Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[Shade Vortex]

In general, third party characters are a special case. Sakurai makes sure to point this out every time. Smash Bros is not about, and never will be about, third party characters. It is purely a Nintendo Mascot brawler, with occasionally obscure characters thrown in for variety. Third party characters are added as a bit of a special thing to spice things up and garner interest from more gamers. And they have very strict, and consistent rules for getting in, that were laid out pretty clearly for Brawl, and I am sure those rules still apply here, and will continue to apply for future Smash games.

 

The character must have:

-Appeared in a game for a Nintendo console.

-Must have significant history/importance in the Gaming Industry/with Nintendo (Sonic and Snake (though he also had Kojima, who is a friend of Sakurai, asking for it, so he is a little bit more of an exception to the rule than the others) obviously apply, and so does Megaman).

-And judging by how it was in Brawl, I'm pretty sure only one character from each third party franchise will be playable, because this game is not about those franchises and never will be. The content will be 90% Nintendo, with the last 10% being divided equally for the third party characters. Snake and Sonic both got one stage; Shadow Moses and Green Hill Zone. Though I think Sonic got a larger music selection than MGS,  it's still pretty evenly divided. And I dunno about ATs/Trophies/Stickers, I know Shadow was Sonic's AT but I don't remember a MGS AT- though there probably was one. But the main point here is amount of stages and amount of characters.

-And lastly, and probably most importantly, although not a rule, but more of a "thing to remember", is that each and every third party character requires sufficient licensing/permission. So the cost of being allowed to use a character must be justified by how much more interest that character will garner. I know of many people who were at least more inclined to get Brawl specifically because it had Sonic in it, and the same goes for Snake. And though obviously they have the Sonic Licensing since Sonic is in the game, SEGA is still basically in charge of allowing specific characters to be used for Smash Bros- so even if Sakurai wanted to, SEGA would have to want to do it as well.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Shade Vortex

[Splash the Otter]

Honestly, you're setting yourself up for disaster. Tails will NEVER be playable and that should be an acceptable fact by now, especially if Sonic is already revealed. We got Sonic in, Nintendo isn't going to favor one 3rd party over another and include 2 playable Sonic characters and 1 Megaman character.

Don't be so sure. There's still a chance that he'll be playable!

 

In general, third party characters are a special case. Sakurai makes sure to point this out every time. Smash Bros is not about, and never will be about, third party characters. It is purely a Nintendo Mascot brawler, with occasionally obscure characters thrown in for variety. Third party characters are added as a bit of a special thing to spice things up and garner interest from more gamers. And they have very strict, and consistent rules for getting in, that were laid out pretty clearly for Brawl, and I am sure those rules still apply here, and will continue to apply for future Smash games.

 

The character must have:

-Appeared in a game for a Nintendo console.

-Must have significant history/importance in the Gaming Industry/with Nintendo (Sonic and Snake (though he also had Kojima, who is a friend of Sakurai, asking for it, so he is a little bit more of an exception to the rule than the others) obviously apply, and so does Megaman).

-And judging by how it was in Brawl, I'm pretty sure only one character from each third party franchise will be playable, because this game is not about those franchises and never will be. The content will be 90% Nintendo, with the last 10% being divided equally for the third party characters. Snake and Sonic both got one stage; Shadow Moses and Green Hill Zone. Though I think Sonic got a larger music selection than MGS,  it's still pretty evenly divided. And I dunno about ATs/Trophies/Stickers, I know Shadow as Sonic's AT but I don't remember a MGS AT- though there probably was one. But the main point here is amount of stages and amount of characters.

-And lastly, and probably most importantly, although not a rule, but more of a "thing to remember", is that each and every third party character requires sufficient licensing/permission. So the cost of being allowed to use a character must be justified by how much more interest that character will garner. I know of many people who were at least more inclined to get Brawl specifically because it had Sonic in it, and the same goes for Snake. And though obviously they have the Sonic Licensing since Sonic is in the game, SEGA is still basically in charge of allowing specific characters to be used for Smash Bros- so even if Sakurai wanted to, SEGA would have to want to do it as well.

