The Shadow Topic

[Phos]

Huh, shadow as a sort of dark Sonic? They never really did that, seems like for SA2 they kind of just made him look like Sonic and hoped we'd draw the parallels ourselves, and after that he's basically a new character with no particular relation to Sonic. Metal Sonic was clearly trying to beat Sonic at his own game in CD (finger wave, boss fight framed as a race), but for most of SA 2 Shadow was trying to pretend Sonic was inconsequential, basically trying to ignore him wherever possible.

Wait, what is shadow's character? What does he want, what does he value?

[ArtFenix]

 

Wait, what is shadow's character? What does he want, what does he value?

 

A question that can be asked about any other character besides Eggman, especially nowadays.

[Jolt_TH]

Wait, what is shadow's character? What does he want, what does he value?

As far as I can tell, he is sort of no-nonsense, more serious personality, doesn't mean he can't have his own sense of humour though. We went from wanting revenge to wanting to save humanity, currently he wants to fulfill Maria's wish which is enabling everyone on the planet to be happy aka. protecting the planet. He appears to value a few select individuals (Rouge, Omega, Maria, Gerald) as well as the promise he made to Maria. He also has respect for other characters such as Eggman (calling him Doctor, doesn't really snark at him ect.) and Sonic

[Eggman Robuttnik]

Alot of fans from other boards say they want Shadow to be lightened up and less serious. I kinda see where there going, but i kinda like the idea of a character in a world of whimsical and eccentric fun animals and machines and a crazy yet silly mad scientist being the epitomy of serious buisness as the symbol of a something really serious happening in the series. I really don't want to see that change. Generations was one of those games that really showed me that Shadow becomes less authentic to me. He can maybe have snarking and sarcasm but it has to be grim as he is.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Eggman Robuttnik

[Mr Useful]

Alot of fans from other boards say they want Shadow to be lightened up and less serious. I kinda see where there going, but i kinda like the idea of a character in a world of whimsical and eccentric fun animals and machines and a crazy yet silly mad scientist being the epitomy of serious buisness as the symbol of a something really serious happening in the series. I really don't want to see that change. Generations was one of those games that really showed me that Shadow becomes less authentic to me. He can maybe have snarking and sarcasm but it has to be grim as he is.

As long as grim doesn't turn into edgy and edgy doesn't turn into Shadow the Hedgehog(the game).

[Kuzu]

Huh, shadow as a sort of dark Sonic? They never really did that, seems like for SA2 they kind of just made him look like Sonic and hoped we'd draw the parallels ourselves, and after that he's basically a new character with no particular relation to Sonic. Metal Sonic was clearly trying to beat Sonic at his own game in CD (finger wave, boss fight framed as a race), but for most of SA 2 Shadow was trying to pretend Sonic was inconsequential, basically trying to ignore him wherever possible.

Wait, what is shadow's character? What does he want, what does he value?

 

I think the thing with Shadow is that he wasn't trying to be Sonic, unlike Metal Sonic. He outright calls Sonic a fake, and like you said doesn't really go out of his way to defeat him. Their similarities are mostly physical, but their personalities are vastly different.

 

As for the second question; at this point, who even knows anymore.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Azure Yakuzu

[amenably]

I like Shadow as a character, Sonic's rival and all that. Sure he has his bad moments but I'll be honest and say he can be really kickass at times. As for the game, I haven't played it. Ever since I've played Sonic Next-Gen a couple of years ago (and traded the game in just last year since I've realized how bad the game was), I've noticed that Shadow has aligned himself as a GUN agent - the same military organization who killed Maria, the most important person to Shadow. After that, I've been getting the impression of Shadow being a part of GUN, and to be honest, I'm not feeling it. Now I know Shadow wants to keep his promise to Maria and what not, and I understand that, but I sort of like Shadow when he's does things on his own. So, what do you think? Is Shadow better off working with GUN or as a loner?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Shadow's definitely another example of Sonic Team's writing blunders. Especially his ambiguous death scene; it wasn't because they confirmed he was alive (although some would be more than happy to argue otherwise), but the way they brought him back out of the blue with no explanation as to how he survived until we spend a full two games to get it at the very last minute after going through so much nonsense that wasn't relevant at the time.

 

At least they put a lid on that junk from ShTH and allowed him to simply be himself without all that connection to aliens nonsense, but it's stuck on his being now.

