The Shadow Topic

[Sega DogTagz]

None of these more unusual moves have really stayed consistently with Sonic, while at the very least Chaos Control and Chaos Spear appear to be mainstays for Shadow. Chaos Blast I'm not so sure about, but I know I don't care much for it.

If you want to stick to moves with staying power, than that changes everything. We can throw the one shots and specialty moves out the window (Chaos Boost and Lance for Shadow., Magic hands ect for Sonic) and basically focus on Chaos Spear, Chaos Control and the Unleashed Movepool.

Meh. Its not much fun to speculate on the issue if you want to handicap the playing field like that.... but I still maintain that Shadow hasn't pulled off a quickstep or the like.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Kuzu]

I know that these extras give him little advantage in a fight against Sonic, but they do make him more unique. My posts stemmed from Diogenes' question asking what abilities are unique to Sonic, and the fact that it is a difficult question to answer.

Come to think of it, and slightly related: Silver has the ability to teleport and use projectile attacks as of Generations. Chaos Spear may look different but Silver can essentially do what Shadow can do minus what Sonic can do... in addition to what else he can do. =p

I like to think that its Sonic's attitude and not his abilities that make him unique, I mean its like DBZ, everybody can shoot energy waves and fly so its kind of like that.

[Pawn]

I like to think that its Sonic's attitude and not his abilities that make him unique, I mean its like DBZ, everybody can shoot energy waves and fly so its kind of like that.

I agree that their characters make them unique. In terms of abilities, I meant, it's difficult to find any that are unique to Sonic.

[Kuzu]

I agree that their characters make them unique. In terms of abilities, I meant, it's difficult to find any that are unique to Sonic.

I'm saying that it really shouldn't matter, Sonic is still among the fastest and most resourceful in the cast, and Shadow's presence really shouldn't change taht.

[Pawn]

I'm saying that it really shouldn't matter, Sonic is still among the fastest and most resourceful in the cast, and Shadow's presence really shouldn't change taht.

I don't disagree. I wasn't saying it makes him any less of a character.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Lungo

[Diogenes]

You might not weigh them equally, but you shouldn’t discount them as if they were nothing. If that were the case, then this arguments line of thought would have no end.

No, it has an end, and the end is when the characters stop having the same underlying abilities. It's not that Sonic and Shadow both have some degree of agility, running skill, and spinning ability, but that they have essentially identical agility, running, and spinning. On the other hand, while Sonic and Shadow both have the ability to use Chaos Control, I would not say they have equal skill with it. For Shadow to quick step would only require him to apply the skills he already has. For Sonic to use Chaos Blast would require him to practice his chaos energy wielding skills, if it's even possible for him to reach that level.

Besides, some of these moves aren’t exactly compatible with Shadow in the first place. I imagine the quick-step would require a plant foot…

Or a concentrated rocket burst. But I don't think there's much productive discussion in trying to work out exactly how the characters would realistically achieve these moves, considering we're talking about a blue hedgehog who runs at the speed of sound. The important point is that the series has portrayed them as being equal or very nearly so in the areas of speed and agility.

the bounce is kind of anatomy busting. I wouldn’t grant that kind ability to any living thing without proof first.

So what does Sonic have that the artificially created and supposedly immortal guy who can duplicate almost every other move he's done doesn't, that allows him to bounce?

Shadow drives tanks that were designed to be driven. Sonic pulls chaos control out of a token device build as a shoddy guise to an unlimited power source.

I'm not going to say they're entirely equal, but I think it's a bit much to assume Sonic's skill at improvisation is on some entirely different level than Shadow's, or of any other character, really. Is he better at it than most? Sure. Is it something clearly identifiable as "his thing"? I wouldn't go that far.

I’m a ton more impressed by the guy who got something out of nothing rather than the guy who can read an instruction manual.

Can we maybe try to keep this in the realm of "things that actually happened"?

But it does give us a pretty good idea of what Super Sonic is capable of.

Not really. We don't know how this ability works. I can't say I'd be willing to guess as to how it works, or how he could use whatever that is to benefit himself.

We shouldn’t be in the business of using Shadow’s hovering as a knock against Sonic.

Why not, if it's true?

At the moment, Sonic can run across water and Shadow can’t.

