Sonic Adventure 2 v.s. Sonic Heroes - Round 4: Hype/Marketing

[Jolt_TH]

Still had a much better story and much less cheesy dialog than Heroes, as well as the characters having a reason to do something and felt a lot more in character, I can't see sonic attacking any of his friends for any reason whatsoever!

But I digress this is about design

Edited April 30, 2013 by Jolt_TH

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I get that but I don't exactly like that whole feel for Sonic to be perfectly honest. *yes I know edgy works when it's done well so on so foth*

 

And why not? Why is it that there always seems to be a problem with doing even a good attempt at edgy with Sonic? Why is it that even if it's done well it's still a bad thing?Why is it that for all this discussion about variety of colors we can't have variety of tone for the series either? Why should we limit ourselves and not enjoy an edgy feel in the series when we pull it off well?

 

Sorry if this comes off a bit personal, but frankly, it just flat out annoys the piss out of me that we can enjoy all sorts of cartoons and animations like that such as Disney that manage do it and yet it seems to feel like a taboo and unnatural for Sonic. I just flat out hate how one-sided and close-minded that is.

But it just doesn't hit a chord with me. I'd rather everything be edgy if ya give me edgy. The story, while a good attempt, is pretty laughable along with the dialogue so yeaah, I can't take the edgy well with this game. 

And dialogue talking about the "Superpower of Teamwork" is actually decent by comparison? And don't get me started on how flat out hypocritical it is to the plot when the teams go fighting each other when they might be after the same thing, and for the most ridiculous misunderstandings.

 

Dude, I like lighthearted plots as much as I do edgy ones, but I know when the dialogue is sounds like it was written by kindergardners, and Heroes was far worse in that aspect than SA2 could ever be.

Edited April 30, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I have got to stop letting my anger cloud my judgment.

Edited April 30, 2013 by 743-E.D. Missile

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I also love how people end up escalting this stuff too... 

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Faseeh]

 

And dialogue talking about the "Superpower of Teamwork" is actually decent by comparison? And don't get me started on how flat out hypocritical it is to the plot when the teams go fighting each other when they might be after the same thing, and for the most ridiculous misunderstandings.

 

Dude, I like lighthearted plots as much as I do edgy ones, but I know when the dialogue is sounds like it was written by kindergardners, and Heroes was far worse in that aspect than SA2 could ever be.

 

I don't like Heroes's dialogue either. I never compared them. The story in Heroes makes no sense either. 

 

They both went for different stuff in that but they both failed, SA2 failing maybe less. 

 

SO ANYWAYS. ART DESIGN.

 

Also, I adore how Heroes had those speech bubbles for the enemies too, and I actually liked the whole fire, winder, thunder concept and the gimmicks they had surrounding it, though they could have been presented better.

[Jolt_TH]

I LOVE all those little thins that the designers put in the game that you might not notice, the speech marks in Heroes, the pick-up -able item things throughout the levels (eapecially Sonics) in SA2.

I know Heroes doesnt have a space level but I do particularly like the design of the Ark stages, the indoor ones look really advanced (considering its meant to be 50 years old +) and lost Colony has a really fun and effective gimmick with the darkness, then going from that to the bright insane crazy gadget is a shock but in a good way.

Egg Fleet was a great level in heroes and I guess the equivalent to the ark stages, they were bright colourful and adrenaline pumping, ( though why Eggman had fish shaped battleships ill never know!)

Both art designs are really well presented and fit for the style of game they were going for, bright and cheery for the children's TV show heroes, slightly more realistic (in terms of colours and design) and down to earth for the edgier SA2. I have no doubt Heroes would have looked better with SA2 or some other character model that wasn't wrapped in cling film.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Jolt_TH

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't like Heroes's dialogue either. I never compared them. The story in Heroes makes no sense either. 

 

They both went for different stuff in that but they both failed, SA2 failing maybe less. 

Well sorry for jumping to assumptions on that. I'm just making sure to give credit where it's due when something else makes a haphazard attempt at something.

[Tornado]

Okay, here's the thing. If you guys cannot stop devolving these Vs. threads into shit slinging at the slightest drop of a hat, these Vs. threads will stop existing. And I happen to really enjoy these threads, and see no reason whatsoever for them to keep falling into this petty bullshit; so I'll be rather pissed if you guys won't knock it off.

[Amomynous]

Heroes, this kind of art design I just think of as being so iconically 'Sonic' and better delivers the point that this is a whimsical world with cartoon animals, this is one of the reasons Seaside hill keeps being crammed into everything Sonic Team can think of, not that it isn't annoying.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Amomynous

[Darth InVaders]

Writing (dialog): They are both pretty bad, but Sonic Heroes is more cringe inducing - furthermore Sonic Heroes takes the bad dialog a step farther by having the characters chatter incessantly during gameplay with its terrible dialog (a problem most other major console Sonic games continued) while SA2 gameplay is thankfully mostly quiet (with the exception of a computer over a PA system, and Eggman telling his team to hurry up or taunting the heroes - which works - and the other characters incessantly cheering on the 2 Super-hogs in the final battle which gets annoying but is limited to 1 level)

Story: It takes forever for SA2 to get to the point with Team Heroes being distracted for too long with GUN but once it finally got going it wasn't too bad, though it also lacks humor horribly and seems a little too dark (if that darkness were balanced better with humor and optimism from the heroes it would be fine). On the other hand, Heroes didn't really bother planning out their story: it's just a slapstick hodgepodge of ideas cobbled together - some of which were good ideas mind you but were ruined by not really going anywhere until the end of the story when the goal is just achieved. Everything you need to know about the Heroes story can be found in the individual teams' opening and ending cutscenes and then the Final Story - there is nothing inbetween.

