Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[DabigRG]

29 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

The series needs a more varied rogues gallery. 

I think many can agree with that, myself included.

Eggman's one of my favorite characters, but I do feel the games have fallen into the various ruts and trappings they have because they insist of including him as a main focus even in games or more appropriately situations that could've made better use of a different touch occasionally.

In fact, one of the drawing points for Archie was the fact that there were other, distinct villains that could separate, adversarial, and/or occasionally even allying with him for their own clear reasons.

[StaticMania]

2 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

The series needs a more varied rogues gallery. I'm tired of seeing the Egg Empire in every game.

We'd probably get that if the introduction of other villains didn't involve making betraying Eggman or making him seem like small fries.

Also if they were actually made for repeat appearances.

 

[DabigRG]

8 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

We'd probably get that if the introduction of other villains didn't involve making betraying Eggman or making him seem like small fries.

Also if they were actually made for repeat appearances.

 

Pretty much.

And the few recurring antagonists we do have(that don't turn good) either weren't really planned as such beyond the odd spinoff appearance or recently, arguably suffered from being just a little too easy.

[Guergy]

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Pretty much.

And the few recurring antagonists we do have(that don't turn good) either weren't really planned as such beyond the odd spinoff appearance or recently, arguably suffered from being just a little too easy.

Say what you will about the Archie/Fleetway comics but at least they have more villains besides Eggman and even then, Eggman was taken seriously as a threat in his own right.

[DabigRG]

40 minutes ago, Guergy said:

Say what you will about the Archie/Fleetway comics but at least they have more villains besides Eggman and even then, Eggman was taken seriously as a threat in his own right.

Damn straight.

[Diogenes]

Another thread got me thinking, SA gets some shit for its overexaggerated and overanimated facial expressions, and it's largely deserved, but I have to give it some credit for being willing to push the characters' designs that far, especially given the era it's from. Most other Sonic games go very tame, very on-model with the character's faces and I think it's a shame that they don't take advantage of these cartoony characters and their exaggerated, energetic world to go bigger with their expressions.

[DabigRG]

31 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Another thread got me thinking, SA gets some shit for its overexaggerated and overanimated facial expressions, and it's largely deserved, but I have to give it some credit for being willing to push the characters' designs that far, especially given the era it's from. Most other Sonic games go very tame, very on-model with the character's faces and I think it's a shame that they don't take advantage of these cartoony characters and their exaggerated, energetic world to go bigger with their expressions.

Yeah, I kinda appreciate how despite or even because of it's wonky models, Riders also had the characters pull some weird, tangently characteristic faces and/or motions.

[Foxthefox1000]

I find the zany and wacky facial spasms charming. It's more appealing than black hole-mouth from Black Knight or the very limited expressions they have nowadays, which is partly why I enjoy the comics because they, too, emphasize the character's facial features and reactions.

[Splash the Otter]

Sonic games shouldn't always be about going from Point A to Point B as fast as possible. I could personally go for a Sonic-themed collectathon or metroidvania.

[E-122-Psi]

3 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Sonic games shouldn't always be about going from Point A to Point B as fast as possible. I could personally go for a Sonic-themed collectathon or metroidvania.

I think it has potential, SA1 demonstrated that, but it didn't quite deliver enough substance in the matter. The Adventure Fields were empty and most just a barren hub world to get you from one level or cutscene to another, while Knuckles' treasure hunting was fun, but more along the realms of a simplistic mini game. It likely wouldn't have held up without a proper Sonic campaign mode there. The immersive explorational feel to the game is definitely there and appreciated, there's just not enough developed about it, while later games tended to take a 'one step forward, two steps backward' approach.

[Skull Leader]

6 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Sonic games shouldn't always be about going from Point A to Point B as fast as possible. I could personally go for a Sonic-themed collectathon or metroidvania.

I think it is possible to add different objectives without sacrificing the things that makes a Sonic game feel like a Sonic game by giving alternate uses to Sonic's (and his friends) special abilities. Think of some of the levels of the N64 game Mischief Makers.

[Sonic Fan J]

So here's some opinions for everyone to have at.

I don't like Sonic as a hero or savior. I prefer him as a jerk with a heart of gold who is an adventurer before all else but stops to help those in need as he meets them.

I don't think any recurring character beyond Sonic is necessary beyond Sonic himself to tell his story.

I think Amy plays as a better Robin to Sonic's Batman than Tails due to the fact that she wants to do everything Sonic does already and just needs a mentor to get her up to speed even if Sonic still typically runs off on his own.