No, Shadow hasn't. There's a world of difference between the two. Especially keeping in mind that the games Shadow has been playable in don't let Sonic run over water either.

Either way, not that Shadow couldn’t navigate a body of water, but he certainly lacks the ability to run the 40 across a lake.

In so much as he runs at all, yes, I would say he most certainly can.

If you want to stick to moves with staying power, than that changes everything.

It's not a matter of what consistently shows up in the games, but of what the character can be expected to have available to him. Sonic may have been good at using all the different "things" he's encountered over the course of the series, but it's not as if he's going to just pull an Extreme Gear, the World Rings, and a fragment of Dark Gaia's energy out of his ass. On the other hand Shadow's chaos powers are moves that he has learned; the fact that one doesn't appear in the next game doesn't mean he's forgotten how to do it.

[Sega DogTagz]

Ewwww.

I’m gonna need to address something as a whole, and then I’ll go back at look at it piece by piece as I normally do.

No, it has an end, and the end is when the characters stop having the same underlying abilities. It's not that Sonic and Shadow both have some degree of agility, running skill, and spinning ability, but that they have essentially identical agility, running, and spinning. On the other hand, while Sonic and Shadow both have the ability to use Chaos Control, I would not say they have equal skill with it. For Shadow to quick step would only require him to apply the skills he already has. For Sonic to use Chaos Blast would require him to practice his chaos energy wielding skills, if it's even possible for him to reach that level.

Or a concentrated rocket burst. But I don't think there's much productive discussion in trying to work out exactly how the characters would realistically achieve these moves, considering we're talking about a blue hedgehog who runs at the speed of sound. The important point is that the series has portrayed them as being equal or very nearly so in the areas of speed and agility.

So what does Sonic have that the artificially created and supposedly immortal guy who can duplicate almost every other move he's done doesn't, that allows him to bounce?

I'm not going to say they're entirely equal, but I think it's a bit much to assume Sonic's skill at improvisation is on some entirely different level than Shadow's, or of any other character, really. Is he better at it than most? Sure. Is it something clearly identifiable as "his thing"? I wouldn't go that far.

Can we maybe try to keep this in the realm of "things that actually happened"?

Not really. We don't know how this ability works. I can't say I'd be willing to guess as to how it works, or how he could use whatever that is to benefit himself.

Why not, if it's true?

No, Shadow hasn't. There's a world of difference between the two. Especially keeping in mind that the games Shadow has been playable in don't let Sonic run over water either.

In so much as he runs at all, yes, I would say he most certainly can.

Dude, that is a massive double standard.

If you are so insistent on labeling the moves Shadow “can’t do” as moves he “hasn’t done yet”, then why are you barring Sonic from the same conclusion? If you want to grant Shadow the benefit of the doubt on moves like the bounce and the quick step on the basis that they are both speedy little hedgehogs then why are you so hesitant to do the same for Sonic’s wielding of Chaos Blast when you know full well both are pretty handy when it comes to chaos energy.

You can’t bring this particular argument to the table. If you’re willing to grant passes for probabilities than this session will not end. Soon we’ll be arguing that Sonic can use Chaos Blast because he’s a quick study and has the energy to burn. From there someone can pull arguments out of their ass about how Sonic can probably phase through walls, or he probably has vastly superior stamina…… it. Wont. End.

Same underlining abilities or not, either you give both Sonic and Shadow that same benefit of the doubt, or you give it to neither. Use the same metric for both or don't use it at all. In this case, it’s not productive to give it to either of them. You of all people should know that it’s not right to give one character a pass on this issue over another. You called out another poster on the topic not a page ago.

No, it has an end, and the end is when the characters stop having the same underlying abilities. It's not that Sonic and Shadow both have some degree of agility, running skill, and spinning ability, but that they have essentially identical agility, running, and spinning. On the other hand, while Sonic and Shadow both have the ability to use Chaos Control, I would not say they have equal skill with it. For Shadow to quick step would only require him to apply the skills he already has. For Sonic to use Chaos Blast would require him to practice his chaos energy wielding skills, if it's even possible for him to reach that level.

It has no end because the series has introduced so many fringe abilities that this concept boarders on the ridiculous.

