Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I almost want to try to make a better logo/title sequence like I did with the older version of this a while back:

Thing is, I can't find the original PSD file for that so I'd have to start over from scratch.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

The fact that he has the audacity to name his entire "production studio" (is it really real??) after a concept from Sonic is still hilarious even by Ken Penders standards.

Now I want to watch that hilarious Lost Ones trailer again...

[horridus]

3 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Tangentially related, because I wouldn't be surprised at all if TLSC is published under the FIP branding (and because it speaks to the quality of Ken's work) :

Did...did anything even change at all?  Apart from maybe the font, this looks pretty much identical to how the logo looked in his teasers nearly a decade ago.  It still looks like an unfinished placeholder.  If he can't put the effort into simply tweaking and polishing an animation a little bit, how does he expect to finish the art for a seven book series?

It may have more polish, but at the end of the day it's still a jarring photo-realistic image of a clod of dirt and a massive reminder of how desperately this man clings to the past. 

Well, we're in February now, so that means we've only a month to go before he finally releases either the legendary app or this here other project of his. Maybe this time he'll surprise us, but history teaches otherwise. 

[SenEDDtor Missile]

He really could stand to make it more unique if he had made it a sci fi design, since that’s pretty much the bulk of his work in a nutshell.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

The fact that he has the audacity to name his entire "production studio" (is it really real??) after a concept from Sonic is still hilarious even by Ken Penders standards.

Yeah, I know, right?  

2 hours ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

The fact that he has the audacity to name his entire "production studio" (is it really real??) after a concept from Sonic is still hilarious even by Ken Penders standards.

Now I want to watch that hilarious Lost Ones trailer again...

You wish, Nanu Nanu!

(Also, does anyone else see "Street_Life.wmv" in the related videos?)

[HywelAtTheMoon]

Good lord, that was awful. I'll be putting this forward for my local bad film club. Judging by his past form though, Penders may well throw his toys out of the pram once he hears of it. 

[RedFox99]

Has anyone ever talked to Penders' son?

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Has anyone ever talked to Penders' son?

Penders’s family doesn’t have anything to do with the topic at hand and we really shouldn’t go down that road.

[horridus]

Ah yes, the Lost Ones trailer. I can still recall how, when he posted it on his forum and the forumgoers pointed out the issues with it, he stubbornly insisted it was on par with any production in Hollywood, even citing his usage of green screen as proof of this. Because evidently, using the same technique as professionals while not actually using it competently is enough to elevate a work into being the 'same' as a completed venture by an established company.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

29 minutes ago, horridus said:

Ah yes, the Lost Ones trailer. I can still recall how, when he posted it on his forum and the forumgoers pointed out the issues with it, he stubbornly insisted it was on par with any production in Hollywood, even citing his usage of green screen as proof of this. Because evidently, using the same technique as professionals while not actually using it competently is enough to elevate a work into being the 'same' as a completed venture by an established company.

To quote Tommy Wiseau in The Disaster Artist: "Is real Hollywood movie!" 

Somehow, I don't see Penders accepting how bad his movie is, and playing to it. 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

10 hours ago, Zaysho said:

Penders’s family doesn’t have anything to do with the topic at hand and we really shouldn’t go down that road.

I'm not contesting this decision, as I completely understand why it's been made. 

That said, it's not true that he has nothing to do with the topic at hand. We do know that his son's interest in Sonic is what supposedly led Penders to work on Sonic in the first place, so it's understandable that some people might be curious what he thinks of how things have gone, TLSC, etc.

But yeah, unless he publicly comes out and says something, it's probably best left to the imagination, rather than forum discussion.

[Zaysho]

34 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I'm not contesting this decision, as I completely understand why it's been made. 

That said, we do know that his son's interest in Sonic is what supposedly led Penders to work on Sonic in the first place, so it's understandable that some people might be curious what he thinks of how things have gone, TLSC, etc.

But yeah, unless he publicly comes out and says something, it's probably best left to the imagination, rather than forum discussion.

I responded to Redfox as soon as I woke up this morning since that was my first concern. But, yeah, if he says something that's interesting and relevant (or people have spoken to him specifically about this and want to share--just don't post his contacts), I don't really mind, nor do I mind say, mentioning or talking about Penders having his niece and nephew pose for "Sonic Live!" or how his kids probably inspired his work (ignoring the obvious problems like Penders's refusal to research or even use an actual Genesis controller as reference when he needed it). I don't think it's something we have to worry about regarding regulars in this thread, but I remember there was a concern among staff before I joined (I remember one instance but everyone else posting told that person to stop, but the whole thread got warned about it regardless), so I just want to curb possible concerns about anyone bugging his family or off-topic gossiping about Pen's personal life.

 

EDIT: removing off-topic stuff

[RedFox99]

Can anyone here name any redeeming qualities about Penders' work on the comics?

