MightyRay]

How hard is it to draw a fucking beach?! Come on I can understand the photo backgrounds for, like, complicated cities and stuff, but a plain old beach? That shit should be drawn. There are tones of free tutorials on the net on how to paint or draw skies and beaches. I bet Penders didn't take the photos himself, but scabbed them from google. I hope the photographer who did take the photos finds out and gives him trouble, if he scabbed them from a non royalty free site.

[Adamis]

I don't remember translating this one, though I can be wrong. (I mainly translated pages from THE STORM)

It might mean some are on the way to his translators.

[Tenko]

31 minutes ago, Tylinos said:

Ken has finally released the first page of TLSC.

Speaking of the bottom left, we get our first look at Lara-Su's tattoo there.  And suddenly I have to wonder if this is a Sonic spinoff or an MLP spinoff, because even as someone who doesn't watch the show, I know that's exactly where they have their marks.

Isn't it odd, he mentioned only 2 days ago that he was considering giving Lara-Su a tattoo while working on his latest page...

I'm sure he's not, as creators generally work on multiple parts of their project at once, and it's very rarely in beginning to end order, but the way he broadcasts his intentions, and then releases the content he's contemplating on a couple days later really makes it seem like he's just doing things on the seat of his pants sometimes. Yes creators change things on personal whim and sometimes last minute, but it's just the way he broadcasts it...I dunno it's hard to explain.

 

[dwitefry666]

So this is for the thing he's charging for right?

Cos...Lara-Su is awfully Sonic styled...

 

[The Tenth Doctor]

A gift for Mothers Day is a page about losing her Father? You get a bit mixed up there Ken?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

1 hour ago, Tylinos said:

Ken has finally released the first page of TLSC.

And, once again, we're back to using photo backgrounds.  You'd think that seven years of production time thus far would mean he'd be able to devote a bit of effort into the opening page, but I guess not.  It kind of works in the upper right panel (which I guess is why he just directly copy/pasted that frame in the bottom middle panel), but the bottom left one just looks like a sticker was pasted over the photo.  It barely even tries to blend in.

Speaking of the bottom left, we get our first look at Lara-Su's tattoo there.  And suddenly I have to wonder if this is a Sonic spinoff or an MLP spinoff, because even as someone who doesn't watch the show, I know that's exactly where they have their marks.

Also, there's a smudge in the right-hand margins.  May want to clean that up before finalizing it.

You'd think that seven years of production time thus far would mean he'd be able to get something out on time for Mother's Day if that was his intent, especially if it's the very first page of the entire venture, but why break the streak now, I guess.

[horridus]

4 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Ken has finally released the first page of TLSC.

And, once again, we're back to using photo backgrounds.  You'd think that seven years of production time thus far would mean he'd be able to devote a bit of effort into the opening page, but I guess not.  It kind of works in the upper right panel (which I guess is why he just directly copy/pasted that frame in the bottom middle panel), but the bottom left one just looks like a sticker was pasted over the photo.  It barely even tries to blend in.

Speaking of the bottom left, we get our first look at Lara-Su's tattoo there.  And suddenly I have to wonder if this is a Sonic spinoff or an MLP spinoff, because even as someone who doesn't watch the show, I know that's exactly where they have their marks.

Also, there's a smudge in the right-hand margins.  May want to clean that up before finalizing it.

Huzzah. Seven years, and we finally have the first page of the actual story, rather than putzing around with Captain Rocket Crotch and Double-O-Stinkbomb. A sappy, poorly colored, lazily concocted page that uses photographed backgrounds and amateurish shading. But hey, at least we now know what Lara's butt tattoo looks like, and like I said, its the first ACTUAL page to feature her after years of St. John and Taelor. 

I do ask though- where does this page stand in relation to this, then? 

Cause I gotta tell ya, whether this is page 1 or page 2? The implied transition between the two is just nonsensical to behold. 

 

4 hours ago, Tenko said:

Isn't it odd, he mentioned only 2 days ago that he was considering giving Lara-Su a tattoo while working on his latest page...

I'm sure he's not, as creators generally work on multiple parts of their project at once, and it's very rarely in beginning to end order, but the way he broadcasts his intentions, and then releases the content he's contemplating on a couple days later really makes it seem like he's just doing things on the seat of his pants sometimes. Yes creators change things on personal whim and sometimes last minute, but it's just the way he broadcasts it...I dunno it's hard to explain.