 

As of now, he's just like the rest of the cast in need of utilization and repair. He can certainly bring something to this series with his more ruthless and ambiguous motivations compared to the more heroic casts, hopping from the hero side to the antagonist side or fighting them both at the same time. He can be a major wild card when used right.

 

I think Shadow is better working for GUN so as to have more of an interaction with other characters, namely Rouge and Omega, but also to cross paths and jab with guys like Sonic whenever they clash. Not that it'll take away any chances of him being a loner, he can be given solo assignments. But I want more interaction as far as his character goes, and for him to have more of an attachment to things. He can still be grumpy, sardonic, dark, and I would add that he should be comically serious to lighten things up and add some humor to him. He can certainly do with a lot of fixing to him at this point.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Shadow. He is tricky. He was okay in Sonic Adventure 2 and his game but I dislike how one character was the reason why Shadow does what he does. Without her, he would be boring. I didnt feel for her death but I felt for his when he saved the world for his friend.

 

But when he was alive... the borefest began. it was cool finding his past, but now why is he needed? i know he's popular and everyone loves him but he fufilled his role. hes working for GUN and is on the hero side.... yawn. he was better off as a villian or a rival to Sonic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

it was cool finding his past, but now why is he needed?

How about for the same reason Knuckles and Amy are needed?

[Tornado]

I for one would rather have had Amy cease existing after Adventure 2 anyway, so perhaps not the best example.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I for one would rather have had Amy cease existing after Adventure 2 anyway, so perhaps not the best example.

Well you're an outlier, because there are many people will claim she's more needed by comparison to Shadow.

[Kuzu]

For all intents and purpose, almost none of the characters aside from Sonic, Tails, and Eggman are needed according to Sega, so its kinda moot to argue who's "more important" when none of them are.

[Sparky]

In Shadow the Hedgehog 2005, SEGA decided to give Shadow the gun shooting mechanic because fans wanted Sonic to have a gun. SEGA thought that a gun wouldn't fit Sonic's character but it would fit Shadow's. This in and of itself is a perfect reason for his involvement in G.U.N. as a government agent. Sonic's characterization as a free spirit who lives by his own rules and doesn't seem to care for the law ("NO COPYRIGHT LAW IN THE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO STOP ME!) would NEVER allow him to work for the government. But Shadow's characterization in Sonic Adventure 2 was basically an agent fulfilling the commands of Gerald and the wishes of Maria. And it was even revealed in Shadow '05 that Shadow was intended (by Black Doom) to complete a certain assignment for Black Doom at a given time (collecting the Chaos Emeralds). So Shadow choosing to work for G.U.N. and completing missions assigned to him by Commander Tower makes perfect sense to his character instead of wandering aimlessly around the Earth like Sonic usually does.

[Nepenthe]

There doesn't really exist a dichotomy between "nomad" and "agent." Shadow doesn't need to be either; and frankly, considering the whole point of his arcs was to stress that he possesses free will- and thus the capacity to do the right thing- among characters, both good and bad, who believe they can manipulate him into doing what they want him to do, does in ways contradict the fact that he would proceed to be a subordinate agent of any kind. It also becomes irrelevant as well when you realize that Shadow's status as an agent has little impact on the games in which it's even mentioned; he inevitably just goes on to do his own thing without any orders whatsoever.

[Sparky]

There doesn't really exist a dichotomy between "nomad" and "agent." Shadow doesn't need to be either; and frankly, considering the whole point of his arcs was to stress that he possesses free will- and thus the capacity to do the right thing- among characters, both good and bad, who believe they can manipulate him into doing what they want him to do, does in ways contradict the fact that he would proceed to be a subordinate agent of any kind. It also becomes irrelevant as well when you realize that Shadow's status as an agent has little impact on the games in which it's even mentioned; he inevitably just goes on to do his own thing without any orders whatsoever.

But then he'd just be Sonic.

[Nepenthe]

No, you're simply ignoring all of the tangible differences between the characters' personalities and motives, as well as my actual argument.

[Sparky]

No, you're simply ignoring all of the tangible differences between the characters' personalities and motives, as well as my actual argument.

Working for the Government allows Shadow fulfill Maria's wish in his own way and protect the planet. It also allows Shadow to make use of his power against whoever is in his way. Shadow would be working for G.U.N. because he chooses to.

[Nepenthe]

Working for the government is not a prerequisite for protecting the planet. He did it three times before we knew he'd become an agent. Same with "using his power;" he doesn't need GUN to strut his stuff.

[Sparky]

Working for the government is not a prerequisite for protecting the planet. He did it three times before we knew he'd become an agent. Same with "using his power;" he doesn't need GUN to strut his stuff.