[StaticMania]

3 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

I think Amy plays as a better Robin to Sonic's Batman than Tails due to the fact that she wants to do everything Sonic does already and just needs a mentor to get her up to speed...

Where did this come from?

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

Where did this come from?

Yeah, seriously.

5 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 

I think Amy plays as a better Robin to Sonic's Batman than Tails due to the fact that she wants to do everything Sonic does already and just needs a mentor to get her up to speed even if Sonic still typically runs off on his own.

Or needed anyway.

[Sonic Fan J]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Where did this come from?

 

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Yeah, seriously.

I don't even know how to explain it honestly, but it's mostly stems from feelings of Amy being a Sonic light but in bright and garish colors if you go classic and pre hammer which just made me think of Batman and Robin with Dick Grayson wanting to be a crime fighter in the same vein as Batman and received the mentoring while wearing a bright and garish outfit. Though if I'm sticking with the Batman analogies after Adventure (though arguably implied with Adventure 2) Tails kind of and should have went Nightwing heading out to be his own hero instead of always following Sonic around.

Of course I have this horrible tendency anyway of mashing all of my preferred aspects of the series together in my head as it is so it typically comes out in a jumbled mess as it is.

[Skull Leader]

There is a very particular line from Amy's story in SA1 that is all you need to hear to know why Amy wants the same as Sonic:

"Gee, I'm bored. Every day is the same old thing. Same place, different day".

IMO, Amy has much more in common with Sonic than Tails, as she is driven not just by her affection towards the titular character, but also the need to bring some excitement and adventure into her life... Something I don't recall Tails ever expressing.

It also put things into perspective when one considers that Sonic is living his dream of a life of freedom and adventures because he is not tied to anything, and his ability to run super fast allows him to go wherever he wants in just hours. Amy on the other hand is just a relatively normal city girl with an ordinary life, whose wish of having such a life of adventure goes hand to hand with her dream of earning Sonic's affection and sharing them together.

However, I don't think Amy would need to be made a sidekick like Robin because while she has common ground with Sonic when it comes to both loving adventures and hating boredom, Amy is her very own independent character with unique interests and priorities. Where Robin/Tails had to be mentored by someone with more experience like Batman/Sonic, Amy had to learn on her very own, without help nor mentors, to become capable of watching after herself as well as of those characters in need that she encounters... something that speaks volumes of her independent spirit.

If anything, Amy is more suited to be THE heroine/lead female rather than the sidekick. She is more than glad to help Sonic when he is in need or when he lets her join in on the fun, but also does not mind going on her very own adventures where she helps other characters in what is basically a "lite" version of Sonic's adventures that take place in a smaller, more intimate scale with more personal stakes that complements the larger, grander scale adventures of Sonic and can play an important part in them.

Personally, I would never want for Amy to be tied down as a sidekick as it would come at the expense of her versatility as a character and be limited to live under Sonic's shadow. There's a reason why Amy developed further and explored other facets like being a team leader while Tails stopped growing right after SA2.

However, that being said, I would definitively welcome Amy getting more spotlight, since there are aspects of her characters that provide a nice complement to what Sonic does. For example, imagine a story where Sonic and Amy find a character in distress: while Sonic would go straight at the source of the problem and leave a strong impression on said character with his heroic deeds, it is Amy who would belive in said character and help him/her realize that they are stronger and more brave than they ever imagined. Like DiGi Valentine said in one of his "Who Dat?" videos: Sonic believes in himself while Amy believes in YOU. That alone makes her worth of having a co-protagonist role in some of the stories instead of being sidelined.

[StaticMania]

Sooo, Amy should be Batgirl?

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

 

I don't even know how to explain it honestly, but it's mostly stems from feelings of Amy being a Sonic light but in bright and garish colors if you go classic and pre hammer which just made me think of Batman and Robin with Dick Grayson wanting to be a crime fighter in the same vein as Batman and received the mentoring while wearing a bright and garish outfit.

Oh, okay.

1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Though if I'm sticking with the Batman analogies after Adventure (though arguably implied with Adventure 2) Tails kind of and should have went Nightwing heading out to be his own hero instead of always following Sonic around.

Eeeh, maybe?

Idk, Amy herself seemed to be on the road to being her own heroine for a while.

1 hour ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Of course I have this horrible tendency anyway of mashing all of my preferred aspects of the series together in my head as it is so it typically comes out in a jumbled mess as it is.

Neh, understandable.

35 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

 

IMO, Amy has much more in common with Sonic than Tails, as she is driven not just by her affection towards the titular character, but also the need to bring some excitement and adventure into her life... Something I don't recall Tails ever expressing.

 

Probably because he never needed to.