I don't care, I really want to play as Tails. An assist trophy isn't good enough for me. Anyway, Sonic is technically second party until 2015.

[Eternal EX]

Don't be so sure. There's still a chance that he'll be playable!

 

I don't care, I really want to play as Tails. An assist trophy isn't good enough for me. Anyway, Sonic is technically second party until 2015.

If you want to play as Tails so bad in smash bros. Hack Brawl. All of your dreams come true through hacking. 

 

As for today's update. As long as it's not a tour stage, I'm happy. 

[TCB]

Makes me wonder how, well, mobile, Lumiose City will be. 

 

Seems to also be Pokemon's main stage for the 3DS version, wonder what (not if; Pokemon may very well get rep'd stage-wise in both versions) the Wii U version may be. Perhaps another Pokemon Stadium *snicker*

[Nast]

.

[LunarEdge]

So, to change up the discussion a bit....what do you guys think the 3DS version will cost? If both versions are going to have the same amount of characters and roughly the same content and play on a 1:1 scale, do you think they'll cut back on the 3DS version a bit when it comes to certain content to price it lower, such as $40? I can't see both versions being exactly the same despite a few different stages and the 3DS version costing $60, which is excessive for a 3DS title.

 

I hope the 3DS version doesn't take a seat to the Wii U version and doesn't have online multiplayer or something like that personally.

[TCB]

I'm going for $40 on this one; most major 3DS games are that price right? 

 

If not, maaaaaaaaaaaaybe $45/$50 to push it.

Where are people getting the idea that this will be a moving stage? Sakurai could just mean that you'll be fighting on top of the tower.

 

Taken from this, which implies that it will:

 

"Up until a few seconds ago, the fighters were brawling on top of that tower. No, really."  

[Salamander]

I assumed it was some kind of dramatic zoom-out owing to the match having ended.  But I don't know much about Smash Bros., so.

[Nast]

.

[Splash the Otter]

If you want to play as Tails so bad in smash bros. Hack Brawl. All of your dreams come true through hacking.

But I don't know the first thing about hacking. Anyway, it isn't the same.

[JezMM]

Don't be so sure. There's still a chance that he'll be playable!

 

I don't care, I really want to play as Tails. An assist trophy isn't good enough for me. Anyway, Sonic is technically second party until 2015.

 

Do you like playing Smash Bros?  Like, is the gameplay enjoyable to you?  Do you like any Nintendo franchises?

 

 

If no then buying a full price game just for the inclusion of one character is pretty ridiculous.

 

If yes then not buying a game containing this gameplay and/or franchises you like just because one character that you want isn't playable is also pretty ridiculous.

 

 

Your rationale here is just... so extreme, I can't understand it.

 

 

Either way dude just... keep your hopes low.

[ProfessorZolo]

...Why am I getting flashbacks of the guy who wanted Banjo in Transformed...?

Anyhoo, I'm kinda hoping Lumiose will be something more like- er... Whatever the stage was in the first Smash. Celadon? Silph tower? It'd be nice to have a Pokemon stage set solely in one part of the town.

If it IS a touring stage, we better get some sweeping camera angles and rushing down the streets.

[Splash the Otter]

Do you like playing Smash Bros?  Like, is the gameplay enjoyable to you?  Do you like any Nintendo franchises?

 

 

If no then buying a full price game just for the inclusion of one character is pretty ridiculous.

 

If yes then not buying a game containing this gameplay and/or franchises you like just because one character that you want isn't playable is also pretty ridiculous.

 

 

Your rationale here is just... so extreme, I can't understand it.

 

 

Either way dude just... keep your hopes low.