What I meant was it allows Shadow to put his abilities to use all the time, because other wise he'd be doing nothing while Sonic handles every danger Eggman unleashes unless it involves him in some way.

[Nepenthe]

That really makes no sense unless you're under the assumption that Shadow possesses no agency of his own to simply go and provide his services without the need of a presiding governmental body. But we know this is false because he simply saved the world in SA2, Heroes, and his own game.

[Zaysho]

I realize quoting one of the Archie comics might negate my argument to some, but I look at Shadow's reasoning for being with GUN simply out of convenience rather than because he thinks they're strong or can further his goals.

 

When he tried to recruit Gamma (SU#3), and Gamma questions what GUN could offer the Ultimate Lifeform, Shadow states: "A safe place to rest, when I need it. Information, so my time isn't wasted searching. Access to the world with greater efficiency." Yes, he can just have Rouge get him the information, but he probably joined GUN for direct access to those resources. I doubt if GUN issues questionable orders he'd go along with it without having some moral issue (and would likely ignore the mission if it didn't fit with his own moral code). This isn't very far off from SEGA!Shadow after his own game.

 

He can protect the world with or without GUN, and for whatever reason, other than SEGA just not using the character's potential, seems to see GUN as an opportunity to directly serve and protect people in a more efficient way.

[Vertekins]

Archie Shadow had his respect for Maria Flanderized to such an unbelievably stupid degree that his future self made her an object of literal WORSHIP.

 

 

The above image is swear-to-god not edited in any way.

 

Bringing him up as an example to back up something about Game Shadow's leanings is about as credible as saying that, say, SatAM is a credible Sonic cartoon.

 

I love Game!Shadow for multiple reasons and personally wish that aspects of Archie!Shadow stay as far the hell away from him as possible.

[Nepenthe]

I realize quoting one of the Archie comics might negate my argument to some, but I look at Shadow's reasoning for being with GUN simply out of convenience rather than because he thinks they're strong or can further his goals.

 

When he tried to recruit Gamma (SU#3), and Gamma questions what GUN could offer the Ultimate Lifeform, Shadow states: "A safe place to rest, when I need it. Information, so my time isn't wasted searching. Access to the world with greater efficiency." Yes, he can just have Rouge get him the information, but he probably joined GUN for direct access to those resources. I doubt if GUN issues questionable orders he'd go along with it without having some moral issue (and would likely ignore the mission if it didn't fit with his own moral code). This isn't very far off from SEGA!Shadow after his own game.

 

He can protect the world with or without GUN, and for whatever reason, other than SEGA just not using the character's potential, seems to see GUN as an opportunity to directly serve and protect people in a more efficient way.

 

Well, the convenience argument is partly negated by the fact that you said yourself that Rouge can stand to get him any information he needs on her own, as well as offer him shelter and safety. It's also a completely wasted plot point because unlike the comic (I presume) or even Rouge's performance in SA2, GUN's orders have very little relevance on how Shadow acts throughout the games anyway, either because Sega doesn't care much to keep a consistent relationship between him and the agency or because the circumstances get so drastic and out-of-control that Shadow is nonetheless forced to break off contact anyway and act as he generally would without them. They're less of a convenience and more of an ironic factoid they threw in perhaps to downplay his rampant misanthropy. I don't see how they're all that efficient either if the Earth has more or less been saved time and time again by unemployed, undisciplined teenagers and children, so the question becomes: under the current circumstances of the games, what can GUN offer Shadow that Rouge herself cannot?

[Sparky]

Well, the convenience argument is partly negated by the fact that you said yourself that Rouge can stand to get him any information he needs on her own, as well as offer him shelter and safety. It's also a completely wasted plot point because unlike the comic (I presume) or even Rouge's performance in SA2, GUN's orders have very little relevance on how Shadow acts throughout the games anyway, either because Sega doesn't care much to keep a consistent relationship between him and the agency or because the circumstances get so drastic and out-of-control that Shadow is nonetheless forced to break off contact anyway and act as he generally would without them. They're less of a convenience and more of an ironic factoid they threw in perhaps to downplay his rampant misanthropy. I don't see how they're all that efficient either if the Earth has more or less been saved time and time again by unemployed, undisciplined teenagers and children, so the question becomes: under the current circumstances of the games, what can GUN offer Shadow that Rouge herself cannot?

Rouge works for G.U.N. so it's almost the same thing.