 

 

 

[Sonic Fan J]

9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Idk, Amy herself seemed to be on the road to being her own heroine for a while.

True, she was. Though with the way this conversation has gone @StaticMania summed it up best

28 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Amy should be Batgirl

 

11 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

49 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

IMO, Amy has much more in common with Sonic than Tails, as she is driven not just by her affection towards the titular character, but also the need to bring some excitement and adventure into her life... Something I don't recall Tails ever expressing.

Probably because he never needed to.

Fun thing about Tails is that if you go by the Japanese manual as inspired as he was by Sonic he came across more terrified and timid of him at first but instantly fell in love with Sonic's plane. Regardless though, he still did his best to follow him around and based on future games managed to hit it off with Sonic. It is kind of weird though how their friendship is never really addressed though and just presumed to exist and have formed over the course of Sonic 2.

53 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

If anything, Amy is more suited to be THE heroine/lead female

To the best of my knowledge she actually is still technically considered the female lead of the series, which is funny in it's own right seeing as how she is the only character in my opinion asides from maybe Metal Sonic who willingly attempts to follow Sonic everywhere with him and his adventures being at the heart of her motivation. Even for as much as Tails cares about Sonic, if he hasn't heard from him for a while he'll lose himself in his other interests such as machines and whatever endeavors led him to meat and befriend Professor Pickle. Amy by contrast wants to be there with Sonic and for Sonic in everything that he does and has just as much enjoyment from the thrill of adventure as he does.

58 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

Personally, I would never want for Amy to be tied down as a sidekick as it would come at the expense of her versatility as a character and be limited to live under Sonic's shadow. There's a reason why Amy developed further and explored other facets like being a team leader while Tails stopped growing right after SA2.

Quite true, but unlike your following example I would love to see Amy at least once have the role of deuteragonist, as I feel it would bring her more the fore. Don't get me wrong though, the personal stories by slowing down just a little bit are every bit as important to Amy's character as well, I just don't think pulling her away from the bigger spectacle is necessary to do that. After all, Sonic is able to connect with Chip over the course of Unleashed and never has to step away from the spectacle to pull that off.

[Multikaris]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:52 AM, Skull Leader said:

I do think Knuckles can have a neat dynamic with Sonic similar to that of Daffy and Bugs since Knuckles seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex when he compares with Sonic, and feel jealous too of all the attention he gets. Just look how Sonic is not only the character after whom the franchise is named after,mbut also has his own sidekick and a girl that loves him more than anyone in the entire world while all Knuckles has is a huge rock and a job that nobody thanks him for doing. There's definitively potential to make Knuckles a character everyone would feel empathy for... but it's all thrown away because of how he is seen as the Piccolo of the series, which is ridiculous because:

* Piccolo was evil and vengeful from the very moment he hatched from the egg, while Knuckles is just a good and honest character who is tricked and taken advantage of by Eggman.

* Piccolo had a transition that started when he took away Gohan and warmed up to the boy, slowly discovering there was good in him. Heck,mGohan is basically his adopted son and that fatherly side of Piccolo is what made him eventually become a god guy. Knuckles just doesn't have that transition nor a close bond with characters like Tails or Amy that would led to him having a motivation tonget involved besides the ME, which I think he needs urgently.

 

Anyway...

Something that I always believe that makes a fictional character be considered a "good character" is not how much lore and backstory the have or how many virtues you can pack into them. No, it is all about how credible and entertaining they can be.

Often I see such character be immediately brushed off completely just because they have some eccentricities that are considered to be annoying , or because they don't live up to more idealized standards, as well as how things like being strong or badass are given more importance, especially among those who grew up with some of the most mainstream anime like DBZ.

When it comes to Sonic, the two character I see to set the standard for what an endearing hero and villain can be are Amy and Eggman,,since these two are the characters I find to be the most credible and entertaining within their respective ends of the moral spectrum.

Hilariously, this actually makes SHADOW the equivalent of Piccolo, not the Vegeta he's often claimed to be.

 

* Shadow was vengeful and wicked from the moment he was unsealed, and even his origins are of poor morality.

* Shadow had a transition that involved him meeting up with Amy and warming up to her. This effectively made him a good guy, along with the likes of the rest of Team Dark.

[Guergy]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

Hilariously, this actually makes SHADOW the equivalent of Piccolo, not the Vegeta he's often claimed to be.

 

* Shadow was vengeful and wicked from the moment he was unsealed, and even his origins are of poor morality.

* Shadow had a transition that involved him meeting up with Amy and warming up to her. This effectively made him a good guy, along with the likes of the rest of Team Dark.

That is interesting. So Knuckles is not the Piccolo of the series? 