Level artwork: SA2 is just too dark even in its brightest levels, and its artwork gets recycled too much in other levels. Heroes feels more like Sonic should - bright beautiful visuals at the beginning that get dark at the end.

Character artwork: Heroes is hideous, just hideous on every character (Eggman especially) - they are toy like and poorly animated. SA2 has pretty good models that are very well animated (I especially like Eggman) - although they are darker than they should be and I freakin hate Sonic's SOAP shoes, those are tidbits in comparison to Heroes problems. I also prefer the enemies in SA2, the Egg Pawns are overused (being the base design of nearly every robot in Heroes, from Flappers to Magicians) and they are too basic - the Egg Fighters of Unleashed took the Egg Pawns where they needed to go.

Promotional artwork: The hand-drawn artwork of SA2 destroys the CG artwork of Heroes - the hand-drawn stuff just has so much more personality and originality

Edited May 1, 2013 by Darth InVaders

[-blank-]

Art design, eh?

 

Okay, let's see what we've got here.

 

I don't know why the people arguing against SA2 are so biased against the realism. Maybe it's because SA2 was my first Sonic game, but I never once, not once, found the realism in that game to be bad. Yeah, it wasn't all colorful and nothing really popped out like it does in Heroes (well, aside from the ARK stages in a way). But, it never bothered me. The stages I felt looked fairly nice and easy on the eyes, the characters didn't seem out of place in the world and I thought the art style was really good. I don't see how it could be considered 'dull'. Well, except for stages like Prison Lane I suppose and Iron Gate. But other than that, I don't really see the big deal.

 

So yeah, I like SA2's art style.

 

Now, as for Heroes style, other than the character models, which I will also attest to being way too shiny and out of place and all that jazz, I thought it was pretty good. I liked how things popped out at you in the levels, I liked how bright and colorful the levels looked and it just felt like a Sonic game to me. Not that SA2 didn't, but I like how it seemed like a classic Sonic game, but in the 3D plane.

 

So, I like both styles, but I'll have to go with SA2 because, realism or not, everything just seems to fit more in the game, characters included. The big problem I have with Heroes is the character models and how they seemed out of place. So, yeah, SA2 wins this round. But just barely.

[Mr Useful]

Welp, to say, would Heroes be a slightly more pleasant experience if the characters use say, non shiny SA1DX/Sa2B models.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Dom

[Gabz Girl]

Oof, this is difficult. I like Sonic Heroes for its colourful art design and stages that hark back to the old school days but the character models are ugly as hell. Way too shiny and...yuck. Hate them.

SA2 has great art design too but for a different reason. I like how it meshes well with the character models (unlike Heroes) and the environments are more serious and perhaps darker in tone, but there are still stages with lots of colour like Dry Lagoon. And somehow the art design still feels Sonic-y even though there's humans around, just like SA1.

I think because of the terrible character models in Heroes, I'm gonna have to say SA2. It's close though, very close.

[Cyrus]

I never saw any issues with Heroes' character models other than the fact that they're too polygonal and shiny, and even those don't bother me. Maybe it's just me being blinded by my love for intentionally and unintentionally stylized graphics?

Edited May 9, 2013 by Auto

[Mr Useful]

I never saw any issues with Heroes' character models other than the fact that they're too polygonal and shiny, and even those don't bother me. Maybe it's just me being blinded by my love for intentionally and unintentionally stylized graphics?

Well, it irks me seeing how SA2b has nicer looking models than Heroes, it's a 3 year gap and on the same system. Why should they be looking worse after 3 years instead of better or just as good?

[...]

Again, sorry for the lengthy wait, but here goes!

 

Hype/Marketing

 

With the the critical acclaim and commercial success of Sonic Adventure, it would be obvious for Sonic Team to make a sequel. The development team for SA1 came over to San Francisco in order to localize the Western release of SA1, whereas they shortly dubbed themselves 'Sonic Team USA'. After such localization, they began work on Sonic Adventure 2. The game was marketed as having a much more deeper narrative than the first, along with Sonic facing a darker version of himself, as who as all know, would become Shadow The Hedgehog. A new secondary villain (who would be Rouge), would also be introduced. Adventure 2 was also meant to celebrate Sonic's 10th anniversary, as it was to be released in 2001, a decade after the release of the first game on the Genesis.

 

 

Something else that would be implemented in the game would be SOAP Shoes, which Sonic would wear throughout the entire game. This was between a deal with SEGA and Soap, and also meant to advertise grinding, a new gameplay mechanic.