I also would like you address how your chaos blast example isn’t a double standard. If Shadow can repurpose his abilities into a quick step, why can’t Sonic (the more resourceful of the two anyway) do the same and turn a Chaos Control into a Chaos Blast? It’s not like he struggled to learn the first one. Took him about 2 seconds.

Dare I say he simply hasn’t yet? Screw that. Its not even worth beating that point home.

Or a concentrated rocket burst. But I don't think there's much productive discussion in trying to work out exactly how the characters would realistically achieve these moves, considering we're talking about a blue hedgehog who runs at the speed of sound. The important point is that the series has portrayed them as being equal or very nearly so in the areas of speed and agility.

Most Sonic characters are built out of the same mold. They are almost all fast and agile. It’s the small differences that set them apart. Moves like the Bounce, QuickStep, ect.

So what does Sonic have that the artificially created and supposedly immortal guy who can duplicate almost every other move he's done doesn't, that allows him to bounce?

Bling

I'm not going to say they're entirely equal, but I think it's a bit much to assume Sonic's skill at improvisation is on some entirely different level than Shadow's, or of any other character, really. Is he better at it than most? Sure. Is it something clearly identifiable as "his thing"? I wouldn't go that far.

He picked up a sword and bested the Knights of the Round Table, some of the most revered swordsman in history

He picked up an AirBoard and knocked off the Legendary Wind Master, leader of a clan boasting generations of extreme gear experience.

He got sucked into the Arabian Nights, left with his name on the cover

He learned Shadow’s signature move with ease

Used Dark Gaia’s evil energy against him/it/whatever

Blah….blah….. blah……

Can we maybe try to keep this in the realm of "things that actually happened"?

No Problem.

Shadow drove a truck down the street and a hang-glider though the air. Sonic used Chaos Control, back when nobody else but Shadow could.

Who impressed you more?

Not really. We don't know how this ability works. I can't say I'd be willing to guess as to how it works, or how he could use whatever that is to benefit himself.

We know Super Sonic hasn’t reached his limit yet, while Super Shadow has. We may not know how that ability works, but we do know enough to establish a scale where Shadow is on the low end and Sonic is on the other.

And we dang well know how this can benefit Sonic. Since when is having more power reserves not a clear and obvious benefit?

Why not, if it's true?

Because you are intentionally using it out of context.

Sonic’s ability to spindash through boulders isn’t a knock on Knuckles ability to punch through them. In that same light, Shadow’s ability to fly over water can’t be held above Sonic’s pension to run over it.

Even if they accomplish the same goal, they are unmistakenably two different abilities.

It's not a matter of what consistently shows up in the games, but of what the character can be expected to have available to him. Sonic may have been good at using all the different "things" he's encountered over the course of the series, but it's not as if he's going to just pull an Extreme Gear, the World Rings, and a fragment of Dark Gaia's energy out of his ass. On the other hand Shadow's chaos powers are moves that he has learned; the fact that one doesn't appear in the next game doesn't mean he's forgotten how to do it.

Sonic doesn’t forget the things he’s learned either. If he see’s a branch on the ground, he could bust out a pretty good Black Knight impression. Plus, he’s got a genie on call. Both Sonic and Shadow can do quite a bit when you start bringing in the magic tokens, the only difference is Sonic has quite a few more goodies than just the Chaos Emeralds.

If you want to widen the scope of the survey, feel free. Just don’t widen it to Sonic Battle territory. While that would provide more than a few different abilities, its so off the wall its not even worth it.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Diogenes]

If you are so insistent on labeling the moves Shadow “can’t do” as moves he “hasn’t done yet”, then why are you barring Sonic from the same conclusion?

[Sega DogTagz]

I am basing my views on the plausibility of the character being able to pull off a move based on their current abilities. Again: Chaos Blast vs Quick Step. Sonic has rarely used any kind of chaos powers (unless you're going to lump Super forms in with that). Shadow was designed to use the emeralds, and chaos powers are his specialty. I don't expect Sonic to be able to use chaos powers to the same extent that Shadow can. Sonic can use the Quick Step because of his superhuman speed, agility, reaction time, etc. Shadow has repeatedly been shown and stated to be roughly equal to Sonic in these areas. I would expect Shadow to be able to Quick Step roughly on par with Sonic.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Darth InVaders]

Show don't tell...