 

It's because his broadcasting of details like this comes off more as theatre than anything- its less like we're getting insight into his creative process and more like him speaking up every now and then to 'prove' that he's working super hard, honest guys! There's a certain level of deceptiveness to it, the showiness of a man who is not really  doing a whole lot but wants to convince people otherwise of the fact. 

[Sonic Fan J]

I've typically avoided posting on this thread but that opening page finally makes me feel like I have to, after all it is the opening page which introduces us to the main character and he gives us

6 hours ago, Tylinos said:

 

I try not to be overly critical if I have nothing constructive to add, but this is just bad. She's supposed to be sixteen, right? Then why does she look like an old woman? Further, seeing it in story context and not just on it's own it makes it even worse as it goes against one of the key components of main character design; the main characters should be visually pleasing to look at as they are the characters that the audience will see the most and as such the design needs to be one that the audience will not tire of looking at. Anyone who can take that image seriously and not tire of looking at it has my respect because that completely turns me away and makes it impossible for me to see a teenager. And while I know there have been subversion to my above example of part of the character design process (such as Neir from the US release) an unattractive character can still be made to be pleasing to the eye.

 

The main character of Accel World, Haru, and his digital avatar being a fine example.

What makes Lara-Su even worse than she already is though is not just the dissonance between her age and appearance, but that she is based off a mascot character who uses a cute design structure to begin with. If you can look at Lara-Su here and tell me that she looks cute to you, allow me to assure you that your perspective is very different from the core audience that Penders is trying to sell to. I can personally only wonder what his creative process is like to consider this marketable material.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

You know what? How about we play a game of analytical review and look more in-depth at this page. Barring all of the obvious art issues and everything else, let's look at this from a story perspective.

...

It's godawful.

Like, this is meant to be the first product in over a decade to feature Lara-Su. It's a different world, universe and continuity that's based on old comics from a decade again involved in a Sonic comic only purchasable in the US unless you happened to have a specialist comic shop near you. This opening page should be establishing the tone of the story, the world, the conflict, or more importantly, the main heroine of the story.

Who is this girl? Why is she on a beach? Who is her father? Why should we care? We don't know how the two were like together, so why should we shed any tears here? We haven't had time to build any type of relationship or establishment with the characters, so why should we give half a shit about what's happening now.  Lara-Su appears out of absolutely nowhere, no build-up, no hype, no nothing, and begins immediately starts exposition about her father's death. Why the fuck should I give a shit? I don't know who the characters are so why would I care about their death? 

Why should I care about Lara-Su? Not like I got a intro to her or her world, she can't be that important if she just randomly appears out of nowhere with no build-up and has nothing important to display about herself or her personality if she has to immediately discuss her father's passing in monologue form on some random beach.

As much as I dislike the story, take Mobius 25 Years Later for instance. It begins by establishing the world through Future Rotor's eyes. Someone who's travelling to visit an older Espio. This works as a reader substitute, someone who is exploring this new world the same as such and therefore can work as a somewhat decent intro to the story at hand. Even the first issue has Knuckles and Julie-Su having to simply convince their teenage daughter to come out of a locked room because she was angry over not being able to be a Guardian. We see Knuckles' temper flare up, before softening up and coaxing her to come out easier by appealing to her kind side and explaining he doesn't want her to be forced into the role like he was.

Mobius 25 Years Later is a godawful story with terrible and bland characters, but there was some half-decent attempts at world-building and character establishment, even if it was somewhat half-assed. If your opening page is nothing but exposition spoken plainly, then that is not a good look for the rest of the book.

Why not start the book earlier? Why not show Lara-Su and her family in their average lives first and let us build some kind of connection or establishment with them. Let us see Lara's relationship with Not-Knuckles first and let us see them together. Maybe the two are playful to one another, maybe the two have their own tempers and get on each other's nerves but still love each other as family, maybe have them conflicted but trying to come to a understanding, involve Julie in there and let the three work as a family-dynamic. Don't reveal Knuckles' death so early, let it build up when we've built some kind of establishing relationship with him and have it as a Act 1 twist once you've established the major conflict of the story and the world itself.

Why don't you establish Lara's character? What if she's rebellious and free-spirited like she was in M25YL and then having to own up to a bit more responsibility as Knuckles' death hits hard. Why don't we get an establishment to the world and it's order first and use that to establish Lara-Su proper before then jumping into Knuckles' death and Lara's griefing.