I love Smash Bros, but I've had my heart set on playing as Tails ever since Sonic was playable in Brawl. That's seven years of wanting something to happen, and it's the only thing I particularly want out of this game. If Tails isn't playable, I won't be able to enjoy the game because every time I go to the character selection I'll just be reminded of how disappointed I was.

[Salamander]

I think I misunderstood you; that's fair enough, then.  You like Smash Bros., but not enough to buy again unless a favourite character gets in.  Nothing unreasonable about that, merely tragic, because there is essentially no chance of Tails being playable in this game.  I don't mean to suggest that he wouldn't be an interesting character, merely that there's no favourable precedent.

[azoo]

To be honest I'm not even sure what Tails would bring to the table that would make a completely unique moveset. It'd mostly be Sonic with gadgets and up+B flight, right? I always thought making an Ice Climbers-esque "Sonic and Tails" was an obvious choice from the get go though, so while I don't see the point of him being a solo character, I always wondered at least somewhat why they didn't take the opportunity for that.

 

I'd be fine with him as an assist trophy though. Much better choice than Shadow. 

[MegasonicZX]

There's actually a good bit of potential for a tail's moveset (even not counting ones from sonic battle) but like you said, it baffles me why the sonic and tail's/psuedo ice climbers thing never came to pass. Maybe because sakurai wants to leave the ice climbers (and now rosalina/luma) as there own special thing?

[Tori Himemiya]

Tails is ok. I personally don't see him being playable despite Sonic returning again. Its mostly to do with Sonic still being that one guest character who returns. While there is indeed potential for a Tails moveset, there is a lot of potential for everyone to be honest. Potential seems to be a cop out for everything since you're practically stating "what if?" But eh, maybe its because I'm not much of a Sonic fan like I used to be excited for another addition and want someone else that is more creative or what not.

I probably stated it before but I'm still bitter about Snake not returning but I understood since after Brawl he wouldn't return so yeah. :/

[#EndyGate]

I love Smash Bros, but I've had my heart set on playing as Tails ever since Sonic was playable in Brawl. That's seven years of wanting something to happen, and it's the only thing I particularly want out of this game. If Tails isn't playable, I won't be able to enjoy the game because every time I go to the character selection I'll just be reminded of how disappointed I was.

 

I can understand where you're coming from and all, but either way I find a character being a deciding factor to your purchase is a terrible idea. We all have favorites, we all have our most wanted character, but no matter what, you need to have something more to be excited for than just the idea of playing as this character that may not get in. Hell, in Tails' case, I highly doubt that he'll get in considering that he's not even a Nintendo character, and we really don't need more than one rep per third party franchise (if not for each company). It's just a bit unreasonable to have your heart so pegged to the idea when really it most likely isn't happening.

 

Plus the mentality still just urks me. Wanting a game only for a single character just feels petty to me, especially when you say that you love the series. I mean if the game doesn't impress you compared to previous installments, it still sounds like a waste to buy what to you could be a $60 Tails add-on to Brawl. Yet, if you actually like what you're seeing, why does this one character's absence have to be such a fuss? Sure we all get disappointed sometimes, but not being able to even enjoy the game because that one guy doesn't have a slot on character select? It just sounds so shallow to be honest.

[JezMM]

I think waiting for something that isn't confirmed to be happening is foolhardy anyway.

 

I HOPE for a sequel to Mischief Makers.  I HOPE for a main series Mario game with Wario, Waluigi and Daisy in it.  But I am not waiting for them.

 

 

I just can't understand the mindset behind seeing Sonic get unveiled 7 years ago and thinking "Tails must be in the next one".

[JaidynReiman]

I can understand where you're coming from and all, but either way I find a character being a deciding factor to your purchase is a terrible idea. We all have favorites, we all have our most wanted character, but no matter what, you need to have something more to be excited for than just the idea of playing as this character that may not get in. Hell, in Tails' case, I highly doubt that he'll get in considering that he's not even a Nintendo character, and we really don't need more than one rep per third party franchise (if not for each company). It's just a bit unreasonable to have your heart so pegged to the idea when really it most likely isn't happening.