 

 

Due to declining sales of the Dreamcast, SEGA announced in the early spring of 2001 (when the game was meant to be released) that they would discontinue the console and become a third-party company. With this, more development time was given, and the release was moved to June 23, 2001, the exact day Sonic 1 was released in the West. This would also be the last Sonic game to be on the Dreamcast. The game was released in June to critical acclaim, but much less commercial success than the first Adventure. However, a port was made for the GameCube named "Adventure 2: Battle", later becoming one of the console's best-sellers.

 

Now, on the topic of Sonic Heroes. Since 2001, there had been no new main title Sonic game since SA2. Sonic Team wanted to make a new game that would appeal to a much wider userbase, new and old fans alike. Instead of making another Adventure game, Sonic Team wanted to make a much more team-based game, with multiple characters that could be playable at the same time. Large amounts of fan demand came about, clamoring for more Tails after complaints about little advertising of him during SA2 development. Metal Sonic, Sonic's robotic doppelganger from Sonic CD also got lots of fan demand to return. Trailers showed a much more drastic looking Metal Sonic than his original appearance, hinting at him having a somewhat large part in the story. Sonic Heroes was also advertised as Sonic's first multiplatform game, coming to not just the GameCube, but the Xbox and PS2 as well.

 

 

In order to hype up the game and bring Sonic back in the public eye once again, the animated series Sonic X made its premier in the West, McDonald's did their first Sonic Happy Meal Tie-ins in the past 9 years since the promotional push of Sonic 3, two new Sonic games were released on the Game Boy Advance (Pinball Party and Battle), and even a demo came with copies of Mario Kart: Double Dash. Due to this, 2003 was dubbed "The Year of Sonic" in numerous interviews and publications. Heroes was released in December 2003 in japan, and in early 2004 in the West to massive commercial success, becoming the highest-selling 3D Sonic game, but to much more mixed reception than the first two Adventure games.

                                           

                                                                                  

 

In terms of hype and marketing, Heroes easily wins for me. It seemed like it just had a very large push in its advertising, the fact that 2003 was named the "Year of Sonic" because of it is simply enough for me.

 

So, who do you think had the better marketing, Adventure 2 or Heroes?

Edited May 15, 2013 by Felix

[Kamakai]

Heroes. I actually saw TV ads, it was promoted by McDonalds, and it was really popular here in the UK.

[Soniman]

Heroes wins this easily, if only because I actually rememberd the marketing and it didn't just "appear" like SA2 did.

 

Sega's marketing for Heroes was one of the most aggresive campagins I seen out of them, citing the year of Heroes' release as teh 'Year of Sonic" completley with Sonic Advance 2 and the release of Sonic X to tie it all together, I even used to own some of the Mcdonalds toys that went with the game. Not to mention I actually saw commercials for this game, this will forever be a memory of mine.

 

[Solkia]

Sonic Adventure 2 had marketing? News to me.

 

Sonic Heroes easily.

 

EDIT: I think it's also worth noting that Sonic Heroes has sold 9 times as much as SA2 and SA2:B combined. I doubt that's a fluke.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Solkia

[Soniman]

Sonic Adventure 2 had marketing? News to me.

 

Sonic Heroes easily.

 

It probably did have decent marketing but im sure I was way to young to actually remember it.

[...]

Heroes wins this easily, if only because I actually rememberd the marketing and it didn't just "appear" like SA2 did.

 

Sega's marketing for Heroes was one of the most aggresive campagins I seen out of them, citing the year of Heroes' release as teh 'Year of Sonic" completley with Sonic Advance 2 and the release of Sonic X to tie it all together, I even used to own some of the Mcdonalds toys that went with the game. Not to mention I actually saw commercials for this game, this will forever be a memory of mine.

 

 

Speaking of that along with advertisements, we cannot forget that the Sonic Heroes' advertising campaign also had this gem.

 

[Tornado]

This is actually a really hard category to judge (and also the one that I thought justified the entire thread). Probably the closest one that the two games can have (maybe music excepting), in fact. I think you guys are dramatically understating just how big Adventure 2 was in late 2000.

 

 

I'll do a long post when I get home, though.

[C4k3]

I was young at the time so I don't remember much about SA2's or Heroes advertising. Judging from what I've seen, Heroes seems like it was more pushed than SA2, most likely due to it being their first multi-platform game.

 

EDIT: Oh god, that advert gives me nightmares.

Edited May 14, 2013 by TheCakeMiester

[JezMM]

Can't really judge on this one at all since it was Sonic Adventure 2 on Gamecube that got me back into the series (and I was skeptical about it before actually playing no less!)

 

SA2 looks like more of a big deal to me though, judging from the old trailers.  There was a big push on story and new gameplay, as oppose to Heroes which feels fluffed out by dramaticisms and lots of FMV footage.

 

I mean it worked because I was hyped as hell for Heroes and didn't see any disconnect or weirdness in style between it and SA2 until I actually had the game in my hands, but yeah.

 

 

No actual official vote from me on this one though, I literally cannot judge due to not being there at the time for SA2.

[Sonictrainer]

There was hype for Sonic Adventure 2, but it was mostly through gaming magazines and online websites.