Sonic Lost World VS Sonic Generations.

[Soniman]

You're speaking as if Sonic has never been a fast character tho. Yes, I like the fact that Unleashed gave you an amazing sense of speed and thrill, but once that wears off there really isn't much depth to the gameplay beyond speed running. And since I'm not a speed runner, I'm left without any reason to replay the game. 

 

Neither am I, and yet ironically with SLW (the slowest 3D Sonic game debatebly) looks like the most fun to do that with, I could be wrong when I actually play the game, but yeah.

[Sami]

I'm not a fan of that quote really.  Who cares whether "speed is not what sonic is about", if they make a game that is fun due to speed that isn't to be disrespected.

 

And besides, Sonic kind of was always designed around speed.  It's exactly what the original designers were going for.  For example, even the iconic look of the Green Hill Zone was designed completely around speed, which is why we have the staple checkerboard environment design since it visually shows you exactly how fast you're going.  They just kinda lost track of how to fit in platforming with it which is why we got Marble and Labyrinth.

 

To be honest, the first thing I thought when I played Unleashed was "holy shit, I get to play Sonic being as fast as he is in the cut-scenes".  Flawed or not they finally pulled off gameplay where Sonic lived up to his name, and I'm of the camp that loved it.

 

Hear, hear. I agree with every word of this.

 

 

You're speaking as if Sonic has never been a fast character tho. Yes, I like the fact that Unleashed gave you an amazing sense of speed and thrill, but once that wears off there really isn't much depth to the gameplay beyond speed running. And since I'm not a speed runner, I'm left without any reason to replay the game. 

 

Honest question - what reason is there to replay Lost World, then? If you're not speed-running then what else are you really doing, exactly? Collecting Red Rings? Those are in Generations too, so I don't really know. 

[azoo]

Honest question - what reason is there to replay Lost World, then? If you're not speed-running then what else are you really doing, exactly? Collecting Red Rings? Those are in Generations too, so I don't really know.

Interacting with the environment via wall running / vaulting everywhere? Checking out other routes? Finding hidden goodies? Booping up robots for kicks?

 

If theres anything the new gameplay has it's that it allows you to take on the environment however you want to. The past three games just want you to go fast, and in the process kind of make you feel bad for not.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Azookara

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Jack of all Trades, Master of None

Is oftimes better than Master of One.

 

In other words, while Sonic is known primarily for being fast, it shouldn't be to the point of crippling overspecialization where he shouldn't branch out into other areas that can further complement the gameplay if done well. He shouldn't try to be Mario, but he should be allowed more options to his gameplay.

 

Kinda no different to what we've always been preaching here.

Edited October 22, 2013 by CreepySpiritSonic

[Kuzu]

 

Honest question - what reason is there to replay Lost World, then? If you're not speed-running then what else are you really doing, exactly? Collecting Red Rings? Those are in Generations too, so I don't really know. 

 

Finding new routes, learning what you can or can't do with Sonic's repertoire. figuring out how to take down enemies.

[JezMM]

What's the point of new routes when they all just look like blicky blocky videogame land.

 

 

Though to be honest I find it hard to argue with "after the thrill wears off what is left of Unleashed and Generations!?" because uhh... the thrill has never worn off for me.  I still find it seriously awesome to travel through these semi-realistic environments at crazy speeds and enjoy the views or else I wouldn't replay Sonic Unleashed like once, sometimes even twice a year..

[Soniman]

What's the point of new routes when they all just look like blicky blocky videogame land.

 

 

I don't really get what you mean here. So you're saying that there's no point in exploring any route becase it......is consistent within the level itself?  Like im trying to understand the logic, so if the level would have no routes would it be any less of a level? Or would it be the same because you'd fine no point in looking for them in the first place?

[Sami]

Finding new routes, learning what you can or can't do with Sonic's repertoire. figuring out how to take down enemies.