[Diogenes]

Here's a thing: the need to portray or perceive Sonic as not just "very fast", but insanely, ridiculously over-the-top fast. I like big, flashy superhero fights as much as anyone, and the moments when characters push past their known limits and do something incredible even for them are great, sure. But when that turns into deep nerd arguments about the characters' "true" power levels and end up declaring characters near-gods operating on a power scale completely beyond the actual conflicts within the series, it just becomes a mess. It warps away any narrative meaning to a character's abilities or actions in favor of "more equals better", pouncing on any exaggeration or underthought event that can be used as "proof" that a character is actually much more powerful than the story says. But stories aren't physical simulations; rarely is any writer going to, for example, calculate exactly how fast a character would have to travel to get from A to B in whatever time period they need to, because that's usually not what's important. Stories are more abstract things, events are more symbolic and metaphorical than real, and whether a character does or does not get there in time has more to do with what suits the story they're trying to tell than any actual physical properties. A good writer will try to keep their stories self-consistent, of course, but mistakes are bound to happen, and finding some flaw or weak point doesn't point to some greater truth of the series. If Sonic ends up going impossibly fast for a joke or because the writers didn't fully think through the implications of his actions that's not an indication of his "true" speed, it's just the flexible reality of fiction.

Plus isn't it just more fun when a character does more with less, rather than constantly holding back their godlike power to not trivialize every conflict?

[Skull Leader]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Here's a thing: the need to portray or perceive Sonic as not just "very fast", but insanely, ridiculously over-the-top fast. I like big, flashy superhero fights as much as anyone, and the moments when characters push past their known limits and do something incredible even for them are great, sure. But when that turns into deep nerd arguments about the characters' "true" power levels and end up declaring characters near-gods operating on a power scale completely beyond the actual conflicts within the series, it just becomes a mess. It warps away any narrative meaning to a character's abilities or actions in favor of "more equals better", pouncing on any exaggeration or underthought event that can be used as "proof" that a character is actually much more powerful than the story says. But stories aren't physical simulations; rarely is any writer going to, for example, calculate exactly how fast a character would have to travel to get from A to B in whatever time period they need to, because that's usually not what's important. Stories are more abstract things, events are more symbolic and metaphorical than real, and whether a character does or does not get there in time has more to do with what suits the story they're trying to tell than any actual physical properties. A good writer will try to keep their stories self-consistent, of course, but mistakes are bound to happen, and finding some flaw or weak point doesn't point to some greater truth of the series. If Sonic ends up going impossibly fast for a joke or because the writers didn't fully think through the implications of his actions that's not an indication of his "true" speed, it's just the flexible reality of fiction.

Plus isn't it just more fun when a character does more with less, rather than constantly holding back their godlike power to not trivialize every conflict?

This is why I never understood the appeal of making characters more and more powerful like a certain shonen franchise does, as I feel that it is much more interesting and exciting to see Sonic display his speed and acrobatics like in the opening of Sonic CD, rather than see him turn golden super saiyan and cheat his way into victory. Not only that, but trying to make every new enemy stronger and stronger results in only Sonic and a handful characters like Shadow being of use, while those who can't turn super nor have superpowers are left behind, which is a shame since Inthink it's those "lesser" characters who have more amusing and creative abilities.

Anyway, don't really inow if this is popular or not, but I feel that the Sonic franchise, despite having cartoony characters designs that evoke shows were there was slapstick, hardly does much with it. I personally think the one game that portrayed this element the best was Sonic the Fighters, both with the wacky animations and sound effects.

[Wraith]

6 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

 

Anyway, don't really inow if this is popular or not, but I feel that the Sonic franchise, despite having cartoony characters designs that evoke shows were there was slapstick, hardly does much with it. I personally think the one game that portrayed this element the best was Sonic the Fighters, both with the wacky animations and sound effects.

This is becoming more and more of a widely held opinion in the face of both the new Sonic Mania stuff and the IDW comics flexing hard in the art department. 

The games are wasting the designs.

[Skull Leader]

39 minutes ago, Wraith said:

This is becoming more and more of a widely held opinion in the face of both the new Sonic Mania stuff and the IDW comics flexing hard in the art department. 

The games are wasting the designs.

This is really sad because, even in the most light-hearted stories, the characters just stand there talking and doing nothing worth justifying those cut-scenes.

In contrast, a franchise like Lupin the Third can have some serious stuff yet the characters behave with such charming and expressive silliness. Closest and most recent thing like you said, are the Mania shorts, in no small part thanks to talented artists like Hesse who are not shy to have fun with the designs as well as the IDW comic.