Here is a near exhaustive list of Chaos Control uses; also includes important quotes and examples of Chaos Emeralds' power being drawn or given to things within the proximity but without physical contact

Classic Games

- MANUALS: Chaos Emeralds spread their power throughout entire islands (especially South Island which moved through the ocean because of their power) and almost always doing this while being in Special Zones (interdimensional torsions)

Sonic Adventure 2

- MANUAL: DC, "Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds"

- MANUAL: GC, "Shadow is able to harness the power of the Chaos Emerald to warp time and space"

- CUTSCENE: Shadow first introduced Chaos Control to Sonic holding Emerald and calling out Chaos Control

- SCRIPT: Sonic, "It's not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp"

- CUTSCENE: Shadow escapes afterward holding Emerald but without calling out name

- CUTSCENE: Shadow saves Rouge and escapes an exploding island (a warp of large distance) with Rouge holding Emeralds while Shadow is across the room - no physical contact made - (and they may have even gone all the way up to ARK) calling out Chaos Control

- CUTSCENE: Sonic uses Chaos Control with fake Emerald to save himself, unknown if called out name

- SCRIPT: Shadow,"It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn't it? But... there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake."

- GAMEPLAY: Sonic has fake Emerald on person as he uses Chaos Control in fight; fake Emerald close to Shadow as he uses Chaos Control in fight as well

- CUTSCENE: Biolizard warps large distance from core of ARK to tip of Cannon with Emeralds sitting on nearby Shrine without calling out Chaos Control - actually it just does its usual scream and Shadow identifies it as Chaos Control (Sonic & Shadow then call Chaos Emeralds over to them without physical contact - Knuckles stands dumbfounded, staring)

- CUTSCENE: Super Shadow & Super Sonic create combined super Chaos Control with Emeralds on either of their persons while calling out name

Sonic Heroes

- MANUAL: "...and can use a technique known as 'Chaos Control' to distort time & space using Chaos Emeralds."

- GAMEPLAY: Shadow pulls out unexplained extra 8th Chaos Emerald (this Emerald can be pulled out before his team collects any of the official 7 Emeralds) for his team's Team Blast to use to induce Chaos Control while calling out name

- GAMEPLAY: Metal Overlord induces Chaos Control with Emeralds nearby on Team Super Sonic while calling out its name

Shadow the Hedgehog

- GAMEPLAY: Shadow is unable to use Chaos Control before collecting 1st Emerald at beginning of 1st stage (without cheating) and is able to use through the rest of regular game while calling out name with Emerald(s) on person

- CUTSCENES: Shadow has Emeralds on person and moves around often distant places with what looks like Chaos Control but name is not called out; Black Doom also sends Shadow to different distant places using what looks like Chaos Control while Emeralds close by on Shadow's person - most of these cutscenes are not canon but "what if" scenarios

- CUTSCENE: Black Doom uses full power Chaos Control with all 7 Emeralds but never touches any while calling out name

- GAMEPLAY: Shadow is still able to use Chaos Control while calling out name for final story level after all Emeralds were just moments before stolen by Black Doom, Emeralds may or may not still be close by (unable to prove either way, Black Doom floats away from Shadow in previous cutscene, no Chaos Control warp seen)

- CUTSCENE: Black Doom escapes Shadow using what looks like Chaos Control without calling out name, Emeralds hover above him without physical contact (Shadow then calls Emeralds over to him without physical contact)

- GAMEPLAY: Devil Doom uses Chaos Control while calling out name with the Emeralds close by on Super Shadow's person

- CUTSCENE: Super Shadow uses Chaos Control with Emeralds on person while calling out name to send Black Comet into space

Sonic the Hedgehog 06

- CUTSCENE: Shadow disappears into a flash at beginning of story in what looks like Chaos Control but no known Emeralds nearby and Chaos Control not called out

- CUTSCENE: Shadow & Sonic use Chaos Control with an Emerald on each of their persons while calling out name to get back from future to present

- CUTSCENE: Shadow uses Chaos Control with Emerald on person while calling out name to fight Silver, then Shadow and Silver both use Chaos Control with an Emerald on each of their persons while calling out name

- SCRIPT: Shadow, "With a Chaos Emerald's power, I control time and space"

- CUTSCENE: Shadow uses Chaos Control with Emerald on person while calling out name to aid in sealing Mephiles