 

This applies to Generations as well though? At least for me it did. Finding out I could hop on the helicopter at the beginning of Speed Highway, or hop over the ramp and air boost through a window to shave a few seconds was all great fun for me personally. Generations' levels had tons of little shortcuts like that.

[JezMM]

I don't really get what you mean here. So you're saying that there's no point in exploring any route becase it......is consistent within the level itself?  Like im trying to understand the logic, so if the level would have no routes would it be any less of a level? Or would it be the same because you'd fine no point in looking for them in the first place?

 

I dunno I just... miss feeling like I was exploring a "place".  I've really really gotten attached to the detailed aesthetic of the past few games.  It's part of what defined 3D Sonic for me and I'm sad to see it go.

 

If you strip away all the flashy graphics, past games are just a playground set up purely for Sonic to platform his way through.  But put the graphics in and it creates an aesthetic that Sonic is forging his own crazy path through an envioronment that is not fit for being traversed by anyone else.

 

In Lost World though, the stages look like they were created specifically for Sonic to run through.  While you as the player get to literally forge your own path through with parkour, it's just lost some of the style and flair I used to love.  I still find the parkour just slow and clunky generally.

 

I'll outright say it - I'd rather have scripted moments that are super cool and cinematic, than have zero scripted moments and no super cool cinematic stuff.

 

Ideally I'd like cinematic moments that I've created myself, or at least are controlled by me as they happen, with the game recognising that you've done something cool and providing something special for your effort.  For example say there's a tree that is difficult to parkour up, but if you do it, Sonic poses at the top and the tree tips over, blasting you straight onto a new route and you're back in control once again.  Or you're wall running and there's a massive set of cracks in the wall opposite - jump across onto this spot and Sonic smashes through the wall, sending a torrent of rocks down around him which he humorously dodges and you're right back in control again only a second or two later.  Little 1-2 second moments like that would have continued the spirit of the cinematic Unleashed trilogy, while making them feel like rewards for stuff you did, rather than them just being part of the level that happens on every playthrough.

Edited October 23, 2013 by JezMM

[Kuzu]

What's the point of new routes when they all just look like blicky blocky videogame land.

 

 

Though to be honest I find it hard to argue with "after the thrill wears off what is left of Unleashed and Generations!?" because uhh... the thrill has never worn off for me.  I still find it seriously awesome to travel through these semi-realistic environments at crazy speeds and enjoy the views or else I wouldn't replay Sonic Unleashed like once, sometimes even twice a year..

 

Keyword; you. For me, the thrill wore off a long time ago and I got tired of replaying the same path over and over.

Unleashed is a damn amazing game to watch, not so much to play.

 

This applies to Generations as well though? At least for me it did. Finding out I could hop on the helicopter at the beginning of Speed Highway, or hop over the ramp and air boost through a window to shave a few seconds was all great fun for me personally. Generations' levels had tons of little shortcuts like that.

 

Not saying Generations didn't do it, but there are still significant portions of some levels that restrict your movement, and I hate that in a platformer.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Dark Yakuzu

[JezMM]

Keyword; you. For me, the thrill wore off a long time ago and I got tired of replaying the same path over and over.

Unleashed is a damn amazing game to watch, not so much to play.

 

Yeah I was kind of responding to that fact.  I'm just saying, different strokes for different folks, I don't have an argument back but didn't want to respond with silence.  It's just one of those things I enjoy but can't articulate what I still get out of it on a conceptual level.  I just get peeved because a lot of people somehow see this (or at least talk like they see it) as if getting entertainment from this is somehow "lesser" than a Sonic game that presents more choice, as if more choice is automatically better.

 

I'm sure there are songs, movies, and TV show episodes that you've watched millions of times that never change on subsequent consumptions but you still adore them every single time.  Sonic Unleashed is like that for me.

 

I'm not arguing it's objectively better than Lost World's plethora of flexibility in how you play, I'm just trying to word it in a way that people can hopefully understand, as oppose to trying to objectively prove Unleashed to be not fun.