[Splash the Otter]

16 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Can anyone here name any redeeming qualities about Penders' work on the comics?

Elias Acorn and Geoffrey St John.

[Razule]

On 2/4/2018 at 9:22 PM, DabigRG said:

Yeah, I know, right?  

You wish, Nanu Nanu!

(Also, does anyone else see "Street_Life.wmv" in the related videos?)

Wait a minute... best selling?! Pff that obscure comic that got cancelled after one issue?! 

[Big Panda]

31 minutes ago, ElectroKyurem said:

Elias Acorn and Geoffrey St John.

If by redeeming you mean that he created the character in the first place to eventually be written better by other writers, then yes, Geoffrey is one of Ken's redeeming qualities.

[Big Panda]

But anyway, I have one. And it's one I've only ever seen people complain about before:

The story where Bunnie has her cybernetics upgraded. The story is about Bunnie have to her robotisized parts replaced because her immune system is rejecting them, completely eliminating any chance of her ever becoming fully flesh and blood again in the process. The story ends with the transplant being a success, and Bunnie admires her sleek, curvy new limbs before flying off happily.

When I saw people complaining about this, the part they took issue with was how Bunnie was supposedly giving off the message that "I'm never going to be a normal, fully-organic being again, but that's okay 'cos at least I have a sexy new bod", as if all that mattered now was that she was "sexy".

But I didn't see the moment like that at all. In my mind, I likened the situation to a war amputee making the best of their prosthetic limbs, with the message being "you can still be beautiful even if your body is unusual".

So yeah, people may have hated it, but I honestly thought it was one of Ken's rare moments of good writing. But that's just my opinion.

[Sidronas]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/962576907714703360

sorry to act as stoking the fire, but I hope that what he says get to Sega and they blacklist him from ever having anything to do with Sonic or Knuckles

5 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

 

But anyway, I have one. And it's one I've only ever seen people complain about before:

The story where Bunnie has her cybernetics upgraded. The story is about Bunnie have to her robotisized parts replaced because her immune system is rejecting them, completely eliminating any chance of her ever becoming fully flesh and blood again in the process. The story ends with the transplant being a success, and Bunnie admires her sleek, curvy never limbs before flying off happily.

When I saw people complaining about this, the part they took issue with was how Bunnie was supposedly giving off the message that "I'm never going to be a normal, fully-organic being again, but that's okay 'cos at least I have a sexy new bod", as if all that mattered now was that she was "sexy".

But I didn't see the moment like that at all. In my mind, I likened the situation to a war amputee making the best of their prosthetic limbs, with the message being "you can still be beautiful even if your body is unusual".

So yeah, people may have hated it, but I honestly thought it was one of Ken's rare moments of good writing. But that's just my opinion.

There were some good ideas among the mess he created. It was interesting in how the old design of robotnik transition into his "Eggman" design, pity it won't be referenced in Sonic history again

 

P.s. does anyone know how to embed tweets?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

7 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Can anyone here name any redeeming qualities about Penders' work on the comics?

It was good fodder for better writers to work with.

[DabigRG]

11 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Can anyone here name any redeeming qualities about Penders' work on the comics?

You know what, I actually liked a good bit of what he did and brought to the comic.  

For a few examples: The multiverse, Archimedes, the story where Valdez turned up roboticized, the Ebony Hare story, and The Felidae.

And let's be honest here, part of the reason a lot of people were so pissed when the lawsuit began affecting the comic was because that meant they'd lose many of his characters and the Knuckles Archives would got uncompleted unless he had a hand in it's continued release.

[horridus]

6 hours ago, Sidronas said:

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/962576907714703360

sorry to act as stoking the fire, but I hope that what he says get to Sega and they blacklist him from ever having anything to do with Sonic or Knuckles

Given that he launched a lawsuit against them for work he did on their comic, I sincerely doubt that this latest sampling of self-aggrandizement is going to make them dislike him any more than they already do, if they're paying attention to begin with. Nice to see his penchant for re-writing history is still intect though- at the time he was writing Knuckles, Knuckles was at the peak of his popularity and receiving a major push from SEGA, even receiving his own game. To say nothing of the repeated times that Penders made it clear that he was 'drawn' to Knuckles because he was a blank canvas he could do whatever he wanted with. 

And count me in the camp that says Penders only 'redeeming' characters and ideas became so at the hands of other writers, with his own efforts doing little towards that end. 

[QuantumEdge]

4 hours ago, horridus said:

Given that he launched a lawsuit against them for work he did on their comic, I sincerely doubt that this latest sampling of self-aggrandizement is going to make them dislike him any more than they already do, if they're paying attention to begin with. Nice to see his penchant for re-writing history is still intect though- at the time he was writing Knuckles, Knuckles was at the peak of his popularity and receiving a major push from SEGA, even receiving his own game. To say nothing of the repeated times that Penders made it clear that he was 'drawn' to Knuckles because he was a blank canvas he could do whatever he wanted with. 