- CUTSCENE: Shadow & Silver use Chaos Control with an Emerald on each of their persons while calling out name to get back from past to present

- CUTSCENE: Sonic & Silver use Chaos Control with an Emerald on each of their persons while calling out name to open space-time rift

Sonic Battle

- CUTSCENE: at beginning of Shadow's story, Shadow flash back to before game starts, Shadow uses Chaos Control to visit Gizoid with Chaos Emerald on person while calling out name (Shadow has Emerald on him from before the beginning of game until near the end of his story and the game)

- GAMEPLAY: according to cards, many of Shadow's moves based on Chaos Control; Shadow is still able to use these moves after giving his Emerald to Emerl the Gizoid, however the only times he uses moves are in fights with the Gizoid so Emeralds remain close by

- GAMEPLAY: Gizoid has Emerald from start of game's story until its destruction, any moves it copies from Shadow are used with Emerald(s) on person

Sonic Advance 3

- CUTSCENE: Eggman uses Emerald in a machine to induce Chaos Control breaking world apart

Sonic Rivals 1&2

- MANUAL: "Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..."

- CUTSCENE: Metal Sonic is near a portal that needs all 7 Chaos Emeralds' power to open when only 6 are confirmed to be close by, but it opens mysteriously (because Metal Sonic has the 7th Emerald hidden inside it)

- CUTSCENE: Metal Sonic rips itself open to give Shadow its Chaos Emerald which Shadow uses to induce Chaos Control while calling name

Sonic Unleashed

- CUTSCENE: Sonic calls the Emeralds, which are scattered around Gaia Collusus's body (which is so large that Sonic fits in its eye), to him for Super transformation

Sonic Channel

- "He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds"

So to show the physical proximity argument: the Emeralds' power can effect large distances of an entire island; empower Super form transformations without physical contact; Shadow has warped himself and Rouge a large distance with no physical contact with the nearby Emeralds in Rouge's arms, way larger than the "short distance teleports" that are argued to be capable of being done without Chaos Emeralds; Biolizard has warped a pretty big distance from the ARK core to the cannon tip while the Emeralds are all several feet away (the cannon is about as long as the radius of the ARK's round bottom - as math holds it is half of ARK's diameter which, to hold those big ass stages, is pretty big; also according to the map of the ARK from the cutscene, there is a big room between the core and the base of the cannon) is also way larger than a "short distance teleport"; if you feel like counting those likely non-canon what-if "teleports" by Black Doom as Chaos Control during the regular part of Shadow's game, they're also way larger than the "short distance teleports"; also other games like Rivals conform to this (see above) despite their questionable canonicity; and of course like I've pointed out Black Doom warped the entire Black Comet while indisputably using all 7 Emeralds with no physical contact to any of them

Also gotta wonder what Silver was thinking in Sonic06 as he considered sealing Blaze in another dimension by using Chaos Control - he wound up his arm like he was going to do it... but Blaze was the one holding 2 Emeralds, he had none... can anyone who does not believe that Emeralds within the proximity cannot have their power drawn and used by the characters explain it?

And then there is the whole part that the argument that Chaos Control does not need any Emeralds (or fake Emeralds as suitable substitutes) is contradicting the "Word of God" from the series creators themselves Sonic Team, a complete breakdown of the quotes:

-"...he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp" clearly means the Emerald is the enabler and power source of Chaos Control, even says "must be" as if there is no other way

-"...there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake." Shadow is clearly surprised about suitable substitutes for the enabler and power source of Chaos Control (makes absolutely no sense if his body is one), even says "no way" for it to be possible confirming previous quote

-"With a Chaos Emerald's power, I control time and space" clearly means the Emerald is the enabler - notice the singular "a" in front of "Chaos Emerald" - he even holds up the Emerald to reference it; if he was saying "my power" or "my body's power" that would be different

-"He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds" says nothing about Emeralds enhancing an existing ability, clearly Emeralds are the standard tool with which to use it - furthermore check out the use of the word "using" which has the suffix "-ing" - the present participle or continuing aspect -ing suffix being used this way means this ability is always used this way (with Chaos Emeralds or fake Chaos Emeralds - the only suitable substitute to appear in the games); if it was rewritten with "can use" or "can be done using" it would be different