[Kuzu]

Yeah I was kind of responding to that fact.  I'm just saying, different strokes for different folks, I don't have an argument back but didn't want to respond with silence.  It's just one of those things I enjoy but can't articulate what I still get out of it on a conceptual level.  I just get peeved because a lot of people somehow see this (or at least talk like they see it) as if getting entertainment from this is somehow "lesser" than a Sonic game that presents more choice, as if more choice is automatically better.

 

I'm sure there are songs, movies, and TV show episodes that you've watched millions of times that never change on subsequent consumptions but you still adore them every single time.  Sonic Unleashed is like that for me.

 

I'm not arguing it's objectively better than Lost World's plethora of flexibility in how you play, I'm just trying to word it in a way that people can hopefully understand, as oppose to trying to objectively prove Unleashed to be not fun.

 

That's understandable. I appreciate good Cinematography in my games too, I just don't like it when its what the game is about because then it feels like I'm playing a movie instead of a game. But that's just me I guess. I'm not saying Unleashed is bad, just that I personally didn't like it or would care for its return. I haven't played Lost World and may end up disliking it as well when I eventually do play it.

[Il_Dittatore]

Quote

Sonic Lost World also has an identity crisis and wants to be Mario Galaxy, very badly. It's clear to see in the art style, level design and level themes. It's honestly a bit ridiculous at times, since no game can successfully imitate Mario to that degree.

Sorry for replying to an old thread but since no-one rebuked this accusation I'll do it here.

Sonic Lost World is based on Sonic X-treme, a 1997 scrapped Sega Saturn game which in turn inspired Mario Galaxy. This is also suggested by the game title (Lost World, as in "lost Sonic game").

So actually it's the other way around: it's Mario Galaxy that "copied".

Click here for an article about Sonic X-treme (with videos).

[Blue Blood]

28 minutes ago, Il_Dittatore said:

Sorry for replying to an old thread but since no-one rebuked this accusation I'll do it here.

Sonic Lost World is based on Sonic X-treme, a 1997 scrapped Sega Saturn game which in turn inspired Mario Galaxy. This is also suggested by the game title (Lost World, as in "lost Sonic game").

So actually it's the other way around: it's Mario Galaxy that "copied".

Click here for an article about Sonic X-treme (with videos).

No it's not. Iizuka confirmed that it's not based on X-Treme and that some of the younger members of the development team were likely not even aware of that game. I don't have a source considering its so many years ago now, but I could dig it out later if you want. 

Galaxy clearly did not copy Lost World. The planetoid levels are nothing like X-Tremes, which were simply very basic and run through a fish-eye lens.

Oh and if your want some funnier proof, you know the giant springs in Lost World? The internal files call them Launch Stars. They weren't even trying to hide the Mario Galaxy copying. 

[Il_Dittatore]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

No it's not [...]

I put copied between quotes because I don't think that Mario Galaxy actually copied Sonic X-treme, but it would be naive to think that it was not inspired by it (at least at a concept level).

Quote

The planetoid levels are nothing like X-Tremes, which were simply very basic and run through a fish-eye lens.

Of course it's basic, it was a prototype (running on 1997 hardware). However, there's a video in which Sonic runs around a sphere with an "S" around it. That's the logo of the Saturn, which also is a planet, so, to me the planetoids idea comes from this.

It's also true that Lost World took inspiration by Galaxy, I don't want to deny this, but without X-treme neither of this games would have been possible.

 

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 Iizuka confirmed that it's not based on X-Treme 

I don't trust this statement: since Sonic X-treme was made by a developer who don't work for Sega anymore, recognizing that the game is based on his work could have lead to a lawsuit for Sega (it's a bit like when Disney's Atlantis animators said "we've never ever ever ever seen the Secret of Blue Water, we weren't even aware of its existence").