Better yet, why the fuck would you do something as stupid as Lara-Su being emotionless on a beach? Her father has seemingly died recently. Why don't you humanize her a bit and have her and Julie trying to work through their own retrospective grief periods before sending Lara on her mission. Let her actually be sad at Knuckles' passing. Show that she's a fucking living being and not some emotionless Mary-Sue robot who has to go on an adventure even though her father literally just passed away. Right now, all of this just shows another exposition filled mess with a bland emotionless character with no connection whatsoever. 

And then let's get onto the art. Lara-Su looks like an old woman and looks absolutely godawful at that. She's meant to be a teenager let looks like she's in her mid-40s. Her proportions is way off, and the creepy makeup on her is just making her look fifty times worse. I never thought I'd say the original redesigns looked better and yet here we are. It's a horrid mess of colour, inking and more that makes her look absolutely godawful. The background itself is absolutely lazy, Lara-Su looks so drastically different from the world around her that it sticks out like an absolute sore thumb and all in all, it's probably one of the worst pieces of art we've gotten yet.

[DabigRG]

7 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Ken has finally released the first page of TLSC.

And, once again, we're back to using photo backgrounds.  You'd think that seven years of production time thus far would mean he'd be able to devote a bit of effort into the opening page, but I guess not.  It kind of works in the upper right panel (which I guess is why he just directly copy/pasted that frame in the bottom middle panel), but the bottom left one just looks like a sticker was pasted over the photo.  It barely even tries to blend in.

Speaking of the bottom left, we get our first look at Lara-Su's tattoo there.  And suddenly I have to wonder if this is a Sonic spinoff or an MLP spinoff, because even as someone who doesn't watch the show, I know that's exactly where they have their marks.

Also, there's a smudge in the right-hand margins.  May want to clean that up before finalizing it.

That moment when you're thinking that the backgrounds look really good, only to realize it's photoshop.

I also noticed that her color's somehow look a lot better here than in previous renders.

Anyway, congratulations on getting Page 1 out and looking sorta good! How many pages is Shattered Tomorrows supposed to be again?

6 hours ago, Tenko said:

Isn't it odd, he mentioned only 2 days ago that he was considering giving Lara-Su a tattoo while working on his latest page...

I'm sure he's not, as creators generally work on multiple parts of their project at once, and it's very rarely in beginning to end order, but the way he broadcasts his intentions, and then releases the content he's contemplating on a couple days later really makes it seem like he's just doing things on the seat of his pants sometimes. Yes creators change things on personal whim and sometimes last minute, but it's just the way he broadcasts it...I dunno it's hard to explain.

 

Really now? What's up with him detailing her hind in a way that's just barely noticeable?

6 hours ago, dwitefry666 said:

So this is for the thing he's charging for right?

Cos...Lara-Su is awfully Sonic styled...

 

Hey, I don't know how many Sonic characters with pointy chins, Cutie marks, and that much backline showing you've seen in your time.

1 hour ago, horridus said:

Huzzah. Seven years, and we finally have the first page of the actual story, rather than putzing around with Captain Rocket Crotch and Double-O-Stinkbomb. A sappy, poorly colored, lazily concocted page that uses photographed backgrounds and amateurish shading. But hey, at least we now know what Lara's butt tattoo looks like, and like I said, its the first ACTUAL page to feature her after years of St. John and Taelor. 

I do ask though- where does this page stand in relation to this, then? 

Cause I gotta tell ya, whether this is page 1 or page 2? The implied transition between the two is just nonsensical to behold. 

 

I can't breathe! I can't breathe!

 

1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

I try not to be overly critical if I have nothing constructive to add, but this is just bad. She's supposed to be sixteen, right? Then why does she look like an old woman? Further, seeing it in story context and not just on it's own it makes it even worse as it goes against one of the key components of main character design; the main characters should be visually pleasing to look at as they are the characters that the audience will see the most and as such the design needs to be one that the audience will not tire of looking at. Anyone who can take that image seriously and not tire of looking at it has my respect because that completely turns me away and makes it impossible for me to see a teenager. 

To say nothing of the color scheme, which looks much better here than ever before, but still.

Starlight, she ain't.  

 

 

 

[dwitefry666]

30 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Hey, I don't know how many Sonic characters with pointy chins, Cutie marks, and that much backline showing you've seen in your time.

We clearly visit differnt parts of the internet

actually, on that, I did this:

Thought I'd post it here, I buggered up the top lip and try as i might just...couldn't...get...it..right. She also came out quite chunky, dunno how that happened....