And count me in the camp that says Penders only 'redeeming' characters and ideas became so at the hands of other writers, with his own efforts doing little towards that end. 

That's the thing with Ken: he'll always ignore crucial evidence and facts, so long as it keep his own tales seemingly sympathetic and well intentioned in the real world, or the fictional one.  What's weird though is how easy it is to poke gaping holes in his logic and yet he continues to spout off this kind of rubbish.  Doesn't he realise how any Joe Schmo can simply find out on the internet and discover his version of events is a load of hooey with minimal difficulty?

18 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

Can anyone here name any redeeming qualities about Penders' work on the comics?

Hmm, let's see.  Well, as others have said the good ideas he did cook up were better utilised by different people, but if I had to go with one thing that he did that deserves merit, I would say the slight adaptation of SegaSonic.  Really introduced some good dynamics, such as Fiona's bitterness, Mighty's guilt and how it finally gave the guy his own piece of action.  That said, I feel like it could've been longer to make it more emotionally impactful.

[Big Panda]

I'm honestly surprised that Ken even did a SEGASonic adaptation of his own volition. Like, Ken's written game-related stuff before, but those were because the higher-ups made him do it. Ken's pretty much proven that he'd happily write nothing but crazy sci-fi stories that had Sonic characters thrown in here and there with very little to do with the games if he had his way. And yet, there he was, writing a story based on one of the most obscure Sonic games out there that I'm surprised he was even aware of, and it couldn't possibly have been forced upon him by Sega because what would they have had to gain from it? Promoting an arcade game from half a decade ago that nobody could even play anymore?

[DabigRG]

16 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

I'm honestly surprised that Ken even did a SEGASonic adaptation of his own volition. Like, Ken's written game-related stuff before, but those were because the higher-ups made him do it. Ken's pretty much proven that he'd happily write nothing but crazy sci-fi stories that had Sonic characters thrown in here and there with very little to do with the games if he had his way. And yet, there he was, writing a story based on one of the most obscure Sonic games out there that I'm surprised he was even aware of, and it couldn't possibly have been forced upon him by Sega because what would they have had to gain from it? Promoting an arcade game from half a decade ago that nobody could even play anymore?

Yeah, that arc was kind of an odd anomaly. A pretty charitable one, granted, but still an anomaly.

The Espio vs Valdez story at least had a character he created as a support for Geoffrey at the helm.

If I had to guess from a middle-ground standpoint, I suppose it was simply part of a continuous move to give the Chaotix(who kinda functioned as Angel Island' Freedom Fighters) some spotlight since they were major supporting characters for Knuckles himself.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

9 hours ago, DabigRG said:

You know what, I actually liked a good bit of what he did and brought to the comic.  

For a few examples: The multiverse, Archimedes, the story where Valdez turned up roboticized, the Ebony Hare story, and The Felidae.

And let's be honest here, part of the reason a lot of people were so pissed when the lawsuit began affecting the comic was because that meant they'd lose many of his characters and the Knuckles Archives would got uncompleted unless he had a hand in it's continued release.

The multiverse... well, as with anything Penders, it's naturally an interesting concept whose potential was completely underutilized until put in the hands of someone else.

All I remember of it (not counting Blaze's dimension, which was post-Penders anyway) was basically being an excuse to do a parody Sonic version of the pop culture flavor of the month. And of course, it was an already proven concept through other works, so it wasn't even a particularly original idea in the first place. The main exception was the Anti-Mobius, which itself was a riff on Star Trek, and even that was pretty dull until Anti-Sonic became Scourge and basically had everyone assume new identities.

53 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

I'm honestly surprised that Ken even did a SEGASonic adaptation of his own volition. Like, Ken's written game-related stuff before, but those were because the higher-ups made him do it. Ken's pretty much proven that he'd happily write nothing but crazy sci-fi stories that had Sonic characters thrown in here and there with very little to do with the games if he had his way. And yet, there he was, writing a story based on one of the most obscure Sonic games out there that I'm surprised he was even aware of, and it couldn't possibly have been forced upon him by Sega because what would they have had to gain from it? Promoting an arcade game from half a decade ago that nobody could even play anymore?

I'm not convinced that his adaptation wasn't somewhat accidental. Or to put it another way, one of convenience. He probably had some idea in his head, and the pieces he'd heard people talking about (like Ray) just happened to fit what he wanted to do anyway, so why not make himself look good in the process?

So if he hadn't heard about SEGASonic the Hedgehog, we probably would have had a similar arc with Sonic and Fiona captured by Robotnik alongside, oh, I don't know-- Cling-on the Echidna instead of Ray, or something.