-"Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds" again, Emeralds shown to be standard tool; also look at the word "allows" which comes directly in front of a full phrase that includes "using Chaos Emeralds" (the return of "using" too)

-"Shadow is able to harness the power of the Chaos Emerald to warp time and space" harness does not mean create; so clearly the source of said power and the enabler is the Emerald, not Shadow's body

- "...and can use a technique known as 'Chaos Control' to distort time & space using Chaos Emeralds." using the word "using" again, don't mix up that "can" which is obviously hooked to using the Chaos Control technique itself while using the Chaos Emeralds is a detail of said technique

-"Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..." so, assuming Shadow actually does not need Emeralds, the power to use the Emeralds is separate from the ability to use Chaos Control, insinuating that one must possess the power to use the Emeralds to perform Chaos Control with Chaos Emeralds even if they can use Chaos Control without them... so based on how this quote is glorifying how Shadow can use the Emeralds to enhance his existing Chaos Control, theoretically there can exist those that can use Chaos Control without Emeralds but do not have the ability to enhance their Chaos Control with Emeralds... that does not make sense; an easier way to look at it is how Sonic Team intended it

Bottom line, Shadow needs energy from a Chaos Emerald or a suitable substitute to use Chaos Control, he can draw this energy from them without physical contact if they are within the proximity (however large that may be). One example does not change canon especially when it not only conflicts with the majority of other evidence (especially cutscenes, scripts, and official profiles) just like Peter Parker's accidental renaming as Peter Palmer never came to mean anything, it is also ambiguous and from a wildly messy game; and gameplay is generally weak evidence anyway (for reasons explained earlier). I'm done with this since everybody is miserable and several are dismissively trying to drag my name through the dirt as "delusional", anyone still unconvinced whatever, but I'll still throw a correction every time someone tries to claim Shadow doesn't need Emeralds.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Darth InVaders

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

^Dude, just shut up. Seriously, we've had enough.

You are going through all of these quotes and manuals to list examples prove us wrong, and yet we've given you cutscenes and examples that show it's possible to perform abilities without a chaos emerald. On top of that, you're giving us examples of cutscenes to prove that he needs one, and being completely hypocritical to boot when we did the exact same thing to you to show otherwise, claiming "One example does not change canon when it conflicts with majority of other evidence" when it not only did one example change things, it did it more than once in the series. Only a extreme minority would say otherwise, and you are practically the first we've seen on these message boards and the first I've seen on the entire internet.

Even I can admit when I'm wrong, and I'm stubborn as it is. You on the other hand just can't seem to admit when you're wrong when people show you something that proves you differently, either that or you're trolling. You have a hell of an ego, dude, because you're being even more ridiculous than before.

Edited February 27, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Blacklightning]

I wouldn't even go as far as to say that a lack of an Emerald even makes Shadow especially weaker, considering it's literally never made a single bit of difference in gameplay whether or not he has one (or more, as the case may be) on his person. Everything the Emeralds are useful for extends to cutscene power and nothing more - hardly surprising even when you're not talking about Shadow explicitly, considering the Emeralds themselves only exist as generic plot coupons and a set of blatant Deus Ex Machinas for the most part.

If I had to choose a specific example, I'd like to point out the fact that Shadow's Hero/Dark guages still rise long before you nab the first possible Emerald in ShTH's Westopolis - which feasibly means that had he the opportunity to fill either gauge beforehand, he'd still be able to Chaos Boost (and subsequently, Blast or Control, depending on alignment) without ever possessing an Emerald. Or if we need something much more damning, let's not forget the start of Last Story - not only is Shadow still able to Chaos Control despite Black Doom having stolen the entire set of Chaos Emeralds, it is actually a requirement of the level design to progress. In gameplay Shadow has always had his entire selection of abilities available to him seperate of the emeralds - no amount of cutscene interference changes that.

[Cyrus]

Shadow the Hedgehog for the PS2 was my very first console Sonic game.

[Sega DogTagz]

Shadow the Hedgehog for the PS2 was my very first console Sonic game.

Well.... your still here now, so more power to you.

[Cyrus]

Well.... your still here now, so more power to you.