 

Plus the mentality still just urks me. Wanting a game only for a single character just feels petty to me, especially when you say that you love the series. I mean if the game doesn't impress you compared to previous installments, it still sounds like a waste to buy what to you could be a $60 Tails add-on to Brawl. Yet, if you actually like what you're seeing, why does this one character's absence have to be such a fuss? Sure we all get disappointed sometimes, but not being able to even enjoy the game because that one guy doesn't have a slot on character select? It just sounds so shallow to be honest.

I'm sure that more people have this mentality than you think. I'm not one of them (the new characters we have so far is enough for me) but a lot of gamers are just plain petty.

[ProfessorZolo]

Hm. I guess the way you explained that does make a little more sense, Kyurem, but still not enough to, well, make sense to me.

For example. I really love Ike and Ganon. If Ike doesn't make it into Smash 4- If Ganon's move set is changed to something new- I will be devastated... But regardless, Smash is still a fantastic multiplayer experience, and there's always another character to try out.

I just... Don't see why you wouldn't get a game for such a seemingly asinine reason.

And y'know, given Namco is on board, I would really hope Lloyd Irving is playable. He would be my number one reason to get Smash, but... My number one reason to get Smash is... Well, because it's Smash. *shrug*

[WhoWhatMan]

Leak time!

 

 

It was starting to sound believable but the whole thing with Jack Frost? Leak debunked... for me anyway.

[JaidynReiman]

Honestly, the whole thing is completely and totally believable until the end. Anna is another character I've been heavily considering as well, because she is absolutely the most recurring Fire Emblem character in the series and I can't see them removing Ike either. If they really wanted to make this whole thing believable, they should've left out Jack Frost (though this is supposedly a version of Jack Frost from Shin Megami Tensei, but even then Jack Frost is a mythological character so I dunno, its debateable if that would allow him to count as "not having originated in a video game).

 

At the same time, because of the fact that... this is WHOLLY believable except the end, I really don't think its real. Shulk, Isaac, Dixie, King K. Rool, Palutena, Chibi Robo, Ridley, Anna? Plenty of obvious suggestions (I don't think we'd get both K. Rool and Dixie, personally). I personally don't think Snake will return, and I'm questioning the transformations, but even those are solid suggestions and Sakurai did state before that, so far, he has not removed any characters from Brawl.

 

I think what might happen is that transformations are removed, Sheik is replaced by Impa, and Pokemon Trainer comes back but he himself is playable instead of controlling three Pokemon (for his attacks he summons Pokemon to attack for him, kinda like Yuna from Dissidia 012).

 

 

Basically, this whole "leak" screams of being too easy to me with the sole exception of Jack Frost. I don't think we'll get three third-parties, and if we do the third will be either Snake or a Namco character (probably Pac-Man). If Snake isn't in, I think he'd have a spiritual successor character in the form of an Advance Wars character with a couple of changed moves.

[Octarine]

I don't believe for a million years that Jack Frost of all characters is going to be in Smash 4, but I'm not sure why him having mythological origins would matter. It's not really much different from Pit being a weird Greek angel.

[JaidynReiman]

Sakurai's policy is that only characters who originated in a Video Game can appear. I was bringing that up as a debate; Jack Frost is a mythological character, so its a debate as to if Sakurai would count the fact that he chose a specific variation of said mythological character had originated in a Video Game, or if he'd count it on the basis of the fact that this Jack Frost is just a version of the mythological character and he originated in mythology rather than a Video Game.

 

I suppose it doesn't matter much, personally I think this guy ruined his "leak" by saying Jack Frost of all characters anyway.

 

 

Well... looking it up Jack Frost IS the mascot of Atlus and is a Snowman rather than the traditional appearance of Jack Frost. At the same time, it must also be considered that Atlus is now owned by Sega. Plus, the appearance... yeah, no. I'd rather have Pac-Man (and I don't want Pac-Man either).