? I was just sharing.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

• Shadow was created using some of the Emeralds power. He was brought to life using Black Doom's blood and created from some other unknown process. We can assume that the power required to create an "ultimate life-form" came from the Chaos Emeralds. It makes sense and fits the story fairly well.
  

Huh. Guess that explains why the Chaos Emeralds disappear after every game...wait...

How do they teleport themselves?! They're rocks for pete's sake! Unless they are sentient...

[Sega DogTagz]

? I was just sharing.

Oh its cool.

If you stuck around through Shad's game then you earned you badges so-to-speak.

How do they teleport themselves?! They're rocks for pete's sake! Unless they are sentient...

That has been hinted at a few times now, particularity in the Rush series.

[The Weeb with No Name]

Shadow's italian voice actor really sucks.

[Double Agent Motobug]

To differentiate Shadow's gameplay from Sonic's, hopefully without stepping on the other (main) characters roles, I'd probably:

1) Make Shadow slightly slower. Just a bit. Kinda like what SEGA did in '06, but imagine that on the level of speed Generations had.

2) Give him a double jump. The double jump would function similarly to Sonic Colours' (this is also assuming Sonic doesn't have one in this hypothetical game.), but it'd keep it's momentum (I don't recall it doing so in Colours...o_O). Although I imagine he'd use his shoes to get the additional height, so he might uncurl from his jump. I imagine it might not be too terrible, since the double jump would mostly be used for platforming, and the normal jump/homing attack(?) could still dispel enemies. Perhaps if it'd get annoying, he'd just re-curl.up after getting a very short boost from his shoes. xD OR! Perhaps it'd work like Sonic Battle's, where it'd damage anything that came in contact with him anyway.

3) Potentially give him the ability to teleport short distances, like the example given from earlier. Rad shortcuts, YEAHH.

4) Yeah, I'd probably give him back his Chaos Spear move, but unlike 06, I'd probably have it so that he could execute the attack while moving (in the air?), therefore it'd allow for much more flow in his attacks. I think I'd allow it to home onto enemies/things within a certain range too, to kind of "replace" the homing attack (even if Shadow has done that before, I think it might be interesting to see what this gameplay style could be like without it) for him. This could also be used for hitting switches or something to open a door in advance before he'd approach it. Since it almost seems like Chaos Spear is electrical, it might also be used to power or short circuit electrical things. (Robots, switches, generators, etc.) Just have to make sure to keep the level's pacing in mind, so that he doesn't *feel* slow in comparison to other characters like Sonic or Tails.

I figure with this moveset, he'd kind of be another addition to the whole "Sonic is fastest and has special items, Tails can fly and swim, Knuckles can glide and climb" thing. "Shadow can double jump and use ranged moves". Of course, there are probably flaws in this somewhere, which I'm sure someone'll be glad to point out, but that's probably just how I'd handle it, and I'm no expert. (Especially not at 6:30 in the morning!)

Edited February 29, 2012 by Aptiva

[Kuzu]

Shadow's italian voice actor really sucks.

Really?

[The Weeb with No Name]

Really?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Really really.

I was expecting something like Ezio Auditore or Zorro. Was sorely disappoint.

[Emerald Chaos]

It seems a bit redundant to concede the earlier argument and admit I was wrong now. But I'll do so anyway, lol.

Chaos Control aside. I don't really have a problem with Shadow if they can stick to something like his Free Riders personality. Him outright just being snide and cruel to the other characters lets him fit in more than trying to make him look deep. It's when they try to put too much emphasis on making him multifaceted that he stands out from the other characters and usually in a bad way.

Gameplay wise I don't mind if he stays really similar to Sonic with only slight differences like an optional ability like Chaos Blast to clear his path of enemies in a flashy explosion at the cost of his boost meter. He was created to be a dark Sonic so let him be a dark Sonic. There's no point in massively differentiating the two characters when they could do that with other characters much more meaningfully.

[Kuzu]

The Knuckles Master Emerald topic irked me, so I decided to bump my thread.

So how about this for Shadow, he just wanders, just like Sonic. As in he drifts from place to place because he's a loner and wants to be left alone, and like Sonic, would get caught up in a bunch of crazy adventures, when he'd rather just be left alone. He has no Allegiances with anybody, Sonic, Eggman, anybody, and does things of his own accord.

This is just off the top of my head.

[Marcello]

Shadow wanders? Since when?